Charlie Hebdo: Я шарли эбдо

[JayH]

Perhaps then you should practice more self-control. If I comment on every irrational post you've made I would have well over 10,000 posts by now

Yeah--I can understand why you would need 10 to 1 to explain yourself !!  Would any of your posts be  more rational than you have made in this thread?

[Faux Pas]

Yeah--I can understand why you would need 10 to 1 to explain yourself !!  Would any of your posts be  more rational than you have made in this thread?

Well math isn't your best subject but which one is, eh? Most all of your posts could be attacked 100 different ways. There is no finer example than calling for world war against Russia for it's transgressions against Ukraine and in the same breath throwing an infantile hissy fit that somewhere someone might have a firearm to protect themselves against religious fanaticals or anyone else that may threaten life.

[JayH]

Well math isn't your best subject but which one is, eh? Most all of your posts could be attacked 100 different ways. There is no finer example than calling for world war against Russia for it's transgressions against Ukraine and in the same breath throwing an infantile hissy fit that somewhere someone might have a firearm to protect themselves against religious fanaticals or anyone else that may threaten life.

Your comments show you are not good at comprehension or interpretation--2 factors you would need before going of half arsed killing fellow citizens.

[Faux Pas]

Your comments show you are not good at comprehension or interpretation--2 factors you would need before going of half arsed killing fellow citizens.

Yeah, I rest my case

[AC]

Yeah, I rest my case

It's not difficult when dealing with a clown.  Jay you've made a lot of foolish and naïve posts about Ukraine with your previous post that Ukraine (or whoever you were blowing smoke about) could invade and take back Crimea.

That one is over and it won't be changing hands in our lifetime, any true expert could assure you of that.

My advice to you is to carefully read what I'm going to attach here and keep your nose out of US affairs.

[AC]

Well math isn't your best subject but which one is, eh? Most all of your posts could be attacked 100 different ways. There is no finer example than calling for world war against Russia for it's transgressions against Ukraine and in the same breath throwing an infantile hissy fit that somewhere someone might have a firearm to protect themselves against religious fanaticals or anyone else that may threaten life.

Boom!!!

 

[JayH]

It's not difficult when dealing with a clown.  Jay you've made a lot of foolish and naïve posts about Ukraine with your previous post that Ukraine (or whoever you were blowing smoke about) could invade and take back Crimea.

That one is over and it won't be changing hands in our lifetime, any true expert could assure you of that.

My advice to you is to carefully read what I'm going to attach here and keep your nose out of US affairs.

You see about comprehension comments--it applies to you--you are incapable of even reading what was written-- and attempt to make a huge generalisation --it is a dishonest attempt to support your assertion -FT may need you you to join him the in the clown ranks--but FP is capable of making his own points.
On the future-let us see how it unfolds --you are already consistently wrong on a key point--so let us see what history will show.

btw--your following me around to post is bordering on trolling-- so time for you to grow up.

[AC]

You see about comprehension comments--it applies to you--you are incapable of even reading what was written-- and attempt to make a huge generalisation --it is a dishonest attempt to support your assertion -FT may need you you to join him the in the clown ranks--but FP is capable of making his own points.
On the future-let us see how it unfolds --you are already consistently wrong on a key point--so let us see what history will show.

 

[pokerintherear]

I saw the video and from that vantage point it looked like shooting fish in a barrel if anyONE had a rifle.

Of course, This is the case in all gun free countries and gun free zones in the USA. If I was a sick individual wanting to inflict as much carnage as possible I would find a place where firearms are illegal.

Policy makers don't see the arrears of their ideology until it hits them square in the face.

Our friend Shadow still doesn't see it because it did not happen on his door step. Though he is thinking more because it was closer to his home than he ever expected.

[pokerintherear]

Not at all. Several people I know have one. They are just not allowed to carry it every day to their job.

WTF,  why were the 2 terrorist carrying Kalashnikov rifles ( AK -47's) in the streets of Paris. I thought is was not allowed? What gives?

[Faux Pas]

WTF,  why were the 2 terrorist carrying Kalashnikov rifles ( AK -47's) in the streets of Paris. I thought is was not allowed? What gives?

Odd huh? I can't imagine why the young Muslim scholars were not obeying the French law and possessing those guns. I suppose assault rifles are quicker than clubbing the innocents with iron pipes and the attack was about expediency. In, murder and carnage of people who can't protect themselves, and out with surgical precision. If you're going to break the murder law, what's a possession of a firearm charge? No point in risking someone might remain alive.

[The Natural]

If just half of the people that filmed the assault with smart phones had been armed with a gun instead of a smart phone and prepared to defend, all of those extremists could have been stopped before 12 innocents died FWIW

You may be right. But in the decades before that, all those folks armed With guns would have amongst them a tiny few that would have killed off ten times that in School shootings and so on, I'm afraid.

[Faux Pas]

You may be right. But in the decades before that, all those folks armed With guns would have amongst them a tiny few that would have killed off ten times that in School shootings and so on, I'm afraid.

Nah, probably not. You're buying into the hype and propaganda Natural. Consider this; schools are a natural target for a crazed mind. Why? Mostly because there is nobody there armed and it's the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel. The fish can't shoot back. How many stories do you hear of a madman shooter entering a building or other venue where people can shoot back? The fact is, you don't. Even an insane mind can grasp this concept.

[lordtiberius]

Jay H does have one advantage: he has been to Ukraine at least once.

[The Natural]

First off, my symphaties to Pat. We in the USA, Spain, UK and Norway knows what a national terrorist disaster like this does to us. We don’t know the whole story of what was REALLY behind it in France now, let’s hope we do in the future. Personally I don’t think they were lone lunatics. How about that lost ID card in the car? That reminds me of a scenario some 13 years ago.
I see that this event has created a question here on RWD on whether the general public should be allowed to arm themselves or not. I understand both the pros and cons of this as I’ve followed this from the US perspective for 10 years.

RWD is a US site with most of it’s members being Americans and even if not all Americans subscribe to the gun culture, I believe it’s safe to say the majority of RWD is pro-guns for everybody.

But just for the sake of an alternative view, or perhaps for those Americans interested in considering the views of many Europeans on this matter, let me give you a personal experience. It happened just a few weeks ago.
I was watching a movie in my home cinema when my wife came in telling me that she saw from our living room windows someone trying to break the glass of the entrance of the shop just across the road. I ran upstairs and saw a van which shortly drove away. I figured they saw they were spotted, put on winter clothes and went outside towards the store. Then someone shouted at me. From a car parked outside the neighbouring house and I ran there. It was the owner of the shop, with his wife.

He told me the owner of the house they were parked outside of, a taxi driver, had also seen the attempted break-in and followed them as they drove away. He had called that the criminals were on their way back. In the meantime, the police were of course notified, but they were 60 km away.

So we sat there in the car waiting. Then the white van came back and actually to my surprise pulled off and parked in front of the store. Back to the crime scene!
The owner of the store drove after them and parked right behind the van and we got out of the car.
A couple of the guys in the van was at this time out of the van but not apparently noticing our car and us approaching them. As I approached them I called out, in English (as we all know these are almost never locals, even though the plates of the car was Norwegian), “what are you doing”. The guys was confused and not much conversation was possible because they couldn’t understand English, let alone Norwegian. We had blocked their rear escape by parking the shop owner’s Volvo just behind. After a few minutes four of the guys were out of the car. What we didn’t know at the time was that there was a fifth, sleeping inside the van.

The driver of the car as well as another of them was the ones that could at least speak a little English and they were also the ones that kept calm and nice throughout the whole event. I got out of them that they were from Lithuania(which were later confirmed officially). But then two of the others started to get agitated. Time went by and even though they couldn’t understand English and were drunk, they perfectly knew that we tried to keep them there in wait for the police to arrive.

Who were we that kept them from driving away. Well, except from me, it was the shop owner, moderately overweight, short man at 62 or 63, a guy driving the trash car who’s on sick-leave in his late fifties and a 77-year old! That’s it!  No guns, no bats, no spray. Only authority.

Now, let me tell anyone, guy or gal, who think they are powerless without  a gun or another lethal instrument… it’s bullshit! One of the guys jumped on the driver seat of the van, on top of their designated driver, and put the car in reverse. The van collided with the Volvo of the owner and then I just acted… no thinking, just act. I pulled the fabric of his clothes and pulled him as far as my might could, well outside of the car. He was still wild, so I got down on my knees, behind him, and held him in a chokehold. He signaled that he surrendered and I let him be but held a very close eye on him. One wrong move and I would be all over him, no question.

But time went by and truth be told we were outnumbered in terms at that time. Had I had just one of my pals there in their 30’s or 40’s, it’s different. So during the time when things were calm and we were waiting for the police to arrive, the two most aggressive guys ran away.

The police finally arrived and was informed of the situation. They came with three cars. Two officers handcuffed the two calm criminals and the really grumpy one waking up later on. Two other patrol cars went out searching for the two who ran away. A friend of mine came and we also went out with his car looking. By this time, several cars in our tiny village of 300 people were out looking for them, mostly out of fear they might be drunk and desperate enough to do harm to innocent people.
Eventually the police caught them outside a vacant house.

The police went out of their way to thank us for our help. No doubt this was a huge feather for the police too, as the numerous raids around Norway often goes without reactions due to lack of proof.

What’s the lesson? If you have a gun you have all the power in the world, but God help you if you make a mistake. We had nothing. We still handled the situation for the good of all. A couple of my friends said I should have done some real damage physically when I had the opportunity. At the time I didn’t feel it necessary and later on I’m glad I didn’t. Don’t get me wrong, if at ever a time calls for it, like my Erik being in danger, I will use lethal means with my own hands and I know how. But one needs to use ones head, is it simply a burgarly (economic) or is it it physical harm (lethal).

[jone]

I guess we're all wondering what good any efforts would have been against a couple of AK-47s.

I have a nice 12 gauge shotgun and some handguns at home, in a locked vault.  Should the occasion arise, I have no problem getting them out and protecting my home and family. 

[The Natural]

I guess we're all wondering what good any efforts would have been against a couple of AK-47s.

I have a nice 12 gauge shotgun and some handguns at home, in a locked vault.  Should the occasion arise, I have no problem getting them out and protecting my home and family.

Yeah, but why are you Americans so scared???

[AC]

Yeah, but why are you Americans so scared???

We're not scared but we are prepared.  Sort of like Poland having an Army to protect their homeland.

Getting back to your question though I would say that you have never read the details of the LA riots.

A large group of these thugs made their way from S. Central LA down to Venice which is mostly expensive

homes.  The rioters broke into these homes and some people were killed.  If you are not prepared to defend

your home then perhaps you should not even own one.  There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands

of attempted home invasions each year in America. 

[Boethius]

If that is accurate, then you should be looking at why home invasions are so rampant in your society, when they are not in the rest of the Western world.


Another perspective -


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-violence-and-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/

[lordtiberius]

Yeah, but why are you Americans so scared???

He is right.  Islam is a religion of peace and it is all Bush and Cheney's fault for forcing Obama to continue their legacy.  It all goes back to the Jews.

[Boethius]

Start reading about Joseph Kony.

I'd read about him in the past.  Anyone who practices polygamy has already rejected Christ's words.

In any event, even assuming the "Lord's Resistance Army" is nominally Christian, we are talking what?  500 victims?  1,000?  Compared to tens of thousands slaughtered in the name of Allah in recent years.  2,000 yesterday in Nigeria.  Not to mention the thousands who are forced to marry their fighters, or sold as slaves by ISIS.

I am not suggesting all Muslims accept this.  But, the problem is not religion, it is certain Islamic denominations, almost all of which are offshoots of Wahhibism.  They are where Christianity was before the Enlightenment.  You cannot draw a comparison, as you have attempted to do, as the situations are not comparable.

[AC]

If that is accurate, then you should be looking at why home invasions are so rampant in your society, when they are not in the rest of the Western world.

Tell that sob story to the family of the Police officers murdered in cold blood by an illegal immigrant from Mexico, a felon who kept crossing the border even after he had been sent back to Mexico, because he could, because our President doesn't care about border security.

Tell it to the black mothers whose sons in Chicago are murdered by black gangs.  Meanwhile Rahm Emanuel who is for gun control, sends his children to private schools with armed guards, as does Obama.

This is an old and silly debate, especially with comments coming from someone who likely lives in a rural area of Canada and a few pacifists in Europe. 

In the USA it boils down to a debate between liberal "elites" who can afford to live in wealthy enclaves with gates and send their children to expensive private schools with armed guards and the rest of America.

It also boils down to our heritage of the old West and the need to always have the right to bear arms.  It boils down to a much different perspective and belief system then your own, which you are entitled to have over there in Canada.

Our belief system is entirely different and with more then 300 million legally registered guns here, and probably close to 10 million combat veterans as well as millions of blue collar types, you will never change the culture of America.

[Boethius]

I never stated I desired a change to "American culture".


But the violence in your society is very tied to your culture.

[jone]

I've never been afraid of home invasion.  But, for the same reason I keep some gold in my home, I keep guns.  We have an adequate supply of water and foodstuffs.  It is something I learned from my parents and grandparents. 

One thing you will find out about most people who grew up in the Midwest (like I did) is that they are prepared for many things that could happen but that don't generally happen.

I don't advocate any family having guns that are stored in an area that might be accessible to those who don't have the knowledge about how to use them.  Knowing my neighbors, I would also be secure in knowing that they are armed too.

[AC]

I never stated I desired a change to "American culture".


But the violence in your society is very tied to your culture.

I agree.  I wish that children and teens were not exposed to so much of it in video games.

I wish that young men did not think it was "cool" to go to war in Iraq or Afghanistan, before it was too late and they realize what they've gotten themselves into.

I wish that the USA would allow public TV programming like I've heard they do in Europe which shows bare breasts.

It's been said that Americans love violence but don't like sex.  It's a bit twisted but possibly true to some extent based on what movies are the biggest hits.