Poroshenko claims Ukraine is now being offered weapons by NATO.

[lordtiberius]

But there are no Russians in Ukraine

[Steamer]

Why?

Another reason is NATO applicants cannot have any ongoing border disputes (Crimea). Also their military must be on a par with other members.

[Chelseaboy]

I'd imagine Ukraine's military is on a par with or stronger than Estonia's and Lithuania's ?

[jone]

What is doing NATO in Ukraine, today zero.
I write this message for the second time.
Ukraine and south of Russia were jewish during 2.000 years. Russia win this country, and now Israel want to come back in Ukraine, the country of fathers. In my state, Cherkassy oblast, 45% were jewish before bolcheviks start to kill them.
These people will come back in Ukraine and fight since Maidan against Russia and now in Donbass.
They are masters with drones, 18 19 August russian army had to go to Crimea but was stopped and this was done without died in Ukraine army.
3 days before, russian wanted to take airport in Donetsk. About 200 of the best soldiers commandos russian died, zero from Ukraine.
Only drones can do this.
Yes this week Canada official, but this is USA send 42 monsters bags (I dont know the name in english) arrived in Ukraine.
The real work is made from Honolulu or Birmark or Providence, or Haifa with men with the joistick command for drones.

And I give you last news, Europe and soon all occidental countries block change with rouble, that is, it will be impossible for russian people to go in our countries. This is same as blocus of visas.

Your last comments demonstrate a set of wishful thoughts.  It ain't a gonna happen.  While the Western Powers may exclude Russia from Swift systems or other financial access, the Ruble must be exchanged.  Otherwise all of the other financial systems would collapse as well, in time.  Moreover, it would set a precedent that would damage civilization as we know it.

[Muzh]

I'd imagine Ukraine's military is on a par with or stronger than Estonia's and Lithuania's ?

Stronger than both combined.

[AC]

I'd imagine Ukraine's military is on a par with or stronger than Estonia's and Lithuania's ?

I would think so.  Hopefully strong enough to eventually push the Russians out of their country, or at least keep them stalemated where they are.  I suspect that they have been getting some weapons from NATO members, but are keeping it quiet.

[JayH]

I'd imagine Ukraine's military is on a par with or stronger than Estonia's and Lithuania's ?

First place in the ranking took the US


 Lifestyle
In the ranking of the most powerful armies of Ukraine took the weighty position
20/01/2015 16:49

MATERIALS:
Within a month, the Ukrainian army will receive a new armored car "Khazar"
Ukraine has launched the first in this year's "wave of mobilization"
Army of Ukraine will take part in 11 international exercises
Mobilization touches 200 thousand Ukrainians - Matios

Tweet
Ukraine in the world ranking of the most powerful armies located at 21 th place
 This is according to rankings Global Firepower, transmits 112.ua .
 In total, ranking 106 countries listed.
Notes that the Ukrainian military power still shows some roots of the Soviet era, but in a more modern version.
The first place in this ranking took the United States, the second - Russia.
The third was China, followed by India, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Turkey and South Korea.
 Ukraine in the ranking located between Australia (20 position) and Iran (22 place).
http://comments.ua/life/504479-v-reytinge-samih-moshchnih-armiy-ukraina.html

[lordtiberius]

Papa cool is right.  NATO isn't doing dick and Billy B's criticism of the Qaddafi war stands.  NATO was made to take on mad Russian tyrants and here we are dickering over Poroshenko's war record.  How can anyone criticize this man given the 'help' we gave them?

[JayH]

January 21, 2015, 12:31 Kiev
All articles / World

In the US, call types of weapons that Ukraine may receive from Washington

"It is planned to supply fire control radars, combat-protected command and combat network. This is the most important in the fight, "- said a military expert Mackenzie Aglen.

Voice of America
Posted 01/21/2015

H and this week will arrive in Ukraine Command of the Army US Army, said at a briefing the press secretary of the General Staff Vladislav Seleznev. The purpose of the visit will be to assess the situation in eastern Ukraine, and to discuss further assistance to the Ukrainian armed forces. What kind of weapons the United States can provide Ukraine, taking into account the new law to support freedom of Ukraine and the new Pentagon budget, the Voice of America's military expert told the American Enterprise Institute Mackenzie Aglen.

"It is planned to supply fire control radars, combat-protected command and combat network. This is the most important thing in battle. No matter what you have weapons, but if you all are not connected, you will always lose. This, as well as reconnaissance drones and other types of robotic arms provide a significant advantage, which Ukraine has not been until now, "- said the expert.

http://ru.krymr.com/content/article/26805208.html

[AC]

Good post Jay.  If the USA starts giving Ukraine some weapon systems right away they should be able to hold for awhile.

excerpt
"It is planned to supply  fire control radars, combat-protected command and combat network. This is the most important thing in battle. No matter what you have weapons, but if you all are not connected, you will always lose. This, as well as reconnaissance drones and other types of robotic arms provide a significant advantage..."

[lordtiberius]

Its peanuts. 

The CIA has a black budget that is off the books.  We could buy up the Warsaw Pact arsenal funnel it through the LESSER members of NATO like Canada and this 1 million man Army John Schindler wants could get armed.  But is that happening?

No.

Obama is selling out the Euromaidan revolution just like he sold out the Green Revolution.

[JayH]

The Death of Ukraine’s Cyborg Army

One of the most tragic developments of what is now, undeniably, a Russian-Ukrainian war has unfolded over the last week when more than 400 Ukrainian soldiers were nearly butchered on live, Russian state-controlled television.

Kiev maintains that it needs precision weapons to effectively — and humanely — defend its territory and repel the separatist onslaught.

Meanwhile, the death toll continues to rise. Last week, rockets fired by Russian-backed fighters hit a bus and killed 13 people in Volnovakha. In October, a funeral procession in Ukrainian-held Sartana, just outside Mariupol, was hit by artillery shells, which left seven civilians dead and another 15 wounded. It is now well established that the Russian-backed fighters often launch these rockets from civilian areas, effectively using the people of eastern Ukraine as human shields.

Kiev maintains that it needs precision weapons to effectively — and humanely — defend its territory and repel the separatist onslaught.Kiev maintains that it needs precision weapons to effectively — and humanely — defend its territory and repel the separatist onslaught. But its requests to the international community, including to the United States, for drones to better target its artillery have fallen on deaf ears. (The United States says it has supplied Ukraine’s border guards with some lightly armored vehicles, but it’s not clear how Washington thinks these vehicles will stack up against T-72 tanks and other heavy Russian military equipment that are actively being deployed in eastern Ukraine.) Kiev has grounded its air force after Russian-backed separatists shot down multiple fighter jets — and, infamously, one civilian airliner — with advanced anti-aircraft systems like the Strela-10 and Buk.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/22/the-death-of-ukraines-cyborg-army-ukraine-russia-donetsk-airport-shelling/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Flashpoints&utm_campaign=2014_FlashPoints%20%5BManual%5DRS1%2F22

[JayH]

Reading many articles from all types of media outlets it is an overwhelming majority  that have good understanding of the seriousness of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  I also can see many elected members of US government(from both sides) also have a good understanding as the early days of Russian lies has been overcome with the sheer enormity of factual stories.
None of what has been written will be a surprise to those who manage US government decision making--in this case I refer to the specific agencies that advise the Presidents administration .
I do not buy into the anti-Obama vitriol here from the US guys--he is the President of the United States--in effect the leader of what we know as the free democratic world and it will be the decisions made by his administration that is going to decide Ukraine's fate-as such-- I am totally respectful of the difficulties faced  in that process.
My plea today is for all you guys( & girls) to forget your internal political issues and see this for what it is-- a humanitarian crisis that needs the strongest action to save them-- and millions of others.
Instead of writing crap here on the forum-- write/call your local representatives office and tell them why the US help is needed urgently-it cannot hurt!


 Follow
 
John McCainVerified account
‏@SenJohnMcCain
Again- US failure to help #Ukraine is shameful. "Pro-Russian rebels reject peace deal, launch new offensive"

Pro-Russian rebels reject peace deal, launch new offensive
A top NATO official confirmed that rebels had pushed west and received reinforcements. U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove said air-defense and electronic-warfare equipment have been detected in eastern Ukraine - hardware that, in the past, coincided with the incursion of Russian troops into Ukraine.
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=FAgiwm1J

[fathertime]

My plea today is for all you guys( & girls) to forget your internal political issues and see this for what it is-- a humanitarian crisis that needs the strongest action to save them-- and millions of others.
Instead of writing crap here on the forum-- write/call your local representatives office and tell them why the US help is needed urgently-it cannot hurt!
 

What a bunch of nonsense....sure forget all your internal problems in the states and go focus on a country on a continent across the ocean.     Why don't YOU worry about YOURSELF, your country,  and not try to tell everybody else what they need to be concerned about?   You have the option to go fight if you feel so strongly about it, as does anybody else....but again from your reclining chair you try to call OTHERS to action. 


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

Funds which you control disbursement of (to minimize corruption), and which improves the lives of locals comes back to you in spades.  We're not talking a huge sum of money.
 
I would have no issues with a portion of my tax dollars being used to improve structures in Ukraine.

[jone]

Bo -

I would have no problem with part of my tax dollars used to stabilize a country.  The people who would object the most are probably the ones who aren't paying in in the first place.  They probably sit around all day with big beer bellies complaining that the US isn't doing enough for them. 

Then when someone tries to stand up to propose  a solution that involves contributing money that is to be used to rebuild an economy and society, they belly ache like its their own personal savings account.

I think that the Marshall Plan, after WWII was the greatest foreign policy coupe that the US ever pulled off.  Those countries are still thankful to us when it is 80 years later.  Ya never know when we might need their help.

The US has done virtually nothing in this administration in the way of foreign policy.  Support for the rebuilding of Ukraine would be a great step in a different and correct direction.

[AC]

Bo -

I would have no problem with part of my tax dollars used to stabilize a country.  The people who would object the most are probably the ones who aren't paying in in the first place.  They probably sit around all day with big beer bellies complaining that the US isn't doing enough for them. 

Then when someone tries to stand up to propose  a solution that involves contributing money that is to be used to rebuild an economy and society, they belly ache like its their own personal savings account.

I think that the Marshall Plan, after WWII was the greatest foreign policy coupe that the US ever pulled off.  Those countries are still thankful to us when it is 80 years later.  Ya never know when we might need their help.

The US has done virtually nothing in this administration in the way of foreign policy.  Support for the rebuilding of Ukraine would be a great step in a different and correct direction.

Good post, however who is going to evict the Russians and their mercenaries out of E. Ukraine?  Nobody can even begin to think of financially helping Ukraine until their country is secure.  That time is likely a long way off.

[AC]

Obama is selling out the Euromaidan revolution just like he sold out the Green Revolution.

Do you expect anything less from the real Manchurian Candidate? (as stated by Taz and correctly so)

[JayH]

No point in putting the cart before the horse.
The first decision is that aid to defend themselves is the priority -- anything else is secondary at this time. Give them the weapons to neutralise the Russian invasion-- and then to drive them out.
That will break Russia if time can be created to let sanctions do their job  -increase the sanctions to apply maximum pressure on Russians.

For the USA & the free democratic world--facing the problem of dealing with Russia now--while there is a motivated and capable ground force to do the job-- will be a lot easier now than the size of the problems that Russia will create in the future-problems for all the world-- and that includes the US of A.

[Brasscasing]

What a bunch of nonsense....sure forget all your internal problems in the states and go focus on a country on a continent across the ocean.     Why don't YOU worry about YOURSELF, your country,  and not try to tell everybody else what they need to be concerned about?   You have the option to go fight if you feel so strongly about it, as does anybody else....but again from your reclining chair you try to call OTHERS to action. 

FT, I gotta comment, of all the things to pick on JayH for that para you quoted of his above ain't one of them. Where or how you found offence in those words is beyond me. In the language of a younger generation that was harsh.

Good post, however who is going to evict the Russians and their mercenaries out of E. Ukraine?  Nobody can even begin to think of financially helping Ukraine until their country is secure.  That time is likely a long way off.

True. There are a number of Canadian charitable organizations doing humanitarian aid services in country though.  This being one...

http://secure.redcross.ca/registrant/sessionExpired.aspx?eID=143853&lp=en-CA

...there are others organizations, as well. Whatever organization someone might choose to donate to view them as you would this pursuit and employ due diligence. There are scams in charities as anywhere else.

Mendy,

Several years ago you wrote a piece on an orphanage/hospital. An incredible story but for the life of me I can't remember it's location or for that matter even the country, but I wonder if applicable (country wise) and it still exists, it might not be a good time, if you still have it, to blow the dust off and repost it?

Brass

[fathertime]

Bo -

I would have no problem with part of my tax dollars used to stabilize a country.  The people who would object the most are probably the ones who aren't paying in in the first place.  They probably sit around all day with big beer bellies complaining that the US isn't doing enough for them. 

Then when someone tries to stand up to propose  a solution that involves contributing money that is to be used to rebuild an economy and society, they belly ache like its their own personal savings account.
 

Haha!  obviously somebody has been using the block/unblock again! 




So according to Jone, if somebody rightfully questions tax dollars being spent overseas on a foreign populace, that means they are beer-bellied, sitting around, and not paying taxes!  Once again, the tactic is to demonize or demoralize those that disagree with a certain POV.   The common tactic (among a certain set of posters) has been identified, is trite, and is not going to work.    Since Jone is so anxious to spend 'his' money why isn't he doing so? Why isn't he donating his 'fortune'?  Why is it that the rest of the citizenry of the USA are supposed to pay for a modern day Marshall Plan?  There are plenty of people that need infrastructure improvements here, but they are probably lazy complaining minorities with beer bellies and unworthy of the assistance.   


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Funds which you control disbursement of (to minimize corruption), and which improves the lives of locals comes back to you in spades.  We're not talking a huge sum of money.
 
I would have no issues with a portion of my tax dollars being used to improve structures in Ukraine.

That is NOT always the case...has the Iraq/Afghanistan money come back in spades? 




Of course you wouldn't have a problem with your tax dollars being spent...you are from Ukraine, very few ordinary citizens of the USA have that same tie that you have and therefore have different priorities.


Fathertime!   

[AC]

Good post, however who is going to evict the Russians and their mercenaries out of E. Ukraine?  Nobody can even begin to think of financially helping Ukraine until their country is secure.  That time is likely a long way off.

I should have qualified this by saying "helping Ukraine with a Marshal type of financial plan".  Of course those who have friends and family over there should be congratulated for doing their best to help Ukraine financially right now.  I know of two posters here who have done that -- Akmike and Taz.

I think that most of us hope that when Ukraine no longer has a constant military threat from Russia, they will be able to receive something like a Marshal Plan.  That is contingent though on Ukraine having dealth with it's corruption problem.  So in all honesty there is some fear on my part that they have a long way to go.  And I understand fathertimes concerns that US money should go for US needs.  Most of us who read about the financial waste and cost for infrastructure in Iraq were pretty upset about it, when there were pressing needs right here in the USA. 

I'm thinking of a couple of bridges that went out in the last year alone here in the USA, and it's probably the tip of the iceberg due to neglect.  So clearly this is a fair concern.

[BillyB]

Of course you wouldn't have a problem with your tax dollars being spent...you are from Ukraine, very few ordinary citizens of the USA have that same tie that you have and therefore have different priorities.

Most Americans do not want to throw their tax dollars into saving and fixing Ukraine. Obama understands this and doing the popular thing is more important to him than doing the right thing. America isn't always going to get a good return from our money but we can be proud Germany and Japan turned out well. Average out the good investments with the bad and overall I think America does right when helping other nations get back on their feet and be a productive member in the world community.

[lordtiberius]

What a bunch of nonsense....sure forget all your internal problems in the states and go focus on a country on a continent across the ocean.     Why don't YOU worry about YOURSELF, your country,  and not try to tell everybody else what they need to be concerned about?   You have the option to go fight if you feel so strongly about it, as does anybody else....but again from your reclining chair you try to call OTHERS to action. 


Fathertime!

Who are you exactly to tell anyone what to do with their time?  He loves Ukraine.  You love yourself