Would you get involved with a gal that's "Been here, done this"?

[Killer-B]

Thought I'd toss this out for discussion, since I can't seem to find "an answer" from within...

A gal wrote me off one of my personals - She's attractive, young (22) and from Almaty (area) -

The reason she said she contacted me, was that she said she was very familiar with Colorado (Springs) but did not elaborate any further... Of course this caught my attention, so I wrote back... She sent me a 3 page letter "explaining" her life in CO and the man she had married after just ONE WEEK... (there's one strike for you OWW)

I won't get into all the nuts and bolts just yet, but seems "her husband" (42) was not exactly "Mister Nice guy"... (and yes, there are 3 sides to every story - His, hers, and the truth) -- But her letters just ooze of sincerity and "sweetness"  - I even sent them over to a RW friend of mine to "dissect" (they're all writtin in Cyrillic - which was another red flag for me) - But even my RW friend said she "sounded sincere"...

Fast forward, I then asked her about her "marriage" - and why she didn't learn English if she was "serious" about being here? (Tried to do this without offending her) - Well, I received her 4 page reply this a.m. - She said she was married for 16 months total, but "had to be here" 1 year before being able to enroll at the local Uni for ESL classes (true?) - She reiterated her postion about her "ex" and that they had met through a friend of a friend (another married RW here)... And then asked me what I thought about it all?

Frankly, I don't really know? -

Here's a gal that KNOWS the INS woes and process - Yet she's now back in Almaty - and wanting to give it "another go"? Normailly, (and my gut) is telling me this has GCG written all over it and to  lace up the Nike's and RUN RUN RUN!! - But her letters appear to be sincere - I suppose she's entitled to a "second chance" - But do I want to be the one that's funding THAT crapshoot??

Thoughts?

Suicide?  :hairraising:

Thanks -

KB

PS: Ironically, I am facing this same identical prob with an Asian lady who also contacted me last week - But after a few letters, found out she too was married to a US guy - but she never made the leap to America, and divorced him before she was to go - Claiming he had "psychological problems"  :noidea:- Interesting reflection of those who've blazed the path before me...

[KenC]

Killer,
I think that she may be the most honest woman you could ever come across.  She went back home rather than put on an act for another 8 months to get her green card.  She also didn't pull any DV stunts in order to stay.  From what you wrote, I would say her hubby was a control freak.  There are free local ESL classes offered by the public schools. Another advantage with her is that she already knows the drill of the visas and such as well as having a preview of coming attractions in living in America.  The one thing that you wrote that would concern me, is that she wrote to you first.  Is she husband shopping or shopping for a husband that lives in Colorado Springs? If there is any way to get her ex's email, I would ask him what happened too. The getting married in a week would also be a concern.
KenC

[Daknack]

I agree with KenC 100%.  Dont think shes trying to screw you.

[Killer-B]

The one thing that you wrote that would concern me, is that she wrote to you first. Is she husband shopping or shopping for a husband that lives in Colorado Springs? If there is any way to get her ex's email, I would ask him what happened too.

KenC (and DaKnack) - I'd agree with you about all the "pros" you've listed... Hence my dilemma - for she does "appear" to be very sincere and honest.

To clarify the "husband shopping" thing - This too was a concern of mine, but we had met on a Russian Dating site (truly is "all Russian", not FreePersonals, etc.) Either way, this site has the ability for people to "see" whose been looking at your profile and vice-versa... So we exchanged some glances and it kinda went from there.. She said she saw I was from Colorado - and liked what I wrote and what I stood for.... and so she decided to contact me. How sincere is all that? I dunno - but as I've already mentioned, she does indeed appear to be VERY honest and sincere...

As to finding her ex and talking to him - This was my very, very first thought and inkling - Go straight to "the source" (esp. if he's in my backyard - literally!) But how to ask this without offended her? It's a touchy subject for sure - I know I wouldn't want her yakking with my ex from America!!! 

This is a true conundrum of sorts - for as you've seen and mentioned, there's a lot of upsides to meeting someone that's "been here, done that" - But then the obvious downsides of (maybe) assuming someone else's "baggage".... Or she may indeed be a GCG? As to her being a OWW - It happens every day - and won't comment one way or another - But would suspect that since her married RW friend was "already here" - she probably got sold a pretty good story... I really don't know (yet!)

Thanks-

[KenC]

Killer,
There is almost zero chance of her being a GCG.  She was in the perfect position to take advantage of her ex and didn't. On talking to her ex:I wouldn't put much into anything he said any way, but it would be interesting.  A funny story about that.  I contacted a guy from Frisco that was hot for my wife for over 3 years before I met her.  As he was constantly turned down by her and told that she only looked at him as a friend (Yikes, I hate that), I figured he was long over her.  Well, he dished some dirt on her to me about how she had a difficult personality and blah blah blah.  He suggested that I should pass on her.  He then immediately called her and recommitted his undying love for her.  What a friggen snake.  She blew him off again and as they say, the rest is history.
KenC

[Daknack]

The only possible scam aspect I can even imagine in this case would be a big divorce settlement that would allow her to live like a queen in the Ukraine.

On the possible negative side, its possible that she is unable to be pleased by a normal partner (assuming the guy is normal).  I think we all know people men and women, that simply cant get allong with anyone and are not happy no matter what.  I dont see this as a scam per se, but maybe something to look for.  Overall Id say shes got far more positive going for her than negative at this stage.

In you position Id go for it.  Frankly I think you would be foolish to pass on it if thats the only negative thing you can find.

[Maxx2]

Speculating about the darkside for a moment.

Perhaps after returning she realized what a mistake she made going back? Not every RW knows the one loophole in USCIS law that allows them to stay. Although I bet most do.

Colorado is a tough State for a man to have woman troubles in (See Colorado inspired www.dvmen.org )

Besides this she seems alright to me.

Maxx

[Shadow]

Killer-B,

The positive side is that she has already experienced the downside. This should make her more careful in choosing a partner. You should try to find out if she would do the same one-week proposal again or that she has learned to get to know the guy better before making the step next time. Her answer to this will give you insight in to her perspective and thinking.
At 22 of age she may be willing to get married just to get out of Kazakhstan (wehre Almaty is located) and take life as it comes. Then somewhere between 25 and 30 she will re-evaluate her life and if you are a good guy you will never know that she did.
Read her letters carefully, try to search for things that show her character. Does she complain a lot ? Does she continue to write about her ex even if you are not asking about it ?
Look for the little things hidden in the words.

[ccarten]

I know of a couple in Denver, that basically did the same thing.  She was engaged to a guy in Florida, did not marry him, went back to Ukraine and met another guy from Denver and they have been married for a couple of years now and doing very well. 

Part of the issue was she never met any other Russians/Ukrainaians in Florida for what she has said.  Her and her husband have met many AM/RW couples in Denver.

Clay
Denver, CO

[coco]

The only possible scam aspect I can even imagine in this case would be a big divorce settlement that would allow her to live like a queen in the Ukraine.

On the possible negative side, its possible that she is unable to be pleased by a normal partner (assuming the guy is normal).  I think we all know people men and women, that simply cant get allong with anyone and are not happy no matter what.  I dont see this as a scam per se, but maybe something to look for.  Overall Id say shes got far more positive going for her than negative at this stage.

In you position Id go for it.  Frankly I think you would be foolish to pass on it if thats the only negative thing you can find.

Knack old boy Almaty is in Khazastan..

[Jay Patches]

KenC is right.  I've known several RW/UW who have gone back because the marriage didn't work out.  Some were married to AM, some to RM.  They weren't here for the GC, they could care less about that.  In fact, 1 UW had a big house in SF, and went back to Lviv to live in her 1 room flat with her parents after living here for several years.  The lady I dated for a long time could (can) come to the US as she pleases.  Even though young, single and very attractive, she has been able to get visas without a problem.  Yet, she lives in Kiev in a small apartment outside of the city with her mother.

JP

[RacerX]

This sounds a little messy and I believe some details are missing - was she married for 16 months in the USA?... and how long ago was that?  Does she still have time left on her conditional-GC??

So she married this guy when she was, what, 19 or 20 after knowing him a week and is now looking for someone in CO, or just anywhere in the USA?

I wonder if she might be bringing a lot of baggage along with a heap of immaturity??

I respect the fact you might want to leave out the details, but I dunno, this potential relationship seems full of danger signals.

[Killer-B]

Racer (et al) -

You've raised some good points and valid concerns -

To be honest, I've been sitting on my "reply" to her, kinda waiting to see what the board consensus was gonna be... and must admit that I'm kinda surprised that most all have been "pro" (go for it) so far... And I totally respect that - I'm just still mulling everything over...

Also Racer, I've been wanting to disclose more - and will do so over time... But this process is like peeling an onion - Each layer reveals more and more... but will try to address some of your questions-

It's my understanding that the entire "marriage" was 16 months total - How much of that was "waiting"? and how much was in Colorado? I've yet to determine... But given the fact that she stated she "had to be here 1 year" before entering the Uni's ESL programme - leads me to believe they did a OWW wedding over there, and then she came here - but was for less than a year.

Piggybacking on KenC's comments about her being "the most honest woman" (and frankly, I'm starting to believe this) - She states that she is writing no one else - and has no photos on the site (now) - and only wrote me because I was from Colorado... Point being, (in her mind) she is "familiar" with CO and I can sense in her words she really misses it here... She talks about "Garden of the Gods" and "feeding the deer" and that the mountains here in CO are "red" vs. the mountains in Almaty... So, unless she's really pulling one over on me, she knows her geography and the town well.

She also did make mention of both Russian and American "friends" she has here in the Springs - So, this opens a new door of opportunity for me to "learn" more about her - and try and discover if she is indeed as "sweet" and sincere as she sounds in her letters....

I too am suspicious - Well - Maybe "cautiously optimistic" is a better term at this point in time? I dunno - that's why I posted here - to get some feedback.

As to "age" - Many on here married "20 somethings" with success (and some not-so-successful) - and will take the stance that everyone is different and maturity levels vary from girl to girl - Yes, I've done the math - and she was married at 20 to a then 40 year old... Pushing the limits IMHO - but I'm no different - in fact, the exact same age difference - so LOL who am I to talk

Point being - In my next letter, I'll explore the GC stuff and if there's "time" left on it.... as well her thoughts on being a OWW... Lots of peeling yet to do

Thanks to everyone else - Will comb back through and reply in a bit...

Cheers,

KB

[BillyB]

KB,

Not trying to scare you but check out the price of tickets going to Almaty. If you can't handle it, then don't pursue this for months only to drop her because of the costs involved. The good news is ticket prices are cheaper after summer. Play it out and get to know her. At this stage, don't focus on this one woman just becasue she took her profile down, it's to your benefit to find the right woman, not just any woman. Make sure she's not infatuated with you.

[KenC]

Killer,
I like your "cautiously optimistic" approach. That is a good place to have your mindset at this point. I was a little suspicious about the Colorado Springs connection before, but now that I think about it, why wouldn't she contact someone from a city that she knows? Best of luck to you.
KenC

[Killer-B]

Thanks for the advice BillyB - You know I value your input... But not to worry, this is far from "infatuation"  ... I have several (dozen - ahem) irons in the fire so to speak --  from St. Pete down to Sochi and all points in between - For reasons already mentioned, this one has expressed a little more interest than the others... Kinda like what you mentioned in your T/R in that she answered all your questions and caught all the little details and such... Hence my interest...

I've already research Almaty for another gal (from over a year ago) So am somewhat familiar with all that is needed to travel there and is not a prob - But thanks just the same.

OTHO you've raised a good point that I hadn't considered - and that being her infatuation with either Colorado - or heaven forbid "me"  LOL... But definitely worth factoring into the mix!!

Am crafting my reply to her now - So we'll see what the next letter from her nets!?

Cheers,

KB

[Markus]

I haven't figured out how to do a quote so this is a redneck version.
----------------
Posted by Kb:
She also did make mention of both Russian and American "friends" she has here in the Springs - So, this opens a new door of opportunity for me to "learn" more about her - and try and discover if she is indeed as "sweet" and sincere as she sounds in her letters....
----------------

Kb, Let me commend you first of all for doubting. I think any man pursuing a wife in the FSU should doubt first then confirm later. And, since your situation is on the "grey line", I also commend you for asking your question on this board. It takes a man to step up to the plate and ask honest questions here for the purpose of reading the opinions and then forming an opinion. I have read where men have said, "If a person needs advice from a board, that person is in trouble (paraphrasing)." Of course, I don't believe that statement.  I think asking questions about unknown situations is what this board is all about. But, I do have some thoughts that may not parallel the previous thoughts.

How in the world does she (your gal) have American friends in the Springs if she can't speak English? A smart man would reply, how did you communicate with your (me) lady when she didn't speak English, with me being the OWW. I can tell you if this lady does not speak English, she may know some different people by looks, but she does not have any American friends who don't speak Russian. Let's analyze the English abilities of the lady you speak about and my analogy.

In this situation, we don't know the time that was involved before the "one week" occured, which is actually important. And, we don't know the times corresponding to the intial contact between the little girl, I mean the young lady and the old fart, I mean the man that is pursuing the little girl, I mean the young girl. Pardon my sarcasim, but you seem to have focused upon her OWW status as opposed to her age with respect to the age of the man that she married. The strike, sir, could be attributed to the age difference, a pattern that you are willing to follow. Strongly consider that age difference.

Next, she, according to her words, could not enroll in English because she had to live in Colorado for 1 year. That rule does apply in Texas if a student wants to receive the "resident" tuition versus a higher tuition. But, even if a student is willing to pay the higher cost, the class is still available. Next, ESL classes are non-degree classes in most situations. Any person who wants to enroll in non-credit classes can enroll regardless of "resident" status.  The Universities/Colleges welcome the income. As Kenc already pointed out, ESL classes are available for free.  I chose the college route and was charged the flat rate for any person. What I know from the information that you have provided, your lady is either trying to pull the wool over your eyes with his/her sweet talk or she is mentally lazy. Consider the story about my wife and her English abilitiy and her willingness to learn. Keep in mind, she wasn't a kid, she was 31.

  My wife took 2 English classes in Russia before she arrived to America, one of which I was a guest speaker because I spoke English, and she just finished her 1st ESL class in America, level two because of her placement exam, and she is still studying between semesters. My wife is 32 and there's a vast difference between the studying habits of ladies who are just past 20 versus ladies who are past 30. So, either you have 100% faith in that her English story is correct, which would substantiate everything else she said, or you are leeping into the unknown. But, if a man is not willing to walk into the unknown in this process, he will give up.

As for me, based upon the information you have provided, I would run run run. The good ladies don't contact men; they wait for men to contact them.

Mark

[Killer-B]

Hi Mark-

Thanks for your thoughts...

Don't worry about the "redneck" version - I got your point(s) and were well made... I hear ya...

Now my redneck response (LOL!)

As to posting on here... I've admitted openly that I'm one of the newer kids on the block, and to this board... but not "my search" - Actually, I was talking with an old friend the other night (now married to a RW) and we figured it's been almost 4 years for me now - Time flies!!    But my point is this... I've been on other boards - and even here - and am willing to make myself vulnerable to "critique" from those that have blazed a path in front of me... I'd MUCH rather learn from someone else's mistakes, than a $$$costly$$$ error on my own...

In that same vein, I'm still getting a "feel" for this board - I'm seeing there's the old guard - and the new snot nose "kids" here wanting to play on the same swing (and I'm one of those kids ) -- But think we can all get along and personally, I do welcome what I view as being a wealth of knowledge and experience here on many topics - not just this one...

I know every time I post, I risk a bloody nose (or worse LOL ) but think it's worth it... I'd rather take some abuse here, than out of my wallet - So, that's my back-handed way of saying "thanks" for the compliment about posting on the topic... Frankly until JayP and ccarten and some others chimed in about "how common" this was (siting examples from others) well, I really thought I was flying solo here and entering uncharted waters... Which to a degree I am... but still, IMHO there is no "right" or "wrong" answer here (yet)... Am still peeling peeling peeling!

As to her English and Age - I would concur... and let me add an update of sorts for you and the others... for this little nugget of info just rolled in -

1st correction - He was 43 and she was 19 when they met and married - I do not know the "precursor" time spent getting to know each other... She just told me she was married after 1 week... So, whilst I think I can see why you thought I might be taking a cheap shot at OWW's - I wasn't - Merely stating the facts as she presents them to me....

Secondly, Here in CO - TMK, ESL is "free" to residents.... What that takes, and how far along she was? - basically anything tied into all that and her GC stuff, I have yet to discover Reasons being, I don't want to come off as the KGB for one! And we've simply not exchanged enough mails yet based on time alone... (As a side thought though, you WOULD think her hubby would step up and PAY for ESL - Nyet?)

Speaking of hubby - She now adds that her ex would continue to look and search the "Russian dating sites" - and she did not want to "divide her time"... So, sounds to me, like he wasn't happy with what he "got" and was shopping again.. I dunno - Like I said in the beginning, there's her side, his side, and the truth I'm sure is muddled somewhere there in the middle...

One more thing on language - She's now given me her phone number and says she speaks and hears perfect English, she CAN write English, but does not feel fully comfortable, for she says she doesn't know the grammar rules well enough yet to write the comprehensive letter...  :noidea: (Again, she's either being deathly honest (it DOES make sense) or she's doing one heck of a snow job on me)...

Finally, I've been toying with the idea of putting up (VERY SMALL) bits and pieces of her letter, hoping some of the RW (and Russian speaking men) would chime in to get a sense of her "tone" in her letters... But then a scary thought hit me this afternoon.... Given that the % of men seeking women in the FSU is pretty small - And even LESS of those that actually pull the trigger and do the deed - It dawned on me that "this person" could very well be a member of RWD/RWG and be walking amongst us..... YIKES!  :hairraising: - And Colorado (Springs) ain't exactly a sprawling mecca if you know what I mean --

So, I think I'm just gonna take a step back here for a bit - and see what comes from all this, and will chime in as needed... But need to find out more about this chick and who she was married to - and her "history" here before making any more moves...

Thanks KenC for the props on being "cautious" - and Maxx - Your story scared me straight LOL - I'll NEVER forget it! - (the dark side - I LOVE it!!) - So that too is always in the back of my head - no matter who I'm dealing with across the pond -

Cheers all -

KB

[KenC]

Killer,
One small additional detail I would like to add. Tuition for a foreign student is outrageously expensive.  I know I had checked on some community college courses for Lena and was shocked by the cost. So the 1 year waiting period is understandable. Even though there are alternatives as I mentioned.
KenC

[Markus]

KB,

Your response was excellent. You have a good attitude in viewing this situation. I like that you think she is a really good lady or she's doing a good snow job on you. Knowing those two possibilities is important.

You are aware that this lady could be your partner for life, which is something that the best words in any language can't explain, or she's messing with you. I think it's important for a man to have that "is this really real" attitude. Some guys who think "it's really real" begin to send money for support before and after they have met their lady. After meeting, some money is OK in my opinion, but not via a monthly support arrangement. But, you have the doubt and doubt is really, really good. But managing that doubt is even more important. It's only after the 1st visit that the doubt begins to go away.  And the way I look at this and most any situation is if a man doesn't make the 1st visit, how will he know?  The loss side involves wasted time and money or that time and money could be considered tuition for learning this process. Sometimes it's what was expected and sometimes it's not. Now that's my opinion since my 1st time was more than I expected. As you can see, I'm backing away a bit from run, run, run.

Now, with the ages being 43 and 19, we have more info to look at. That age difference with her being only 19 is flat out disgusting. A 43 year old man and a 19 year old teenager have nothing in common except for sex, the advantage going to the man. Perhaps she was naive in giving into an older man. After all, he was a middle aged man and she was still a TEENAGER. What an idiot man to do such a thing. Now that she's 22, it's a little different, but do you really want to target a young lady like this, and I'm assuming you are in your fourties. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm correct, there's too many other ladies say around 25 and up that are available.

How could a 43 year old man not be satisfied with a 19 year old? It would be sex, sex, sex. I was 43 when I began this process but I chose a 30 year old lady. I know that there's more to a relationship than just sex. But, I would guess a man who targeted such a young lady had major mental problems. The problem may be with the man and not her. But, who knows.

With respect to English, my wife knew how to write English better before speaking English. This lady is just the opposite. If a person is exposed to English, perhaps the speaking part comes first, but perhaps the writing part comes first which is normal.

Call her on the phone and work it from there.

Mark

[jb]

KenC is correct when he mentions the high cost of tutition for non-residents.  The cost for non-resident ESL courses, while high, is still do-able for all but the most destitute.  Since the girl would only be taking the single class, her husband should have been able to afford that luxury for her.  The one year residency requirement would still not have avoided the high non-resident tutition cost unless she had also recieved her GC by that time.  In order to get the local rate, one must also be a Legal Permament Resident of the United States.  This may be a small insight into the reasons why the marriage went south.  The man may have simply been too under funded to afford a foreign wife, and I've been led to believe money problems are the single biggest reason many marriages fail.  Couple money problems with a flighty 19 y.o. and you might see the train wreck that was inevitable.

While on the subject of schooling, I have been asked by two other members here about student visas for their g/f's in lieu of going the traditional K-1 route.  I have been doing a little digging and have uncovered the following information.  Most Universities which accept foreign students, and will issue the I-20 for a student visa, require an English proficiency test, which can be done overseas in her home country.  Once she has that test score in hand she may apply to a school in your area.  Acceptance is usually a pretty easy thing since most schools are always in the market for students.  However, the man thinking of pursuing this method should know, not only do the schools charge an astronomical amount per credit hour for non-resident students, they also demand that the student carry a full course load during the two semisters per year.  No part time students allowed, thank you very much.  The cost for a single year of study can easily exceed $12-15K per year for a normal course load, and that's cash money up front since foreign students do not qualify for student loans.   It is possible to reduce this cost somewhat if the student were going to a 2 year junior college, however most JC's do not issue the I-20, you would have to apply to a full 4 year school in most cases.

I hope that answers some questions for some of the newbies who are looking for clever ways around the USCIS rules and regs.

[Ste]

KenC is correct when he mentions the high cost of tutition for non-residents.  The cost for non-resident ESL courses, while high, is still do-able for all but the most destitute.  Since the girl would only be taking the single class, her husband should have been able to afford that luxury for her.  The one year residency requirement would still not have avoided the high non-resident tutition cost unless she had also recieved her GC by that time.  In order to get the local rate, one must also be a Legal Permament Resident of the United States.  This may be a small insight into the reasons why the marriage went south.  The man may have simply been too under funded to afford a foreign wife, and I've been led to believe money problems are the single biggest reason many marriages fail.  Couple money problems with a flighty 19 y.o. and you might see the train wreck that was inevitable.

While on the subject of schooling, I have been asked by two other members here about student visas for their g/f's in lieu of going the traditional K-1 route.  I have been doing a little digging and have uncovered the following information.  Most Universities which accept foreign students, and will issue the I-20 for a student visa, require an English proficiency test, which can be done overseas in her home country.  Once she has that test score in hand she may apply to a school in your area.  Acceptance is usually a pretty easy thing since most schools are always in the market for students.  However, the man thinking of pursuing this method should know, not only do the schools charge an astronomical amount per credit hour for non-resident students, they also demand that the student carry a full course load during the two semisters per year.  No part time students allowed, thank you very much.  The cost for a single year of study can easily exceed $12-15K per year for a normal course load, and that's cash money up front since foreign students do not qualify for student loans.   It is possible to reduce this cost somewhat if the student were going to a 2 year junior college, however most JC's do not issue the I-20, you would have to apply to a full 4 year school in most cases.

I hope that answers some questions for some of the newbies who are looking for clever ways around the USCIS rules and regs.

I'd like to add to this from a UK perspective since this is exactly how we decided to proceed.

We both decided we needed to live together, a decision niether of us have regretted BTW, since I gave us time to know each other properly and at the very worst gave her an internationally recgnosed degree.........

Anyway we applied for and got the UK Student Visa salient details are as follows:

Course: Has to be full time degree course - two years or more. We have Short term visa for ESL courses but no work allowed and really you shouldreturn home after course, not at end of six-month visa

Fees: We have to pay international fees, around twice home/EU fees. In our case about 12K USD a year. To get home fees you have to have been settled here, ie citizen for three years. As an aside of course, asylum seekers get this for free.....

Visa: Is until end of course, plus four months grace, in our case Oct 2008. She can work on this visa, 20 hrs a week (noone checks tho) and full time during end of term times.

It's ok for us to live together and be upfront about our relationship, so after two years of cohabitation we can apply for Unmarried Partner Visa, which is what we both want, marriage will be whenever we want.....

Ste


 

[KenC]

Just would like to add a few thoughts to what jb was saying as I actually did bring Lena over on a student visa.

The English test (TOFEL) is a requirement unless the person is going to study English. What I did was to enroll her into an 8 week course at Berlitz with a friends family as her sponsor. Berlitz was very helpful in coordinating the I-20.  The visa is multiple entry and is good for as long as the student attends classes.  But Berlitz isn't cheap either.  I paid $2,500 for an 8 week program which works out to the annual $15K jb spoke of.  (And this was 8 years ago) jb is is also correct about the permanent residence being required in order to get the lower tuition rates. Please bare in mind that my experience was prior to 9-11 and that things may have changed.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

 With regards to the schooling: As soon as Elena got her SSN we put a bill in her name and opened a bank account to start the residency documentation required by the schools. We held off on her going to any classes (except for the free ESL at the church and some Adult Ed. classes at the high school) as the out of state tuition is about 3 to 4 times higher than for a resident. She enrolled in an Advanced ESL class (which she just finished and aced!) so I agree that there are reasons for waiting but don't believe that there is any restriction that would prevent her from going right away if they want to pay the higher price.

 jb,
  That's what we found out too about the student visa (except for what KenC mentioned when they study English) as we have put feelers out to Elena's sister to see if she would be interested in coming here to go to college.

Ken

[jb]

I only mentioned it because I'd received a couple of PMs asking what I knew about student visas.  Since I'm such a loser and have nothing better to do than hang with the board, I thought I'd try to earn my keep for a change. 

From the looks of what I learned, a student visa is waaaaay more costly than a traditional K-1.