Ukraine is losing the war

[lordtiberius]

http://20committee.com/2015/01/17/why-ukraine-is-losing/

Poroshenko is squandering the bravery of these young men.

[Chelseaboy]

Hmmmm..this kind of confirms what i was told about young Ukrainian men in general are not getting called-up/volunteering to fight..but are partying in nightclubs as usual...

[AC]

Hmmmm..this kind of confirms what i was told about young Ukrainian men in general are not getting called-up/volunteering to fight..but are partying in nightclubs as usual...

I'm sure that depends upon their wealth.  For eons the poor and middle class have fought wars while the wealthy guys feel they are exempt.  Just think about the first Gulf war when young Americans went to liberate Kuwait and the young wealthy Kuwaiti's were in another country partying.  Sad but usually true. 

George Bush Jr. for example, a guy from a wealthy family went into the National Guard as a pilot rather then serving in Vietnam (he was drafted but somehow managed to stay stateside).

If you read that entire link it's suggested that some or many of the professional officers stay back in Kiev while the younger volunteers go to fight the actual war.

[BillyB]

http://20committee.com/2015/01/17/why-ukraine-is-losing/

Poroshenko is squandering the bravery of these young men.

Are you feeling ok today LT? That article you feel is important enough to put here says Russia can defeat Ukraine's military with ease. That's what I've been saying all along and you've been disagreeing with me.

[AC]

Are you feeling ok today LT? That article you feel is important enough to put here says Russia can defeat Ukraine's military with ease. That's what I've been saying all along and you've been disagreeing with me.

  

I know, duh!

[cc3]

George Bush Jr. for example, a guy from a wealthy family went into the National Guard as a pilot rather then serving in Vietnam (he was drafted but somehow managed to stay stateside).

Tell me AC(e)...do you think every single fighter pilot in the active American military during the Vietnam years was assigned to Vietnam?

I am not a Bush supporter, but your evident lack of knowledge and experience with the Vietnam era military needs to be exposed.

[AC]

Tell me AC(e)...do you think every single fighter pilot in the active American military during the Vietnam years was assigned to Vietnam?

I am not a Bush supporter, but your evident lack of knowledge and experience with the Vietnam era military needs to be exposed.

I could be wrong as my recall might be off but I was under the impression Bush Jr. used his family connections to avoid serving in Vietnam.  Cheney IIRC got 4 deferrments as he was in University.

John Kerry however did not use his family connections to get out of Vietnam.  I'm not a Democrat but I thought the whole "swift boat" thing was very dishonorable.

I don't mind if you want to correct me; I don't claim to be infallible, far from it.

[cc3]

A graceful response...thank you. Informationally, I was an active duty Marine fighter pilot from 1967 to 1973, and reserve from '73 to '77, and never was assigned to Vietnam. I did stand alert pad duty, with live missiles, against Cuba, in '70, and North Korea (in defense of Japan), in '70 to '71.

My father was a middle grade career officer and pilot in the Air Force and had nothing to do with my lack of a combat assignment.

[AC]

A graceful response...thank you. Informationally, I was an active duty Marine fighter pilot from 1967 to 1973, and reserve from '73 to '77, and never was assigned to Vietnam. I did stand alert pad duty, with live missiles, against Cuba, in '70, and North Korea (in defense of Japan), in '70 to '71.

My father was a middle grade career officer and pilot in the Air Force and had nothing to do with my lack of a combat assignment.

Just read this.  I salute you, thanks for your service.  Very cool you had live missiles ready to go against Cuba.

I'm thinking NATO needs to step up and threaten Putin with a no fly zone over all of Ukraine including the East.  What do you think about that?

As far as Bush Jr. it could be he never used his dads influence, just the left wing media beat it to death.  Not a huge fan of him either but he's 10X better than B. Hussein Obama (the great pretender).

[JayH]

I'm thinking NATO needs to step up and threaten Putin with a no fly zone over all of Ukraine including the East.  What do you think about that?

No Fly Zone would be excellent .

No point in threatening--put it in place and THEN advise Putin & Russia.
Include the means to disarm Russian radar and systems and the capacity to enforce that- then it would be going somewhere!!

[Taz]

Give Ukraine current technology SAMs batteries (surface to air missiles) along with good radar systems and Russian won't risk deploying any aircraft. Very simple and inexpensive to do. Once you shoot down a few Russian aircraft flying into Ukraine's airspace, very hard to deny your deep involvement in Ukraine.


Of course propagandists like Doll will say there were no "troops" in Ukraine... They were just ABOVE it, not in it. See! Putin was RIGHT!!!!

[AC]

Give Ukraine current technology SAMs batteries (surface to air missiles) along with good radar systems and Russian won't risk deploying any aircraft. Very simple and inexpensive to do. Once you shoot down a few Russian aircraft flying into Ukraine's airspace, very hard to deny your deep involvement in Ukraine.


Of course propagandists like Doll will say there were no "troops" in Ukraine... They were just ABOVE it, not in it. See! Putin was RIGHT!!!!

 

Great post Taz.  We've clearly had some disagreements here but one thing we are all (almost all, I think Gator is the exception) united about is that Ukraine needs to be given the modern and advanced weapons that they've been asking for, STAT!

[Steamer]

Great post Taz.  We've clearly had some disagreements here but one thing we are all (almost all, I think Gator is the exception) united about is that Ukraine needs to be given the modern and advanced weapons that they've been asking for, STAT!

Won't that just give Russia the green light to supply E. Ukraine with their latest and greatest also?

[lordtiberius]

Are you feeling ok today LT? That article you feel is important enough to put here says Russia can defeat Ukraine's military with ease. That's what I've been saying all along and you've been disagreeing with me.

Anytime you want to go one on one on any subject, let me know.

Tell us again of your pro-Ukrainian loyalties

[AC]

Won't that just give Russia the green light to supply E. Ukraine with their latest and greatest also?

So you admit that there are Russians fighting in E. Ukraine, which is essentially an invasion of Ukraine?

[lordtiberius]

 

I know, duh!

I make this post from Munich en route to Ukraine.  Let us know when you make a trip

[papacool]

I know your trip very well, Munich and Borispyl.
This is not the subject. What is your oblast in Ua?
I am in Cherkassy oblast.

[papacool]

Today an information on social chats.
Motorola, the chief of DNR army died in Donetsk airport.
Arseny Sergeyevich Pavlov a russian soldier born in occidental siberia was a symbol for the independentists, a friend with Igor Girkin.
This can help Ukraine in this war.

[jone]

Won't that just give Russia the green light to supply E. Ukraine with their latest and greatest also?

Stanley,

The only branches of the Russian military not currently involved are the Navy and the Air force.  It is kinda hard for the navy to be involved, and participation by the Air force presents undesirable revelations.

My take is that the Ukrainian forces could be upgraded considerably and still be substandard compared to the equipment they are facing.  We have had previous threads that reveal what Russia is already throwing into the mix.

[Steamer]

So you admit that there are Russians fighting in E. Ukraine, which is essentially an invasion of Ukraine?

I don't know how you spun that statement out of my question.


What I am asking is if the west escalates the conflict by declaring a "no fly zone" and supplying the latest military hardware we have; wouldn't that give a green light to Russia to do the exact same thing?


Before you start any chest thumping remember: Russia has some wicked weapon systems of their own.

[fathertime]

What I am asking is if the west escalates the conflict by declaring a "no fly zone" and supplying the latest military hardware we have; wouldn't that give a green light to Russia to do the exact same thing?


Before you start any chest thumping remember: Russia has some wicked weapon systems of their own.

Certain members seem to be convinced that Russia will allow themselves to be pushed around and would not escalate...I don't think so....others are convinced Russia doesn't have any military might...that is not correct either...


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

Russia doesn't want full scale war with Ukraine.  It wants Ukraine to be sidelined by a conflict in Donbas.

[BillyB]

What I am asking is if the west escalates the conflict by declaring a "no fly zone" and supplying the latest military hardware we have; wouldn't that give a green light to Russia to do the exact same thing?

Russia is already doing the same thing. They are currently supplying weapons into Ukraine and shooting down Ukraine's military planes and a civilian airliner. I guess that's their method of imposing a no fly policy.

Russia doesn't want full scale war with Ukraine.

That's still an option for Putin but it's cheaper, less riskier, and better for his image if he supports rebels to march to Kiev while pretending he's not involved. I seriously doubt Putin is going to let the West win this one now that he's in this too deep. It would be bad for his popularity ratings and the health of growing ego.

[AkMike]

I know your trip very well, Munich and Borispyl.
This is not the subject. What is your oblast in Ua?
I am in Cherkassy oblast.

 I'm in Cherkassy during my time here in UA. We're in Kyiv ATM. My wife went to the university there in Uman and I loved the Botanical Gardens there!

[Muzh]

That's why Ukrainians will win.