What Explains Russians loss of Memory ?

[Doll]

Russians don't have loss of memory, even younger generation (who is in 30s).
Majority of them don't trust ANY government, they don't believe "newspapers".
 

[Boethius]

Were that true, there would not be the views toward Ukraine that are commonly held in Russia today.

[Doll]

Were that true, there would not be the views toward Ukraine that are commonly held in Russia today.

I said "majority" PLUS none of us (you included) knows what really is happenening in Ukraine (both East and the rest of it).
Nobody on this board knows.
Where do you see these "views"? On RT?
 

[Boethius]

What is happening in Donbas is known to those who are interested.


As for Russian attitudes, yes, they are reported in polls, among other things.  One need only read the posts of Russian posters here to get the sense of how Ukrainians are viewed.

[Gator]

I said "majority" PLUS none of us (you included) knows what really is happenening in Ukraine (both East and the rest of it).
Nobody on this board knows.

How about those members living there (Stirlitz) or who have family there (Miss Ameno) or husbands of UW with family still there (some in the hot zone)?

Doll, if you had a brother or son in the military and stationed in the hot zone, we could give you much more credence.  Yet all you do  is play back Russian media. 

[Doll]

What is happening in Donbas is known to those who are interested.


As for Russian attitudes, yes, they are reported in polls, among other things.  One need only read the posts of Russian posters here to get the sense of how Ukrainians are viewed.

But NONE of RWD memers know the reality.
Yes I am the "russian poster" and I love my country but I don't trust ANY Government or mass media. No loss of memory.
I don't "view" all Ukrainians or Ukraine negatively. I actually love it- visited many times.
I "view" this Poroshenko's gang certain way.
As for Putin- he is the best option now for Russia

[Boethius]

The fact that you view Poroshenko and his "gang" (who are they, BTW) a certain way suggests you have been influenced by Russian media.


Yes, RWD can know the reality of what is occurring in Donbas, from friends, and from wide reading.

[Doll]

Yes, RWD can know the reality of what is occurring in Donbas, from friends, and from wide reading.

I guarantee you that nobody on this board knows it (as well as "friends from Donbas")
Reading is nothing- wide or not.
Anyway, I posted what I think AND know regarding the OP.

[Doll]

As for Russian attitudes, yes, they are reported in polls, among other things.  One need only read the posts of Russian posters here to get the sense of how Ukrainians are viewed.

BTW, "Russian posters" are Lumila, Belvis, Mendy and I.
I've NOT read a single post about "how Ukrainians" are viewed. No hatred or something unlike most of yours and other people's posts regarding Russians.
I mean nations, not government.
None of the "Russian posters" are happy about Ukrainian hardships. We don't open threads like "More Bad News for Ukraine". You know why?
We are not used to hate people.
I talk to many Russians here and in Russia, I read Russian forums (in Russia)- nobody writes stuff like "we wish Poroshenko is dead" or " we are happy that grivna is low".

[Boethius]

BTW, "Russian posters" are Lumila, Belvis, Mendy and I.
I've NOT read a single post about "how Ukrainians" are viewed. No hatred or something unlike most of yours and other people's posts regarding Russians.
I mean nations, not government.
None of the "Russian posters" are happy about Ukrainian hardships. We don't open threads like "More Bad News for Ukraine". You know why?
We are not used to hate people.
I talk to many Russians here and in Russia, I read Russian forums (in Russia)- nobody writes stuff like "we wish Poroshenko is dead" or " we are happy that grivna is low".

Please point to one post where I have stated I hate Russians, I wish Putin were dead, I am happy the ruble is low, I am happy about Russian hardships, or anything similar.  Just one.

[Doll]

All right, most members but not you. You're right.
 

[Muzh]

The answer to that is very simple. Governments support the side they feel will be most beneficial to them, regardless of ideology.
Besdes that, the fight was against NaZism, which is fascism combines with socialism.

I like Umberto Eco's definition of fascism (Ur-Fascism.)


The Cult of Tradition, um, self explanatory.

The Cult of Action for Action's Sake, meaning that action is of value in itself taken without intellectual reflection. Eco says this is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism.

Disagreement is treason. Well, need I say more?

Fear of difference. Can't blame the Russians having a monopoly here. Just look here.

Appeal to a frustrated middle class. Again, Russia, USA Europe are having the same problem.

Obsession with a plot to invade, overtake, eliminate your country. Now, this is more pervasive where?

Pacifism Is Trafficking with the "Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare."

Contempt for the weak,everybody in the society is educated to become a hero.
"Selective Populism" - the People have a common will, which is not delegated but directed by a dictator."Newspeak" - fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.And my favorite, "Plausible Deniability." Now Shadow, you tell me which country shows more fascist tendencies, Russia or Ukraine?

[Muzh]

I'd say a media that ignores (see no evil)can have about the same affect as a media that knowingly prints untruths.  One sounds better than the other.  That said, I suspect the media is kept in the dark usually.

Fathertime!

Oh for heavens sake.


Why don't we ALL crawl under a rock and be safe from those media bastards?


It is just amazing.


All I hear are rants from so-called intelligent people arguing that I will trust my guy but not yours as if we don't have a farging brain to separate bullshit from facts.


Oh please, take those mind-altering media out of my space, they will indoctrinate me.


FACT is that people will hear what they want to hear. Period.

[Muzh]

I do agree with many of the things you say, BO,  but believe this goes beyond that.


 I think it really smacked me in the face when Ron Paul ran for president and many of the news outlets wouldn't even name the guy.  They did run stories on the elections but would not even mention Ron.  Even John Stewart made fun of those stories. 


After that, if a story is interesting to me I need to research it from many different sources because I don't trust our media.   That is why I can't take the holier than thou attitude that our media is better.  It some ways it is better and some ways just as bad. 


I don't expect most to agree with me on this and I'm okay with that. 

Pray tell, what are those sources?


Mind sharing what are these fountains of knowledge?

[Muzh]

Russians don't have loss of memory, even younger generation (who is in 30s).
Majority of them don't trust ANY government, they don't believe "newspapers".

In Russia??

[LiveFromUkraine]

Pray tell, what are those sources?


Mind sharing what are these fountains of knowledge?

No specific sources and no need to pray.


http://news.google.com/

[Muzh]

No specific sources and no need to pray.


http://news.google.com/

Oh, that's wonderful. The same biased media you are so vilifying.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Oh, that's wonderful. The same biased media you are so vilifying.

Which one would that be?  Google news is an aggregate of news stories from many different sources.  Same as their search.  Maybe you can be more specific.


Searching "Ukraine War" brings up all types of sources.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=ukraine&oq=ukraine&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j0l9j43i53.7062.7749.0.7949.7.3.0.4.4.0.102.266.2j1.3.0...0.0...1ac.1.jEarlbmtDZg#hl=en&gl=us&authuser=0&tbm=nws&q=ukraine+war

[Belvis]

The fact that you view Poroshenko and his "gang" (who are they, BTW) a certain way suggests you have been influenced by Russian media.

No, Russian media would call them junta. Word "gang" is used by Tatyana Montyan and other Ukrainians in Facebook.

[Boethius]

It is not what she calls Poroshenko and his surrounding, but rather, that Doll views him a particularl way that suggests the influence.

[Belvis]

It is not what she calls Poroshenko and his surrounding, but rather, that Doll views him a particularl way that suggests the influence.

The influence of Tatyana Montyan, who calls Poroshenko and his surrounding as "gang from Vinnitsa" 
http://sdiya.org/tat-yana-montyan-cel-ato-utilizirovat-aktivnyh-patriotov-i-spisat-na.html

[fathertime]

Oh for heavens sake.


Why don't we ALL crawl under a rock and be safe from those media bastards?


It is just amazing.


All I hear are rants from so-called intelligent people arguing that I will trust my guy but not yours as if we don't have a farging brain to separate bullshit from facts.


Oh please, take those mind-altering media out of my space, they will indoctrinate me.


FACT is that people will hear what they want to hear. Period.

I don't know where this rant comes from based on the quoted comment.   I don't entirely disagree that people USUALLY here what they want to hear....THat said...the point of my post wasn't more a jab at the people keeping info away from the media so it can't be reported....thankfully we get a leaker every so often that spills the beans and lets the public in on a few (usually dirty)secrets.


Fathertime!   

[JayH]

Please point to one post where I have stated I hate Russians, I wish Putin were dead, I am happy the ruble is low, I am happy about Russian hardships, or anything similar.  Just one.

As long as Russia is occupying Ukrainian territory,attempting to interfere in internal Ukrainian business,sending terrorist bombers all over Ukraine,arming potential terrorists,killing and injuring Ukrainians etc etc-- sure I wish all the hardships possible on Russia--if it takes extreme discomfort to the Russian people as a whole to do something about the government so be it-they can blame themselves for it.When they wake up that they are responsible for their plight-- and no one else- then we might see some acceptance of responsibility for the situation they allowed their government to create.
I would be happy if the rubble is at 300 to a $  ie worthless--the sooner the better the quicker and bigger the crisis Russia is in economically-- the quicker the reality will be faced ie  Russia is a plague on the world-- a disgusting pariah state,
Putin dead--the sooner the better- and all his thugs and cronies with him--Russia needs a revolution to rid themselves of the kleptocrat thugs controlling Russia.
Let all that happen and Russia could become a good world citizen and accepted as part of the world.Then we could all enjoy Russia and Russians again.

[Misha]

The people of Britain.  Flawed as the BBC may be in some respects, it is not an organ of government in its reporting.

The same could also be said of the CBC in Canada, yet I have yet to see the equivalent of Rick Mercer on any Russian television. None of the state-owned Russian television channels would ever air anything comparable to this piece, for example: [size=78%]http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11/27/rick-mercer-harper-rant-video_n_4349977.html[/size]. A public broadcaster can be an effective critic if the government keeps its distance and does not dictate content.

[JayH]

The same could also be said of the CBC in Canada, yet I have yet to see the equivalent of Rick Mercer on any Russian television. None of the state-owned Russian television channels would ever air anything comparable to this piece, for example: [size=78%]http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11/27/rick-mercer-harper-rant-video_n_4349977.html[/size]. A public broadcaster can be an effective critic if the government keeps its distance and does not dictate content.

There is a vast difference in western media being answerable and questioned-- blatant lies do not survive long.By way of comparison--the state controlled media in Russia is activley involved in promoting lies--repeating and reinforcing what even they know is untrue.