Why Ukrainians and Russians will never be Brothers

[Boethius]

Hey Doll, You got a lot of reaction from the regulars on this one!


It is NO coincidence that a US citizen is now deeply involved with the Ukraine finance.  US citizens like Biden's cocaine-addled son have also been appointed.  Clearly Russia doesn't want to see their aggressive rival pulling the strings on their doorstep, so they are doing what they feel they must, and appointments like this further their cause.  It would appear that Ukraine is destined to be lorded over as usual, and the US would like to take on the role of 'lord' (behind the scenes as much as possible).   


Fathertime!

1.  The "US citizen" is a diaspora Ukrainian who has lived in Ukraine for two decades.  She is giving up her American citizenship.


2.  The EU, not the US, wants greater transparency and less corruption in Ukraine's finances.  What better way to achieve that than to appoint someone not beholden to the Ukrainian oligarchic power structure?


3.  The other "foreigners" appointed are Lithuanian and Georgian nationals.  Are their governments also "deeply involved" in Ukraine, "pulling the strings"?


4.  The appointment of foreigners is Poroshenko's prerogative, and it has been done partially for domestic political purposes vis a vis his relationship with Yatseniuk.

[Boethius]

Oh and, even if I believed the US is "ruling" Ukraine (which I don't), as I stated elsewhere previously, let's see - aligned either with an authoritarian regime in a country which, throughout its history, has exiled, jailed and/or executed its writers, poets, journalists, composers, and any dissident who dared to question official policies, or a country where freedom of expression is constitutionally enshrined, and even, in some corners, celebrated, albeit imperfectly.  Added to that, the former is a country which, during much of its history, has marginalized Ukrainians, suppressing their culture, language, and religions. 

What to to choose, what to choose.       Yup.  That's a tough one.

[Muzh]

Oh and, even if I believed the US is "ruling" Ukraine (which I don't), as I stated elsewhere previously, let's see - aligned either with an authoritarian regime in a country which, throughout its history, has exiled, jailed and/or executed its writers, poets, journalists, composers, and any dissident who dared to question official policies, or a country where freedom of expression is constitutionally enshrined, and even, in some corners, celebrated, albeit imperfectly.  Added to that, the former is a country which, during much of its history, has marginalized Ukrainians, suppressing their culture, language, and religions. 

What to to choose, what to choose.       Yup.  That's a tough one.

You are overestimating the serf mentality. 

[sleepycat]

Or for the simpletons out there...

Who should Ukraine align with:
Option 1) A country ruled by a midget, has a national currency that is almost worthless, and is fast becoming a vassal state to China.
Option 2) Any other country.

Agree with Boe, tough call.

[fathertime]

Of course anyone can make an argument based on tidbits of information.  Nevertheless it can't be said that Russia isn't reacting for good reason (from their POV).  They knew all along the USA was going to attempt to exert more influence in the region and they are going to do what they have to do to minimize it. 

Fathertime!

[Boethius]

The US allegedly "exerted its influence" by "creating" the Orange Revolution, and "installing" Yushchenko, husband of reputed CIA agent/former state department power broker (take your pick)  Kateryna Chumachenko Yushchenko, in power.  Yet at that time, there was no war in Donbas, Russia was still Ukraine's largest trading partner (both exports and imports), most politicians and businessmen spoke Russian in their daily lives, and Russia secured a long term lease for its Black Sea fleet.  No lives were lost, there was no war, and Russians managed to carry on quite well.

This time around, Ukrainians chose the EU.  The last time I checked, the US was not part of the EU.

[fathertime]

The US allegedly "exerted its influence" leading to the installation of Yushchenko in power.  Yet at that time, there was no war in Donbas, Russia was still Ukraine's largest trade partner (both exports and imports), most politicians and businessmen spoke Russian in their daily lives, and Russia secured a long term lease for its Black Sea fleet.  No lives were lost, there was no war, and Russians managed to carry on quite well.


This time around, Ukrainians chose the EU.  The last time I checked, the US was not part of the EU.

You seem to be trying to make the case that the US is just an innocent bystander that has no long-term interest in the region or to see Russia a little weaker.  I don't agree.

Fathertime!

[Doll]

 


1.  The "US citizen" is a diaspora Ukrainian who has lived in Ukraine for two decades.  She is giving up her American citizenship.


  .

Can't wait 

[Muzh]

You seem to be trying to make the case that the US is just an innocent bystander that has no long-term interest in the region or to see Russia a little weaker.  I don't agree.

Fathertime!

You got one of those two right.

[Doll]

Hey Doll, You got a lot of reaction from the regulars on this one!


It is NO coincidence that a US citizen is now deeply involved with the Ukraine finance.   
 

None!

[Doll]

Oh, but it was okay for Ukraine to have a Prime Minister who was born in Russia, right?

Арсе́ний Петро́вич Яценю́к (укр. Арсеній Петрович Яценюк; родился 22 мая 1974, Черновцы)
FYI, in 1974 the country was the SOVIET UNION.
Another piece of education-Черновцы is Ukraine

[Boethius]

He meant Azarov, former PM of Ukraine, born in Russia, and spoke no Ukrainian.

[Belvis]

Catherine (II) the Great was not born in Russia.

Empress Catherine I was Polish/Swedish.

Empress Maria Alexandrovna, wife of Alexander II was German born. Empress consort Alexandra was German born.

Joseph Stalin, Georgian.

Nikita Khrushchev, Ukrainian.

I'd like to correct Mendy though it's not too important for current pointless discussing.

Empress Catherine I, wife of Peter the Great  was from Baltic peoples, there is no more accurate information about her background.

Empress Catherine (II) the Great is natural German.

Nikita Khrushchev was Russian. 
Leonid Brezhnev was Ukrainian.

[Doll]

He meant Azarov, former PM of Ukraine, born in Russia, and spoke no Ukrainian.

Azarov was born in the country called THE SOVIET UNION , by the time he was PM he had had his Ukrainian Citizenship for a long time

[Doll]

Khrushchev was born on April 15, 1894,[1] in Kalinovka,[2] a village in what is now Russia's Kursk Oblast, near the present Ukrainian border.

[Boethius]

Azarov was born in the country called THE SOVIET UNION , by the time he was PM he had had his Ukrainian Citizenship for a long time

It still doesn't make him a Ukrainian. 
Belvis, Brezhnev was born in Ukraine, but was not ethnically Ukrainian.
 
 
 
 

[Doll]

Яресько сама говорит, что «фонд WNISEF финансировался Правительством США. Мы начали инвестировать в Украину и Модову в 1995 году, вложили $ 122 млн в течение последних 12 лет в 30 предприятий в различных отраслях. Основываясь на способности нашей команды успешно действовать в этой бизнес-среде, нашей репутации и перспективной экономической среде Украины, мы основали Horizon Capital в 2006 году».
Читать далее: http://ukraina.ru/analytics/20141206/1011404991.html

[Boethius]

So what?  The US government provides aid to numerous countries, and has for well over half a century.   

[Doll]

О том, что произошло, когда Яресько ушла из Госдепартамента, чтобы войти в спонсируемый правительством США бизнес на Украине, можно узнать из документов, поданных ее бывшим мужем в суд штата Делавер в 2012 и 2013 годах. Их этих документов понятно, что без Фиглуса и правительства США, Яресько не имела бы инвестиционного бизнеса в Украине. Деньги для финансирования бизнеса и партнерских ставок, оказывается, были предоставлены Фиглусу и Яресько из Вашингтона.
Читать далее: http://ukraina.ru/analytics/20141206/1011404991.html

[Doll]

So what?  The US government provides aid to numerous countries, and has for well over half a century.   

Here we go!!!!

[Boethius]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18417.msg382831#msg382831

Do you believe all those gas deals pursuant to which Russia cut the cost of gas supplied to Ukraine was done out of the kindness of the Russian government?  Or that Russia purchasing goods from the Donbas area which no one in the EU would touch was also done out of the goodness of the Russian soul?

Do you believe all those supplies of Russian gas to Firtash were done because the Russians believed he was a good guy?
 
 
 

[Boethius]

Khrushchev was born on April 15, 1894,[1] in Kalinovka,[2] a village in what is now Russia's Kursk Oblast, near the present Ukrainian border.

So?  Belvis is correct, he was not ethnically Ukrainian.
 

[AC]

Oh and, even if I believed the US is "ruling" Ukraine (which I don't), as I stated elsewhere previously, let's see - aligned either with an authoritarian regime in a country which, throughout its history, has exiled, jailed and/or executed its writers, poets, journalists, composers, and any dissident who dared to question official policies, or a country where freedom of expression is constitutionally enshrined, and even, in some corners, celebrated, albeit imperfectly.  Added to that, the former is a country which, during much of its history, has marginalized Ukrainians, suppressing their culture, language, and religions. 

What to to choose, what to choose.       Yup.  That's a tough one.

 

[AC]

Azarov was born in the country called THE SOVIET UNION , by the time he was PM he had had his Ukrainian Citizenship for a long time

The mentality of such a silly statement shows that like Putin you long for a return of the Soviet Union.   

[Boethius]

Doll is right that Azarov was a Ukrainian citizen, with all the rights that afforded him.  However, Jaresko is now a citizen of Ukraine, and she has lived in Ukraine longer than did Azarov when he was first elected to government.