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Author Topic: Did you help to her financially?  (Read 28523 times)

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Offline Jumper

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2006, 04:42:38 PM »
Wild Orchid-
you closely decribe what happened with our situation.
but honestly if i hadnt offered and then insisted to help ,
my wife would have thoght she married a man with his a wallet a little to closer to his heart?
it isnt WHY i offered and insisted,
it's who i am ,
and she knew that about me ..
but did not USE that against me for personal gain or proofs of love  ,
 big diffrence.

  I knew her struggling economic /work situation well, to not even offer ,
 would be a bit weird in our particular situation, (and it mimicks many couples) could she have made it all on her own ? of course
yes and mostly she did so..
was it likely important to her that i would offer, I think anyone rational would assume yes.

KenC, i dont see *afiancee* saying anything at all about g/f support?
 To imply fiancee support is akin to prostitution is a bit out there,
and could be applied to marriage as well.
Neither of our wives work now? if you want to draw some big line in the economic sand , of partially supporting her in the short engagment period by comparison , go for it.
 
danack said
Quote
I ask for many things.¦nbsp; And Ive never felt humilitated.

Good for you!
but to someone with little income , but huge pride, even talking about a nessisity might be humiliating?
 
anyway i'd walk a few kilometers in a those typical RW stillato's before passing much judgements on what or what  would not be humiliating for someone from another culture.

To some, showing your ankles is an embarrasing experience right? ;)
Its doubtful it would bother you.
   
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Offline KenC

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2006, 05:53:57 PM »
Wild Orchid,
I see nothing wrong with how you and your hubby handled things.  You had a needfor additional money and he took care of it. That is how things should work.  Where I draw the line in my opinion, is  when the money is expectedjust to improve the woman's lifestyle.

AJ,
You wrote:
"KenC, i dont see *afiancee* saying anything at all about g/f support?
 To imply fiancee support is akin to prostitution is a bit out there,
and could be applied to marriage as well.
Neither of our wives work now? if you want to draw some big line in the economic sand , of partially supporting her in the short engagment period by comparison , go for it."
Please go back and reread my posts.  I was very specific to say girlfriend and not fiancee or wife.  Still a Fiancee challanged that what I wrote was wrong.  I agree with you when you say that the short time between engagement and marriage is a small detail.  What does frost my nuts, is when Fiancee explains that it is expected by all RW for the AM to improve their lifestyle and if he doesn't he is something less than a man. Let us review some facts:
#1 Not all fsu women are in dire straights financially.  My wife had a good life and never went hungry.  Her parents are not rich, but not poor either.  They are one of the few true middle class Russians.
#2 My wife would have never accepted an allowance of any sort from me. She was always very careful as to the value of the gifts she would accept too. She never wanted to be perceived as a "kept woman" under any circumstance.  This was not only with me, but with all men.  She had dated some very wealthy Russians.
#3 With no actual needfor additional cash why would I send any? I don't agree that it was ever my responsibility to upgrade a gorlfriends lifestyle on a regular basis.  Sure she could take advantage of the places I took her to or the events I shared with her, but to pay a regular allowance is way out of line in my books.
BTW, a "fiancee" is still a girlfriend pending marriage.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Daknack

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2006, 06:02:42 PM »
Good for you!
but to someone with little income , but huge pride, even talking about a nessisity might be humiliating?
 
anyway i'd walk a few kilometers in a those typical RW stillato's before passing much judgements on what or what  would not be humiliating for someone from another culture.

To some, showing your ankles is an embarrasing experience right? ;)
Its doubtful it would bother you.  

As a teacher I know all about "little incomes".  When I was married, if I wanted shorts, or anything I needed, I ran it past my wife.  "Hey honey, Im thinking of picking up some shorts tommorow, what do you think?"  She would either say "ya, that seems like a good idea.", or "No you have plenty of shorts, what about the jean shorts, blah blah."  then a discussion would ensue about where I would buy them, and often what style and the cost.  Frankly I cant think of much that I am embarassed about.  I guess I've given up on embarassment totally.

Offline START2

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2006, 07:25:53 PM »
She shouldnt ASK-you should give it to her without any asking! Otherwise can you call yourself a man? Asking is humiliating!

 I was almost ready to give you some credence but after this remark I think I know you or someone exactly like you. You are a player. You are user. You give yourself to the highest bidder and play men like they're your personal toys. You've been schooled very well. You take and take and never give. There is a name for women like you.

Offline mischief

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2006, 08:30:39 PM »
There is nothing wrong in accepting money or gifts from the person who cares about you and wants to make you happier…  There is nothing wrong in giving money or gifts to the person you feel good with, who makes you happy emotionally or physically…  In fact it is expected from men to do so with their lovers/girlfriends/wives in the FSU… one of the reasons that a man still makes more money and all the macho crap…
The traditional roles such as a man is a provider and a woman is supposed to please her man are changing but slowly… and it’s a common understanding that if a woman makes you happy you are supposed to support her whether… You, guys, with your western mentality might disagree and have hard time understanding… but it’s the way things are…  I still remember the joke my dad made, who is a wonderful husband and father who brought up four wonderful kids… he said I wish I was rich so I could afford a lover… mind you, not a prostitute, just a woman to have an affair with…
So guys, if a woman loves gifts and happily accepts you supporting her it doesn’t mean that she is scamming you or she will be a bad wife…

As to me, I have no problem if my boyfriend/husband supports me financially as well as I’d have no problem supporting my boyfriend/husband if I were wealthy one…

And hey, if you are old but you have money to afford any beauty in the world, who cares if she doesn’t love you but your money… you are happy ‘cos she pleases you all right, she is happy ‘cos she can have her pretty things… enjoy your life and have fun! I’m working on it too… so when I’m old and crappy I can afford young hotty! He he he!



Offline mischief

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2006, 09:10:54 PM »
anyway i'd walk a few kilometers in a those typical RW stillato's before passing much judgements on what or what¦nbsp; would not be humiliating for someone from another culture.
 ¦nbsp;
Good line, AJ ….
Another thing, if you were born in poverty and begging you won’t find it humiliating because you don’t know any better… Lots of people had decent lives with stable salary and when the Soviet Union fell apart most of these people found themselves in poverty, especially vulnerable were teachers, doctors, musicians… they weren’t taught how to survive, they were respected and proud of what they are doing… and now they have to go and beg somebody for help because they have nothing to put on the table…
Daknack , please, don’t even compare your little income and embarrassments with poverty and tragedy of the FSU people!
In Russian we have two words “бедность” and “нищета”… both in English will be poverty but first means like Dacnack’s little income and the second means abject poverty… so there is a good line by Dostoevskij in “Crime and Punishment” : “The poverty is not a vice it is the truth…  but abject poverty is a vice… In poverty we still can keep inborn nobility and decency but in abject poverty nobody can do it …never!  In abject poverty I will be the first who insults myself...”  (sorry for the translation, can’t think that clear at midnight…)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2006, 09:12:53 PM by mischief »

Offline Jumper

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2006, 11:14:33 PM »
Quote
Please go back and reread my posts. ¦nbsp;I was very specific to say girlfriend and not fiancee or wife.

KenC -actually i have noticed your distinction..

I guess thats my misunderstanding,, of the argument even -
as i know you are clearly stating g/f

yet i understand *a fiancee*
to be clearly stating fiancee or wife.not a word about g/f
*shrugs*


at any rate:
i wouldnt want a kept woman or girlfriend,
but would certainly want to help my fiancee , and think there is a big difference between a commitment to marry and going thru the
regulastions and paperwork to do so,
 than simply a girlfriend.

as far as that being a normal expectation by RW,
i think in that culture -
a *kept woman * doesnt have the same stigma  it does  here,
so while some women might never feel right about such a thing,
and view it poorly -
 many others wouldnt think that badly of it!!

regardless of a different social/cultural outlook on "kept g/fs"
i am certain the mentality of many RW after being engaged:
 is to expect the *husband to be* to at least "offer" assistance.

she may except, decline, be offended by the mere thought of such offer, simply act offended by the offer - or a multitude of other responces..
but my belief is in THAT culture it would be viewed by most women as strange if no offer was even made, and likely a guide in thier minds to how generous thier husband to be , will become.

Just like a westerner putting his standards into the mix,
 a RW will just as surely judge her western husbands actions by what she, and perhaps just as importantly her peers,feel is the norm in her culture and experience?
 
will there be all different reactions and thoughts on this? absolutely.

will many RW echo *afiancees* basic sentiments?
In my experince, yes.
of course its only my opinion!
 but i feel a big percentage of RW would find it bizarre if a womans soon to be husband ,
with engagement announced and relocation or wedding planned,
 was not offering her financial support.
Western men may find that a tough thing to swallow,
not sure why. . cultures and expectations differ..

there are exceptions to EVERY generalization:
but -
RW tend to dress better ,certainly sexier, and be more aware of thier apperance,
Western men take that in stride and without choking on it.

if you tell them that generally RW expect more from a man on the economic front, and despite being independent souls , are not nearly so financially.
Many will quickly equate a mans willingness to spend on her-
to how much he loves her,,
 then watch the SAME western men  hack and cough..
and say "it aint so!"
(hey maybe they are right? but its funny how positive steroetypin goes with
 hurrays!!  ,yet anything negative is ,, meet with  well disbelief )


Is it THAT hard to imagine that in a more long term constrained economy,
 a mans willingness to spoil her with what little he has, or what abundence he has,
is valued more ,
and more weight put on it,,
than in a wealthier society/culture?

« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 12:38:07 AM by AJ »
.

Offline Wild Orchid*

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2006, 11:23:34 PM »
Wild Orchid-
you closely decribe what happened with our situation.
but honestly if i hadnt offered and then insisted to help ,
my wife would have thoght she married a man with his a wallet a little to closer to his heart?

I never had to ask my husband for money, he knew what cost was involved in proceedings and he said from the start that he will pay for everything because there was no way I could afford it. But there was never a question that I should quit my job to “prepare” myself. I was waiting for my visa for 18 months. Should I expect my husband to pay for all my needs at this time? I remember posts here or on RWG were guy was saying that straight after they apply for visa his woman stopped working and he paid for everything – travel expenses, food, accommodation etc. She lived without him before in her own country, why all of sudden she can’t? It is common knowledge that the most of us have to stay at home for quite a while in new country, and it is not easy to find a job, why would anyone want to extend this period? Of course if she is some lazy type who likes to sleep till 10 a.m. then may be… But how many of us like that?

Offline wiz

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2006, 01:30:30 AM »
Ste

Hehe,share it with me,what I expect from life?...Very interesting,how you can predict my expectations by my avatar...

Your Avatar gives the impression of :

A Lady of leisure and ...... pleasure!

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2006, 03:46:39 AM »
a Fiancee,
I wish I could explain just how comical your post is to me.  Let me just say that she is the single most headstrong person I have ever met.  Never will she placate me.  She speaks her mind without regard to what anyone else's opinion.

I am curious. When you say:
"She shouldnt ASK-you should give it to her without any asking! Otherwise can you call yourself a man? Asking is humiliating!" Why should I pay for her to be my girlfriend? And what is the justification for her? Is it all just a barter deal then? If it is assumed that the AM should put the RW on an allowance, what is the return to the AM from the RW? If I had to pay for a girlfriend, it would be by the night and then I would kick her out after I was done with her. Please get this straight: MY WIFE WOULD NEVER ACCEPT A CASH PAYMENT AS YOU SUGGEST IS NORMAL. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING SHE WAS EVER TAUGHT AND HER PARENTS WOULD DISOWN HER IF SHE DID. SHE WOULD THINK OF HERSELF AS A PROSTITUTE.
KenC
 

Well,your posts seem to be comical for me too-but I wont tell you anything what might insult you,ok? Because I suppose that the other opinions have a right to exist too-not only mine.
I understand your model of family when everyone has his own account. Its a western model and its very spreaded. I am sure that your wife is very strong one. But I am sure as well that she missed something very important in her life. To separate the accounts,seems to be like living together but not a marriage. IMHO. Woman have to be a woman.

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2006, 03:47:48 AM »
That is the single most stupid thing Ive ever seen posted about anything.

I ask for many things.�  And Ive never felt humilitated.
No comments.

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2006, 03:49:40 AM »
Opinion of this particular woman, not all women in FSU. For a start, I am different. Yes, my husband sent me money, but not to show whatever you imply here but for necessities I couldn’t afford myself – trips to Moscow, medical test, English courses etc. I was very careful with the money and managed to save 1 K. I worked all the time and was doing whatever I had to do after work and I had a son to look after. I had even to postpone my flight to Au because of my work commitments. I don’t see any reason why woman should give up work and depend totally on man. Of course if he is living with her most of the time it is different story. They have to spend their time together, otherwise...  :-\
Who said she should give up her work?..

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2006, 03:56:03 AM »
I was almost ready to give you some credence but after this remark I think I know you or someone exactly like you. You are a player. You are user. You give yourself to the highest bidder and play men like they're your personal toys. You've been schooled very well. You take and take and never give. There is a name for women like you.
No comments.

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2006, 03:59:12 AM »
Your Avatar gives the impression of :

A Lady of leisure and ...... pleasure!
Your posts-their tone-not worthy as old man as you are. No more comments.

Offline BC

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2006, 04:02:44 AM »
I turned all avatars off.. find them distracting.

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2006, 04:05:13 AM »
To sum it up,I got many insults in my adress for an innocent topic I opened-because was curious to heard the opinions. You dont know ANYTHING about me but some of you dared to call me from a player till a girl for a pleasure. Shame on you,guys,shame...Learn the rules of etiquette and learn more about a russian menthality before you marry a woman from here.
But I am glad I saw the normal guys who have a successful marriage and I wish them a lot of peace and happiness  :)

Offline Daknack

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2006, 04:13:31 AM »
We have a saying in the US.  If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck.

Offline START2

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2006, 05:40:49 AM »
This thread did started out innocent enough but as`Ms. Lauper' would would say, "true colors always shine through" . Dak, I'm glad you see it too. There's another saying, 'watch out for the wolf in sheeps clothing." So what is it that a female wolf is called? Hmm. I think one resident psychologist is enough here and even though I was not personally attacked, I prefer not to come here and be degraded for being a male. Oh the joy if only the "no comments" were true.

Offline BC

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2006, 05:53:06 AM »
Hey I didn't pick apart every post here but it seems fiancee was simply stating that it's the man's job to be sensitive enough to make sure his wifes' needs are covered without requiring a 'preety pleese..' I see nothing wrong with that. Women should not have to grovel for grocery money or any other money for that matter.

Is this thread a good example of RW/AM miscommunications heating things up unnecessarily?


Offline KenC

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2006, 06:08:38 AM »
Well,your posts seem to be comical for me too-but I wont tell you anything what might insult you,ok? Because I suppose that the other opinions have a right to exist too-not only mine.
I understand your model of family when everyone has his own account. Its a western model and its very spreaded. I am sure that your wife is very strong one. But I am sure as well that she missed something very important in her life. To separate the accounts,seems to be like living together but not a marriage. IMHO. Woman have to be a woman.
I am afraid that you are wrong, because you still do not understand what I have said. You do seem to confuse things. The financial "rules" change dramatically after marriage. I was addressing what I thought they should be during the courtship phase of a relationship. Once we were married, my wife was an equal partner in our finances. In my mind {and in hers), there is a distinct difference in how financial things are handled when two people are dating, engaged and married. During the courtship phase, we both feel that the man should pay all related expenses for their time together. Gifts are certainly acceptable within reason. The financial responsibility of the man increases after engagement. He should additionally be responsible for any related expenses to their future life together. This of course would include any expenses related to her relocation to his home country. After marriage, the finances become a family issue in which both partners have an equal say in how the family's income is to be spent.

There is a distinct difference of financial responsibility in every level of the relationship in our minds. You seem to want it all up front and that doesn't seem morally correct to us. It isn't my wife that has missed something, it is you. And don't worry about my wife being a woman, she does quite well thank you.
KenC
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 06:18:59 AM by KenC »
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2006, 06:32:31 AM »
Hey I didn't pick apart every post here but it seems fiancee was simply stating that it's the man's job to be sensitive enough to make sure his wifes' needs are covered without requiring a 'preety pleese..' I see nothing wrong with that. Women should not have to grovel for grocery money or any other money for that matter.

Is this thread a good example of RW/AM miscommunications heating things up unnecessarily?


Someone just showed their level and I wont go to comment that...I am well-bred enough ;)

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2006, 06:35:54 AM »
No problem,Ken. I understand you quite well. It your right to find a woman without the financial problems. If she had probably you wouldnt choose her,I dont know. I wish you all the best and regards to your wife.

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2006, 06:37:17 AM »
This thread did started out innocent enough but as`Ms. Lauper' would would say, "true colors always shine through" . Dak, I'm glad you see it too. There's another saying, 'watch out for the wolf in sheeps clothing." So what is it that a female wolf is called? Hmm. I think one resident psychologist is enough here and even though I was not personally attacked, I prefer not to come here and be degraded for being a male. Oh the joy if only the "no comments" were true.
Someoen just showed their level,and I dont go to comment that. I am well-bred enough. So next time all insults I will simply ignore.

Offline mischief

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2006, 06:44:38 AM »
Hey I didn't pick apart every post here but it seems fiancee was simply stating that it's the man's job to be sensitive enough to make sure his wifes' needs are covered without requiring a 'preety pleese..' I see nothing wrong with that. Women should not have to grovel for grocery money or any other money for that matter.

Is this thread a good example of RW/AM miscommunications heating things up unnecessarily?



BC, I'm so glad we have you here!

Offline Zhena

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Re: Did you help to her financially?
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2006, 07:15:31 AM »
To continue my thoughts...
Many men complain about feminists and that its impossible to get along with them. But in the same time,they looking for the same...A business-woman who can bring her own money and dont need any support. Where is a logic? If a woman is successful in the business,this means she has some points in her character which makes her a leader. Otherwise she wont survive in a business world. I dont believe she changes radically when she comes from her work at home. Also I dont believe she will be a good mother-no time for such things. She is not soft exactly,life taught her to be strong and tough. And now lets see what happens when a leader-man becoming to live with a such kind of woman? Thats why,I am sure,only some kind of men are looking for this type of women. Not everyone. Modificated men,I would say.

 

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