Odd man on the street perspective on the Ukraine issue

[roykirk]

My wife is nearing the end of her one month trip home to Novosibirsk to visit family and friends.  It was her first trip back in 5 years. 

While she hasn't had time or interest in watching Russian news, she's had a lot of conversations with friends and family about their thoughts on the Ukraine conflict.  Most of it not new as it's the same propaganda that's been going on since the beginning.  One thing several people told her that caught her off guard because she'd never heard it before was how nearly everyone she talked to said that it was only the United States opposing Russia on the Ukraine conflict and that the rest of the world was united with Russia against the U.S.  They went on to say how pleased they were that the European Union was even standing with Russia against the U.S. because this proved that Russia was right.  My wife said she thought of correcting them at first but then realized it was better not to.  She said that there is so much widespread hatred of the United States that it makes her uncomfortable, especially since she has our oldest daughter with her.  She just wants to keep a low profile until they come home next week. 

It was sad to see, she said, how moldable her friends had become, to the point of absurdity. 

[Shadow]

It works both ways. And yes, Europe is not united against Russia, opinions vary.
The countries closes to Russia are mostly reacting in fear of being part of a new Iron Curtain, other countries react differently. In Germany and other countries there is quite some support for Russia.
I managed to get some items in to the mainstream news that opened some eyes regarding the propaganda that the US-side spreads. But will not go in to it here, as I lack the time and energy.

[BillyB]

It's apparent that many Russian citizens don't know about EU's sanctions on a few of Putin's buddies. Some people can view those sanctions as if the EU against Russia. If Russia choose to show the business as usual with the EU such as the sale of two military ships from France to Russia, it can be viewed as if the EU still likes Russia and even a vote of support for Russia's actions in Ukraine.


Western media isn't controlled by the government so we get to see what's happening on both sides. We get to hear about a few sanctions and about Western nations continuing to do business with Russia. My feeling is America is more against Russia than the EU. The EU cares about it's security but it cares more about money. If it weren't for pressure from the US, I think the EU would hand over Ukraine to Russia as long as business remains good.

[Shadow]

It's apparent that many Russian citizens don't know about EU's sanctions on a few of Putin's buddies. Some people can view those sanctions as if the EU against Russia. If Russia choose to show the business as usual with the EU such as the sale of two military ships from France to Russia, it can be viewed as if the EU still likes Russia and even a vote of support for Russia's actions in Ukraine.


Western media isn't controlled by the government so we get to see what's happening on both sides. We get to hear about a few sanctions and about Western nations continuing to do business with Russia. My feeling is America is more against Russia than the EU. The EU cares about it's security but it cares more about money. If it weren't for pressure from the US, I think the EU would hand over Ukraine to Russia as long as business remains good.

All I can say is that you are so naieve.....

[LiveFromUkraine]

Western media isn't controlled by the government so we get to see what's happening on both sides. We get to hear about a few sanctions and about Western nations continuing to do business with Russia. My feeling is America is more against Russia than the EU. The EU cares about it's security but it cares more about money. If it weren't for pressure from the US, I think the EU would hand over Ukraine to Russia as long as business remains good.

    Oh man, you're on fire today.  While we may have it better than Russia (a big if at that), I would hardly say mainstream media show both sides to a story.  You can just look at how the media treated Ron Paul.  Our media is owned by big business which pretty much owns our government. 

[BillyB]

  Our media is owned by big business which pretty much owns our government.

Are they putting guns to journalist's heads? I've seen journalists support Obama one day and criticize Obama the next day. They are free to speak their mind without fear of getting killed or losing their job. Fox news hires liberals and the alphabet networks have hired conservatives in attempts to balance things. Those journalists, like you, have biases and political preferences and they, like you, project those biases and preferences when writing an article or posting on a forum. If you can't see the clear differences in the media here compared to over there, then you're blind.

[GQBlues]

All I can say is that you are so naieve.....

Well, naive isn't exactly how I would describe him. LOL. But I'll keep this PG rated and just remind you where he gets his *intel*...

...Here's an interesting website that explains things.....

http://ukraineinvestigation.com/ukrainian-plane-attack-state-administration-luhansk/ 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Those journalists, like you, have biases and political preferences and they, like you, project those biases and preferences when writing an article or posting on a forum.

Billy, think hard and tell me you don't see anything wrong with what I bolded.  Think man!  Now, how can we get both sides of the story if those bolded letters are true and I do believe them to be true these days.

[ML]

I am not an expert on news reporting in USA; so those with a more direct connection can correct me.

What I do know is that some studies show that a substantial majority of news reporters, editors, etc., are very left leaning.

I remember a few years back, it was revealed by the White House reporters themselves, that something like 90% of them voted for democratic party candidates.

And I am acquainted with a few far left leaning private persons.  At parties, etc., they constantly complain about the USA, even when their party might be in control of presidency, congress, etc.  They bad mouth everything about the USA and laud life in socialist countries.  (They never actually move there though.)

Extrapolating from the above:

The likelihood is that USA news sources are prone to make the USA look very bad in reporting the situation in Ukraine.

Thus, if there is any bias in USA reporting, it would be to show USA, its policies and actions in the worst possible light.

[Shadow]

I am not an expert on news reporting in USA; so those with a more direct connection can correct me.

What I do know is that some studies show that a substantial majority of news reporters, editors, etc., are very left leaning.

I remember a few years back, it was revealed by the White House reporters themselves, that something like 90% of them voted for democratic party candidates.

And I am acquainted with a few far left leaning private persons.  At parties, etc., they constantly complain about the USA, even when their party might be in control of presidency, congress, etc.  They bad mouth everything about the USA and laud life in socialist countries.  (They never actually move there though.)

Extrapolating from the above:

The likelihood is that USA news sources are prone to make the USA look very bad in reporting the situation in Ukraine.

Thus, if there is any bias in USA reporting, it would be to show USA, its policies and actions in the worst possible light.

There are no left American news sources, at least when you look from the European perspective. All are right to extreme right.

[LiveFromUkraine]

There are no left American news sources, at least when you look from the European perspective. All are right to extreme right.

Shadow, what would most Europeans consider Obama?

[Shadow]

Shadow, what would most Europeans consider Obama?

Obama would be considered right wing, at best liberal by some.

[GQBlues]

Wiki gave a nice overview about this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States

I know LATimes is as liberal as you can get. I used to believe NPR was balanced and impartial until I subscribed to it and found out it depends on which political aisle they get their monies from, which was mostly from Democrats or the left leaning constituents.

It is however interesting to note how rapid liberals like Piers Morgan & Keith Olberman got the boot and even Fox News' Glenn Beck had a bit of *cleansing* thing going on..

Here's the Demographic Poll results done found in the Wiki page:

Demographic polling

>>Gallup Polls since 1997 have shown that most Americans do not have confidence in the mass media "to report the news fully, accurately, and fairly". In 2013 a 59% majority reported a perception of media bias, with 46% saying mass media was too liberal and 13% saying it was too conservative. The perception of bias was highest among conservatives. According to the poll, 78% of conservatives think the mass media are biased, as compared with 44% of liberals and 50% of moderates. Only about 36% view mass media reporting as "just about right". According to Gallup, in every year since 2007 more Americans have been distrusting, and every year since 2002 more Americans think the media show liberal bias than conservative bias. <<


I think the more 'sensationalized' the news, the bigger the audience. Thus, the more sponsor and revenue.

[The Natural]

  You can just look at how the media treated Ron Paul.  Our media is owned by big business which pretty much owns our government.

This is a very interesting question. It's very Clear to me that western media is NOT fair and balanced, but how does it work? Paul Craig Roberts have said many times that mainstream media is owned by a very small elite and their different TV-stations, newspaper and such is valued in the billions. But those values would disappear totally if their licence is revoked by the Government. So they carefully weigh their Words when speaking critically of the Powers that be. Any thoughts on that take?

[pokerintherear]

Obama would be considered right wing, at best liberal by some.

This shows how misinformed or uneducated you or your neighbors are. It proves you don't know chit about the US. As an American I would never try to label a leader from your country because I don't live there or really give a hoot. It would be beyond foolish to tell you about the place you live.

[Shadow]

This shows how misinformed or uneducated you or your neighbors are. It proves you don't know chit about the US. As an American I would never try to label a leader from your country because I don't live there or really give a hoot. It would be beyond foolish to tell you about the place you live.

It shows how uneducated you are that you have to reply with an insult.
All i did was answering the question on how Obama is perceived here.
That for Republicans he is near to communism is well known.
Perhaps next time you can either use a more polite form, or keep silent if you are uncapable of that.

[pokerintherear]

Roykirk be thankful your wife can think for herself and draw opinions from what she sees and reads.

I find most free thinking individuals can step foot into the US for the first time with strong negative opinions about the country. After a short time they see things differently. You don't even have to explain things, they see and process opinions without many questions.

[roykirk]

Obama would be considered right wing, at best liberal by some.

Agreed.  The Republicans in the U.S. like to brand him a socialist, when in fact the leader of the Socialist Workers of America Party was quoted as saying they want nothing to do with Obama as they consider him a Republican stooge.  I guess it all depends on perspective.  Here's an interesting chart from the political scientists at politicalcompass.org.  It shows how Obama falls on the political spectrum compared to other world leaders based on stated beliefs, platforms, interviews, etc:

http://politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.png

[Shadow]

Agreed.  The Republicans in the U.S. like to brand him a socialist, when in fact the leader of the Socialist Workers of America Party was quoted as saying they want nothing to do with Obama as they consider him a Republican stooge.  I guess it all depends on perspective.  Here's an interesting chart from the political scientists at politicalcompass.org.  It shows how Obama falls on the political spectrum compared to other world leaders based on stated beliefs, platforms, interviews, etc:

http://politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.png

Vladimir Putin is missing.... but he would also certainly fall in the blue quadrant.

[Gator]

There are no left American news sources, at least when you look from the European perspective. All are right to extreme right.

 

Such says a lot about Europe. 

Regarding the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, and looking only at actions and ignoring rhetoric, Europe is taking the same position as Sweden did in WW II (i. e. act neutral, protect interests, but meanwhile profit from the conflict). 

[pokerintherear]

It shows how uneducated you are that you have to reply with an insult.
All i did was answering the question on how Obama is perceived here.
That for Republicans he is near to communism is well known.
Perhaps next time you can either use a more polite form, or keep silent if you are uncapable of that.

I did not insult you. I assume you feel that way. Its not my problem.

I will say I'm uneducated about many things. I'm not in the least offended.

[Gator]

What I do know is that some studies show that a substantial majority of news reporters, editors, etc., are very left leaning.

Absolutely true!!!!

[pokerintherear]

I draw a conclusion that Liberal and Democrat and Republican and Conservative have opposite meanings on opposite sides of the world.

Lost in Translation

[Gator]

Obama is less a liberal and more anti-business.  He is also the worst President in modern history, even worse than George W.

BTW, for those who don't know it, the business of America is business.   

[Shadow]

Such says a lot about Europe. 

Regarding the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, and looking only at actions and ignoring rhetoric, Europe is taking the same position as Sweden did in WW II (i. e. act neutral, protect interests, but meanwhile profit from the conflict).

And Sweden is considered very leftist in Europe 
But you are very correct that European right wing politicians often are equal or left of Obama.
That is why we pay a lot of taxes that go to welfare, health care and unemployment.
Sometimes I would rather reside in the US, howver with a stable job.
Even if they would regard me a socialist