Putin is Ruining Russia

[AC]

TheBullRDR,

                   Yep,where were you when our civilians were getting blitzed by the Germans ?

You see when one of your mouthy countrymen comes on here and calls us "Gutless wonders" because we don't charge into Ukraine all guns blazing,as if you're better than us,then the comparison about the USA's reluctance to get involved in World War 11 is a fair comparison.

Does that mean we're better or more courageous fighters than you ?..nope....but you're no better than us either...and the point was made that you weren't so great without our help in Vietnam...despite the obvious feeling of superiority displayed by the original  USA "Gutless Wonders " poster.

Of course it's easy for a USA poster married to a woman from Ukraine to sit on his arse and belittle other countries for not going to war and rescue his wife's country,losing untold thousands of men in the process..maybe he should get off his backside and go and fight in Ukraine for her honour..unless of course he's a "Gutless wonder " himself.

I think it's about time to drop this, you're beating a dead horse.  Take it up with calmissile maybe in a PM.  I've acknowledged that British are fine soldiers, some of the best in the World.  I was joking you a bit when I said "Neville Chamberlain".  Politics is separate from the fighting men of a country.  Not joking when I said you Europeans constantly get in messes and expect the USA to bail you out.  Kosovo being the most recent situation, and now Ukraine.

I will say it again, the USA is on a completely different continent then you -- we are NOT obligated in my opinion to go to war over there.  The reason the Germans were kicking your asses in the first two years or so of WWII is because of the treachery you pulled off against them in WWI.  Speaking of propaganda the British propaganda against the Germans in the run up to WWI was pretty atrocious.  So you've changed and now you criticize the USA for the wars in Iraq.  Doesn't take a genius to see what you did over in the ME prior to that (but of course Muzh thinks he "educated" because he mentioned it).  Doesn't take a genius to know that the British Empire enslaved people all over the World at the height of their power.  So now you're enlightened and the USA is the bad guy.  Like I said, you, the Poles and the Germans or Italians can handle Ukraine for all I care.

[AC]

Gentlemen,

I believe that the original post was tongue-in-cheek jest.

I doubt it.  Let's have Chelseaboy answer that.

[Chelseaboy]

AC,

        Who's saying the USA is the bad guy ?

Well,apart from Manny and his conspiracy theories about the Maidan protests being funded by your country.

[AC]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but come on!  In one breath you say that the US needs the brits to "cover our asses" and in the very next sentence you ask where we were when you were getting the shit kicked out of you by Germany.  If it wasn't for the US, you're the one that was going down in flames.  We bailed your asses out not once, but twice.  Yes, you have been allies, yes, you fought beside us.  What I don't get is why you think that after all of that, you can sit here and say that you have bailed us out of anything?  I don't see cemeteries full of brave British soldiers buried on American soil.  I have never heard tell of 100's of British airmen racing across oceans to join our air force to defend us.  It's some of that typical mentality I see so often.  With one breath you scream how horrible the US is and we should keep our noses out of other peoples' business, and in the next breath, as soon as your ass is in a jam, you scream, where's the US!?!?!? 

Point being, you can't say you're so much better and stronger, then cry that we didn't get into WWII sooner to save you.

You're dealing with typical British arrogance, I wouldn't get too worked up about it.  They were in the White House begging us to save their arses in WWI and even though US public opinion was overwhelmingly in favor of the Germans (World War 1 mind you) Woodrow Wilson made some sort of deal with them.

FDR made another deal with the beggars during WWII.  Personally I think we fought on the wrong side of the war in WWII.  We should have supported the Germans in their fight against the Russian/Soviets.  If the Germans would have won the war at least the roads in Russia would be smooth as glass and the Police and bureaucrats would be honest.

[Chelseaboy]

AC,

    I take it none of your relatives are Jews ?

Seeing as you think the USA should have fought alongside the Nazis.

I've heard it all on here now..seriously.

And you've got the front to talk about British arrogance.

[lordtiberius]

I doubt it.  Let's have Chelseaboy answer that.

Fiesty aren't we?

[AC]

AC,

    I take it none of your relatives are Jews ?

Seeing as you think the USA should have fought alongside the Nazis.

I've heard it all on here now..seriously.

And you've got the front to talk about British arrogance.

That's a very dark side to WWII which likely cost Germany the war.  Hitler was in the process of being assasinated, if the USA had made a deal with Rommel I'm sure it would have included eliminating both Hitler and his "solution".  No deal was made with Rommel.  Why?  Arrogance on the part of both the British and the Americans?  Don't be so fast to jump to conclusions, that activity had to be stopped.  It was a "tongue in cheek" response, however all decisions as to who to support in a war, result in loss of life. 

You can ask any older Russian with a sense of humor and the joke is, who was worse, Hitler or Stalin and the answer is Stalin.  He took more Russian and Ukrainian lives then Hitler ever could have, and Hitler was going to be assasinated by his own Generals one way or another, provided the Germans were winning.

No Iron Curtain?  No Soviet gulags?  Hard to know which outcome would have been better.  WWII was an epic battle of fascists against communisits, and the communists actually won.  Then later they became fascists under Putin, and here we are -- another dictator upsetting peace and borders in Europe.



edit to add:  Apparently your guy Winston Churchill believed the Soviets to be more dangerous than the Germans, and allegedly quipped at the end of WWII:  "We have slaughtered the wrong pig".

[jone]

You're dealing with typical British arrogance, I wouldn't get too worked up about it.  They were in the White House begging us to save their arses in WWI and even though US public opinion was overwhelmingly in favor of the Germans (World War 1 mind you) Woodrow Wilson made some sort of deal with them.

FDR made another deal with the beggars during WWII.  Personally I think we fought on the wrong side of the war in WWII.  We should have supported the Germans in their fight against the Russian/Soviets.  If the Germans would have won the war at least the roads in Russia would be smooth as glass and the Police and bureaucrats would be honest.

Step away from the keyboard!

[AC]

Step away from the keyboard!

I see nobody has a sense of humor this evening.

 

[TheBullRDR]

I see nobody has a sense of humor this evening.

 

Guess not.  even I saw that one was a joke.

[lordtiberius]

I see nobody has a sense of humor this evening.

 

Hilarious

[jone]

Let's drop the infighting. The real enemy is Putin. I lived in Russia and I get it. I understand him better than most foreigners. I have some very deep, long friendships (over 20 years) with Russians and it has put a severe strain on some of these relastionhips and destroyed others due to Russia's aggression.


As for volunteering it is a very difficult road to walk at the moment in the US. Doing that would potentially get you lumped in the terrorist running to help out ISIS and have the US government all over you.


I spoke about doing this with my wife today and the reaction was very mixed. I know I could be an asset. I have the kind of experience they need. Downside is my Ukrainian isn't that great though my Russian is excellent. So a challenge for almost all English speakers that want to volunteer would be the language barrier. In wartime this is an area where it will get you killed or you could kill someone else if you don't have effective communication.


At the crux of the issue is would I be willing to put my life on the line to stand up for the principles I believe in? Hell yea! I have done so already and would do so in the future. I strongly believe in this fight as I know how evil Putin is. I am not some gung-ho grunt with a myopic view of the world thinking the US can do now wrong. Damn if we haven't so many things wrong because of our lame-a$$ President Obam. I am very well educated and lived in several countries other than the US. I wouldn't rush into this fight but I won't back away from it either. Sadly the more days pass the less effective diplomacy will be.


The US and a European coalition need to start indicating they will very effectively arm the Ukrainians and also train them. I would be more than willing to train them first hand. All I am willing to say on a public forum is I've done more than my share behind the scenes where I can legally to help and if more people were like my wife the Russians would be crushed based on willpower and sacrifice like hers.


I hate war but sometimes it is unavoidable. Sadly we are closer to the line each day this conflict drags on. The rest of Europe is likely to get sucked into as well. As for Merkel, she exhibits Stockholm Syndrome in some ways. Being under Soviet control during her childhood predisposes her to the Russian even though she hated being under their thumb. I have seen this at work in a lot of other people who even though they hated the rule of Russia while under it, still end up aligning with it later.

I hope you're wrong about Merkel.  I see her as the one person capable of resolving this issue without a tremendous amount of bloodshed.

[Taz]

I hope you're wrong about Merkel.  I see her as the one person capable of resolving this issue without a tremendous amount of bloodshed.

I don't think I am wrong about Merkel though I wish I was. Some interesting pieces if you read German. I used to be fluent in German but not as much any more. Anyway she was known as the "Chameleon". Actual she is what could be described as a "Wendenhals" in German more accurately but it may be an act. Think of a Wendenhals as someone who now is very vocally against what the represented before... With Merkel I think it just appears that way.


http://www.chronik-berlin.de/news/cameleon.htm


http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Nichts-verheimlicht-nicht-alles-erzaehlt-article10631536.html


As luck would have it, I just stumbled across this article from the NY Times. I just glanced through it but it seems to have a similar take as I do but from a German's perspective.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/opinion/bittner-eastern-germans-soft-spot-for-russia.html


And another about German's possible alignment with Russia.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/opinion/why-germans-love-russia.html


While I don't like the NY Times much I do think they got it right here.

[AC]

I hope you're wrong about Merkel.  I see her as the one person capable of resolving this issue without a tremendous amount of bloodshed.

That likely won't be the outcome.  Putin may not be a Stalin but only because of International Banking and the internet.  Yet he's clearly preparing for a total invasion of Ukraine and it will be a surprise if he doesn't go through with it.  He's also got two more years to build up his military before there is likely a Republican President who might want to actually stand up to him.  Does anyone really see the EU or Nato doing anything against an invasion of Ukraine?  What, more bloviating by the EU and Obama?

[deccie]

That likely won't be the outcome.  Putin may not be a Stalin but only because of International Banking and the internet.  Yet he's clearly preparing for a total invasion of Ukraine and it will be a surprise if he doesn't go through with it.  He's also got two more years to build up his military before there is likely a Republican President who might want to actually stand up to him.  Does anyone really see the EU or Nato doing anything against an invasion of Ukraine?  What, more bloviating by the EU and Obama?

That is not the picture we have of things here in Russia AC. In fact the only justification I could see for such an action by Putin would be as a distraction from the current economic situation. There is no stomach for a full blown invasion of Ukraine here as far as I can tell. Banks are VERY precarious here now. There was until the central bank ordered a change a 100% spread difference between buy and sell prices on Euro and USD.

What we have seen is Russians queuing up at the post office trying to send money to friends and family in Ukraine. Knowing full well it probably won't get there and will be stolen along the way.

[AC]

I don't think I am wrong about Merkel though I wish I was. Some interesting pieces if you read German. I used to be fluent in German but not as much any more. Anyway she was known as the "Chameleon".  Actual she is what could be described as a "Wendenhals" in German more accurately but it may be an act. Think of a Wendenhals as someone who no is very vocally against what the represented before... With Merkel I think it just appears that way.

Could you possibly clarify the part I bolded?  Some errors there and I can't tell what you meant.

[AC]

That is not the picture we have of things here in Russia AC. In fact the only justification I could see for such an action by Putin would be as a distraction from the current economic situation. There is no stomach for a full blown invasion of Ukraine here as far as I can tell. Banks are VERY precarious here now. There was until the central bank ordered a change a 100% spread difference between buy and sell prices on Euro and USD.

What we have seen is Russians queuing up at the post office trying to send money to friends and family in Ukraine. Knowing full well it probably won't get there and will be stolen along the way.

Oh really?  You think Putin gives a damn about public opinion one way or the other?  Economics perhaps.

[Taz]

I will try and explain it again in slightly different terms. Think of someone who was once a Democrat and then for some reason becomes a Republican (in the US system of government). Once they have changed allegiance they now profess a strong dislike of their previous party even though by their OWN CHOICE they were very deeply involved in that party. That is applicable to Frau Merkel. But often the unsaid part of that is are the REALLY against what they strong were in favor of before or are they just changing with the winds, hence the nickname for Merkel of the Chameleon in German...


Her previous connections show she was more deeply involved than often is presented to the East German government and party. So my point being is she REALLY on the side of Europe in general or does she harbor a deeper connection with Russia and Putin than she admits. See the link below regarding how some Germans view the stealing of Crimea. It is in English.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/prominent-germans-have-understanding-for-russian-annexation-of-crimea-a-961711.html


Does that help AC?

[AC]

This is a big part of the problem.  Germans have been doing big business with Russia and on top of it there's a certain unwillingness to help and a disdain for people living between the two countries.  Here's an excerpt from the link Taz gave above.

excerpt
"Some apologists will explain their sympathy as a matter of debt to Russia for German atrocities during World War II. But it is important to remember that the war started with Germany invading Poland from the West — and a few days later the Soviet Union invading Poland from the East, after both sides had secretly agreed to split Eastern Europe between them.

And so when German public figures, parroting Russian propaganda, dismiss Ukraine as “not a real country anyway,” or treat countries at the fault line between the West and Russia as second-class nations with somewhat lesser sovereignty, they are evoking memories in Eastern Europe of the bad old days, when the Nazis and Soviets turned the region into the “Bloodlands” of their respective dictatorships.

For decades Germany has tried to come to terms with its fascist past and to learn important lessons from it. And now, in another country, there comes an authoritarian leader who is trying to stabilize his regime by pursuing aggression abroad on the grounds of ethnic nationalism."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/opinion/why-germans-love-russia.html?_r=0

[Taz]

This crisis is a reason why when you give people ambassadorships that they truly have knowledge, experience and more than a perfunctory connection with the country they are going to. Last thing you need is some political appointee who was given the job because he was a big campaign donor or bundler and this is his/her payback.


I would have been a far better ambassador to any of the countries I've traveled to than likely any of the people the State Department has put there in the last 10 years. I usually speak the language fluently have a lot of experience there, more than just being able to spell the name or find it on a map. 

[AC]

This commentator is just as cynical and myself and BillyB:


4. The Great Game 2.0

type_z 03/31/2014
 
With the USA withdrawing from it's role as world policeman (Bundespolizei ??) The criminals will be in full cry. The only way to avoid being absorbed into the new Russian Empire is to be stronger then the new Russian Empire. Stronger is not just a numbers game, or a matter of who has the pretty weapon. A Man with a rock and a strong will is more powerful then a coward with a maschinenpistole. You guys need to leave the NPT quick and nuke up. Or learn Russian. The last time the Red Army paid a house call, they gang-raped between 2 and 6 million German females. Do you think it will be better or worse this time? Or maybe you will hide behind Poland? Poland will nuke up, count on it. The Original Great Game was played by a handful of European Kings using Wooden ships and gunpowder cannons. Great Game 2.0 will be played by over 100 nations armed with TRBM's and Thermonuclear warheads. I don't think this will end well.

(from the other link posted by Taz above)

[AC]

This crisis is a reason why when you give people ambassadorships that they truly have knowledge, experience and more than a perfunctory connection with the country they are going to. Last thing you need is some political appointee who was given the job because he was a big campaign donor or bundler and this is his/her payback.


I would have been a far better ambassador to any of the countries I've traveled to than likely any of the people the State Department has put there in the last 10 years. I usually speak the language fluently have a lot of experience there, more than just being able to spell the name or find it on a map. 

Obama the great pretender and the great amateur when it comes to foreign affairs.  Just think of a "reset button" that the morons didn't even check to see was translated properly with the people working for them in Russia.

[cc3]

cc3,

      I'm not the one full of crap..that honour belongs to you.

I've asked you to show where my post was totally wrong....but you continue to deflect with your BS .

I don't have to prove anything to you.....you're just some internet forum poster...nobody special/important.

You believe what you want to believe..i really couldn't care less,it won't affect my life one jot.

Sorry to burst your bubble of self-importance...but hey that's reality kicking-in.

You substitute insults for rational discussion. You are a real work of insular Brit irrationality, unworthy of further replies. Adios CB!

[lordtiberius]

CB, I have good news and bad news for you.  The truth is most Americans are nuts.  The good news is most of us disagree with AC.

God Save The Queen!

[lordtiberius]

Taz is right about Merkel.  She is a good leader for Germany but is she good for Europe?  Ask a Greek or a Spainard.