Invasion by Ukraine

[Misha]

Then we take Piter and give it back to Sweden, Kaliningrad back to the Germans, the Kuril Islands back to Japan, and reset the Russian-Chinese borders back to pre-1969. While at it, return the conquered Caucasus region back to Chechnya and Dagestan, etc. 

Yes, and let us not forget to return chunks of Karelia back to Finland, Ivangorod and neighboring territory to Estonia (the 1922 border that had been agreed to by the Soviet state)...

[Doll]

Yes, and let us not forget to return chunks of Karelia back to Finland, Ivangorod and neighboring territory to Estonia (the 1922 border that had been agreed to by the Soviet state)...

with Louisiana and New Mexico

[krimster2]

Doll,
   The dates 1945-1954 don’t change anything.  The Soviet Union (otherwise known as Moscow) set the borders between itself and countries it occupied at the end of WWII.   How can you call these actions by Moscow a “Ukrainian invasion” if it was Moscow that decided what these borders should be?  If Moscow now wants to change their mind regarding their previously established and internationally recognized borders, can Finland, Germany, Poland and Japan do the same and take back their territory from Russia?  Explain why you find it acceptable for Russia to take territory from sovereign nations, but not the other way around?? 

[Doll]

The Soviet Union (otherwise known as Moscow)

[Doll]

?  Explain why you find it acceptable for Russia to take territory from sovereign nations, but not the other way around??

19 февраля 1954 года Президиум Верховного Совета СССР издал Указ «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР». 26 апреля того же года Верховный Совет СССР законом «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР» утвердил указ своего Президиума и внес соответствующие изменения в статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР[8] (Указ от 19 февраля и закон от 26 апреля подписал председатель Президиума Верховного Совета СССР К. Е. Ворошилов). При этом не учитывалось волеизъявление населения Крыма, так как референдумы не проводились.

[krimster2]

Doll,
The United States aquired Louisana through the Louisiana Purchase, a treaty mutually agreed to by the US and France. it acquired New Mexico through the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, also mutually agreed to by Mexico and the US. No Little Green Men were involved.  So in both cases the land was acquired through a legal process, the only legal process on Crimea was done in 1954 and gave the territory to Ukraine, can you see the difference?

[Doll]

Doll,
The United States aquired Louisana through the Louisiana Purchase, a treaty mutually agreed to by the US and France. it acquired New Mexico through the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, also mutually agreed to by Mexico and the US. No Little Green Men were involved.  So in both cases the land was acquired through a legal process, the only legal process on Crimea was done in 1954 and gave the territory to Ukraine, can you see the difference?

How many times can I post it?
19 февраля 1954 года Президиум Верховного Совета СССР издал Указ «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР». 26 апреля того же года Верховный Совет СССР законом «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР» утвердил указ своего Президиума и внес соответствующие изменения в статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР[8] (Указ от 19 февраля и закон от 26 апреля подписал председатель Президиума Верховного Совета СССР К. Е. Ворошилов). При этом не учитывалось волеизъявление населения Крыма, так как референдумы не проводились.

[krimster2]

Doll,
Please tell me anything done by the Soviet Union that was "done according to the will of the people"?  Was the holodomor the will of the people, were the gulags the will of the people, were the collectives the will of the people?  Since the majority of the people in Ukraine want to be independent from Russia, remember the 90% vote in 1991 to become independent, why won't Russia respect the will of the Ukrainian people?

I think you know why...

[sleepycat]

How many times can I post it?
19 февраля 1954 года Президиум Верховного Совета СССР издал Указ «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР». 26 апреля того же года Верховный Совет СССР законом «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР» утвердил указ своего Президиума и внес соответствующие изменения в статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР[8] (Указ от 19 февраля и закон от 26 апреля подписал председатель Президиума Верховного Совета СССР К. Е. Ворошилов). При этом не учитывалось волеизъявление населения Крыма, так как референдумы не проводились.

How many times can you not read the RWD TOS?

"Rules of Conduct

The 'official' language is of this site is English. The vast majority of our board members are literate in English, hence, posts and communications are expected to be in English. "

STOP POSTING IN SOME GIBBERISH FOREIGN LANGUAGE!!!

[Doll]

4 сентября 1991 года чрезвычайная сессия Верховного совета Автономной Республики Крым приняла Декларацию о государственном суверенитете республики, где говорится о стремлении создать правовое демократическое государство в составе Украины[13].

1 декабря 1991 года на Всеукраинском референдуме жители Крыма участвовали в голосовании о независимости Украины. 54 % крымчан высказались за сохранение независимости Украины - государства-учредителя ООН. Однако при этом была нарушена статья 3 Закона СССР «О порядке решения вопросов, связанных с выходом союзной республики из СССР», согласно которой в Крымской АССР должны были провести отдельный (общекрымский) референдум по вопросу её пребывания в составе СССР или в составе выходящей союзной республики — Украинской ССР[14].

5 мая 1992 года Верховный Совет Автономной Республики Крым принял декларацию «Акт о провозглашении государственной самостоятельности Республики Крым»[15], но затем, под давлением Украины, отменил это решение. По воспоминанию президента Украины Кравчука в интервью, данном им украинской программе, на тот момент официальный Киев рассматривал возможность войны с республикой Крым.

В это же время и российский парламент проголосовал за отмену решения о передаче Крыма в состав УССР от 1954 года.

[Doll]

6 мая 1992 года седьмой сессией Верховного Совета Автономной Республики Крым была принята Конституция Республики Крым.[16] Эти документы противоречили тогдашнему законодательству Украины, они были отменены Верховной Радой Украины только 17 марта 1995 года после затяжных конфликтов в Крыму. Впоследствии ставший в июле 1994 года президентом Украины Леонид Кучма подписал ряд указов, которые определяли статус органов власти АРК.

Также 6 мая 1992 года решением Верховного Совета Автономной Республики Крым была введена должность президента Автономной Республики Крым[17]

В мае 1994 года ситуация накалилась, когда парламент Крыма проголосовал за восстановление конституции 1992 года, фактически сделав Крым независимым от Украины. Однако лидеры России и Украины предотвратили возникновение насилия.

[sleepycat]

However, if you accept your argument, that territory that was 60-100 years ago part of the territory of another nation may at any time be invaded/captured by its former owner, then perhaps Russia should consider its territory that was formally Polish, German, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc, because with your logic these countries have an undeniable right to reassert their control over their former territories.  As someone who has had extensive business travel in China, and has asked many mid-level Chinese officials the question regarding territory that was historically taken from China by Russia, all I can say is, “karma’s a bitch”, because one day, Russia will find that “what goes around, comes around”, good luck fighting the Chinese 50 years from now...

Best case scenario:   Invasion by stealth with Russia gradually becoming a vassal state to china.
Worst case scenario: Full blown invasion resulting in a giant Chairman Mao picture hanging on the walls of the Kremlin.

Better start learning how to speak Mandarin Doll...

[Doll]

sleepy, most likely   the US will be swallowed by Russia together with China

[AC]

sleepy, most likely   the US will be swallowed by Russia together with China

Keep dreaming your delusional fairy tales.  The Russian Army is obsolete against the American Army.  The USA could easily destroy Russian air defense systems within 48 hours.  Russia is not remotely capable of doing the same to us.  Unless Putin wants to resort to MAD it's not a contest.

Within 50 years large segments of Russia's far east will likely be back under Chinese control.

Until then take your wheelbarrow the next time you go back to Moscow.

Oil will be at $50 or less within a week.  Tick tock!

[Doll]

aC, есоnomically( and very soon)

[Doll]

How many times can you not read the RWD TOS?

"Rules of Conduct

The 'official' language is of this site is English. The vast majority of our board members are literate in English, hence, posts and communications are expected to be in English. "

STOP POSTING IN SOME GIBBERISH FOREIGN LANGUAGE!!!

i will post the language want

[Ludmila]

Best case scenario:   Invasion by stealth with Russia gradually becoming a vassal state to china.
Worst case scenario: Full blown invasion resulting in a giant Chairman Mao picture hanging on the walls of the Kremlin.

Better start learning how to speak Mandarin Doll...

Calm down, sleepy. Chinatowns are in America, not in Russia.
The number of the chinese population in USA-- more than 3 mln. See source and better give it a thought before crying over Russia's plight. In Russia 3-4  hundred thousands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatowns_in_the_United_States

[Ludmila]

This is good ol' USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatowns_in_the_United_States#mediaviewer/File:Brooklyn_Chinatown.png

[sleepycat]

i will post the language want

In that case I will also post what the leaders of the Chinese Politburo really think about that midget president across the border...

俄罗斯，在欧洲病夫

[krimster2]

Ludmila,

Chinese in America are Americans (unlike non-Russians in Russia) and other than their ancestry are identical in every respect to any other American.  This is why my ancestors left Ukraine when it was under Russian rule, in Russia they were discriminated against in every way because they were not ethnic Russians, I found it ironic that in Sevastopol there is a monument to the 500 Jews who died defending Sevastopol during the Crimean war, ironic because Jews were not allowed to live in Sevastopol at the time, because they weren’t ethnic Russians.   Why do you think Lenin called Russia “the prison house of nations”

Today my formally Russian family is totally American in every way, most of us served in the American military.  When I served, I served with Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, every kind of “white boy” you could possibly imagine, we were all Americans, we were all brothers and we were all ready to die to defend our country. 

If you contemplate a day when Russia might be capable of “swallowing” America, I would urge you to take a trip to Disneyland and listen to a puppet they have there...

“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.”

and it ain’t Mickey Mouse either!

[krimster2]

Doll,
On February 19, 1954 the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR. According to the Soviet Constitution (article 18), the borders of a republic within the Soviet Union could not be re-drawn without the agreement of the republic in question.

on the front page of Pravda, on February 27, 1954.[3] The full text of the decree was:

"Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet transferring the Crimea Province from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR.

Taking into account the integral character of the economy, the territorial proximity and the close economic and cultural ties between the Crimea Province and the Ukrainian SSR, the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet decrees:

To approve the joint presentation of the Presidium of the Russian SFSR Supreme Soviet and the Presidium of the Ukrainian SSR Supreme Soviet on the transfer of the Crimea Province from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR."

In 1997 Yeltsin and Kuchma signed the “Russian Ukrainian Friendship Treaty” which recognized the that the territory of Ukraine contained Crimea

Then one day little green men appeared and took Crimea by gun point

[mendeleyev]

Doll, the US regions you meant were not only done under treaty, but PAID for. As in US dollars, a commodity now coveted in Russia.

You can cry all you want, but the addition of Crimea was done by the government of the CCCP, not a single man. I think that you are intelligent enough to understand that, so it is embarrassing that others have to explain it to you. To reduce your argument to the absurd, if we followed your reasoning then we would have to invalidate all other actions and pronouncement by Soviet leaders to be worthless.

Shall we call into question everything done for decades? That is the only logical conclusion if you accept your own logic.

I can only reason that you feel Mr. Putin to be an idiot. You must think him to be very stupid, because frankly if he believed for all those years what he claims to understand now, then he, and I can only conclude so by your insistence, was a fool to allow Russian participation in the Budapest agreement, and even a greater fool to pay Kyiv rent all those decades.

Personally, I think of him in many ways, but do not think of him as a fool. I am sorry that you seem to disagree with me.

[Doll]

Кrimster, i saw thousands of  указов, that made no sense,
One more time- nobody asked Tatars then now they had their referendum

[mendeleyev]

Nobody asked the Tatars if they wanted to be exiled by force and driven from their homeland by the Soviets, either.

No Doll, and you know this: the Tatars refused to participate in the recent illegal referendum. That should tell you something.

[Ludmila]

Krymster, see my comments in upper case below ( it doesn't mean I'm shouting, simply for easier reading
 

Ludmila,

Chinese in America are Americans (unlike non-Russians in Russia)
ETHNICALLY NON-RUSSIANS ARE ROOSIYANE--CITIZENS FORMING THE NATION ( WHICH IS MULTI-ETHNICAL. FYI, A TATAR DOES NOT AND WILL NOT WANT TO BE CALLED A RUSSIAN, BUT HE WANTS TO BE CALLED ROSSIYANIN ( INDIVIDUAL WHO LIVES IN RUSSIA, IS A CITIZEN, ENJOYS ALL THE RIGHTS, BUT IS FREE TO SPEAK HIS MOTHER TONGUE AND OBSERVE HIS CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, CONSIDERING  RUSSIA  HIS MOTHERLAND)
 and other than their ancestry are identical in every respect to any other American.  This is why my ancestors left Ukraine when it was under Russian rule,
 WHEN? IN THE 19TH C, 20 TH, OR 21 C?
WERE YOUR ANCESTORS ETHNICAL JEWS ? IF YES, UKRAINIANS NOT ONLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST JEWS BUT TREATED THEM MORE CRUELLY THAN THE NAZI.
IF YOU'RE ETHNICAL UKRAINIAN, PLEASE, ELABORATE, WHEN NAMELY YOUR ANCESTERS LEFT, WHAT CITY OR REGION IN THE UKRAINE?
 found it ironic that in Sevastopol there is a monument to the 500 Jews who died defending Sevastopol during the Crimean war, ironic because Jews were not allowed to live in Sevastopol at the time, because they weren’t ethnic Russians.   Why do you think Lenin called Russia “the prison house of nations”
PLEASE, ELABORATE. WHAT'S YOUR POINT? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT JEWS OR IN GENERAL. IF IN GENERAL, I CAN GIVE YOU 1001 EXAMPLES OF ONE ETHNICITY DISCRIMINATING  AGAINST ANOTHER -- FOR STARTS : THE ENGLISH/THE SCOTTISH, THE ENGLISH/THE IRISH, THE SPANISH/BASQUES, TCHECS/SLOVACS, THE ENGLISH/FRENCH IN QUEBEC, ETC ETC
WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

Today my formally Russian family is totally American in every way,
THE FACT THAT YOU'RE BOASTING THAT YOU QUICKLY FORGOT YOUR ROOTS ISN'T COMMENDING AT ALL. IT ONLY TELLS ME OF YOUR LOW CULTURAL BACKGROUND. POSTERITY OF RUSSIAN PRINCES AND ARISTOCRACY RESIDING IN FRANCE, ENGLAND, USA SPEAK VERY GOOD RUSSIAN AND CHERISH AND KNOW THIER CULTURAL HERITAGE ( HISTORY,LITERATURE, ART, TRADITIONS). AND YES, THEY ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS OF RUSSIAN DESCENT.
most of us served in the American military. 
THIS TELL ME YOU'RE VERY POOR. IT WAS YOUR ONLY OPTION TO DO SOMETHING WITH YOURSELF. THIS IS THE USUAL PLIGHT OF THE FIRST AND SECOND WAVES OF IMMIGRANTS AND THE POOR STRATA OF THE  POLPULATION. NOT ONLY IN USA. IN FRANCE, TOO, FOR EXAMPLE ( THE SHORT CUT TO CITIZENSHIP). SMART PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH MEANS GO TO A UNIVERSITY. SORRY, BUT IT IS REALITY.
When I served, I served with Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, every kind of “white boy” you could possibly imagine, we were all Americans, we were all brothers and we were all ready to die to defend our country.
NOT ACCORDING TO OLIVER STONE AND HIS "4TH OF JULY" MASTERPIECE. SOMEHOW, OLIVER STONE WOULD BE A MORE PREFERABLE INTERLOCUTOR FOR ME TO DISCUSS THE STATE OF THINGS IN THE ARMY. IMMIGRANTS LIKE YOU AND YOUR EXTENDED FAMILY, ARE USUALLY  LESS INDEPENDENT THAN THE ESTABLISHED INDIVIDUALS. HENCE, THE BEHAVIOR, CHOICES, MINDSET. YOUR KIDS MAY BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT : THEY WILL BE SOMEWHAT BETTER ESTABLISHED AND WILL BE READY TO LOOK AT THE STATE OF THINGS SOMEWHAT CRITICALLY. YOU'RE STILL IN THE ASKING POSITION.
AS TO VARIOUS ETHNICITIES IN THE US ARMY  LOOK AT THE ARMY PICS OF THE RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES: RUSSIANS, UKRAINIANS BORN IN R, TATARS,  GEORGIANS, ARMINIANS, BASHKIRS, UDMURTS.
SO, DIDN'T GET YOUR POINT.   TRY TO EXPRESS YOUR POINT IN A MORE CLEAR CUT WAY, PLEASE.

If you contemplate a day when Russia might be capable of “swallowing” America,
I CAN SEE WHEN YOU IMMIGRATED TO US, YOU ENDED UP IN THE REDNECKLAND. IT'S A TYPICAL REDNECK MENTALITY, LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, LACK OF EDUCATION, INABILITY TO FORM ONE'S OWN OPINION  AND WORDING OF NOTIONS, BASED ON ANALYSIS, NOT PROPAGANDA, SHALLOWNESS.
 I would urge you to take a trip to Disneyland and listen to a puppet they have there...
THERE'RE SO MANY MINUTES IN MY PRECIOUS LIFE TO WASTE THEM WATCHING  WHAT REDNECKS WATCH. I BETTER WATCH SOMETHING MADE BY MEL GIBSON, NIKITA MIHALKOV, OLIVER STONE AND OTHER MATSERS. DISNEY IS FOR YOU.

“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.”

and it ain’t Mickey Mouse either!
YOUNG MAN, YOU'RE DEFINATELY NOT IN THE THEME. HAVE YOU HEARD OF ISIS? THEY ARE ASIANS, BY THE WAY. PAKISTAN, ALL MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES ARE ASIANS TOO. ISLAMIST TERRORISTS ARE ASIANS. NORTH KOREA IS AN ASIAN COUNTRY. WHAT ASIA DID YOU HAVE IN MIND.
AND FINALLY, THE COMMANDER YOU'RE MENTIONING ENDED VERY POORLY. COMPLETE DEFEAT IN RUSSIA AND A SHAMEFUL RETURN HOME.
AND ANOTHER IMPORTANT THING ( FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY). THERE'S A RUSSIAN SAYING : THOSE WHO COME TO RUSSIA WITH A SWORD SHALL DIE OF THAT VERY SWORD.
HAVE A NICE DAY AND EDUCATE YOURSELF.