Invasion by Ukraine

[krimster2]

My dearest Luda,
   Please allow me to respond to your points.  You make Russia sound like a delightful multi-ethnic street festival where everyone holds hands and sings “kum-by-ya” while skipping down the ulitsa.  According to the Center for Information and Analysis, a Moscow-based non-profit organization which monitors hate crimes (SOVA), anyone with "non-Slavic features" may be assaulted by racists in Russia.  The casualty rate for hate crimes in Russia for 2008 is extraordinarily high when compared to any other nation, just in Moscow there were (57 dead and 196 injured) and in St. Petersburg (15 dead and 38 injured). 
(here’s the link http://www.refworld.org/docid/4b7cee862d.html)

This is Russia darling.  Speaking of minorities, aren’t gay people usually considered minorities, how are they doing these days in Russia?  My own experience, for 3 years in Sevastopol, I had two attempted assaults for being a foreigner, how dare I speak English with my daughter in public, young Russian men find this very offensive when they consume Vodka

In the last 70 years Russia’s involvement in genocidal behavior is probably second only to Nazi Germany’s.  Holodomor killed 3 million Ukrainian ROOSIYANE, and over 100,000 Tatar ROOSIYANE died when they were deported.

A more complete list of ROOSIYANE killed by Russians in the 20th century would be:

Polish ROOSIYANE  (1939–1941 and 1944–1945)
Romanian ROOSIYANE (1941 and 1944–1953)
Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonian ROOSIYANE (1941 and 1945–1949)
Volga German ROOSIYANE (1941–1945)
Ingrian Finn ROOSIYANE (1929–1931 and 1935–1939)
Finnish people in Karelia ROOSIYANE (1940–1941, 1944)
Crimean Greek ROOSIYANE(1944)
Caucasus Greek ROOSIYANE (1949–50)
Kalmyks, Balkars, Karachays, Meskhetian Turks, Karapapaks, Far East Koreans (1937) Chechens and Ingushs ROOSIYANE (1944).

My goodness, that’s a whole lotta ROOSIYANE!
Let’s also not forget our dear Western Ukrainian and Jewish ROOSIYANE who also died by the tens of thousands.

“ WHEN? IN THE 19TH C, 20 TH, OR 21 C?”
late 19th, early 20th C

My family left because of pogroms that were initiated and spread by the Russian government and implemented by Russians before the Russian Revolution.  This has all been well documented, and should not require me to repeat the details here.

THE FACT THAT YOU'RE BOASTING THAT YOU QUICKLY FORGOT YOUR ROOTS ISN'T COMMENDING AT ALL. IT ONLY TELLS ME OF YOUR LOW CULTURAL BACKGROUND.

Yes, you’re right Luda, I forgot my cultural roots, so that’s why I lived there for 3 years about 150 miles from where my family immigrated.  I will mention my family’s low cultural background to my sister who graduated from Juillard and plays the Cello, my low cultural background is probably why I can only speak 3 languages, but please you don’t have to keep reminding me...  I’m an engineer, and so suffer from the usual technical myopia regarding the arts, my favorite poets are Rilke and Dylan Thomas, T.S. Elliot, and Yeats, what are yours?

POSTERITY OF RUSSIAN PRINCES AND ARISTOCRACY RESIDING IN FRANCE, ENGLAND, USA SPEAK VERY GOOD RUSSIAN AND CHERISH AND KNOW THIER CULTURAL HERITAGE

Well then you’ll be happy to know that I do speak Russian, OK, but not very good, it’s faded a bit since we left Crimea, but at home we are a bi-lingual family, and my children are fluent in both Russian and English. I also worked in Germany for two years at a TV factory and have a “working” knowledge of German.

most of us served in the American military.
THIS TELL ME YOU'RE VERY POOR. IT WAS YOUR ONLY OPTION TO DO SOMETHING WITH YOURSELF.

Hey Luda, what’s wrong with being poor, Russian oligarch’s are quite wealthy, are they better because they stole money from the Russian people?  I had parental consent so I joined the Army at age 17, had one of the highest scores ever seen on the AFQT in the Baltimore induction center, including according to one NCO the only perfect score on the electronics section, they interrogated me after the test because they thought I had somehow cheated, but I showed them my “General” Ham Radio License that I’d gotten at age 13, and the next thing I know I was being interviewed by the Army Security Agency, and that’s about all I can tell you, except that I did “Radio Research” for the US Army at an overseas location. After I got out of the service I did go to a University and got a B.S.E.E degree and a M.S.E.E degree all thanks to the GI bill (thanks Uncle Sam, who has been repaid many times for his generosity!)  During WWII, my father drove a Sherman Tank in France and lost toes because of frost bite in 1944, uncles in Navy and Air Corps.  My cousins served in the Marince Corps in Viet Nam and in the Air Calvary also in ‘Nam, their families weren’t poor either


NOT ACCORDING TO OLIVER STONE AND HIS "4TH OF JULY" MASTERPIECE. SOMEHOW, OLIVER STONE WOULD BE A MORE PREFERABLE INTERLOCUTOR FOR ME TO DISCUSS THE STATE OF THINGS IN THE ARMY.

Umm Luda, you do realize the movie was fiction right, you prefer fiction as opposed to factual details?

I CAN SEE WHEN YOU IMMIGRATED TO US, YOU ENDED UP IN THE REDNECKLAND. IT'S A TYPICAL REDNECK MENTALITY, LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, LACK OF EDUCATION, INABILITY TO FORM ONE'S OWN OPINION  AND WORDING OF NOTIONS, BASED ON ANALYSIS, NOT PROPAGANDA, SHALLOWNESS.

I’m sorry but did you just call the kettle chorney? hmmm....

THERE'RE SO MANY MINUTES IN MY PRECIOUS LIFE TO WASTE THEM WATCHING  WHAT REDNECKS WATCH. I BETTER WATCH SOMETHING MADE BY MEL GIBSON, NIKITA MIHALKOV, OLIVER STONE AND OTHER MATSERS. DISNEY IS FOR YOU

laughing my joppa off, Mel Gibson, a master, oh my....  the quotation I provided was by Abraham Lincoln, perhaps not quite the master as Mel Gibson to you, but to see it performed by Audio-Animatronics (and only at Disney) is a little better than watching Lethal Weapon IMHO

YOUNG MAN, YOU'RE DEFINATELY NOT IN THE THEME. HAVE YOU HEARD OF ISIS? THEY ARE ASIANS, BY THE WAY. PAKISTAN, ALL MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES ARE ASIANS TOO. ISLAMIST TERRORISTS ARE ASIANS. NORTH KOREA IS AN ASIAN COUNTRY. WHAT ASIA DID YOU HAVE IN MIND.

I have heard of ISIS, however I don’t consider myself much of an Egyptologist, but I do rather distinctly remember seeing several representations of her on a trip to Egypt in 2007 (only 4 hour from Simferopol), oh sorry the OTHER ISYS.  Well thanks for the geography and ethnography lesson!   My doctor is from Pakistan who is Asian, I used to date a woman from China who is Asian, one of my neighbors is from South Korea who is Asian, in my career in the computer industry I’ve worked with people from India, Pakistan, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Japan, China, Iran, Lebanon, who are all Asian and who all also happen to be American, and they’re no different from Germans, English, French, Italian, etc, this country is a country of immigrants, no one is ROOSIYANE here.

AND FINALLY, THE COMMANDER YOU'RE MENTIONING ENDED VERY POORLY.
Yup, he sure did, after burning Moscow, he was defeated by the Duke of Wellington at Waterloo.
 
THERE'S A RUSSIAN SAYING : THOSE WHO COME TO RUSSIA WITH A SWORD SHALL DIE OF THAT VERY SWORD.

I prefer the Russian saying, “Yalky Palky” 

[JayH]

For those who missed who the real nazis are--that would be the Russian  nazi filth murdering people in Ukraine

BREAKING: GRAD IMPACTS CAN BE HEARD AT #DONETSK LIVE FEED

http://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/550739992289771520

[krimster2]

I tried to skype in-laws in Crimea today, but it looks like the electricity was out all day, normally at 9 PM their time everyone on my contact list is on-line, but today everyone in Criema was off-line, that means no electricity....

[calmissile]

Oh really? Only Russians?
Wiki doesn't agree with you, though :
According to a 2007 report by the Anti-Defamation League, groups such as white power skinheads, neo-Nazis, and the Ku Klux Klan, have been growing more active in the United States in recent years, with a particular focus on opposing immigration, specifically from Mexico.^[2]

I am afraid you have a warped mind and you read way too much into what a few are saying.  What does your comment have to do with the topic.  Much of America is against the invasion by Mexicans.  We do not need or want a bunch more of poorly educated, unemployable immigrants draining our welfare system.  If we were smarter we would limit immigration to those immigrants that are in demand in high paid scientific and medical fields.  You have a problem with this?

[AC]

I am afraid you have a warped mind and you read way too much into what a few are saying.  What does your comment have to do with the topic.  Much of America is against the invasion by Mexicans.  We do not need or want a bunch more of poorly educated, unemployable immigrants draining our welfare system.  If we were smarter we would limit immigration to those immigrants that are in demand in high paid scientific and medical fields.  You have a problem with this?

For rhetorical and political reasons I'm sure she does.

[Boethius]

Ukrainian Canadian historian Serhiy Yekelchyk writes that during 1943 and 1944 an estimated 35,000 Polish civilians and an unknown number of Ukrainian civilians in the Volhynia and Chelm regions fell victim to mutual ethnic cleansing by the UPA and Polish insurgents.^[15] Niall Ferguson writes that around 80,000 Poles were murdered then by Ukrainian nationalists.^[16] Norman Davies in his book No Simple Victory: World War II in Europe, 1939-1945 puts the number of murdered Polish civilians at between 200,000 and 500,000, while Timothy Snyder writes that Ukrainian nationalists killed "between forty to sixty thousand Polish civilians in Volhynia in 1943".^[17]

Ludmilla, I don't need lessons on WWII from a wiki warrior.

I never stated there were not Ukrainian collaborators.  I merely pointed out that Ukrainians did not treat Jews worse than did the Nazis, which is what you inaccurately asserted.
 
BTW, collaboration in Ukraine was no higher than in any occupied country.  Over two million Ukrainians were taken as slave labourers to Nazi Germany.  Over ten million perished in WWII on Ukrainian soil.
 

[krimster2]

Dear Ludichka,
   Wars are nasty, civil wars are even nastier, but what the Nazis did to the Jews had nothing to do with war, please don’t try and conflate the Nazis and the UPA, as someone who has family buried in Ukraine, murdered by Nazis, I find your statements to be not only grossly incorrect but offensive to the memory of those who have perished. 

Rather than combing the internet to find some tenuous drivel written by someone no one has ever heard of to back up your Rodina homesickness (why are you even in the USA in the first place if it’s so terrible?)  let me tell you directly of my experiences in Ukraine (someone of Jewish ancestry), horrosho?

My ancestors came from two regions in Ukraine, Odessa and Nezhin/Borzna (near Chernigov).
I visited both places, I also visited Babi Yar in the eastern part of Kyiv, I came in from the main highway “Teliga”, the ravine of the old women is apparent even today, and I followed its winding path for maybe 300 meters or so.  On the spot where I stood, 35,000 Jews were murdered in two days by the Nazis in 1941.  During the course of the war the Nazis used the same location to murder an additional 100,000 or so Ukrainian nationalists and civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, communists, and gypsies were also murdered there, this is called “Istoriya” darling, and it ain’t an Oliver Stone movie starring Mel Gibson.

Moving on, I took a trip to Chernigov region, and visited the quaint town of Nezhin, known for its “agorchicki”, hmmm tasty!  In Nezhin, the Jews were collected by the Nazis next to a brick factory and they were all shot (about 500 or so).  Outside of Borzna, down a long country road that winds through a forest, there’s an empty field, and in the field there is a simple monument, dedicated to the memory of the 200 or so people who were executed there by the Nazis in 1941.  I have family buried in both places there.

Let’s move on shall we?  I took the train to Odessa a couple of times, thought it would be scenic traveling through the Crimean countryside feeling good from drinking Crimean wine and eating little sandwiches that my wife made.  It takes just a few hours to get to Odessa from Simferopol.
It turns out that at about the same time that one branch of my family was being murdered by the Nazis in Nezhin/Borzna, another branch of my family was being murdered in Odessa.  It just so happens you see that in just two days the Nazis shot or burned to death about 30,000 Jews. throughout the next year the remaining Jews were either shot by the Nazis or sent to Nazi concentration “Lagers” and died there.

Now even though the two branches of my family were hundreds of miles apart, and never knew each other, they did have something very important in common, they were brutally murdered by Nazis.

So here’s the thing Ludichka, your trying to conflate the Nazis who murdered my family, with the UPA, who did nothing at all to my family, is being repeated by Russia with its so called “Anti-Fascist” bill, the intent is the same, an attempt to try and smear Ukraine with a fabricated distorted story.  Ukraine, USA, Canada and the EU rejected this, and so do I and so should anyone reading this board who has a sense of decency and honor. 

[jone]

You know, I am absolutely astounded that a Russian nationalist could put forward an argument that Ukrainians killed their own or killed Polish Nationals.

Talk about selective memory!!!!!

Excuse me, but during the lead up to and during WWII, we can assume that Russian hands were clean and that Comrade Stalin was a grocery store clerk who waited on his people hand and foot.

The arrogance of the Russian mentality that has the audacity to forget the anti-Jewish pogroms, the forced relocation of Russian professional groups to Soviet Gulags, the Katyn Forest Massacre.  The number of Russians killed by Russians over the period leading up to and including WWII through gulag internment and executions are estimated at 8 million.  More than all the jews killed by the Germans.

So we have some idiot coming on here and inferring that Ukraine is fascist because of some estimates of UA killed locals and Poles (which while tragic) pales in comparison to the tragedy of the Russian people and the failure of the Russian inheritors to either learn from it or remember it (but are quick to point out others faults as a basis for invasion.)

Ukrainians are, by no means, faultless during the WWII years.  It was a hard time.  But to try and key in on Bandera and explain that their actions during that time is the basis for hatred in the present, which I believe the poster was attempting to do, demonstrates the idiocy that the Russian population now is experiencing.

[Chelseaboy]

I have already commented on the arrogance of the Russian posters on here..and subsequent postings by them merely re-affirm this.

However,this is the symptom of Russian schooling and an education system that conveniently ignores Russian atrocities..whilst preaching the evil of the west.

Their President hangs out with Nazi biker gangs,they were among the first Russians to enter Crimea after the illegal referendum..so it's no great surprise there are more Nazis living in Russia than in any other country in the World.

[calmissile]

"Lie" is only in your eyes, but you can't undo history. Crimea was Russian and it was just gifted after a glass of gorilka З перчиком
Can Obama gift California just like that?

Some of us would like him to.   
We will see what happens with the new Senate.

[Anotherkiwi]

I have already commented on the arrogance of the Russian posters on here..and subsequent postings by them merely re-affirm this.

Careful, Chelseaboy - Lily, for one, can never be accused of arrogance.  She has taken extreme care to avoid getting involved in any of the arguments relating to Putin and/or what is happening in Ukraine.

[Chelseaboy]

Lily is a nice lady,which is why she's adapted so well in her new home.

Because she clearly doesn't get involved in the arguments concerning Putin and Ukraine/the west i hadn't even thought about her as being one of the Russian posters i'm alluding to,at least four of them on here.

[Anotherkiwi]

Because she clearly doesn't get involved in the arguments concerning Putin and Ukraine/the west i hadn't even thought about her as being one of the Russian posters i'm alluding to,at least four of them on here.

Which is why you have to be very careful when you generalise!  Apart from them both being born in what was, at the time, the same country, you wouldn't lump ghost of moon goddess and justme100 in any category together, would you?

[Shadow]

Which is why you have to be very careful when you generalise!  Apart from them both being born in what was, at the time, the same country, you wouldn't lump ghost of moon goddess and justme100 in any category together, would you?

To summarize: only RW who support Putin are arrogant. All the others are sweet and innocent.

[Anotherkiwi]

To summarize: only RW who support Putin are arrogant. All the others are sweet and innocent.

Now you get it! 

[sleepycat]

Now you get it! 

I told you there's hope for Shadow! 

[JayH]

I told you there's hope for Shadow! 

No-- someone must have written it for him !!

[sleepycat]

No-- someone must have written it for him !!

Obviously the fascist Nazis from Kiev must have hacked his login and wrote that...

[AC]

To summarize: only RW who support Putin are arrogant. All the others are sweet and innocent.

Now you're finally catching on!   

[Shadow]

Just here to confuse you all.

[Chelseaboy]

Our political system stinks..none of them are worth voting for.

That video backs-up what i earlier said about the Tory party.

[Ludmila]

Ukraine[edit]Main article: Ukrainian collaborationism with the Axis powers"Hitler, the Liberator" says this Nazi propaganda poster written in Ukrainian.Nazi Orpo troops with local Ukrainian collaborationist Schutzmannschaft.Nazi Ukrainian personnel, 1943.Before World War II, the territory of modern Ukraine was divided primarily between the Ukrainian SSR of the Soviet Union and the Second Polish Republic. Smaller regions were administered by Romania and Czechoslovakia. Only the Soviet Union recognised Ukrainian autonomy, and large numbers of Ukrainians, particularly from the East, fought in the Red Army.
The negative impact of Soviet policies implemented in the 1930s was still fresh in the memory of Ukrainians. These included the Holodomor of 1933, the Great Terror, the persecution of intellectuals during the Great Purge of 1937–38, the massacre of Ukrainian intellectuals after the annexation of Western Ukraine from Poland in 1939, the introduction and implementation of collectivization.
As a result, the population of whole towns, cities and villages greeted the Germans as liberators, which helps explain the unprecedented rapid progress of the German forces in the occupation of Ukraine.
Even before the German invasion, the Nachtigall and Roland battalions were set up and trained as Ukrainian battalions in the Wehrmacht, and were part of the initial invading force.
With the change in regime ethnic Ukrainians were allowed and encouraged to work in administrative positions with the auxiliary police, post office, and other government structures, taking the place of Russians and Jews.[citation needed]
Soviet citizens had a page in their internal passports with information regarding their ethnicity, party status, military rank, service in the Soviet Army reserve, and information as to where they were to assemble in case of war. This document also contained markings regarding a citizens social status and reliability, (i.e., son of a kulak, party or Komsomol membership. Soviet POWs who were able to demonstrate Soviet unreliability, i.e., non membership in the CPSU, Komsomol or be of a discriminated class were quickly released from the POW camps. Often they were offered administrative and clerical positions or encouraged to join local police units. Some were trained as camp guards, while others were encouraged (in some cases forced) to enlist to fight in anti-Soviet military divisions.
During the period of occupation, Nazi-controlled Ukrainian newspaper Volhyn wrote that "The element that settled our cities (Jews) ... must disappear completely from our cities. The Jewish problem is already in the process of being solved.^[101]
There is evidence of some Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust.^[102] The auxiliary police in Kiev participated in rounding up of Jews who were directed to the Babi Yar massacre.
Ukrainians participated in crushing the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943^[103] and the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 where a mixed force of German SS troops, Russians, Cossacks, Azeris and Ukrainians, backed by German regular army units—killed up to 40,000 civilians.^[104][105]A badge used by personnel of the Ukrainian Liberation Army.The Ukrainian Liberation Army (Ukrainian: Українське Визвольне Військо, Ukrayins'ke Vyzvol'ne Viys'ko, UVV) was formed by the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer) in 1943 to collect the Ukrainian volunteer units that came into being during World War II. It was composed of former Ukrainian Hiwis, Ostbataillonen, and other Soviet prisoners of war (POWs) or volunteers.
Headed by Ukrainian general Mykhailo Omelianovych-Pavlenko, the unit grew to the size of 50,000 by 1944 and peaked at some 80,000 towards the end of the war.^[106] The army comprised a collection of units scattered all over Europe. In April 1945, remnants of the UVV were attached to the Ukrainian National Army, commanded by general Pavlo Shandruk.
In Zhytomyr on September 18, 1941, 3,145 Jews were murdered with the assistance of Ukrainian militia (Operational Report 106) and Korosten where Ukrainian militia rounded up 238 Jews for liquidation (Operational Report 80). At times the assistance was more active. Operational Report 88, for example, reports that on September 6, 1941, 1,107 Jewish adults were shot while the Ukrainian militia unit assisting them[clarification needed] liquidated 561 Jewish children and youths.^[107]
On April 28, 1943 German Command announced the estblishment of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division «Galizien».^[108] It has been accounted that approximately 83,000 people volunteered for service in the Division.^[109] The Division, was used in Anti-partisan operations in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. During the Brody offensive and Vienna Offensive to fight the Soviet forces. Those that survived surrendered to the Allies and the bulk emigrated to the West, primarily England, Australia and Canada.

[krimster2]

“The negative impact of Soviet policies implemented in the 1930s was still fresh in the memory of Ukrainians. These included the Holodomor of 1933, the Great Terror, the persecution of intellectuals during the Great Purge of 1937–38, the massacre of Ukrainian intellectuals after the annexation of Western Ukraine from Poland in 1939, the introduction and implementation of collectivization.”

Dear Ludichka,
   Can I copy the above section of your post for the intro of my new book, called “Why Every Ukrainian should hate Moscow”?  Thanks, it’s great...

[Ludmila]

“The negative impact of Soviet policies implemented in the 1930s was still fresh in the memory of Ukrainians. These included the Holodomor of 1933, the Great Terror, the persecution of intellectuals during the Great Purge of 1937–38, the massacre of Ukrainian intellectuals after the annexation of Western Ukraine from Poland in 1939, the introduction and implementation of collectivization.”

Dear Ludichka,
   Can I copy the above section of your post for the intro of my new book, called “Why Every Ukrainian should hate Moscow”?  Thanks, it’s great...

But now while many poor Russians are struggling with higher food prices due to the sanctions imposed by America, here you are having a good life - in America.  In effect YOU are now a “hiwi”....  how ironic, no???

NOW, private krymster. I am not Ludochka to YOU. You will have to work your way up to a GENERAL, or, at least, a colonel, before you may address me with that familiarity.
As to the word you have coined ( or heard somewhere in your getto), a Russia's top university graduate isn't supposed to have heard it or, even more so, to use it ( and isn't recommending to others ).
Although it's beyond my dignity  ( and rank for that matter  HA-HA HA!) to polemicise with a private, I cannot help noting that since you're talking about food not for the first time,  I began doubting whether they feed you well in the army. Besides, judging by your excitement,  it looks you haven't tried anything sweeter than a carrot.
AND NOW, YOU CAN BE AT EASE.

[Doll]

But now while many poor Russians are struggling with higher food prices due to the sanctions imposed by America, here you are having a good life - in America.  In effect YOU are now a “hiwi”....  how ironic, no???

NOW, private krymster. I am not Ludochka to YOU. You will have to work your way up to a GENERAL, or, at least, a colonel, before you may address me with that familiarity.
As to the word you have coined ( or heard somewhere in your getto), a Russia's top university graduate isn't supposed to have heard it or, even more so, to use it ( and isn't recommending to others ).
Although it's beyond my dignity  ( and rank for that matter  HA-HA HA!) to polemicise with a private, I cannot help noting that since you're talking about food not for the first time,  I began doubting whether they feed you well in the army. Besides, judging by your excitement,  it looks you haven't tried anything sweeter than a carrot.
AND NOW, YOU CAN BE AT EASE.