Invasion by Ukraine

[AC]

An election you aupport is legal and correct. An election you do not support is fraudulent and illegal.
Standard pattern throughout the world.

Not really.  The Crimea referendum was held at gunpoint and did not have the vote of the rest of the population of Ukraine, in violation of the Constitution of Ukraine, a sovereign country which Russia should GTF out of!

[Boethius]

Boe, you wanted links how Poroshenko  does not want peace and this link not from Russian newspapers?You have ithttp://www.dw.de/ukraine-preparing-for-war-despite-peace-talks/a-18172158

Thanks for the link, but, I don't think that proves your point, Doll.  It is more akin to Reagan's "trust but verify" statement.


Past negotiations have proven to Ukraine that wanting peace is not enough to secure it.  So, it is better to be prepared for the worst, and to arm oneself to the teeth, rather than go into negotiations with little militarily to back one up.

[Doll]

Boe, more?
Here
http://ruposters.ru/archives/10976

[AC]

Boe, more?
Here
http://ruposters.ru/archives/10976

Whatever Ukraine does it is on their sovereign territory.  Russia has no business being there and should Get The F*&^ Out!!!!

[Boethius]

Boe, more?
Here
http://ruposters.ru/archives/10976

That article basically says the same thing as the previous article.  But it still doesn't state that Poroshenko wants war.  He is just being realistic, and preparing for further battle.

So Ukraine has violated the Minsk agreements.  So what?  So have the terrorists, and so has Russia, which denies sending any aid to Donbas, despite the fact Russian weaponry has overrun the region, and Russian soldiers have died there. 

There won't be peace unless it is painful for both sides to continue.

[Boethius]

More on Russians fighting in Donbas.


http://www.newsweek.com/how-russians-are-sent-fight-ukraine-296937

[Doll]

Thanks for the link, but, I don't think that proves your point, Doll.  It is more akin to Reagan's "trust but verify" statement.


 

Really? You don't want your links to be verified", do you?

[Doll]

Whatever Ukraine does it is on their sovereign territory.  Russia has no business being there and   

Russia is not there.
Boe and I was talking of proving this Bundestag's member's words that Poroshenko doesn't want to end this war.

[Doll]

For Boe
http://www.belarus.regnum.ru/news/1882526.html

[Boethius]

None of your articles state what you claimed, Doll.


Meanwhile, a journalist held by the separatists gives his views -

As for the separatist commanders he spoke to, Cheremskiy says that, like the weapons, all of them came from Russia.[/size] "They made no secret of it themselves," he says. "On the contrary, they stressed that the future is with Russia and only with Russia." Cheremskiy now disagrees with this idea more than ever. Despite witnessing how deep separatist sympathies run among the local population, he firmly believes the rebel-held regions will eventually be brought back into Ukraine's fold. "As soon as the Russians leave, this whole system will collapse because there won't be any more weapons, money, or food," he says. "And with time, when they see that Ukrainians don't kill children or crucify babies, local residents will eventually change their minds."

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-journalist-cheremskiy-separatists/26779805.html

[AC]

Russia is not there.

Really?  You must be blind.


While he says his fighters are “volunteers” rather than mercenaries, they are paid salaries: from $1,000 per month for a low-ranking enlisted man to $2,000 to $4,000 for officers. Yefimov did not answer the reporter’s question about who pays the salaries.

Ukraine's government says more than 10,000 Russian mercenaries form the bulk of the Russian proxy forces that the Kremlin has used to sponsor the creation of the separatist "people's republics" in parts of Ukraine's Donetsk and Lugansk provinces. Many fighters are motivated by the propaganda of the Kremlin-controlled media, Yefimov says.

“Our press and television present the dramatic facts. The Russian people cannot tolerate the terror that the fascists have staged there [in Ukraine]. Killing women, children and the elderly. Most of those who go [to fight] are sensitive and empathetic; they want to help. This is especially true for people from 40 to 60 years of age, who were  brought up under Soviet traditions. ” Other fighters go because they miss the adrenaline of war or to earn money, he said.

[Doll]

Really?  You must be blind.


While he says his fighters are “volunteers” rather than mercenaries, they are paid salaries: from $1,000 per month for a low-ranking enlisted man to $2,000 to $4,000 for officers. Yefimov did not answer the reporter’s question about who pays the salaries.

Ukraine's government says more than 10,000 Russian mercenaries form the bulk of the Russian proxy forces that the Kremlin has used to sponsor the creation of the separatist "people's republics" in parts of Ukraine's Donetsk and Lugansk provinces. Many fighters are motivated by the propaganda of the Kremlin-controlled media, Yefimov says.

“Our press and television present the dramatic facts. The Russian people cannot tolerate the terror that the fascists have staged there [in Ukraine]. Killing women, children and the elderly. Most of those who go [to fight] are sensitive and empathetic; they want to help. This is especially true for people from 40 to 60 years of age, who were  brought up under Soviet traditions. ” Other fighters go because they miss the adrenaline of war or to earn money, he said.

Evidence?

[Boethius]

Here are some of the most noticeable fake reports that were recalled by Facebook users. Full list is available here (in Russian).

1. The crucifixion of a boy, reported by Perviy in July of 2014. The boy’s mother, according to the witness, was tied to a tank and dragged across the city’s central square.

2. The slaves for Ukrainian soldiers. In November of 2014 Perviy interviewed an unnamed citizen of Donetsk Oblast, who claimed that a soldier of Ukraine’s National Guard told him that each soldier was promised two slaves and a land lot for fighting against rebels.

3. NATO submarines in Russian rivers. In December of 2014 some social media accounts shared a message saying that the water level in rivers Lopan and Kharkiv, that run both in Ukraine and Russia, has been brought up manually, “to let NATO submarines enter Russia.”

4. Nationalist Dmytro Yarosh wins elections. On May 25, 2014, Russian Perviy Kanal showed a fake graph of the presidential elections vote count, showing nationalist leader Dmytro Yarosh winning election. In reality, Yarosh received 0.7 percent of votes.

5. Yarosh’s business card. On Apr. 20 a rebels’ post in Sloviansk was attacked by men on two cars. The attackers’ cars burned down, but LifeNews, Russian pro-government media, had still managed to find a business card belonging to the Right Sector leader Yarosh in one of the cars.

6. Protesters nailed golden eagles because of their name. When EuroMaidan protesters took over former president’s estate Mezhyhirya in February of 2014, one of the first photos of the place showed several birds of prey nailed to the posts - supposedly, the scarecrows that protected the president’s aviary. But a popular rumor said that the birds were murdered by the protesters because a golden eagle - “berkut” in Ukrainian - gave its name to the unit of Ukrainian riot police that assaulted protesters.

7. Father Frost is banned. Former Ukrainian lawmaker from Odesa Ihor Markov said on a Russian talk show in November of 2014 that Ukraine was about to ban Father Frost, an alternative of Santa Claus in post-Soviet countries, “because he is Russian.”

8. Zoophilia and “58 types of homosexuals” in Europe. A famous speech of a female activist in Crimea at a rally in October included a variety of peculiar claims. Making unclear references to Russian TV, the woman claimed that hundreds of thousands people protested in Germany, Denmark and Norway to protect their right for “zoophilic love.” She said that hundreds of zoophilic brothels legally operate in Europe, while all children are demanded to choose “which of 58 types of gays they are.” The went viral.


9. Fake heroes with stolen photos. Polina Turchynova from Krasnodar in Russia was very surprised to find her photo attached to a news item shared in all prominent separatists’ social media groups. The post said that the girl at the photo was a 16-year old rebel from Donetsk Oblast who sacrificed herself to stop a Ukrainian tank.

10. A mass burial of women raped by soldiers. In October of 2014 Russian TV network TVC reported that some 300 female bodies were found buried in Donetsk Oblast. The report was based on the words of Aleksandr Zakharchenko, one of the rebels’ leaders, who said that the women were raped and murdered. According to him, one of Ukrainian volunteer battalions used to be located in the place of the burial.

11. Citizens of Sloviansk were replaced by actors after the city was liberated by Ukrainian army. It was claimed by Aleksander Dugin, famous Russian nationalist, through his Facebook page.

12. Russian-speaking Ukrainians can’t buy bread in Kyiv. This story was told by Russian online newspaper Vesti.ru on April 1, 2014. Even though published on the April Fools’ Day, the story was not a joke.

13. A senior lady was raped and robbed while she was having an epileptic seizure. The story was told on a talk show broadcast by Russia-1, state-owned TV network with one of the biggest audiences in Russia.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/most-freakish-russian-lies-about-ukraine-now-listed-on-facebook-376725.html

[Shadow]

Fake reports are on all sides. The most noteable fake report is that Russia officially takes part.

If contributing to rebels is equal to invading a country, then we should look at some worldwide conflicts in another way, as there would be numerous invasions going on by some countries.

[Boethius]

Of course contributing to rebels is a form of proxy invasion, and should be denounced.

[Shadow]

Of course contributing to rebels is a form of proxy invasion, and should be denounced.

Is that valid only in Ukraine or would the same apply for Lybia, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Israel en several other areas?

[Boethius]

It applies everywhere, IMHO.

[Boethius]

Good article here -


http://www.facebook.com/annavero.wendland/posts/421781721330744

[Shadow]

It applies everywhere, IMHO.

Yet I doubt that if you proclaim the USA is invading Syria many would agree with you.

[JayH]

Russia is not there..

Fake reports are on all sides. The most noteable fake report is that Russia officially takes part.

Shadow--    forget your attempt to use semantics to mislead ----- Russia is not OFFICIALLY there-- because if they acknowledge they are-- Putin is in breach of the Russian constitution  as he has no approval to be at war in Ukraine. Putin also knows that if that was the case his whole house of fabricated lies and propaganda would collapse--  so your completely disingenuous dishonest attempt to create some silly basis for you to continue denying Russian troops are in Ukraine conducting a war against the Ukrainian people.
To the 2 of you---- are Russian troops( military) in the Donbas on Ukrainian territory conducting military actions against Ukraine?

[Shadow]

Shadow--    forget your attempt to use semantics to mislead ----- Russia is not OFFICIALLY there-- because if they acknowledge they are-- Putin is in breach of the Russian constitution  as he has no approval to be at war in Ukraine. Putin also knows that if that was the case his whole house of fabricated lies and propaganda would collapse--  so your completely disingenuous dishonest attempt to create some silly basis for you to continue denying Russian troops are in Ukraine conducting a war against the Ukrainian people.
To the 2 of you---- are Russian troops( military) in the Donbas on Ukrainian territory conducting military actions against Ukraine?

You are the one who is wanting to play semantics.

Tel me... if there are Armenians fighting there, does it mean Armenia is supporting an invasion of Ukraine according to you?

[JayH]

You are the one who is wanting to play semantics.

Tel me... if there are Armenians fighting there, does it mean Armenia is supporting an invasion of Ukraine according to you?

Instead of attempting more evasions of a direct question-- answer mine!! It is simple enough -yes or no?

[Anotherkiwi]

Here are some of the most noticeable fake reports that were recalled by Facebook users. Full list is available here (in Russian).

1. The crucifixion of a boy, reported by Perviy in July of 2014. The boy’s mother, according to the witness, was tied to a tank and dragged across the city’s central square.

Probably the most-quoted of the lot.  Remember the Russian actress pretending to be a grief-stricken witness?  And she couldn't even remember the name of the town's streets or main square.

2. The slaves for Ukrainian soldiers. In November of 2014 Perviy interviewed an unnamed citizen of Donetsk Oblast, who claimed that a soldier of Ukraine’s National Guard told him that each soldier was promised two slaves and a land lot for fighting against rebels.

3. NATO submarines in Russian rivers. In December of 2014 some social media accounts shared a message saying that the water level in rivers Lopan and Kharkiv, that run both in Ukraine and Russia, has been brought up manually, “to let NATO submarines enter Russia.”

I haven't seen either of these before - I LOVE Number 3! 

7. Father Frost is banned. Former Ukrainian lawmaker from Odesa Ihor Markov said on a Russian talk show in November of 2014 that Ukraine was about to ban Father Frost, an alternative of Santa Claus in post-Soviet countries, “because he is Russian.”

Let's ban Santa Claus as well, because he's American/German/not a New Zealander.  Sheesh!

8. Zoophilia and “58 types of homosexuals” in Europe.

Did she ever define the 58?  I would struggle to get past half a dozen.

10. A mass burial of women raped by soldiers. In October of 2014 Russian TV network TVC reported that some 300 female bodies were found buried in Donetsk Oblast. The report was based on the words of Aleksandr Zakharchenko, one of the rebels’ leaders, who said that the women were raped and murdered. According to him, one of Ukrainian volunteer battalions used to be located in the place of the burial.

That one's as sick as the "crucified child."

11. Citizens of Sloviansk were replaced by actors after the city was liberated by Ukrainian army. It was claimed by Aleksander Dugin, famous Russian nationalist, through his Facebook page.

"Nationalist" - or stand-up comic?

13. A senior lady was raped and robbed while she was having an epileptic seizure. The story was told on a talk show broadcast by Russia-1, state-owned TV network with one of the biggest audiences in Russia.

Another sickie, but at least this one is more likely to have happened - maybe in Russia after a night fuelled by vodka.

[Muzh]

[mendeleyev]

Mende,

Is there a golden ring in Moscow?  I always thought that the Golden Ring was comprised of Vladimir, Nizny Novgorod, Yaroslavl, Ivanovo, etc.  (Oh, I can't forget Suzdal.)

Thank you, Jone. You are correct as the Golden Ring is outside (northeast) of Moscow. 

It is a heavenly place and I know that you've been there, likely many times.