Looks like all FSU women are unfaithful...

[Chelseaboy]

notforone,

                If you're looking for a wife,then i'd say you've got about as much chance of finding a young beauty,who's interest in you is sincere, in the USA as you have in Ukraine...where a large age gap is involved...the odds are against you in either country.

As for your comment about girls in general being no prettier in Ukraine without the make-up than they are in many other countries..i totally agree...although FSU girls do tend to be slimmer in general than their western counterparts.

[Anotherkiwi]

I would rather have a 20ish American hottie all the way every day than any Ukrainian girl. But they won't take me because such large age difference is not acceptable in my culture whereas the UW's will. This is the only reason I am willing to continue to go there.

And yet your status is that you have been "Married 5-10 years." 

A player, perhaps?     Or have you just not bothered to change the status?   

[fathertime]

I would rather have a 20ish American hottie all the way every day than any Ukrainian girl. But they won't take me because such large age difference is not acceptable in my culture whereas the UW's will. This is the only reason I am willing to continue to go there.

I think you are completely correct regarding an american 20 year old woman....most men that are quite a bit older don't have a real shot.  If that is what you are determined to have you have to go elsewhere.  20 is pretty damn young though...if you move up just 3-4years their will be significantly more options. IMO   I don't remember you age though.   


Fathertime!   

[ML]

I would rather have a 20ish American hottie all the way every day than any Ukrainian girl. But they won't take me because such large age difference is not acceptable in my culture whereas the UW's will. This is the only reason I am willing to continue to go there.

An honest man; and a true statement.

[ML]

As for your comment about girls in general being no prettier in Ukraine without the make-up than they are in many other countries..i totally agree...although FSU girls do tend to be slimmer in general than their western counterparts.

True on both counts.

[Gator]

@Gator:

Ref: insecure for the girls showing on youtube -> they feel they have to wear so much make up, fake extra long eyelashes, lipstick that make their lips appear like vaginal, extra short skirts, super high heels, etc.  I can only see one reason (in fact, I know it is one reason), i.e., they are insecure.

I agree this is a cheap look.  Yet I do not see it as insecurity.  I see it as women with bad tastes and not very bright, not even able to study fashion ads in magazines to determine what looks good.   You could say they lack the confidence to look different from the UW pancake trend, but to call all UW insecure is wrong IMO. 

It is their culture that makes women insecure. Everyone knows the Russian woman must dress up and put makeup to take the trash out from fear she may be seen by neighbors and be called ugly. If this is not insecurity, then I don't know what is ...

My Russian wife will go to the grocery store without makeup.   Yet she will dress up for all scheduled meetings, even with our tax accountant who she knows will be wearing shorts.  She dresses up not because of insecurity but because she feels dressing up is the classy way to conduct one's affairs.  Plus she looks great, knows it and likes to show off her femininity.  And her makeup and attire do not look like the women in the video.

American woman doesn't give a shit. We may not like it and prefer women who will bend backwards to appeal to us men, but I must admit AW's are more secure.
I have respect for AW's because of this.

Notforme, you puzzle me.  You respect AW and do not respect FSUW, yet seek a bride from the FSU.  Why?  It seems your reason is because you believe you can find a FSUW to love you who will be 10 years younger than an AW who would love you. 

Does this not strike you as shallow?  For your sake I hope the FSUW you marry is not so shallow and looks beyond your age to think of you as her man.   

I am the last person to criticize someone for being attracted to younger women.  In fact, I am married to a much younger RW, a successful runway model for 14 years with assignments in much of Europe.  Our age difference is an issue but a small one in comparison to all the good that is happening.  However, it took years and years for it to develop, and it is still developing. 

[notforone]

@fathertime:
47
20 not good for marriage, not because of the age gap, but because of the age itself (good for fa quick flick though)
A 9-10 age 24-28 with no kids is ideal for me. Am I asking too much? 

@Gator:
1) insecurity = lack of confidence 

2) I was not speaking about your wife, she sounds a good woman and I wish you the best. I don’t think the age difference can be a problem as long as you can keep (it) up 

3) I have done this before and anyone who has done it before knows well that a young girl can change her mind about love as the years go by, heck I did, too. So, choice should not be made based on love, it’s a recipe for failure IMO. Even in truly successful marriages (which are a small minority by the way), after a while most likely one gets used to the other and it’s not like in the beginning. Getting married to a young woman from the FSU because of love … hmmm … I can find so many wrongs ... So, I don’t disrespect FSU women. I just call it as I see it. The age gap a beautiful FSUW would be willing to accept is larger than what a beautiful AW would and this is a fact. This alone makes the search for an FSUW a worthwhile endeavor. Other factors have to be weighed in, as well.

What I do is this: date and have fun, take things slowly, if I everything clicks right and it's mutual, then marriage is a possibility, but it’s not a means to an end, don’t have to get married, if it happens great, if it doesn’t great, too, as long as there are good memories.

[BorisS]

@fathertime:
47
20 not good for marriage, not because of the age gap, but because of the age itself (good for fa quick flick though)
A 9-10 age 24-28 with no kids is ideal for me. Am I asking too much? 

@Gator:
1) insecurity = lack of confidence 

2) I was not speaking about your wife, she sounds a good woman and I wish you the best. I don’t think the age difference can be a problem as long as you can keep (it) up 

3) I have done this before and anyone who has done it before knows well that a young girl can change her mind about love as the years go by, heck I did, too. So, choice should not be made based on love, it’s a recipe for failure IMO. Even in truly successful marriages (which are a small minority by the way), after a while most likely one gets used to the other and it’s not like in the beginning. Getting married to a young woman from the FSU because of love … hmmm … I can find so many wrongs ... So, I don’t disrespect FSU women. I just call it as I see it. The age gap a beautiful FSUW would be willing to accept is larger than what a beautiful AW would and this is a fact. This alone makes the search for an FSUW a worthwhile endeavor. Other factors have to be weighed in, as well.

What I do is this: date and have fun, take things slowly, if I everything clicks right and it's mutual, then marriage is a possibility, but it’s not a means to an end, don’t have to get married, if it happens great, if it doesn’t great, too, as long as there are good memories.

But the likelihood that the reasons for them accepting this age difference for reasons other than love or wanting to be married to you increase proportionately with that age difference. The few successful exceptions to this just cloud your judgement.

[Gator]

3) I have done this before and anyone who has done it before knows well that a young girl can change her mind about love as the years go by, heck I did, too. So, choice should not be made based on love, it’s a recipe for failure IMO.

Why marry?   

It is easy to get a young AW girlfriend who is wanting to improve her financial situation.  Not only do they look good, they cost  less than a wife.  Most important they are readily disposable for the short and long term - they leave after sex, and a man has no obligations if she becomes tiresome.  I have two friends my age doing exactly that. 

I tried it for a while with an educated, gorgeous, intelligent, entertaining and lively blonde who was exploring what she wanted to do in life (and was low on money).  Something important was missing in our relationship.  And if you don't know what's missing, I suggest you try the same. 

Even in truly successful marriages (which are a small minority by the way)...

 

Small minority?  Most of my friends are happy in their marriages, and most of these are married to their first and only wife.
 

  ...after a while most likely one gets used to the other and it’s not like in the beginning.       

It should get better with time, not worse.  If this is not your case, it is more reason for you to be a Sugar Daddy.  You can have sex and companionship when you want it rather than just when you travel.

Getting married to a young woman from the FSU because of love … hmmm … I can find so many wrongs ...

I twice married RW.  Once for love, and one for a host of other reasons that seemed good at the time.  Love not only prevailed, it is far far better.   That's me, and you are you. 

The age gap a beautiful FSUW would be willing to accept is larger than what a beautiful AW would and this is a fact. This alone makes the search for an FSUW a worthwhile endeavor.

You are beginning to sound like a sex tourist,  not a sex tourist who seeks prostitutes, but that category who take advantage of economic disparity to play around and pretend it is only casual sex and they are Casanova.  Please tell me again who is insecure?

What I do is this: date and have fun, take things slowly, if I everything clicks right and it's mutual, then marriage is a possibility, but it’s not a means to an end, don’t have to get married, if it happens great, if it doesn’t great, too, as long as there are good memories.

There is a line between getting to know a young woman and "catch and release fishing."   It is defined by intentions and determined in part by frequency.
 

The more you talk the more I believe that you should be a Sugar Daddy for an AW.    Such AW are out there but not as easy to find as selecting names from FSU marriage brokers' profiles.

[ML]

You are beginning to sound like a sex tourist, 

You throw this out with tiresome frequency.  Like blacks playing the race card.

[vwrw]

Ref: insecure for the girls showing on youtube -> they feel they have to wear so much make up, fake extra long eyelashes, lipstick that make their lips appear like vaginal, extra short skirts, super high heels, etc. I can only see one reason (in fact, I know it is one reason), i.e., they are insecure. It is their culture that makes women insecure. Everyone knows the Russian woman must dress up and put makeup to take the trash out from fear she may be seen by neighbors and be called ugly. If this is not insecurity, then I don't know what is ...

American woman doesn't give a shit. We may not like it and prefer women who will bend backwards to appeal to us men, but I must admit AW's are more secure.
I have respect for AW's because of this.

...............
I would rather have a 20ish American hottie all the way every day than any Ukrainian girl. But they won't take me because such large age difference is not acceptable in my culture whereas the UW's will. This is the only reason I am willing to continue to go there.

First of all, the girls in the video were participating in a TV show. They have almost as much makeup as American women wear when they are participating in a TV show here.


Second, those women are dressed to appeal to Ukrainian men. Did you hear saying "when in Rome , do as Romans do" ? While these girls grew up, they were absorbing the cultural notions of what is beautiful and sexy therein and now they behave accordingly.


Behaving according to cultural expectations is NOT a sign of insecurity.  It is a sign of being a normal person.


I like to dress myself nicely and go out. It has nothing to do with any fear. It is just enjoyably when people look at you with admiration, tell you compliments, and everybody is so nice to you.


Many american women care to be attractive too, they just have a different notions of what is beautiful and sexy. I would say american women  bend backwards to appeal to men as much as UW do, they just do it in a different  way. They spend an hour to straighten their hair and suffer from teeth sensitivity because of teeth whitening.

There are men who would prefer having mature american women all the way every day than any hot Ukrainian girl. That certainly does not mean that mature american women are hotter that Ukrainian girls. Your opinion is just one opinion which may or may not be true.

[Gator]

You throw this out [sex tourist] with tiresome frequency.  Like blacks playing the race card.

Your comment surprised me because I don't remember throwing the term out frequently.  I could be wrong so I did a search for  the words "sex tourist" under my name. 

There were about 20 precise hits in my 10,000 posts, not so many to suggest tiresome frequency.   

Many of these hits were my defending Northkape, Rembrandt, Ambach, Mars, MOB men in general, etc. who had been accused by other members as being sex tourists.   Most of the rest were largely general discussion about sex tourism in general, e. g., noting that sex tourists and scammers avoid each other.

My attitude about sex tourism is captured in something I wrote when chairing the committee to prepare RWD's Code of Conduct.  I wrote sex tourism is "difficult to describe."


Three times  I did accuse someone as a sex tourist. 

1.  cbstogner -   who wrote, "Her dream is to strip in Vegas, so she's going to have to marry an American within the next year. I'm going to play that card, get what I want, and then leave her high and dry like all the others."

2.  Pike/Albert - I wrote, "He knows the Planet love people.  He has been doing this for 5, 6, 7... years.  And he has yet to find one woman with whom he wants an exclusive relationship, to file a K-1.  Not one woman.  What does that say?   It is a pattern that repeats itself, and Pike's DNP report is just the latest example.

That is why I contend that Pike is a sexual tourist.  Not only that, I contend he is a sexual addict as demonstrated by his  multiple sexual partners, one-night stands,  phone sex, exhibitionism (giving a woman an orgasm while riding a crowded public bus), obsessive dating through personal ads, and voyeurism (filming teenagers playing with nipples)."

3.   An unnamed American  man described in a report as snooping through a UW's computer,  reading her private emails, getting his condoms ready, .....


With regard to my post to notforone, I am not accusing him of sex tourism, just suggesting that his approach could be interpreted in that direction.  I had no intention of offending notforone.  After all, he married a FSUW, and in my definition sexual tourists never marry. 


ML, you do realize that your race card analogy works only if I were a FSUW and a victim of sex tourism. 

[notforone]

But the likelihood that the reasons for them accepting this age difference for reasons other than love or wanting to be married to you increase proportionately with that age difference. The few successful exceptions to this just cloud your judgement.

Do you have any evidence that would suggest what you state is true? If not, then it's an opinion and we are all entitled to have our own. I'd rather be wrong on a 25 year old fsu girl than a 40 year old fsu granny

You are beginning to sound like a sex tourist,  not a sex tourist who seeks prostitutes, but that category who take advantage of economic disparity to play around and pretend it is only casual sex and they are Casanova.  Please tell me again who is insecure?

You should not use words that, as you admit, don't fully understand. A man who has sex with a foreign woman is not necessarily a sex tourist  I always go to Ukraine invited by a single woman and always get acquainted with her before I go there but with no promises. I have never given money or expensive presents to any girl. If a young hot girl wants to have sex with me, should I say no?  I'm a warm-blooded male and I will go for the kill every time I get the chance. If the woman is worthy enough to stand next to me in life, then I will marry her. This is my attitude and I understand it may not be generally accepted. It works for me.

While these girls grew up, they were absorbing the cultural notions of what is beautiful and sexy therein and now they behave accordingly.

That's what I said, it's their culture to function as sex objects. It is insecurity when you do things just to appeal in a certain way to others, secure people are happy being themselves. Anyway, I love some makeup and nice, sexy clothes on girls, but the ones on the video are way overdone.

[Misha]

I agree this is a cheap look.  Yet I do not see it as insecurity.  I see it as women with bad tastes and not very bright, not even able to study fashion ads in magazines to determine what looks good.   You could say they lack the confidence to look different from the UW pancake trend, but to call all UW insecure is wrong IMO. 

I can't comment on Ukraine, but at least in my wife's city, this is no longer the case. Saturday, my wife, SIL and some friends went out to a nice club. The women were dressed for a night out and did wear make-up. But, it was quite modest, comparable to what you would see in most places in North America.

[Gator]

I can't comment on Ukraine, but at least in my wife's city, this is no longer the case. Saturday, my wife, SIL and some friends went out to a nice club. The women were dressed for a night out and did wear make-up. But, it was quite modest, comparable to what you would see in most places in North America.

   

You rascal, enjoying yourself in Russia. 

Your observations are consistent with mine, except I would say RW and AW wear about the same amount of makeup.   IMO UW in general wear much more makeup, especially in the provincial cities.  Even there, many UW have a natural look.

Misha, what comments have you heard about the Russian economy?  Does anyone talk about Ukraine? 

[Faux Pas]

Misha, what comments have you heard about the Russian economy?  Does anyone talk about Ukraine?

I'm not Misha but, the wife and I have been trying to get out of the MIL how she is doing financially and how is the rising inflation in Russia taking a toll on her. She's an old time Russian and she has been an ardent supporter of Putin and thus she wouldn't comment much on the economy and the situation for the pensioners at all. She's just now beginning to open up on the grimness of the situation. She buys nothing more than the usual staples from the store and now, even she is saying how if the prices don't go down, she won't make it. It took a lot for her to admit that. Not much of a yardstick I know but I can tell, the average Russian is beginning to feel the pinch.

She grows most of her food which, if she didn't, she could make it anyway. Much too proud to accept any money from her daughter (or me). My wife is going to visit in a few weeks and will have enough hard cash to stock the MIL up on her essentials. Likely a year or so worth. Hopefully that will make the MIL's money stretch farther

[Anotherkiwi]

...the MIL's an old time Russian and she has been an ardent supporter of Putin and thus she wouldn't comment much on the economy and the situation for the pensioners at all. She's just now beginning to open up on the grimness of the situation.

Thanks for that, Faux Pas.  Again, if she is a representative example, the ordinary Russians MUST be starting to realise that all is not well with their paradise.  Unfortunately, a lot of them will still not realise why.

Best wishes to your MIL (and all of everyone else's Russian relatives whose lives have been affected by the sanctions).

[Misha]

Misha, what comments have you heard about the Russian economy?  Does anyone talk about Ukraine?

I try to avoid talking about Ukraine. It is rare to find anybody who had not bought the Kremlin line lock, stock and barrel (sigh). On Russian television, is is the 24/7 Putin show that seeks to justify each and every action of the Russian state. The latest I saw was the Russian news trying to justify how the falling rouble is actually good for the economy and Putin explaining that had he stayed until the end of the G20 he would have had to wait for his turn to fly out and as there are 20 people, it would have taken so much time.

Then, there was the attempt by Kiselev to downplay the G20 by focusing on the the APEC summit and he spent some five minutes trying to prove how the Chinese leader's relationship was so much better with Putin than with Obama and how Putin had been positioned so much nearer to the center next to the Chinese leader whereas Obama was placed so much farther away. The critical cynic in me, however, would wager that it was more a question of height than importance as Obama would have towered over the Chinese leader had he been placed next to him 

So far, the day to day life of most of the people that I interact with has not been hit too much, but that may change quickly. If inflation continues to push prices up, then that will certainly leave people with tough choices. 

[Chicagoguy]

My wife is a big Putin fan but she at least has stopped talking about it. She is also in contact with a woman in a Russian village North of St. Petersburg who talks about panic  buying. They are worried.

[Anotherkiwi]

They are worried.

Good! 

[chooter]

Hello I have been reading alot of threads about Russia and Ukraine in a "Pick up Artist Forum" to gather some info on cities.

Several of the members on this forum advise against having a long term relationship with FSU woman because sooner or later they will cheat on their husbands and boyfriends.

"Their hypergamy is constantly looking to trade up, they have little respect for marriage as a life-long institution...
they have a funny view of fidelity, certain forms of prostitution are socially acceptable"

"They are fantastic for short and medium-term relationships, but I am convinced even the sweetest FSU girl would "censored" you over in marriage."

"Russian women are women in the end of the day, are just hypergamous as their Western counterpart, the only difference is that, its a more constructive hypergamy (if you can go that far). Its about getting married and not riding the casserole during their best years. However they will be looking to trade up on you, and even your most Alpha males will have a hard time dealing with the ego of an average Russian girl who moves up 3 points, when she starts living in the U.K or U.S."

"I have been told the opposite from my russian friends (ie. never to date a russian girl). This is because the very second they are not entertained they will go behind your back and cheat on you"

"I wouldn't really trust ANY russian women (I have scr*w*d dozens of married women, girls with fiancees, local and foreign boyfriends etc. without really trying that hard... they seemed to feel no real shame in doing it either)"

"I agree, you cannot really trust Russian women, and they often don't seem to have any qualms about lying."

Well these dudes are all sexual tourists so I think that their perception is wrong:

They aproach hundreds of woman and let's say that they sleep with 20, so they think that those 20 FSU woman are representative of all of them, they forgot about the other 80 women that blow them off!

I don't think that this topic was discussed earlier.
Fellow comrades, what do you think? Are these women all cheaters?

Look what you could be missing out on if you believe all that B/S on that forum. My wife and I were there when this was being filmed.

[chooter]

I'll try to do a trip report on our visit to Staryj Oskol for one of my wife's friends wedding this week and give you an idea of what we saw happening, questions I was asked as an American by her friends, other people that could tell I was American and my answers and what my wife thinks of Putin.

[notforone]

Look what you could be missing out on if you believe all that B/S on that forum. My wife and I were there when this was being filmed.

I watched first 3 mins, then clicked forward a few times, it's the same theme for 2 hours. Chubby girls in wedding dresses running around. What is this supposed to be? and what is that we are missing? what are they feeding these girls in oskol? Never been to russia, but the girls in the video seem too chubby, I thought RWs are supposed to be slender (one thing I like about ukraine women). Is this the typical woman in that region of russia? I think most the girls in the video are young, and that's about it.

[calmissile]

NotforOne,

I don't agree with your criticism of the women in this video.  To me it looks like a cross section of what is probably the norm although I have never been to Russia.  There are few 'skin and bones' women that we find on MOB sites, (in the video) but for the most part they look like healthy, normal, attractive women.

Being married to a Ukrainian and having made trips to Ukraine, surly you have noticed a proportionate number of heavy and downright fat women in Ukraine as well.

[ML]

surely you have noticed a proportionate number of heavy and downright fat women in Ukraine as well.

Doug, you will never be able to own an agency if you talk crap like this !!