Where your Heart is .... is that where your politics are?

[lordtiberius]

LT,

You are so over the top, I can't even tease you about it.  (Last time I teased you I got moderated for it.  And you know that I call you a friend.)

You need to to realize that, lacking subtlety, you have the tendency to alienate those you were trying to influence.  Back down a little.  You are not always right and everyone else is not always wrong.  That is absolutism at its worst.

In this situation, I wish you were right and I was wrong.  Praying.  It's all I can really do that is effective.

[fathertime]

 

Would anyone be willing to state, for the record, where their SO is from and how that impacts your point of view? 

 

Since my wife isn't from the region at all, my POV is coming from being a citizen here in the USA.


I see that today one of our drones was taken by the Crimean Self Defense force as it was apparently snooping around the region and was somehow taken over electronically and landed. 


We have no business flying our drones over there.  We have no business wasting the taxpayer's money.  We have no business being front and center in this whole dispute.    I'll be curious to hear what our 'official representatives' like Kerry have to say about this story if they even decide to speak on the matter.


Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

Your position is immoral.  You yourself can't defend it and conceded as much in a separate thread dedicated to your neutrality.  It baffles us why you persist in maintaining it.  Pride perhaps?

[fathertime]

Your position is immoral. You yourself can't defend it and conceded as much in a separate thread dedicated to your neutrality.  It baffles us why you persist in maintaining it.  Pride perhaps?

I can't defend my position?  Who says I can't?  I certainly did not concede anything of the sort.  It baffles 'us'..who is 'us', are you carrying a tick or something?   


My position is NOT immoral.  As a matter of fact, i find it more humane than your position which would result in 10 of thousands of deaths if not ultimately millions.  So why are you for so much death?


Fathertime!

[jone]

FT,

Please source your 'Drones' comment.  I have checked with various repositories and cannot find it.

-jone

[GQBlues]

OY! The fogs of war are widely upon us.

http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/no-us-drones-werent-shot-down-over-crimea

[Slumba]

FT,

Please source your 'Drones' comment.  I have checked with various repositories and cannot find it.

-jone

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-14/us-drone-intercepted-over-crimea-russian-self-defense-forces

AFP reported it, I think that is a French news company.

[GQBlues]

The UAV MQ-5B, aka The Hunter, is a US-made reconnaissance UAV, manufactured by Northrop-Gruman. It was used in Iraqi Freedom, The Kosovo / Balkans war. Units were sold to France and Belgium and are sparingly used by NATO.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/hunter/

The Voice of Russia first reported it (capture), then retracted its report.

...Judging by its identification number, UAV MQ-5B belonged to the 66th American Reconnaissance Brigade, based in Bavaria," Rostec said on its website, which also carried a picture of what it said was the captured drone. The photograph appeared to show an apparently armed drone in flight, rather than debris...."

A spy UAV may be outfitted with a missile weaponry but highly doubt the Hunter can be. It's strictly a spy UAV.

Besides, what will it fire at? There's no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, no? 

The plot thickens...

[jone]

Do you really think the plot thickens?  Or is that just the normal propaganda machine in Russia we have all come to know and love.

I see one of our esteemed members doesn't have the cajones to come back here and admit that he was taken in by said machine. 

Kinda like those Nazi kids walking around Maidan who have now COMPLETELY disappeared.  Amazing. 

If it looks like sh&t, smells like sh&t and tastes like sh&t, it usually is sh&t.  Hopefully you find out before the tasting part.  In the future, FT, don't do the tasting.

[GQBlues]

Do you really think the plot thickens?  Or is that just the normal propaganda machine in Russia we have all come to know and love....

A lot of these crap are mostly propaganda - AND from BOTH sides. MOST of the pasted/quoted silly little-minded articles posted in this, and other threads, relating to this crisis are silly mind-numbing, censored, overly- edited sensationalizing little silly articles to 'sell' them as 'news' to overly-zealous, bored, and small-minded overly idealistic generals wannabes.

The US/Europe are WRONG to be meddling in Ukraine region as much as Russia is WRONG to be IN Ukraine. Russia broke its agreement to respect Ukraine's sovereignty as much as the US broke its agreement by advancing NATO beyond west Berlin.

Ukraine's future and prosperity lies within its peoples, politicians, and its overall populace's mentality and willingness to deviate from doing things for all the wrong reasons.

[jone]

In a related topic, and also somewhat inflated, The Central Russian Bank claims today that it has withdrawn its Western cash holdings, totaling billions of dollars.

In a game of one-upmanship Moscow is trying to stave off the economic sanctions that it knows it will experience by stating through the propaganda machine that the West is a paper tiger and poses no threat.

This, of course, is a very slippery slope.  In all things Russia is doing right now, it is demonstrating that it is sliding down a slippery slope, very quickly.  The end inference is ... war.

By projecting war-like attributes - continuing the lies that only its countrymen believe (well, with some obvious short term gotcha type bluffs) Moscow can march directly into a full fledged conflagration in Ukraine.  The continued posturing that Yanukovych is the rightfully elected President of Ukraine, even though he is situated at Rostov, only serves to further escalate tensions. 

Ultimately, no one knows if Putin has already given the order to march into Eastern Ukraine and beyond.  The West, lacking that knowledge, can only prepare for the worst.  In other words, the current posturing by Moscow requires the West to begin posturing troops along the Polish border, the Baltics and the US fleet just outside of the Kamchatka Peninsula. 

The word that I heard was that the US privately told Russia today that it would honor its obligations under the 1994 Budapest Accord.  Such posturing would obligate the US directly to respond to the placing of Russian troops in Crimea and the changing of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

[fathertime]

I see one of our esteemed members doesn't have the cajones to come back here and admit that he was taken in by said machine. 

 

You made this post less than one hour after I made my post about the drone.  So you think it is reasonable to call cajones into question that quickly?  It so happened I wasn't able to respond THAT rapidly, had it been days it would have been a different story.  Now if you think it takes cajones to admit I was mistaken, then you need to get out and live a little.  If it turns out the story is entirely inaccurate I would have no problem saying that I was mistaken.  Is it that big a deal? 
I found the article on yahoo news:  [size=78%]http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-intercepted-us-drone-over-crimea-arms-180430584.html[/size]


If indeed the story is untrue, that is fine by me.  I don't want our drones, soldiers, or our hypocritical 'representatives' intervening in this region and risking a wider conflict that we will be sucked into. 


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

A lot of these crap are mostly propaganda - AND from BOTH sides. MOST of the pasted/quoted silly little-minded articles posted in this, and other threads, relating to this crisis are silly mind-numbing, censored, overly- edited sensationalizing little silly articles to 'sell' them as 'news' to overly-zealous, bored, and small-minded overly idealistic generals wannabes.

The US/Europe are WRONG to be meddling in Ukraine region as much as Russia is WRONG to be IN Ukraine. Russia broke its agreement to respect Ukraine's sovereignty as much as the US broke its agreement by advancing NATO beyond west Berlin.

Ukraine's future and prosperity lies within its peoples, politicians, and its overall populace's mentality and willingness to deviate from doing things for all the wrong reasons.

So she got raped because she asked for it?

You made this post less than one hour after I made my post about the drone.  So you think it is reasonable to call cajones into question that quickly?  It so happened I wasn't able to respond THAT rapidly, had it been days it would have been a different story.  Now if you think it takes cajones to admit I was mistaken, then you need to get out and live a little.  If it turns out the story is entirely inaccurate I would have no problem saying that I was mistaken.  Is it that big a deal? 
I found the article on yahoo news:  [size=78%]http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-intercepted-us-drone-over-crimea-arms-180430584.html[/size]


If indeed the story is untrue, that is fine by me.  I don't want our drones, soldiers, or our hypocritical 'representatives' intervening in this region and risking a wider conflict that we will be sucked into. 


Fathertime!

Putin is lucky to have such useful spokesmen.

[JayH]

You think its possible to live being surrounded by hatred miasmas as  comments about Russia here?

You choose to take no notice that most of the criticism here is of Putins actions-- and most specifically the invasion of Ukraine. Additionally -there has been a substantial destabilisation program being run out of Russia  to attempt to create the climate(excuse?) for a Russian invasion.Many have been killed in the desperate battle as Ukrainians make a huge attempt to rid themselves of a corrupt government and individuals and to give Ukraine a future. Russia's contribution has been to invade,send thugs responsible for murders,bashings,beatings,robberies,vandalism-you name it-they are there for it.
Chances are you see a different version of those facts--perhaps you should be asking yourself why that is.
The recent behaviour of Putin and Russia--has remarkable parallels with Hitler and Germany leading to WW2--- and many Germans at that time thought the economic miracle Hitler created was all good news--it was a decade later before the regrets started.
My disdain for Putin and his cronies-- of course it will apply to those that blindly rationalise the anti-social behaviour and defend him--it does not make me anti-Russian--the fact is actually the opposite.  I want to see Russia saved before Putin destroys it-- and starts costing lives-- Russian lives as well as Ukrainian.
The simple fact is that Russia has no business to interfere in internal Ukrainian matters-- and absolutely no right to invade any part of Ukraine.

[JayH]

A lot of these crap are mostly propaganda - AND from BOTH sides. MOST of the pasted/quoted silly little-minded articles posted in this, and other threads, relating to this crisis are silly mind-numbing, censored, overly- edited sensationalizing little silly articles to 'sell' them as 'news' to overly-zealous, bored, and small-minded overly idealistic generals wannabes.
There is a major difference--in Ukraine there are many independant news sources operating and sources-- often repeating rumours prematurely as fact--however-in Russia it is state sponsored propaganda placed quite deliberately to create a point of view--there is a fair difference in the intent there.Especially so when that material is being used as a pretext to invade another country.
The US/Europe are WRONG to be meddling in Ukraine region as much as Russia is WRONG to be IN Ukraine. Russia broke its agreement to respect Ukraine's sovereignty as much as the US broke its agreement by advancing NATO beyond west Berlin.
Once again--major difference in invading a country--and in case you did not notice Russia is in breach of many agreements--including those with USA-- and specific agreements with Ukraine.
Ukraine's future and prosperity lies within its peoples, politicians, and its overall populace's mentality and willingness to deviate from doing things for all the wrong reasons.
Ukraine is/was making a desperate attempt to change corruption culture and create new standards--it is those who want to turn the clock back that need to be condemned--not those trying to improve Ukraine.

[lordtiberius]

A lot of these crap are mostly propaganda - AND from BOTH sides. MOST of the pasted/quoted silly little-minded articles posted in this, and other threads, relating to this crisis are silly mind-numbing, censored, overly- edited sensationalizing little silly articles to 'sell' them as 'news' to overly-zealous, bored, and small-minded overly idealistic generals wannabes.
There is a major difference--in Ukraine there are many indepent news sources operating and sources-- often repeating rumours prematurely as fact--however-in Russia it is state sponsored propaganda placed quite deliberately to create a point of view--there is a fair difference in the intent there.Especially so when that material is being used as a pretext to invade another country.
The US/Europe are WRONG to be meddling in Ukraine region as much as Russia is WRONG to be IN Ukraine. Russia broke its agreement to respect Ukraine's sovereignty as much as the US broke its agreement by advancing NATO beyond west Berlin.
Once again--major difference in invading a country--and in case you did not notice Russia is in breach of many agreements--including those with USA-- and specific agreements with Ukraine.
Ukraine's future and prosperity lies within its peoples, politicians, and its overall populace's mentality and willingness to deviate from doing things for all the wrong reasons.
Ukraine is/was making a desperate attempt to change corruption culture and create new standards--it is those who want to turn the clock back that need to be condemned--not those trying to improve Ukraine.

Again, this "both sides" argument and "balance," they did it first and "meddling" argument is balderdash.  How these people can apologize for Putin as he is staking up the bodies baffles even Baghdad Bob.  But hey weed is legal in some states.

[JayH]

As I write there is major attempt in Kharkov to create  more excuses for Russia to invade further-the nonsense of protecting "Russians". 
A gun battle ensuing.
http://tsn.ua/politika/krivava-biynya-v-harkovi-sprovokovana-prorosiyskimi-shovinistami-gubernator-339835.html

Quoting--
"Klitschko said about trying to disrupt the presidential elections in Ukraine According to the politician, what is happening now in the country - the intentions of the new government opponents to destabilize Ukraine is able to implement reforms, but not everyone likes it, and therefore the situation in Ukraine is trying to destabilize. This broadcast live Schuster said the leader hit Vitali Klitschko. "A handful of people do not like what is happening now in Ukraine, because the country in a short period of time may show an effective system of government, effective changes that will lead to higher standards of living. And all destabilization aimed at discrediting and stop the reforms, to be held in Ukraine ", - said Klitschko. According to the leader blow, what happened in Kharkiv and Donetsk - killing people - this tragic event. The politician said that now everything is done to intimidate the inhabitants of the east and south of Ukraine. "Everything that has happened and is happening - inspired by the situation to bring imbalance and chaos in Ukraine", - said Klitschko. Policies expressed the conviction that today some politicians and political forces in this way achieve disruption of early presidential elections and are trying to prevent the settlement of the political and economic situation in the country. "Everything is being done that was not built a new power hierarchy and there was order. When have not yet formed the new government, the territory of Ukraine the invasion began. Hardly anyone believes that this is not involved in the Russian Federation ", - said Klitschko. recall in Kharkiv and Donetsk during clashes and riots killed three people, injured dozens."

[Turboguy]

Steveboy,  Earlier in this thread you made a comment that no one has anything good to say about Putin.  I just came across this and thought you might enjoy it.


http://www.rense.com/general96/putinvobama.html

[lordtiberius]

Steveboy,  Earlier in this thread you made a comment that no one has anything good to say about Putin.  I just came across this and thought you might enjoy it.


http://www.rense.com/general96/putinvobama.html

pretty funny

[Gator]

I thought more about this.  In my 12 years of dating and being married to RW, I have had many, many discussions with them about FSU politics.  These conversations never went very far, usually ending with RW expressing the sentiment "I don't like the situation, but it is Russia - I can do nothing so I accept it." 

I am reminded of John Cleese:

[lordtiberius]

It's the hope . . .

[Noch1]

for what its worth, LT & Jay H, if you over run every thread with massive posts.
You will get less conversation or people even reading it.
You want to educate, speak a few words, attach a link.
 people will talk.

[lordtiberius]

I have read your posts with declining interest as well for they can be summed up in 3 words; Blame America first.

[jone]

Take a break, LT.

You have alienated everyone on here that might be your friend.  You are posting equal, almost, to everyone else put together.  We all know where you stand.  And you can't engage people without making them your enemies.  It is time to back down and let other people have their say.

You have a beautiful bride.  Put as much time into her as you are putting into getting in everyone's face.

[Gator]

for what its worth, LT & Jay H, if you over run every thread with massive posts.
You will get less conversation or people even reading it.
You want to educate, speak a few words, attach a link.
 people will talk.

Good point.  Will LT and JayH listen to you.

I have read your posts with declining interest as well for they can be summed up in 3 words; Blame America first.

You listen about the same as Putin, i. e., you don't listen. 

Everyone interested in this topic has read various news sources.  Almost all agree with you that Russia's actions are wrong.  You should condense your posts to an important, new point relevant to the topic.

There is no need to cut and paste those news articles.   Have you noticed that RWD has been down intermittently.  The site manager says this is due to superfluously long posts.  His message last night said that after he did some trimming, we were still using 99% of our file capacity.  He concluded, " this is as good as it gets.. enough room for me to sleep and hopefully wake up before the server goes down... "