Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel peace prize

[calmissile]

Hi Cal,
I pretty much agree with you 100%. However if you take the time to research in depth about the whistelblowing from within the NSA, I think you will find that it isn't about the monitoring or the need for it.

OK,  I don't have time to research it again now.  I don't recall what point you are making, but you might be correct.  At any rate, if we have differences I consider you a gentelman.   

[AC]

How many lives did Snowden save doing what he did? Zero How many lives did he cost? Likely over 100

He's a rat.  Life in prison would be generous and a waste of the taxpayers money.  Hang him or shoot him once he's convicted.  Смерть шпионам.

[AC]

We totally agree on the gradual loss of our liberties.  Not only have I read 1984 many times, I bought copies to give to my liberal/progressive friends.

Your feelings for Snowden are misguided.  We probably agree on the issues of the Benghazi cover-up, the IRS Scandal and many others.

Since you seem to be very uneducated about military and defense issues, you appear to lack the knowledge that nearly every country has intelligence gathering and the necessity of it going back centuries. 

Actually thousands of years would be accurate.  Military scouts and others working for the other side were typically tortured to gain their knowledge and then killed. 

[calmissile]

BillyB,

Thanks for posting the link to the Form SF312 that all have to sign to receive a security clearance.  I skipped over it without seeing your link.

Here is a portion of SF-312 that Snowden would have to sign.  Whether you consider it an oath or not is not important.  You are swearing that you will comply with the contents of the document.

"4. I have been advised that any breach of this Agreement may result in the termination of any security clearances I hold; removal from any position of special confidence and trust requiring such clearances; or termination of my employment or other relationships with the Departments or Agencies that granted my security clearance or clearances. In addition, I have been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of United States criminal laws, including the provisions of sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, title 18, United States Code; *the provisions of section 783(b}, title 50, United States Code; and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to prosecute me for any statutory violation.

12. I have read this Agreement carefully and my questions, if any, have been answered. I acknowledge that the briefing officer has made available to me the Executive Order and statutes referenced in this agreement and its implementing regulation (32 CFR Part 2001 , section 2001 .80(d)(2) ) so that I may read them at this time, if I so choose "

[AC]

BillyB,

Thanks for posting the link to the Form SF312 that all have to sign to receive a security clearance.  I skipped over it without seeing your link.

Here is a portion of SF-312 that Snowden would have to sign.  Whether you consider it an oath or not is not important.  You are swearing that you will comply with the contents of the document.

"4. I have been advised that any breach of this Agreement may result in the termination of any security clearances I hold; removal from any position of special confidence and trust requiring such clearances; or termination of my employment or other relationships with the Departments or Agencies that granted my security clearance or clearances. In addition, I have been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of United States criminal laws, including the provisions of sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, title 18, United States Code; *the provisions of section 783(b}, title 50, United States Code; and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to prosecute me for any statutory violation.

12. I have read this Agreement carefully and my questions, if any, have been answered. I acknowledge that the briefing officer has made available to me the Executive Order and statutes referenced in this agreement and its implementing regulation (32 CFR Part 2001 , section 2001 .80(d)(2) ) so that I may read them at this time, if I so choose "

It's common sense that he had to sign a form of this sort, and that all the particular details were spelled out to him.  As BillyB also wrote, sometimes those who have clearance may not agree with everything their country does, or even what their particular work involves; yet they do not give US secrets to our enemies.

He knew what he did was wrong and again Billy already touched on it; he's now trying to get the law changed prior to coming home.  Really he has no home, and when Russia no longer feels it's to their best interest to offer him safe haven -- he will be coming back here to face trial.

[Muzh]

The guy stood up for what he believed in knowing what would/could happen to him.   He will always be looking behind his back wondering.  Hardly a fame type of thing.

And somehow you think this is a way to live with your own conscience?


Sorry, but the dick is a coward.

[Muzh]

Obama should be impeached!  We will see what happens after the mid-term elections.

Why? Because he has a severe suntan?


Where we're you when Georgy Porgy was trampling all over the constitution, huh? Did you asked for his balls to be chopped off?


Nah. He was just lily white and conservative like you, right?

[Muzh]

He should be arraigned and tried in a court of law.  Then either found innocent or guilty.  If guilty he should be sentenced.  If innocent he is set free.
No reason to ask for a fair trial.  It is assumed to be fair by the laws under which you are charged.   It is often the guilty that make an issue about a 'fair' trial because they know a 'fair' trial under the law will find them guilty.

Wrong on both counts.


First, there is the ALLEGED crime. Otherwise, the police has already found the suspect guilty as charged. A trial will decide if the accused is guilty or NOT guilty. They will never say he is innocent.


And asking for a fair trial, well, how much money can you spend on a GREAT lawyer?

[Muzh]

Dude, I am not the one that needs a woman that can't speak the same language as moi.   Actually it looks stupid but looking over your history it may be a smart thing.


You mean like the US gov killing Americans in Pakistan via drone attacks without bringing them back for trial?


What is funny is Snowden, who happens to know what is really going on, is asking for a fair trial.  You, who knows squat, just automatically thinks he will get a fair trial.  Nothing like sheep.

LMFAO


Boy, the smell of hypocrisy just hit me here in Imperia, Italy.


So, I'm the one hurling insults for no reason while you are in your pew doing the rosary, eh?


Hypocrite.

[LiveFromUkraine]

LMFAO


Boy, the smell of hypocrisy just hit me here in Imperia, Italy.


So, I'm the one hurling insults for no reason while you are in your pew doing the rosary, eh?


Hypocrite.

Time for your diaper change gramps?  That apple sauce must go right through you.   You have proven again how selective your reading is.  Typical Mush.

[Muzh]

Time for your diaper change gramps?  That apple sauce must go right through you.   You have proven again how selective your reading is.  Typical Mush.

 


Is that it?


Point is you just typed in big letters LIVEFROMUKRAINE IS A BIG HYPOCRITE.


Heh, live with it sweetie.


Just love getting under your skin. Heh heh heh

[LiveFromUkraine]

Is that it?


Point is you just typed in big letters LIVEFROMUKRAINE IS A BIG HYPOCRITE.


Heh, live with it sweetie.


Just love getting under your skin. Heh heh heh

Delusions of grandeur again?  Like that young girl you worked with back in teh 50's who you thought was hot for you.  haha  Jesus, you are the typical old dude that keeps telling the same story over and over again. 


As usual, you selectively take out of context a post and try to twist it.  That comment was based on being called stupid and pointing out that I am not the one who needs a women who doesn't speak the same lingo. 


Typical behavior from gramps.  So, how about that chick you worked with back in the 50's.  haha  Must suck having to rely on the same story over and over again to be relevant.

[Muzh]

Nightie night babe, it's late here in the Riviera and I'm hitting the sack with my honey. Be gentle to your hand, please.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Nightie night babe, it's late here in the Riviera and I'm hitting the sack with my honey. Be gentle to your hand, please.

Oh, how cute, calling the nurse who takes care of your bed pan honey.  You old playa, you.

[calmissile]

Why? Because he has a severe suntan?


Where we're you when Georgy Porgy was trampling all over the constitution, huh? Did you asked for his balls to be chopped off?


Nah. He was just lily white and conservative like you, right?

Nope, he should have had the same treatment.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Nope, he should have had the same treatment.

Eh, it's never Obama's fault.  It was all Bush and if you think Obama did something wrong you are racist.  It's like Bush has been president for 4 terms now.

[fathertime]

Ever since 9/11, we knew our government were listening more on phone calls. Snowden didn't even try to go through proper channels. If he did, I'm sure nobody would listen to him. Snowden is a lone wolf not because he's a good guy, but an oddball who didn't honor his contract. There are thousands of people who worked at various intelligence agencies past and present. Snowden is an angel? Everybody else is evil for keeping a secret? I don't think so. How many lives did Snowden save doing what he did? How many lives did he cost?

You are using words such as 'angel' and 'evil'...I don't think Snowden has to be an 'angel' to do what he did.  I don't think others that didn't report had to be 'evil'....this is mislabeling on your part.   


Snowden DID NOT honor his contract and I'm glad he didn't.  There is no saying how many lives he has saved/cost.  In the long run, I don't want our govt running amok anymore than they already are.  Someday our govt. through technology, meddling, and arrogance will likely get us in a large war, and millions of lives will be lost, so saving a dozen here and there isn't going to matter very much in that context.  Jamming sticks in their spokes is a good thing.     

Although I don't like Obama and he's been deceptive many times, I trust the American government on keeping Americans safe more than Snowden.

I trust the American govt will keep the wealthy and big business as protected as they can, we the people are a distant second nowadays.  Snowden doesn't figure in on the 'keeping us safe' part of this, he exposed what he wanted to expose and a lot of us like that he did.  I can also understand that a lot of people didn't.

It's all over the internet. Snowden wants to come home but first he wants the laws to change in his favor before doing so.

I don't believe Snowden believes he can come 'home'.  He knows there is no life here for him.  He must be doing it to keep in the spotlight, which benefits him and potentially harms our programs. 


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

I agree with FT on all points except that he should come home.  I think he can beat Obama in Court.  If he dies in US Custody, who win wins?

[Muzh]

Nope, he should have had the same treatment.

Well, I'm glad to hear that. My apologies.


Let's be clear. I'm not defending our POTUS, I think he is not an effective one.

[Muzh]

Oh, how cute, calling the nurse who takes care of your bed pan honey.  You old playa, you.

LMAO


Not a nurse, mind you. A doctor. I thought you knew that. Must be the froth from your mouth that cannot let you see straight.


Heh heh

[Anotherkiwi]

...I'm not defending our POTUS, I think he is not an effective one.

That has to be the mildest criticism of Mr Obama that has ever been expressed on this forum!

[Muzh]

That has to be the mildest criticism of Mr Obama that has ever been expressed on this forum!

Translation: He sucks big time. 

[Muzh]

Snowden DID NOT honor his contract and I'm glad he didn't.  There is no saying how many lives he has saved/cost.  In the long run, I don't want our govt running amok anymore than they already are.  Someday our govt. through technology, meddling, and arrogance will likely get us in a large war, and millions of lives will be lost, so saving a dozen here and there isn't going to matter very much in that context.  Jamming sticks in their spokes is a good thing.


Fathertime!

Thank god you are just an ignorant fool without any power to do as you say. It is people like you, with their indifference to world events that give rise to armed conflicts.


Why don't you crawl back to your shell and tweedle your thumbs.

[fathertime]

Thank god you are just an ignorant fool without any power to do as you say. It is people like you, with their indifference to world events that give rise to armed conflicts.


Why don't you crawl back to your shell and tweedle your thumbs.

No, I don't make policy, BUT it is nice to get you all shook up because of my views!   


 I think you have mistaken 'indifference' with 'instigate' (armed conflicts)...but no matter you will probably be dead by the time we have to face the music. 


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

No, I don't make policy, BUT it is nice to get you all shook up because of my views!   

I don't think he is all shook up from your views, FT.  More than likely he tried to time his honey pot just right and took too much viagra only to lose out to an episode of Jeopardy.  All the blood rushing with only Alex Trebeck for $100 to show for it.  haha