Reflecting on our K-1 period

[BC]

Bruno,

I interpreted PG's statement to say that he has not 'lived with' a woman, as in long term live-in relationship..  We're not talking marriage.

[jb]

Dan wrote:

and I expect no unnecessary bashing of ANYONE

I don't see where anyone engaged in "unnecessary bashing" here.  Judging from Photoguy's last message he is still navigating his rudderless boat upon a vast sea of ignorance, thus even necessary bashing will serve no purpose.

Of course, Clyde is a horse of a different color.

[BC]

EDIT : "I want to have a full head of hair" is something possible if you have the needed money... now, it is possible to implant new hair on a bowling ball ( human head without hair )

Bruno.. I don't care how 'polished' my look is.. you won't find my pubes 'up there' at any price.. LOL

[Bruno]

I interpreted PG's statement to say that he has not 'lived with' a woman, as in long term live-in relationship..  We're not talking marriage.

OK, i have interpreted the PG statement other... we are all here interpreting a limited information... only Doug know the full story of his own life and only him know if he have the relationship skill ( maybe )...

[Leslie]

Dan,

I think allowing the topic starter to lock a topic is a very sensible idea but the topic starter should NOT be allowed to unlock the topic once he has locked it.  I also think allowing someone to delete their thread(s) is a very bad idea.  IMHO you should not have allowed Doug to delete his original trip report but that is history now...

Unless you lock this thread it will turn into a 15-20 page monster just like all the previous ones. 

However this arguement may well continue in the "no holds barred" section where I think it should be left to burn out. 

[Son of Clyde]

Of course, Clyde is a horse of a different color.

You just had to get that one in.
No, pal I could have ended up in a worse scenerio than Doug.
I support Doug because I think he is a good guy. We are both middle aged guys  having never been married. You, KenC, Leslie and a few others are soooo pissed we did not heed your manly advice and give up.

[Bruce]

Racer X -  I am glad you are not one of the sunshine boys or pickle barrel boys.  This board needs independent thinkers and contrary well thought out, well written opinions.  However, in this particular case I think you should have termed the vast majority of posters "shooting fish in a barrel boys," because thats how easy it was for any of the experienced posters to see how this would turn out.  I sincerely believe Doug got off lucky.  He did not marry her and she returned to Ukraine.  I hope Doug learned from this experience - and I definitely believe he would do things alot differently if he pursued a women from the FSU again. Though he only will list character traits for newbies as advice, it is a significant step in the right direction for him.  Doug, I do sincerely feel for you and sincerely hope you have learned from what must have been extremely trying for you - though I am not yet sure you get enough of where you really should get to yet. 

Top ten things for the average guy to glean from Doug's experience:

1.  Do not fall in love with a photo, letters or phone calls prior to meeting the woman in person.
2.  Do not meet only one woman.
3.  Use your own interpreter whenever possible.
4.  Meet a girl's immediate family whenever possible prior to a k-1.
5.  Meet a girl in her home city whenever possible prior to a k-1.
6.  Do not do a k-1 as a trial period / 90 day date.
7.  Consumate your relationship whenever possible prior to filing a k-1.
8.  *Ensure you can properly communicate with your fiance prior to filing a k-1 visa.
9.  Have the time and resources to devote to your fiance when she arrives in the USA and for the immediate time afterwards depending upon your personal situation.
10.  Listen to the advice given by experienced posters on this board, especially when it is overwhelming advice.

[KenC]

You just had to get that one in.
No, pal I could have ended up in a worse scenerio than Doug.
I support Doug because I think he is a good guy. We are both middle aged guys  having never been married. You, KenC, Leslie and a few others are soooo pissed we did not heed your manly advice and give up.

Clyde,
You are so far off with your comment here that it is comical. To a man, no one here hoped for failure for you or Doug. Much to the contrary, everyone was trying to guide two very inexperienced men (you & Doug) into the best possible position for success. The idea that anyone wanted you two to give up is ludicrous. You can dislike our methods or our tone in delivering our advice, but you cannot question that we were trying to help you two to succeed.

It is just frustrating when I sit here and see inexperienced men completely disregard sage advice and continue to make rookie mistakes. To your credit, you have succeeded so far, but that alone does not mean you could have done things easier or with less stress. Having a successful marriage is a difficult task for anyone, but a marriage to a foreign woman is even more difficult. Why do it the hard way? No one was trying to booby trap you or Doug in any way. And no one was trying to get you or Doug to give up. You are very wrong, if you think that.
KenC

[KenC]

Pushing the envelope too far

I guess it is time to summarize things here as I know this thread will close soon. I attempted to do it earlier with some conclusions that could be gleaned from Photoguy's history. Bruce also did a nice recap. But there is an overall conclusion that I think we both missed. Marrying a foreign woman is a very risky deal in of itself. As in any high risk venture, you have to take certain chances and that is understood from the beginning. Anyone who gets involved with this process has to be considered as a risk taker for sure. But there comes a time when being a risk taker becomes a detriment to the ultimate goal, which should be a successful and happy marriage.

Photoguy was and is the ultimate "nice guy." Everyone here wished success for him. No one wanted him to fail or give up. His "risk taker" mentality just had no limits and in the end did him in. There is no way he can ever convince me that all he wanted was an extended 90 day date. Or that finding out that Larisa was not a lier or a thief is any type of success story. It is too bad that things didn't work out as planned because I sincerely think that Doug thought he had deep feelings for Larisa.

Taking unnecessary risks in this venture is just plain foolishness. And that is why the threads concerning Photo's actions brought about such volital and numerous posts. There are many members here that saw the errors of his ways and the unnecessary risks that he took. Then their was a faction here that just wanted to support him and cheer him on with whatever methods he choose to use. Who was right and who was wrong? I won't use the easy answer and say that the results prove that he should have employed some more conservative measures, because in truth, Larisa could have returned home under any circumstances. But I will say that if I am faced with a failed relationship, it would eat me up if I hadn't done everything possible to save it. It would haunt me to think if I had only done this or that, then maybe we would still be together. You can only cut so many corners until it catches up with you.

Many of the experienced posters here saw this coming very clearly. No one gets any joy from the outcome here. There was no malice involved with administering the advice given, maybe some frustration in his inability to see things clearly. I know I can have a clear conscious and say that I truly tried to help him to succeed as many others can too. I question if the guys that just cheered him on his errant path can say the same?
KenC

[Photo Guy]

I wish this topic had stayed locked. Now I have to defend
myself against untrue bull***t statements that mis-characterize who I am.
For example Andrewfin writes that I didn't have the time or money
for a second visit. Completely untrue. She talked me into coming to
the US. She was enthusiastic about seeing America. In retrospect,
our second meeting should have been in her home town. I admit to
that mistake.

The second mis-characterization, is the whole idea that
this sequence of events was something horrible. Haven't any of you
dated a woman and then broke up? Geesh. I admit that I love the
woman. Her emotions are more 'mixed' regarding me, with many factors affecting
her including bad health and her possessive parents. Another bull***t
statement is that I had fallen in love with a photo. A total crock.

I am tired of this crap. I relate my experiences for the good of
everyone, and I have to deal with character assassination? I have never
been married, so that's twisted into the idea that I'm a naive idiot
who just fell off the turnip truck.

I am glad I chose Larisa, and yes if I had followed jb's, KenC's and Anono's
advice, I would have discarded Larisa for a number of ridiculous reasons.
In that way, KenC was telling me to give up (on her, specifically)
Although it may have not worked out, I am happy I pursued Larisa and
spent time with her...   Yes, you can choose a woman who is not a challenge,
a woman who is in love with you from DAY 1 (or even DAY14), but in that case
you better beware of GCG's and ultra-desperate types.

Actually the goal should not be 'a successful and happy marriage', but
the goal should be to discover who she is. That process will take longer
than a few weeks. After that process(sometimes years), comes the 'happy marriage' goal.
If you discover that you are not right for each other, move on, look elsewhere.
You will have succeeded in discovering you are not right for each other.
That discovery process should not be underestimated and minimized in favor
of a view that only looks at marriage/success- separation/failure. That is way
too simple. The discovery/dating process often does not result in marriage
and that's actually okay, not some shameful failure, that opens us up to
demeaning put-downs from puffed-up authoritarians.