Odd man on the street perspective on the Ukraine issue

[Shadow]

What's the use of broadcasting RT in Ukraine? The channel's target audience is obviously the English-speaking viewers 

Which is why I was wondering how he was watching it
As for blocking internet media, there is very little use in that as most Ukrainians and Russians are perfectly familiar with IP hiding services.

[ghost of moon goddess]

As far as I know the Ukrainian largest cable providers never transmitted RT, but he could 'enjoy' watching it as the channel is accessible to the internet users in Ukraine

[Anotherkiwi]

'Rain', Russia's opposition news channel 

That's news to me.    I wasn't aware there was any such thing! 

[AkMike]

That's news to me.    I wasn't aware there was any such thing! 

There are many but they have been relocated to gulags deep in Siberia.

[Shadow]

There are many but they have been relocated to gulags deep in Siberia.

As if that would save them.

[Muzh]

    Oh man, you're on fire today.  While we may have it better than Russia (a big if at that), I would hardly say mainstream media show both sides to a story.  You can just look at how the media treated Ron Paul.  Our media is owned by big business which pretty much owns our government.

    Oh Man, you need two.


Mainstream media shows subjects that cater to MAIN street, aka the average Joe. For guys like you, you need to go to the underground to find stuff that you like.


Like has no bearing with the truth, but what the hell.


So Captain Obvious, the mainstream media is definitely controlled by big corporations because big corporations rely on them to sell their products. DUH! I mean, that was DUH, wasn't it? Like a pop up in the infield.


Still, Captain Obvious, notice that the average Joe in MAIN Street USA, smells the bullshevism and calls it. All you have to do is read some of these pages. DUH!!! Again.


Now Russia, that is a different ball of wax. I believe their noses have been desensitized to the bullshevism.


Oh boy. DUH!!

[Muzh]

It works both ways. And yes, Europe is not united against Russia, opinions vary.
The countries closes to Russia are mostly reacting in fear of being part of a new Iron Curtain, other countries react differently. In Germany and other countries there is quite some support for Russia.
I managed to get some items in to the mainstream news that opened some eyes regarding the propaganda that the US-side spreads. But will not go in to it here, as I lack the time and energy.

Are you old enough to remember the Wehrmacht goose-stepping all over the low countries?


No, I don't think so.


Go join Captain Obvious in his observations.

[Muzh]

I am not an expert on news reporting in USA; so those with a more direct connection can correct me.

What I do know is that some studies show that a substantial majority of news reporters, editors, etc., are very left leaning.

I remember a few years back, it was revealed by the White House reporters themselves, that something like 90% of them voted for democratic party candidates.

And I am acquainted with a few far left leaning private persons.  At parties, etc., they constantly complain about the USA, even when their party might be in control of presidency, congress, etc.  They bad mouth everything about the USA and laud life in socialist countries.  (They never actually move there though.)

Extrapolating from the above:

The likelihood is that USA news sources are prone to make the USA look very bad in reporting the situation in Ukraine.

Thus, if there is any bias in USA reporting, it would be to show USA, its policies and actions in the worst possible light.

Actually Murdoch commissioned the study.


After he got the results, he hired the non-left leaning reporters to form Faux News. That's why they were so small.

[Muzh]

This shows how misinformed or uneducated you or your neighbors are. It proves you don't know chit about the US. As an American I would never try to label a leader from your country because I don't live there or really give a hoot. It would be beyond foolish to tell you about the place you live.

Heh, here's another peach.


Are you going to claim Obama is a [gasp!] socialist? Because if you do, then you are claiming that Ronny Raygun was also a socialist. Worse, based on that, Richard Nixon was a communist.


Damn, I should go back to working on my 996.

[Muzh]

Agreed.  The Republicans in the U.S. like to brand him a socialist, when in fact the leader of the Socialist Workers of America Party was quoted as saying they want nothing to do with Obama as they consider him a Republican stooge.  I guess it all depends on perspective.  Here's an interesting chart from the political scientists at politicalcompass.org.  It shows how Obama falls on the political spectrum compared to other world leaders based on stated beliefs, platforms, interviews, etc:

http://politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.png

[Muzh]

Such says a lot about Europe. 

Regarding the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, and looking only at actions and ignoring rhetoric, Europe is taking the same position as Sweden did in WW II (i. e. act neutral, protect interests, but meanwhile profit from the conflict).

I have a very good friend that told me the majority of news reporting in Europe is from Faux News. That should explain the statement.
So your emoticons are out of place.

[Shadow]

Are you old enough to remember the Wehrmacht goose-stepping all over the low countries?


No, I don't think so.


Go join Captain Obvious in his observations.

Are you educated enough to know who stopped the Wehrmacht? And the asnwer is not USA.

[sleepycat]

Are you educated enough to know who stopped the Wehrmacht? And the asnwer is not USA.

Probably the counter productive meddling in military operations by Hitler.
The dude should have just concentrated on the political side of being a dictator and left the military aspects of the war to capable German field marshals like Manstein and Rommel.

[roykirk]

My wife and daughter returned yesterday after nearly a month in Novosibirsk.  On this topic she says she was quite sad about the reception she got from some longtime friends she met up with.  Many were upset (and a few disgusted she said) that she still continued to live in the United States given recent events in Ukraine.  Others peppered her with questions about whether she supported Russia on the Ukraine issue.  When she told them she was neutral and open to both sides of the story she was given the "cold shoulder" and people refused to speak to her or return her calls for the rest of her trip.  As I said in my original post in this thread, I will be surprised if she ever travels back to Russia.  She feels as if it's no longer her home and that everyone has turned against her simply because of where she lives.   

[Anotherkiwi]

That's pretty sad, roykirk.  Although you could probably expect it to happen somewhere, given the posts on this forum over the last few months, it has still taken me slightly by surprise.  All power to the Russian media - they obviously do a superb snow job on their own people. 

[Shadow]

My wife and daughter returned yesterday after nearly a month in Novosibirsk.  On this topic she says she was quite sad about the reception she got from some longtime friends she met up with.  Many were upset (and a few disgusted she said) that she still continued to live in the United States given recent events in Ukraine.  Others peppered her with questions about whether she supported Russia on the Ukraine issue.  When she told them she was neutral and open to both sides of the story she was given the "cold shoulder" and people refused to speak to her or return her calls for the rest of her trip.  As I said in my original post in this thread, I will be surprised if she ever travels back to Russia.  She feels as if it's no longer her home and that everyone has turned against her simply because of where she lives.   

MrsShadow is getting the same attitude online from those who know she is in the EU, with added the impression that a large part of the population is gay. As we can show how we are actively providing truthful information to people here, that turns to respect that we dare to fight the propaganda.

For those who know the opinions I posten, be aware that I consider channels like Russia Today as tabloid, and would nevr trust the information there without research. Our sources are the people living in Ukraine, both West and East.
When you got access to those, you notice that the Western media are doing as much of a snow job as the Russian ones, and maybe even more.
Anything negative is simply ignored in Wester media, yet the slightest thing to put a negative on the separatists or Russia is presented as prime news. Understand that while there is no news, it means bad news for Kiev.

[ghost of moon goddess]

In Russia, the Anti-American sentiment keeps growing and has reached a record high – 71 percent of Russians have a 'generally unfavorable' or 'very unfavorable' view of the US. The EU being involved in the Ukraine crisis, its ratings (along with Ukraine's) have dropped to a record low, making Ukraine the second most hostile  (30 per cent) after the US (69 per cent), according to the poll conducted in May 2014 by Levada Center. The poll says 77 percent of Russians have a favorable opinion of China, the country is ranked (40 per cent) second as the closest Russia's ally. Traditionally, Belarus tops the list of Russia's best friends.

(http://www.levada.ru/category/tegi/ukraina
05.06.2014 Отношение россиян к другим странам

[roykirk]

Part of the problem for my wife is that she's not a political animal and simply has no interest in engaging in political debates.  When she'd meet up with these friends who she hadn't seen in years, she wanted to talk about their families, their kids, and what had been going on in their lives.  Her friends, however, were more concerned about whether she supported Russia or not on the Ukraine issue.  When she refused to take sides or swear her immediate allegiance to Russia, that was it.  She said people are thoroughly convinced that Ukrainian Nazis are going door to door looking for Russians and when they find them, are pulling women and children out in to the street and executing them.  So given that belief, people find it unfathomable that she wouldn't automatically support the Russian position. 

More to Ghost's point, she said she's also noticed a very significant change in how Russians view America.  When she was growing up, she was vaguely aware that the attitude was always, "we love Americans, but we dislike/hate America."  For a large segment of the population, she said, that attitude seems to have changed to, "we hate America, and we also hate Americans." 

[GQBlues]

In Russia, the Anti-American sentiment keeps growing and has reached a record high – 71 percent of Russians have a 'generally unfavorable' or 'very unfavorable' view of the US. The EU being involved in the Ukraine crisis, its ratings (along with Ukraine's) have dropped to a record low, making Ukraine the second most hostile  (30 per cent) after the US (69 per cent), according to the poll conducted in May 2014 by Levada Center. The poll says 77 percent of Russians have a favorable opinion of China, the country is ranked (40 per cent) second as the closest Russia's ally. Traditionally, Belarus tops the list of Russia's best friends.

(http://www.levada.ru/category/tegi/ukraina
05.06.2014 Отношение россиян к другим странам

That's pretty predictable in light of the USA/EU undermining Ukraine's politics to suit their needs. Isn't this the very same scrutiny GWB faced during his presidency? Didn't our population supposedly elected someone to change all this? LOL.

Surprise! I'm not saying our president is 'evil'. I'm saying our people elected an idiot who is definitely way in over his silly head. You can see that in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, etc....with or without 'Joe'

[Shadow]

The prejudice towards America and the EU, at least as far as the people ar concerned can be taken away only by showing that the Russian media are not alwys correct, just as the Western media are not always giving the right information.
Staying out of the politics is one tactic, but another is trying to research and educate the people.

As much as I fight some people here, on ´the other side´ people might consider me equally bad.
Which is why I take a break now and then, as it is not easy to act as rope on which two sides ar pulling.

[Faux Pas]

That's pretty predictable in light of the USA/EU undermining Ukraine's politics to suit their needs. Isn't this the very same scrutiny GWB faced during his presidency? Didn't our population supposedly elected someone to change all this? LOL.

Surprise! I'm not saying our president is 'evil'. I'm saying our people elected an idiot who is definitely way in over his silly head. You can see that in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, etc....with or without 'Joe'

Whoaaa, slippery slope there my bruddah. Her quote was on the Russian opinion of America and Ukraine being unfavorable. Your response is what the US/EU did to undermine Ukrainian  politics and the obvious incompetence of the U.S. Prez? Have you not noticed what Russia has done to undermine Ukrainian politics? Whatever Nuland conspiracy theories are floating out there, on one hand you're saying Obama couldn't pour piss out of a boot and on the other stating him the architect of Maiden? You can't have it both ways. Regardless, technically Maiden and whatever the U.S./EU involvement isn't any of Russia's business. Russia's open invasion of Crimea and now dark invasion of Eastern Ukraine easily triumphs whatever the US/EU conspiracy theories are out there and may or may not have happened.

Certainly Putin has great concern from an economic and ego standpoint. Perhaps he doesn't want to see an "Arab Spring" type uprising on his doorstep that threatens his own position. But, at the end of the day Ukraine is none of his business. His moves on Ukraine are only the result of a weak brain dead U.S. President. Because he knew he could move on Ukraine without any reprisal from the West. He would have done it in his first term if he thought he could get away with it. He couldn't then, he can now. Stop whitewashing Putin's complicity.

[Shadow]

Whoaaa, slippery slope there my bruddah. Her quote was on the Russian opinion of America and Ukraine being unfavorable. Your response is what the US/EU did to undermine Ukrainian  politics and the obvious incompetence of the U.S. Prez? Have you not noticed what Russia has done to undermine Ukrainian politics? Whatever Nuland conspiracy theories are floating out there, on one hand you're saying Obama couldn't pour piss out of a boot and on the other stating him the architect of Maiden? You can't have it both ways. Regardless, technically Maiden and whatever the U.S./EU involvement isn't any of Russia's business. Russia's open invasion of Crimea and now dark invasion of Eastern Ukraine easily triumphs whatever the US/EU conspiracy theories are out there and may or may not have happened.

Certainly Putin has great concern from an economic and ego standpoint. Perhaps he doesn't want to see an "Arab Spring" type uprising on his doorstep that threatens his own position. But, at the end of the day Ukraine is none of his business. His moves on Ukraine are only the result of a weak brain dead U.S. President. Because he knew he could move on Ukraine without any reprisal from the West. He would have done it in his first term if he thought he could get away with it. He couldn't then, he can now. Stop whitewashing Putin's complicity.

Open invasion of Crimea? Did I miss something?

[Faux Pas]

Open invasion of Crimea? Did I miss something?

You can call it free and fair elections if you want. Makes me no difference what you call it. I suppose you are use to voting under the threat of a gun barrel. It was an invasion.

[Shadow]

You can call it free and fair elections if you want. Makes me no difference what you call it. I suppose you are use to voting under the threat of a gun barrel. It was an invasion.

What gun barrel? The observers did not notice any irregularities.

[Faux Pas]

What gun barrel? The observers did not notice any irregularities.

You're in denial Shadow. Crimea was an invasion. The observers you speak of, were those the ones in the Russian tanks or the 97% that voted in favor of joining Russia?