Trip Report, Moscow April 30-May 7. Finally, I got it right

[Louie]

Hey Groov excellent report, if I may throw my nickel's worth in, how about the Mexican Rivera? its always overlooked, but it is absolutely beautiful, some of the nicer places are, Cabo San Lucas, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Cozumel,Cancun, just to name a few, and a Russian citizen only needs a passport and a round trip ticket to go there. Also one time me and a Canadian girlfriend went to Rosarito Beach, and were able to drive in and out at Tijuana and I only had to show my Drivers Lic. they didn't even ask my girlfriend for any ID ( Blond hair green eyes)

[PeeWee]

Groove,

nice report and good luck in the future. now comes the hard part (and you thought meeting a good one was hard). as you know these type of relationships are ultra delicate. not to mention that Moscow is a hard place to leave for them. all one can do is give it his best shot and let the chips fall where they may. i wish you luck.

on a side note, ive been to the place where Irina works when i was looking for furniture, or at least i think its the one if its out past metro Rechnoy Vakzal headed to SVOII, not to far from the Ashan/Ikea shopping center. big place for sure.

as for Egypt, there was a recent attack in a smaller seaside resort (Dahab) about 40 miles south of Sharm a month or two ago as far as that goes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006052301666.html

for some perspective about it from Russians, my g/f said to me when i mentioned it (bombings in Egypt) before we went to Hurghada, "are you crazy, you have more of chance being blown up riding the metro everyday"  .

another funny thing, if you can call it that, is when the resorts do get bombed everybody leaves as fast as they can from the area, everybody that is except the Russians . maybe theyre just more used to it or maybe theyve spent their money and by god theyre going to party and have a good time no matter what. Russians do love to party  .

were thinking of Prague or Amsterdam for our next trip, im leaning towards Prague, great city from what i hear especially this time of year. peace out

Chivo

Is Amsterdam one of those locations where a tourist via is possible for a Russian lady?

One of my choices was Amsterdam but for some reason I had the idea that Amsterdam was same as UK, Ireland, and Germany, etc. Impossible to get the visa approved.

Peewee

[Jumper]

not impossible peewee..

the shengrin(sp?) visa for western european countries  may require a few hoops for a RW to jump thru,
(normally a pre paid deal thru a travel agency for a "group tour" that she doesnt have to stay on "tour" with..  *wink* )
 but it certainly isnt unobtainable by any means..
we had few troubles.
*shrugs*

[Michelangelo]

My girl got a tourist visa to Spain in January and to France in May...without any problem.  She is from Ukraine.  I think EU countries are easing up on visa requirements.

[wiz]

Groove

I have mention before the Greek islands, because is much easier to get a visa.

There are charter flights from Moscow direct to the islands and of course the tour operator is arranging for the Visa. The Greek Embassy is isuing Visas for that specific period.

I know that because I am meeting a Woman from Moscow in the Greek Island of Kos next Wednsday and she had no problem getting the Shegen Visa.

[dorogoyroberto]

I've heard Sharm is really nice, but didn't Al Qaeda attack one of the resorts there last year?

Groove,

Sharm was lovely in February; going back there in November...

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[PeeWee]

not impossible peewee..

the shengrin(sp?) visa for western european countries  may require a few hoops for a RW to jump thru,
(normally a pre paid deal thru a travel agency for a "group tour" that she doesnt have to stay on "tour" with..  *wink* )
 but it certainly isnt unobtainable by any means..
we had few troubles.
*shrugs*

Thanks, AJ. I have just a few cities that I can fly too, for free, that coinside with cities located in the countries that a RW can obtain a visa for. You might say that I'm being cheap but anytime that I can fly to most places in the world, at no cost to me, and my hotel is comped for as many nights as I wish to stay, as long as it is a Sheraton, Westin, or one of the Starwood hotels,( all 5 star rated) then you best believe that is where the two of us are going to end up going.

Amsterdam (maybe it sounds like), as is Moscow, Bejing, Hong Kong, Bangkok, and a few others all fall into that group of feebies for me. I am excited that I might be able to now add Amsterdam to my list. Hong Kong is the odds on favorite at the moment but I fear the humidity at that time of year. Little peewee will be traveling with me and he has business to attend to in Hong Kong. Besides he is starting to get a bit proficient with his Chinese.



Peewee

[groovlstk]

Thanks for all the good wishes, guys. I'm headed back to Moscow on June 27 and Irina and I will spend a few days there before heading off to a resort in Antalya for a week. Richard, Chivo, anyone else in Moscow give me a yell if you'd like to grab a beer when I arrive.

Things are progressing well, I wake up at 5AM to phone her during her lunch hour, then we chat before I leave for the gym. I phone her on my lunch hour while she's preparing dinner or walking Chuck. Finally, she insists I phone her when I arrive home from work each day. It's 2AM her time and I hate waking her up, but if I miss a day she gives me the business the next morning. By the way, can anyone recommend cheap phone cards for calling Moscow? I'm using a card that has good rates to Ukraine, but it will be drained soon.

Irina insists that I stay at her apartment when I arrive, but there's a potential problem. Her dad lives with her, and he doesn't approve of our relationship. Irina explained to me that at one time he was a prominent banker in Moscow, but fell to alcoholism. After his wife divorced him, he moved in with Irina. He met another woman and started to put his life back together, but one night she was attacked and brutally murdered. The crime remains unsolved and, understandably, he's a very bitter man. He holds a menial day job but spends all of his free time drinking. As much as I'd like to make peace with the guy and explain to him that I have only the best of intentions, I'd also like to avoid the possibility of having an empty vodka bottle powdered against my skull while I'm sleeping. Irina insists he'll be passed out when we arrive at her flat each evening and that he'll leave for work each morning before we awake. We'll see how this works out... I'm not worried about things from Irina's side, she's told me many times that she wants her family's blessing but that she's her own woman and makes her own decisions. I'm amazed at how strong and independent she is, while at the same time so tender and vulnerable.

I've never dated a girl who required so much maintenance, but I'm enjoying every minute of it. She's very jealous, and in a way it's comical. Once I had to cut a call short to run to a meeting while at work, and she asked me who I was meeting with. When I told her I was meeting with two women, she got really upset. I thought to myself, "if only she knew..." because in my mind there's not a woman who can compete with her. But probably it's best that she doesn't know this.

Before I departed, Irina gave me an interesting gift. It came in an elaborate velvet box, imprinted with Chinese characters. Inside was a bottle containing an amber liquid. I didn't examine it closely until I arrived home, when I discovered a snake and lizard floating around inside, along with some other things I can't identify. Customs officials might have been interested in it, I think.

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/gift.jpg

I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do with it. Do I drink it or gargle with it? Dab a bit on my wrists and neck before I leave for work each day? Actually I think the last thing in the world I want to do is open it. Here are some excerpts from the terribly translated paper I found inside the velvet box:

"If any white substance sediment blistering of the skin dropping from snake body occur to present product, all these are caused by protein and do not affect the quality of the present product."

"Usage and dosage: each time at any time in the morning, at noon or night, take in 30ml to 50ml. Applicable persons: middle and old aged persons. Preservation period: 24 months."

Hmm, I know we have an age difference of 16 years, maybe she's trying to embalm me?

[Sohkay]

groov,
You're travelling half way around the world, in what is perhaps the most important pursuit of your life. Does it make sense to lodge yourself with an alcoholic who doesn't approve of you?

Why even take the chance of something like that screwing up something so potentially wonderful?

[KenC]

groove,
Get used to the jealousy thing. It doesn't matter if the women you do business with are 300 lb beasts either. A lot of RW set their territorial boundaries and will protect them with life and limb. Get an apartment. You girl is trying to be a little frugal. Where was the Dad when you visited before? I remember you had your moments with Chuck on the last trip. Come to think of it, Chuck is another good reason to get an apartment. The bottle is Russian Viagra!
KenC

[PeeWee]

Thanks for all the good wishes, guys. I'm headed back to Moscow on June 27 and Irina and I will spend a few days there before heading off to a resort in Antalya for a week. Richard, Chivo, anyone else in Moscow give me a yell if you'd like to grab a beer when I arrive.

Things are progressing well, I wake up at 5AM to phone her during her lunch hour, then we chat before I leave for the gym. I phone her on my lunch hour while she's preparing dinner or walking Chuck. Finally, she insists I phone her when I arrive home from work each day. It's 2AM her time and I hate waking her up, but if I miss a day she gives me the business the next morning. By the way, can anyone recommend cheap phone cards for calling Moscow? I'm using a card that has good rates to Ukraine, but it will be drained soon.

Irina insists that I stay at her apartment when I arrive, but there's a potential problem. Her dad lives with her, and he doesn't approve of our relationship. Irina explained to me that at one time he was a prominent banker in Moscow, but fell to alcoholism. After his wife divorced him, he moved in with Irina. He met another woman and started to put his life back together, but one night she was attacked and brutally murdered. The crime remains unsolved and, understandably, he's a very bitter man. He holds a menial day job but spends all of his free time drinking. As much as I'd like to make peace with the guy and explain to him that I have only the best of intentions, I'd also like to avoid the possibility of having an empty vodka bottle powdered against my skull while I'm sleeping. Irina insists he'll be passed out when we arrive at her flat each evening and that he'll leave for work each morning before we awake. We'll see how this works out... I'm not worried about things from Irina's side, she's told me many times that she wants her family's blessing but that she's her own woman and makes her own decisions. I'm amazed at how strong and independent she is, while at the same time so tender and vulnerable.

I've never dated a girl who required so much maintenance, but I'm enjoying every minute of it. She's very jealous, and in a way it's comical. Once I had to cut a call short to run to a meeting while at work, and she asked me who I was meeting with. When I told her I was meeting with two women, she got really upset. I thought to myself, "if only she knew..." because in my mind there's not a woman who can compete with her. But probably it's best that she doesn't know this.

Before I departed, Irina gave me an interesting gift. It came in an elaborate velvet box, imprinted with Chinese characters. Inside was a bottle containing an amber liquid. I didn't examine it closely until I arrived home, when I discovered a snake and lizard floating around inside, along with some other things I can't identify. Customs officials might have been interested in it, I think.

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/gift.jpg

I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do with it. Do I drink it or gargle with it? Dab a bit on my wrists and neck before I leave for work each day? Actually I think the last thing in the world I want to do is open it. Here are some excerpts from the terribly translated paper I found inside the velvet box:

"If any white substance sediment blistering of the skin dropping from snake body occur to present product, all these are caused by protein and do not affect the quality of the present product."

"Usage and dosage: each time at any time in the morning, at noon or night, take in 30ml to 50ml. Applicable persons: middle and old aged persons. Preservation period: 24 months."

Hmm, I know we have an age difference of 16 years, maybe she's trying to embalm me?

Groover, you still be da man. I thought all RW were jealous? I hear it most often in conversations when mention of another woman occurs. You seem to be moving quickly with this relationship. Is this a normal pacing for you? I'm not moving at the pace you seem to be. I call Elena about twice each week and we talk for about 1 hour or so. Sometimes three times each week. We exchange emails everyday.

I am happy that you are building this relationship with Irina. I am looking forward to your next TR and you might just sleep with on eye open while in Moscow.

Peewee

[wendaaaal]

By the way, can anyone recommend cheap phone cards for calling Moscow? I'm using a card that has good rates to Ukraine, but it will be drained soon.

Groov, I've been real happy with MasterCall:  http://http://www.mcctelco.com/Welcome.asp
only about 2 cents/min. to Moscow landlines, only about 8 or 9 cents to mobiles. No b.s. fees, easy to deal with.

I vote with KenC, maybe it's better to get an apartment, papa sounds a little unpredictable. Great reports! Best of luck, Wendell in Austin

[PeeWee]

By the way, can anyone recommend cheap phone cards for calling Moscow? I'm using a card that has good rates to Ukraine, but it will be drained soon.

Groov, I've been real happy with MasterCall:  http://http://www.mcctelco.com/Welcome.asp
only about 2 cents/min. to Moscow landlines, only about 8 or 9 cents to mobiles. No b.s. fees, easy to deal with.

I vote with KenC, maybe it's better to get an apartment, papa sounds a little unpredictable. Great reports! Best of luck, Wendell in Austin

Not only papa but what about Chuckie? The two of them might conspire to do damage to the Groover. I would opt for the hotel but spend the evening with dad and a bottle of wodka.

Peewee

Peewee

[corp]

Groove, forgive me for being late to the party here but I am really glad to hear you have found some good fortune in your search.

She sounds like a real winner and you are not half bad yourself (considering your zip code

I found the Euromama card at LDpost.com very cheap in fact, it is like ten times cheaper to call moscow than Ukraine, always good connection too.

[Noleman]

Hey Goove,

I have been using a phone card called Globus World, 5 cents per minute when using my cell.

Noleman

[Noleman]

Hey Groove,

Sorry for the mispell, my bad!

Noleman

[Rattlehead]

Groove,
Someone said somewhere earlier in this post (the thought of looking for it is killing me at this hour), something about how you did it the right way not going through an agency to meet her.  But it sounds like you got really lucky meeting her on ICQ (I didn't realize ICQ was still in use!).  Did you use ICQ intending to meet a RW?  How realistic is it for someone to attempt to meet a RW without the use of an agency?  There's also the thing you said about her not being used to the nature of these courtships.  Do you think it would help to avoid some of the common mistakes and pitfalls in one's trips to Russia if one made his first trip to Russia an extended trip solely to learn the language and culture?  (Of course I wouldn't complain if I met a great RW along the way! lol!).  Does anyone have any info about teaching English in Russia?

[groovlstk]

Groove,
Someone said somewhere earlier in this post (the thought of looking for it is killing me at this hour), something about how you did it the right way not going through an agency to meet her.  But it sounds like you got really lucky meeting her on ICQ (I didn't realize ICQ was still in use!).  Did you use ICQ intending to meet a RW?  How realistic is it for someone to attempt to meet a RW without the use of an agency?  There's also the thing you said about her not being used to the nature of these courtships.  Do you think it would help to avoid some of the common mistakes and pitfalls in one's trips to Russia if one made his first trip to Russia an extended trip solely to learn the language and culture?  (Of course I wouldn't complain if I met a great RW along the way! lol!).  Does anyone have any info about teaching English in Russia?

Rattlehead,

It's absolutely possible to bypass the agency route, and in my opinion it's the smartest way to go. Using an agency exposes you to many pitfalls, from crooked owners, fake letters, pro daters, women who are desperate to escape a hard life, and GCGs. That's not to say that bypassing an agency will remove all these risks, far from it. I've met some very decent, sincere women through even semi-crooked agencies, and a good number of men here met their wives through agencies. It all depends on your comfort level in a foreign country; agencies can make all the arrangements for your stay, provide interpreters, etc., sort of one-stop shopping. You can also argue that an agency can expedite your search by putting you in direct contact with like-minded women. That said, once you venture outside agencies, you'll find that many single FSU women would rather die than use an agency. The reasons I've been given are usually something along the lines of a "friend of a friend's sister met an American man through an agency and they married and he beat her and used her." I also think there's a small element of humiliation involved, and some girls have a similar disdain for agencies that many Western people had a few years ago in regards to internet dating, until it became hip.

And yes, I believe there's a different courtship dynamic when meeting agency girls vs. meeting others. Years ago, I spent a week in Prague with an agency girl. I liked her immensely but didn't propose to her. I planned to visit her in Ukraine in a few months, meet her family, and then propose. To make a long story short, things (thankfully) didn't work out. Afterwards, I asked the agency owner if I'd made a mistake by not proposing. She answered with a resounding YES, lecturing me that all girls expected a proposal after the first meeting, and to not do so indicated that I wasn't truly serious. I didn't argue with her, but keep in mind I hadn't been exposed to the collective wisdom of this board and I had yet to make my first trip to an FSU country. I was incredibly foolish and naive, and I count myself lucky that I didn't get burned too badly.

ICQ still works, I originally installed it to communicate with one of my former gfs. One of the advantages it has is that you can search for women in specific countries and cities, by age group and with or without photos. Judging from the internet cafes I've visited in Ukraine and Russia, it's by far the most popular chat program. Give it a try, you'll find a good number of women who can communicate in English. Funny enough, my fiancee told me that after our first meeting she explained to all her single friends about how we met and they were in a mad rush to sign up

If you can make an extended trip to Russia, by all means do so. The more time you spend in the field, the more comfortable you'll feel. It's up to you if you don't want to write to women before you arrive, but at the very least it might be useful to have someone who can show you around and help prevent you from being fleeced.

Good luck and if you want more specifics, feel free to shoot me a PM.

[wiz]

Rattlehead,

It's absolutely possible to bypass the agency route, and in my opinion it's the smartest way to go. Using an agency exposes you to many pitfalls, from crooked owners, fake letters, pro daters, women who are desperate to escape a hard life, and GCGs. That's not to say that bypassing an agency will remove all these risks, far from it. I've met some very decent, sincere women through even semi-crooked agencies, and a good number of men here met their wives through agencies. It all depends on your comfort level in a foreign country; agencies can make all the arrangements for your stay, provide interpreters, etc., sort of one-stop shopping. You can also argue that an agency can expedite your search by putting you in direct contact with like-minded women. That said, once you venture outside agencies, you'll find that many single FSU women would rather die than use an agency. The reasons I've been given are usually something along the lines of a "friend of a friend's sister met an American man through an agency and they married and he beat her and used her." I also think there's a small element of humiliation involved, and some girls have a similar disdain for agencies that many Western people had a few years ago in regards to internet dating, until it became hip.

And yes, I believe there's a different courtship dynamic when meeting agency girls vs. meeting others. Years ago, I spent a week in Prague with an agency girl. I liked her immensely but didn't propose to her. I planned to visit her in Ukraine in a few months, meet her family, and then propose. To make a long story short, things (thankfully) didn't work out. Afterwards, I asked the agency owner if I'd made a mistake by not proposing. She answered with a resounding YES, lecturing me that all girls expected a proposal after the first meeting, and to not do so indicated that I wasn't truly serious. I didn't argue with her, but keep in mind I hadn't been exposed to the collective wisdom of this board and I had yet to make my first trip to an FSU country. I was incredibly foolish and naive, and I count myself lucky that I didn't get burned too badly.

ICQ still works, I originally installed it to communicate with one of my former gfs. One of the advantages it has is that you can search for women in specific countries and cities, by age group and with or without photos. Judging from the internet cafes I've visited in Ukraine and Russia, it's by far the most popular chat program. Give it a try, you'll find a good number of women who can communicate in English. Funny enough, my fiancee told me that after our first meeting she explained to all her single friends about how we met and they were in a mad rush to sign up

If you can make an extended trip to Russia, by all means do so. The more time you spend in the field, the more comfortable you'll feel. It's up to you if you don't want to write to women before you arrive, but at the very least it might be useful to have someone who can show you around and help prevent you from being fleeced.

Good luck and if you want more specifics, feel free to shoot me a PM.

Groov

Excellent advise as always........

Did that stupid owner really expect you to propose to the woman after few days in prague?
They obviously think we are stupid or very desperate to find a woman to shagg! Pathetic......

Dare I aske where did you find the time to write this post??????

When I need you to edit my posts you were not around 

When is Iryna coming to N.Y?

[groovlstk]

Groov

Excellent advise as always........

Did that stupid owner really expect you to propose to the woman after few days in prague?
They obviously think we are stupid or very desperate to find a woman to shagg! Pathetic......

Dare I aske where did you find the time to write this post??????

When I need you to edit my posts you were not around 

When is Iryna coming to N.Y?

Wiz, I've been too busy reading your excellent TR to find time to post much

I don't know if someone up above was looking out for me, but I've been saved a few times along this rocky path. I wrote above that I spent a week in Prague, but that's not really true. My trip to meet the woman I was writing to occurred in early December of 2003, I was scheduled to spend 8 days with her in Prague. The day before my flight, we had a blizzard that dumped about 3 feet of snow on the NY area. I re-scheduled my flight for 2 days later, meanwhile the girl had arrived and was waiting for me at the Le Palaise Hotel. When I arrived at the airport the Continental ticket agent issued me new boarding passes but not new tickets, even though the route was now different. I was unable to board my flight, and Continental's customer service would do nothing for me because my tickets were booked through OnePass, Continental's frequent flyer program. To add insult to injury, my baggage was now enroute to the UK. When I arrived home, I phoned OnePass and they re-booked me on a bizarre route, Newark-Atlanta-Amsterdam-Prague, for the next evening. (Needless to say that was my last flight on Continental. I'll rollerblade to my destination rather than get on a Continental airplane.)

To make a long story short, I only spent 3 1/2 days with this woman, and as foolish and naive as I was, I realized it wasn't enough time to make any long-term decisions.

And yes, the agency owner was a pariah. I later found out that she ripped me off by charging me double on several gifts that I sent to the woman I met in Prague, and couldn't help but brag about it to her staff afterwards. I got a crash course in how ugly this business is, and as much as it hurt at the time it was well worth it.

Irina should get her visa in about six months, I received my NOA1 (Notice of Action) on Friday, so the slow wheels of immigration have started to turn

[wiz]

Irina should get her visa in about six months, I received my NOA1 (Notice of Action) on Friday, so the slow wheels of immigration have started to turn

Oh dear

They do move fast......6 months?......ha ha ha

Thanks for the info....... Yes I wil never fly Continental too......long story in Miami

Good luck anyway.

[DKMM]

I am bypassing the agency altogether as well.  I leave for Moscow in 2 days, with a few email leads and a local terp with some connections...I might end up spending the entire trip as a tourist but we'll see how it goes.  You guys told me to just get on the plane so here I go.

Lookout for my trip report when I return.

[wiz]

I am bypassing the agency altogether as well.  I leave for Moscow in 2 days, with a few email leads and a local terp with some connections...I might end up spending the entire trip as a tourist but we'll see how it goes.  You guys told me to just get on the plane so here I go.

Lookout for my trip report when I return.

Have a good holiday

and if you get lucky to meet the right woman....so much better.

[catzenmouse]

I am bypassing the agency altogether as well.  I leave for Moscow in 2 days, with a few email leads and a local terp with some connections...I might end up spending the entire trip as a tourist but we'll see how it goes.  You guys told me to just get on the plane so here I go.

Lookout for my trip report when I return.

DKMN,

 Best of luck on your journey! I look forward to hear your impressions of Russia upon your return. Might be a good idea to check with someone like chivo here who can give you some inside info on Moscow and places to meet ladies.

Ken

[Rattlehead]

Groove,
I'll respond to your post tomorrow or Saturday.  I just wanted to let you know that.  I have to get to sleep now as I'm actually getting up early to register for and attend a Russian 101 course tomorrow.  I'll let you know how it went when I message you.

Rat