Poroshenko claims Ukraine is now being offered weapons by NATO.

[Shadow]

Poland spends more than the required 2% for a Nato member, so you are wrong about them.

Then why do they need Obama to give them money for building bases?

[Brasscasing]

Poland may not be scared of Russia but they're also not there yet.  Most telling about the article is their deep concern about the Obama administrations words without actions, in fact he puts it simply that as an ally they expect the President to keep his promises when in reality the US President behaves like he's on Oprah -- all show and no go.  Talk is cheap in this part of the World, actions matter much more.

Indeed. Another way to look at it though is, is any country truly ever prepared to 'jump off' on short notice. I take you back to desert shield then storm (9 months prep). I'd envision at least three months prep in Europe to mobilize an effective NATO response as well.

However, I personally don't think Russia's 'there' either despite media hype to the contrary. Not for a full scale invasion of Eastern Europe with any hope of holding their gains, anyway.

We're going to be aware of any Russian troop concentration and will be able to monitor same.  Right now (contrary to Putin's bluster, over flights, etc.) this is the West's biggest asset.

Brass

[Muzh]

Stop watching cartoons with your kid and read the article about what a Polish officer, our ally in E. Europe says about Obama.  And he is only one guy.  Still in denial that Jonathan Gruber was an architect of "Obamacare" as well?  Have some sugar with that denial.

You're so sweet.


A Polish officer can say whatever he wants. I'd be more interested in what Ms. Kopacz had to say about the Nigr.


As far as I'm concerned there are many in Europe and on this side of the pond who remember very fondly Poland's adventurism.

[AC]

Then why do they need Obama to give them money for building bases?

I did not read that they wanted money, I read that they wanted some American tank brigades to be stationed in Poland.  It will happen in 2017 when we have a real President again, instead of an imposter.

[Muzh]

I did not read that they wanted money, I read that they wanted some American tank brigades to be stationed in Poland.  It will happen in 2017 when we have a real President again, instead of an imposter.

So are you saying that the Nigr fabricated over 300 electoral votes?

[Muzh]

I guess this is the only country in the world where 49% constitutes a majority.

[jone]

Actually, as soon as Russia launched on Ukraine, I would have gone in and put up the missile shield in Poland.  Such an emphatic statement would have stopped Putin in his boots.

[Shadow]

I did not read that they wanted money, I read that they wanted some American tank brigades to be stationed in Poland.  It will happen in 2017 when we have a real President again, instead of an imposter.

And do you think that Poland will not be paid for that?
A number of years back Poland had interest in MATO bases, until it became clear that NATO would not pay them for holdingthe bases on Polish territory. then the interes dwindled.
One of the few countries that can compete with the Dutch in tradesmanship are the Polish. In the 80's people from Holland were sending clothes and other goods to Poland to help the poor ex-communists. These were gladly received... to be sold on Austrian and German flea markets. Standing in Vienna you could see Polish traders with Dutch goods.

[Brasscasing]

Actually, as soon as Russia launched on Ukraine, I would have gone in and put up the missile shield in Poland.  Such an emphatic statement would have stopped Putin in his boots.

Yep, but I still maintain Putin has been the opportunist and taken advantage of a weak President. Ukraine wouldn't have happened as it did  in the first place if a stronger President had been in office.

We witnessed a perfect storm of initial dithering by the EU, NATO and the U.S. (as the de facto world leader).

Brass

[AC]

I guess this is the only country in the world where 49% constitutes a majority.

I wonder why you keep trying to direct your weak arguments at me?  Try directing them at poster Brass.  I'm not interested in your whining.  Maybe he will humor you.

[jone]

I guess this is the only country in the world where 49% constitutes a majority.

It did in Bush V. Gore.

[AC]

And do you think that Poland will not be paid for that?
A number of years back Poland had interest in MATO bases, until it became clear that NATO would not pay them for holdingthe bases on Polish territory. then the interes dwindled.
One of the few countries that can compete with the Dutch in tradesmanship are the Polish. In the 80's people from Holland were sending clothes and other goods to Poland to help the poor ex-communists. These were gladly received... to be sold on Austrian and German flea markets. Standing in Vienna you could see Polish traders with Dutch goods.

I don't have any argument with you about that.  I only mentioned that they are spending slightly more than the required 2%.  Hopefully they will change their ways in the interest of defense.  Either way look for what they want (American tank brigades in Poland) to happen in 2017 when we have a Republican President.

[AC]

Yep, but I still maintain Putin has been the opportunist and taken advantage of a weak President. Ukraine wouldn't have happened as it did  in the first place if a stronger President had been in office.

We witnessed a perfect storm of initial dithering by the EU, NATO and the U.S. (as the de facto world leader).

Brass

Look Muzh, fresh bait!!  (or is it somehow personal with you?)

 

[Brasscasing]

Look Muzh, fresh bait!!  (or is it somehow personal with you?)

 

Muzh and I are buddies. We don't argue unless it involves potential police raids in his neighborhood.   

Brass

[AC]

I will let the Poles get the last word on this matter: (previously mentioned by Gator but not bolded)


Quote
“I didn’t need the Beltway media to tell me who the real chickenshit is.” “They really have no idea what they are doing,” he opined about Obama and his national security staff, “and we know it. You have no idea how many promises we’ve been given, even by the President himself, but there’s never any follow-up, it’s all talk. He thinks he’s on Oprah.” When I asked if he thought America would come to Poland’s aid in a crisis, he said laconically, “I’d flip a coin.”

In a similar vein, a senior Polish intelligence official, another veteran of long collaboration with Washington, DC, expressed his skepticism to me. “Is it 1939 again? I don’t know,” he explained, “but I think Obama isn’t even a Chamberlain"

[Shadow]

I don't have any argument with you about that.  I only mentioned that they are spending slightly more than the required 2%.  Hopefully they will change their ways in the interest of defense.  Either way look for what they want (American tank brigades in Poland) to happen in 2017 when we have a Republican President.

Not if russia has joined the EU.

[AkMike]

By 2017?? Fat Chance it'd happen by 3017!

[AC]

Not if russia has joined the EU.

With Mr. Putin as President?

 

[lordtiberius]

Hey Jay, I want to come back to this article.  . . . Putin who is making his military stronger. . . .

With what money?  In Rubles?

In the summer, the Russian President was paying Chechen mercs $ 300 a day.  I don't think that is do-able which is prolly why he is begging Central Asian migrant workers to fight the war he started.

You have to pay the joes, Billy B.

Those Joes will turn their guns on their officers if they don't get paid.  It will be like 1941 all over again.  Except this time it will be Ukrainian military and they will be nicer than the Nazis because they will treat the conquered population like brothers.  The invasion of Moscow is happening maybe as early as this summer  especially when the Ruskies are trading Rubles for Grivna.

Tell us again about those 20 armored divisions.   

[Muzh]

Yep, but I still maintain Putin has been the opportunist and taken advantage of a weak President. Ukraine wouldn't have happened as it did  in the first place if a stronger President had been in office.

We witnessed a perfect storm of initial dithering by the EU, NATO and the U.S. (as the de facto world leader).

Brass

Brass Bud, with all due respect, a US show of force would have been exactly what Putler was waiting for and who knows what would have happened. THIS issue is still a European issue. The moment the US would have gotten involved, Putler would have won.


Proof?


Look at the rantings from the European ultra-right claiming this is a US-led takeover of Ukraine. No matter what you say stating the opposite, the US DID this.

[Muzh]

Look Muzh, fresh bait!!  (or is it somehow personal with you?)

 

Pero que infeliz!!!


Sorry, Brass and I can agree and then agree to disagree as civilized human beings.


He's a bud.

[AC]

Brass Bud, with all due respect, a US show of force would have been exactly what Putler was waiting for and who knows what would have happened. THIS issue is still a European issue. The moment the US would have gotten involved, Putler would have won.


Proof?


Look at the rantings from the European ultra-right claiming this is a US-led takeover of Ukraine. No matter what you say stating the opposite, the US DID this.

That's you and the rest of the lefties worrying about what Europe thinks.  The rest of us know that Europe manages to get themselves into some sort of war or quagmire every few decades and that without US leadership they would likely be speaking either German or Russian across the entire continent right now.

[Muzh]

Muzh and I are buddies. We don't argue unless it involves potential police raids in his neighborhood.   

Brass

LMFAO


You remember. Good one!!

[Gator]

Standing in Vienna you could see Polish traders with Dutch goods.

After meeting you, I wondered where you bought your clothes.

[lordtiberius]

lessons learned on the last invasion of Russia: