Sick of it

[Dewed]

So Russians that aren't Russian don't have to move to Russia.. Russia moves to them...   

I think there are Mexicans that really want to be Americans.. we should invade Mexico !.. er I mean, give them the option of joining the US or joining the US while being poised to invade at the drop of a taco if they seem to be undecided, and just to make sure that happens, we'll send in some troops.. er I mean actors.. er I mean uh, rebels yeah thats it.

Doll, I'm sorry . While it was an educational history lesson, nothing in it justifies what is happening.

[Doll]

Dewed, just for you

When Mexico achieved its independence from Spain in 1821, New Mexico became a province of Mexico, and trade was opened with the United States. In the next year, American settlers began arriving in New Mexico via the Santa Fe Trail. In 1846, the Mexican-American War erupted, and U.S. General Stephen W. Kearny captured and occupied Santa Fe without significant Mexican opposition. Two years later, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ceded New Mexico to the United States, and in 1853 the territory was expanded to its present size through the Gadsden Purchase.
The Apache and the Navaho resisted the colonial efforts of the U.S. as they had those of Spain and Mexico, and after three decades of bloodshed, Indian resistance finally ended with the surrender of Geronimo, chief of the Chiricahua Apaches, in 1886. After the suppression of New Mexico's natives, the population of New Mexico expanded considerably, and many came to participate in the ranching boom brought on by the opening of the Santa Fe Railroad in 1879. In 1912, New Mexico was granted statehood.

[JayH]

You might have missed the point that Crimea is now reunified with Russia.

Those who realise there is a viewpoint not espoused by Fox and CNN might want to spend a while reading this: Direct Line with Vladimir Putin. There he explains his motivations most clearly.

As usual it is you who have miissed the point-- Russia invaded the Crimea-- took it by armed force. Only ridiculous pro-Putin true believers of Russian propaganda nonsense seem to think that is ok.
What is laughable is that you and others keep pushing the Kremlin propaganda line that anyone critical of that is repeating  Fox  & CNN-- wake up and stick to paying people to make stupid comments on forums.
Time will tell what prive all Russians will pay for Puins stupidity. He tried to make Ukrainians pay-- and on the weekend it was an overwhelming rejection of Russia  & Putin.

[JayH]

Not really. Only America. Most of Europe has no issues with Russia.

Really? That would be why the sanctions are just warming up !!  Once the impact is felt-- then tell us about it.

I did forget to add-- that Ukrainain girl that pissed you off must have really done a good job ( as well as showed good judgement) to make you so anti Ukrainian !!

[Dewed]

I'm still missing the point... people in the 1800 & 1900s did barbaric and illegal things, so it is OK to do them now?  Is that the point?

[Dewed]

here ya go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_2014_Crimean_crisis

It would seem more countries are against Putins actions than some would have us believe

yes it's wikipedia, but this page is jointly maintained by people worldwide and as such is likely pretty accurate.

Canada and EU have also placed sanctions and that number is likely to grow.

It's not a matter of what you or I think, or what is said on this forum. No forum members here that I'm aware of control a countries entire military force, but it would seem the majority of governments are officially against Putin's actions, The many "abstaining" countries is understandable for numerous reasons, financial dependance , simply don't have the resources to get involved in a conflict or in some cases just plain spite.

[Doll]

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Wikipedia! Most respectful source 

[sleepycat]

I don't think Ukraine is ever going to wrestle Crimea back from Russia. Ukrainian military doesn't have the firepower to take it back by force and the West is not going to go to war over that piece of land.

Realistically the only thing the West can do is to ensure western tourist don't go to Crimea and cruise ships don't dock there to ensure their tourist industry stays dead. Maybe complete embargo against products originating from Crimea.

The Ukrainian government can limit the water supply to Crimea to a minimum to kill their agricultural industry, and maybe deliberately create some electricity blackouts for added fun.

Basically the aim is to ensure Crimea remains on financial life support and to be as much of a drain on the Russian state budget as possible. When Russia fails to deliver on promises made to Crimea, breed and foster discontent amongst the population.

Not such a bad thing to use these tactics to give a big 'FU' to Crimea & Russia.

[Doll]

I don't think Ukraine is ever going to wrestle Crimea back from Russia. Ukrainian military doesn't have the firepower to take it back by force and the West is not going to go to war over that piece of land.

Realistically the only thing the West can do is to ensure western tourist don't go to Crimea and cruise ships don't dock there to ensure their tourist industry stays dead. Maybe complete embargo against products originating from Crimea.

The Ukrainian government can limit the water supply to Crimea to a minimum to kill their agricultural industry, and maybe deliberately create some electricity blackouts for added fun.

Basically the aim is to ensure Crimea remains on financial life support and to be as much of a drain on the Russian state budget as possible. When Russia fails to deliver on promises made to Crimea, breed and foster discontent amongst the population.

Not such a bad thing to use these tactics to give a big 'FU' to Crimea & Russia.

None of the above will ever happen.

[Manny]

Really? That would be why the sanctions are just warming up !!  Once the impact is felt-- then tell us about it.

You really have a scant grasp of events. Probably why you continually post the thoughts of others.

I did forget to add-- that Ukrainain girl that pissed you off must have really done a good job ( as well as showed good judgement) to make you so anti Ukrainian !!

Please refrain from making stuff up.

To have an open mind to Russia's position is not "anti-Ukrainian". However, there are views out there that are quite contrary to what most gleefully write here (or in your case, copy and paste).

On that, Doll is quite right that reading here reads like an anti-Russian, Ukrainian propaganda machine. Even reading this topic, we see some very strange views aimed at all Russians by some odd types from across the pond.

[Doll]

Manny, anti-Ukrainian reading sucks too.

[AkMike]

Not really. Only America. Most of Europe has no issues with Russia.

That's NOT what they say at the UN..

[AkMike]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/02/david-ignatius/historical-claim-shows-why-crimea-matters-russia/
President Barack Obama has been vocal in his opposition to Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin’s military intervention in Ukraine. Focus has shifted from the new government in Kiev, Ukraine’s capital, to Crimea, a region Russian troops seized control of Saturday.
Meanwhile, politicians and pundits are divided over what the United States’ role should be in the conflict. Washington Post columnist David Ignatius criticized Putin’s actions on Face the Nation, saying Ukraine "is not prepared to go backwards" to a Russian regime. He then offered up some context about Crimea’s history.
"Crimea became part of Ukraine only in 1954," he said. "Crimea was historically part of Russia, and (Nikita) Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine in a gesture that mystified some people."
Ignatius was correct in saying that Ukraine has only controlled the Crimean Peninsula since 1954 -- a claim we also heard from U.S. Rep. Mike Roger, R-Mich., on Fox News Sunday. Not up on your Soviet history? We’ll review the facts.
Crimea is an eastern Ukrainian peninsula located on the Black Sea. It’s connected to the rest of the country by a small strip of land. Out of its 2 million residents, about 60 percent identify as Russian. That’s the highest concentration of Russian speakers in Ukraine. Although the territory belongs to Ukraine, Russia stations part of its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol as part of a pre-existing agreement between the two countries.
As Ignatius pointed out, Crimea hasn’t always been part of Ukraine. Here’s a quick rundown of what’s happened in the region since the Ottoman Empire used the peninsula as a hub for slave trade.
 

• 1783: Russia annexed Crimea.
• 1853: The Crimean War began, lasting three years. Russia lost to an alliance of the Ottoman Empire, France, Britain and Sardinia. Crimea remained part of Russia.
• 1917: Crimea briefly became a sovereign state before becoming a base for the White Army of anti-Bolshevik forces in the Russian War.
• 1921: The peninsula, now called the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, became part of the Soviet Union.
• 1942: Nazi Germany took control of Crimea.
• 1944: Joesph Stalin forcibly deported all Muslim Tatars, a group of 300,000 who had lived on the peninsula for centuries, due to members’ alleged cooperation with Germany during World War II. Many returned to Crimea in the 1980s and 1990s.
• 1945: After World War II, the autonomous Soviet republic was dissolved and Crimea became a province of the Soviet Union called the Crimean Oblast.
• 1954: Russian Premier Nikita Khrushchev transferred the Crimean Oblast to Ukraine. It’s often reported that it was a gesture of goodwill from Khrushchev, who had Ukrainian roots.
• 1991: The Soviet Union collapsed. Many expected President Boris Yeltsin, the new president of the Russian Federation, to take Crimea for Russia. But he didn’t bring it up during negotiations with Ukraine.
• 1997: Ukraine and Russia signed a treaty that allowed Russia to keep its fleet in Sevastopol. The agreement’s since been extended, so the fleet is set to remain there until at least 2042.

As for Ignatius’ claim that Khrushchev’s decision to give Crimea to Ukraine in 1954, we found literature to support that. Slate’s Joshua Keating offered up possible reasons for the land transfer, including the 300th anniversary of Ukraine’s merger with tsarist Russia and Khrushchev’s ties to Ukraine.
Though Khrushchev’s gesture had unclear motives, it didn’t seem like a problem for Russia at the time, only garnering a one-sentence write-up in the official Soviet newspaper. It became a bigger issue in the region once the Soviet Union collapsed decades later.
So the story of the Crimean Peninsula is long and complicated, to say the least. And there could be more news to come as war threatens Eastern Europe. Today, Crimea’s residents are divided on the issue of Russia’s military intervention. Generally speaking, ethnic Russians support Russia’s involvement in the region, while Tatars and Ukrainians express pro-Ukrainian sentiments.

 In your timeline you omit the fact that when Krim was given to Ukraine a huge are south of the Sea of Azov, The Kuban region was taken away from Ukraine. Roughly 2X as much land was taken away.

 Krim has been Ukraine for 60 years w/o problems Until Putler decided to steal the gas fields offshore from Krim and in order to make the 'South Stream' gas line to Bulgaria much cheaper.
 Running gas lines overland or in shallow water is much cheaper than deep water pipes.

 No wonder that Putler is worth 71 BILLION USD.  Pretty good wages for a civil servent..

[Doll]

OMG! When Kuban was a part of Ukraine?
I thought I knew the history of the region where I lived for 40 years.
When?
Same "when" about South of Azov.

[AkMike]

 

[Doll]

You remind me  my husband who tried to prove me for HOURS that Poland was one of Soviet Republic of the USSR.
OMG!
I am really sorry for your ignorance))))))))))))

[Doll]

Mike, dear, show me when Kuban was part of Ukraine.
 

[AkMike]

The way it is worded by some members is unacceptable.

I'm still waiting on this answer..

[tfcrew]

 Quote from: AkMike on Today at 09:52:51 AM<blockquote>

No wonder that Putler is worth 71 BILLION USD.  Pretty good wages for a civil servent..

</blockquote>
Wow!.. yesterday he was worth only $51B [nice interest rates for that guy] 
I did a little review of the language fuss in Ukraine.

But first a reminder of how idiotic it has become here in the USA concerning the Latins who refuse to learn the national language.
Everything anymore is posted in English/Spanish -
Bank/Banco
Restrooms/Banos
Airport/Aeropuerto
This is discrimination because these notices are not translated for our Russian, German, Turkish and Swahili people!


Post-Independence (1991-2012)    <blockquote>Regional division of Ukraine; the eastern and southern regions (in blue) are predominantly Russian-speaking.   In post-Soviet Ukraine, Ukrainian remains the only official language in the country; however, in 2012, President Victor Yanukovitch introduced a bill recognizing Russian as a "regional language" that could officially be used in the predominantly Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine, in schools, courts, and government institutions. While the bill was supported by Ukrainians in the eastern and southern regions, the legislation triggered protests in Kiev, where representatives from the opposition party argued that it would further divide the Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking halves of the country and tacitly make Russian an official language.^[11]
In contrast to official government policies, the Russian language is widely used on television^[12] and the circulation of Russian language newspapers and magazines is high all over the country (particularly in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine where Russian is the prevalent language). In Ukraine (and, to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan) there have been attempts to make the titular languages the main languages for the media and the press (this is referred to as derussification in those countries), but these have had limited success.</blockquote> <blockquote>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Ukraine



</blockquote> "Hey girl, move a little! You're oppressing me!"

[Muzh]

It is very relevant. We need to show Russians what the truth is.

I totally disagree with you. We don't need to show the Russians anything.


It would be akin to the Russians showing us what the truth is.




We both have truths. Are mine the same as yours?




Besides Doll, let me use the same disclaimer I've heard on this boards through the years: It is not the Russian people we hate, just their government.

[Muzh]

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Wikipedia! Most respectful source 

Absolutely.


Nothing like the History Channel to get facts straight.

[Muzh]

Quote from: AkMike on Today at 09:52:51 AM<blockquote>
</blockquote>
Wow!.. yesterday he was worth only $51B [nice interest rates for that guy] 
I did a little review of the language fuss in Ukraine.

But first a reminder of how idiotic it has become here in the USA concerning the Latins who refuse to learn the national language.
Everything anymore is posted in English/Spanish -
Bank/Banco
Restrooms/Banos
Airport/Aeropuerto
This is discrimination because these notices are not translated for our Russian, German, Turkish and Swahili people!

Just a point of information.


Big difference between Latins and Latinos.


Bank/mensam
Restrooms/ipsum dolor sit
airport/no such word

[sleepycat]

Quote from: sleepycat on Today at 08:10:22 AM

I don't think Ukraine is ever going to wrestle Crimea back from Russia. Ukrainian military doesn't have the firepower to take it back by force and the West is not going to go to war over that piece of land.

Realistically the only thing the West can do is to ensure western tourist don't go to Crimea and cruise ships don't dock there to ensure their tourist industry stays dead. Maybe complete embargo against products originating from Crimea.

The Ukrainian government can limit the water supply to Crimea to a minimum to kill their agricultural industry, and maybe deliberately create some electricity blackouts for added fun.

Basically the aim is to ensure Crimea remains on financial life support and to be as much of a drain on the Russian state budget as possible. When Russia fails to deliver on promises made to Crimea, breed and foster discontent amongst the population.

Not such a bad thing to use these tactics to give a big 'FU' to Crimea & Russia.

None of the above will ever happen.

Doll, which of the above do you think Russia has the ability to prevent from happening?

[Muzh]

Manny, anti-Ukrainian reading sucks too.

Ooops, you just lost an ally.

[Muzh]

I don't think Ukraine is ever going to wrestle Crimea back from Russia. Ukrainian military doesn't have the firepower to take it back by force and the West is not going to go to war over that piece of land.Realistically the only thing the West can do is to ensure western tourist don't go to Crimea and cruise ships don't dock there to ensure their tourist industry stays dead. Maybe complete embargo against products originating from Crimea.The Ukrainian government can limit the water supply to Crimea to a minimum to kill their agricultural industry, and maybe deliberately create some electricity blackouts for added fun.Basically the aim is to ensure Crimea remains on financial life support and to be as much of a drain on the Russian state budget as possible. When Russia fails to deliver on promises made to Crimea, breed and foster discontent amongst the population.Not such a bad thing to use these tactics to give a big 'FU' to Crimea & Russia.

None of the above will ever happen.

Just like terrorist would never attack the US.


Doll, I hate to tell you that this past few days the UA partisans are showing that they can and may wrestle Krim back from Russia.


The problem is, at what price? Is it worth a long and protracted war, if you want to call it that?


I keep telling my wife to be careful what she asks for.


As we say in Puerto Rico, it is easier to call the devil than to see him come to you.