Ukraine is losing the war

[AkMike]

AkMike,
If you can live without wine and beef, it is easy to stay in Ukraine.
With $ or euros, your power of life is about 10 times more than in occidental country.
In my little city, you can buy a beautiful house with big ground for about 10.000$.
In west Europe this is 20 times more price.
In Vinitsa oblast, it is much less price.
Uman Park is one of the best in the world, surely, the most interesting thing I saw in all Ukraine.

 I've been coming here for 11 years for 1-3 months at a time during each year. We'll be here full time after I retire in 2 more years. We've been looking at real estate now but I'm holding out for a place near the forest and on the Dnieper.

[JayH]

Putin has boxed himself into a corner--very dangerous situation at this point.

I think that it foolish for the West to send in the cavalry. That could easily set off WWIII. Yes, it would turn nuclear, at least regionally.

At the same time, it would be even more foolish to play the part of Neville Chamberlain: see my detailed response to Father Time in another thread.

I think that Ukraine needs to have the resources and ability to defend herself, and that Europe should step up, big time, to help faciliate this. At this juncture, the Europeans, although they often have weak stomachs for conflict (which gets them into trouble in the first place), need to grow some balls. In the eyes of Russians, the USA is the "main enemy," and therefore the Europeans can get away with aiding Ukraine in ways that the USA cannot.

I am truly sorry that Ronald Reagan is not alive at a time like this.

By and large I agree with you.
Funnily enough I shocked my American family over dinner a few nights ago expressing the same thought on Ronnie Reagan !!

At the very least-- US & others should be sliding in some sophisticated gadgetry to assist Ukrainian military-- and upping everything to standby position. A lot could be done relatively quietly--but also needs to be done fast. Fast in case the ante is upped from current status quo.

[jone]

I agree with the article and it is something that my wife has been telling me for a long time.  The Generals are corrupt and do not have a clue what to do …. and furthermore….don't even care. Just looking for another way to make money. We give them supplies…they sell them.

As far as Porshenko goes……my wife says he has sold out Ukraine and needs to be shot. She is not kidding either.

Is there a chance you could elaborate on exactly what she thinks he has done to 'sell out' Ukraine?  Does she think he has not done enough to halt the aggression?  Does she think he is corrupt?  Does she think that his posturing will not help Ukraine, but instead to more bloodshed?  What does she see as a possible solution to Ukraine's problems (aside from killing Poroshenko)?

[lordtiberius]

Thank you to those who commented.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is a concensus that a diplomatic solution with Putin is not possible.  A direct US intervention would trigger WW3.  WW3 would be nuclear if regionally.

Russia has breached NATO airspace 400 times in the last year.  Is that an act of war?  What should be done?

[papacool]

Important
Russian army enter in Donbass today.

[lordtiberius]

It is 2 battalions or 1200 men.  He is sending in his force piecemeal.  McDowell committed this
tactical stupidity during the first battle of Manassas.  He lost a lot of men in this charade.  For Putin to succeed he will need to commit his entire force and use his Air Force and Navy.  If the GRU cannot stabilize Syria, can they stabilize and conquer Ukraine?

[papacool]

NEWS: SEPARATISM 8930 15:33 | 19.01.2015
Two tactical groups of the Russian Armed forces invaded Ukraine

On Monday, January 19, two battalion-size task force of the Armed forces of the Russian Federation invaded the territory of Ukraine. About this marked "urgent" reported the press center of the NSDC.
"on January 19, recorded crossing the Ukrainian-Russian border two bataljona-tactical groups of the Armed forces of the Russian Federation", - said in a statement.

Note where the invasion, the Council did not specify.

As reported by the NBN, the Russian side continues to shift to the East of the Ukraine military equipment and manpower, but masks it with symbols of the Ukrainian army.

Note, grouping terrorist and combat units and the Russian Federation in the area of the ATO exceeded the number of Ukrainian troops. The President of Russia Vladimir Putin continues to tell the Russians that Ukraine is a civil war.

Earlier, the terrorists DND told that after six months of "new Russia" adopted from Russia 35 thousand mercenaries.

[papacool]

Advisor Putin said that Russian troops invade in Ukraine
George Dobryak January 19, 2015, 14:31 3 18 737 Print
Advisor Putin said that Russian troops invade in Ukraine
On the possible invasion of the Russian Federation said the Russian political scientist Markov, who is Vice-Rector of the University of Plekhanov. Markov calls himself an adviser of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Such news reports "Press Ukraine".

According to the adviser Putin, National Security Council Secretary Alexander Turchinov not holoslovyv when he said that the Russian army could launch a full-scale attack on the territory of Ukraine.

- Russian forces may be involved to help the New Army if pereozbroyatsya and Ukrainian forces will attack - said Putin adviser. - Some Russian military units were on Ukrainian territory, at least twice - in August and September.

Markov said that Putin originally wanted to expand the so-called "New Russia" and after winning the war in the Donbas, send fighters to Nikolaev, Odessa and Kharkov. However, according to the analyst, the Kremlin is now changing tactics of his people in the Donbass.

As previously reported "Press Ukraine", head of the National Security Council Alexander Turchinov said he did not rule out the possibility of beginning full-scale war against Ukraine. He said that on the eastern border of our country in full combat readiness is about 52 thousand Russian troops, more than 1,800 armored vehicles, 750 units of multiple launch rocket systems, combat aircraft and 360 helicopters, more than 300 tanks.

According to the head of the National Security Council, Russian Armed Forces can start large-scale military actions which could create a full-scale continental war.

In addition, now in all directions in the area of ATO and observed rearrangement buildup militants.

[lonedrake]

Is there a chance you could elaborate on exactly what she thinks he has done to 'sell out' Ukraine?  Does she think he has not done enough to halt the aggression?  Does she think he is corrupt?  Does she think that his posturing will not help Ukraine, but instead to more bloodshed?  What does she see as a possible solution to Ukraine's problems (aside from killing Poroshenko)?

Jone,  I asked her about your questions and 1/2 hour later she was still explaining to me. I will explain some of what she believes. Porshenko still has factories is Russia that operate. He does not want to lose these. He also has a factory in Ukraine that makes military parts and he still sells these parts to Russia. 23 countries have made sanctions on Russia, but Ukraine is not one of them.

He is looking out for his own interests first, along with the majority of the government. In a nutshell the government and the military are corrupt. She says there are 400 generals in Ukraine. They all have a full chest of medals…yet they have never been to war.

The only solution is another revolution. Marta says Putin and Porshenko speak by phone everyday and all people know about this.They are in business together.


Porshenko also gives tanks that look good on the outside…..but in reality it is just for show as they are not operational.

Now just this month Ukraine has started buying electric from Ukraine. They shoot us…we pay them.


Thats just a start. We must go. We are going to the lake….drive  truck out on the ice….do some fishing and then I will cut a large hole in the ice so she can jump in. No way in hell I am going to do this. But it is that day of the year.

 

[Muzh]

Jone,  I asked her about your questions and 1/2 hour later she was still explaining to me. I will explain some of what she believes. Porshenko still has factories is Russia that operate. He does not want to lose these. He also has a factory in Ukraine that makes military parts and he still sells these parts to Russia. 23 countries have made sanctions on Russia, but Ukraine is not one of them.

He is looking out for his own interests first, along with the majority of the government. In a nutshell the government and the military are corrupt. She says there are 400 generals in Ukraine. They all have a full chest of medals…yet they have never been to war.

The only solution is another revolution. Marta says Putin and Porshenko speak by phone everyday and all people know about this.They are in business together.


Porshenko also gives tanks that look good on the outside…..but in reality it is just for show as they are not operational.

Now just this month Ukraine has started buying electric from Ukraine. They shoot us…we pay them.


Thats just a start. We must go. We are going to the lake….drive  truck out on the ice….do some fishing and then I will cut a large hole in the ice so she can jump in. No way in hell I am going to do this. But it is that day of the year.

LD


I have heard the same from my inlaws. The exact same thing.


So I ask my SIL how she knows, where are the references and her response is very frank. Well, everybody knows that.


I tell her I understand that but, how did they find out? No answer. Just that I cannot read or understand Russian.


She knows exactly how I feel because I've been telling them for the last 15 years this day would come.


I'm not against Maidan at all. I was overjoyed they finally stood up to corruption. As a matter of fact, Kharkiv's Human Rights Ombudsman is a friend of mine. She has been to the front in Lughanks and Donetsk. We talk.


But, if you follow our own revolution, you'll see there were many "nebulous" patriots. They were a necessary evil.


Let's work on that after we cross that bridge. 

[papacool]

AkMike
I know a place very nice, near beach of Dnipro, near forest with mushrums, 3 kms from the wonderful city of Cherkassy. Many bus. Cherkassy is one of the best city I saw in all Ukraine. The number of shops is incredible. And very easy to go to Kiev or Borispyl.
Name of this place is Dakhnivs'kyi, it is just north from Cherkassy, after the big bridge, easy to find with google maps. The richest people are living in this village.

[jone]

I thought this is kind of funny:

Russia has been saying (for days now) that the Donetsk Airport is under Russian control.  As you may know, RT claims an English speaking viewership.  In some of their latest posts, they are claiming that the airport is under Separatist Control, but the pictures are originating from a supermarket, not the airport.

Attached is a picture:



Last time I was at the airport, I knew that the Boarding Lounge was labelled 'XLIB' or Bread and the arrivals section was labelled 'KVITI' or Flowers.  Way to go, Graham Phillips.  How stupid do you think we are?  (Don't answer that.)

[BillyB]

Putin has boxed himself into a corner--very dangerous situation at this point.

The West put him in a corner. Guess what happens when you back a cat into a corner? Putin should've been spanked in the beginning.

I think that it foolish for the West to send in the cavalry.

Many leaders of Western nations believe the same thing. Putin believes it and because he knows it, I believe he will proceed in taking other Eastern Europeans countries to be under his influence by changing their governments through rebellion and civil war when he's done with Ukraine. The West will eventually have to send in the cavalry and it'll be a much uglier fight. Time is not on the West's side. Putin will use time to plan, modernize and grow his military, and recruit other nations such as China, North Korea, and Iran to make moves the same time he does to deflect our attention away from the region. Mendy, the problem isn't going to go away with sanctions alone. One has to bring guns to a gun fight in order to win.

That could easily set off WWIII. Yes, it would turn nuclear, at least regionally.

If Putin uses tactical nukes, then the West is free to use tactical nukes on Putin's army. Nobody wins with nuclear war and Putin wants to win. I don't believe he will use nukes for offensive purposes but he will use it for defensive purposes if someone wants to invade Russia/Crimea. Putin will not lose Russia on his watch.

I am truly sorry that Ronald Reagan is not alive at a time like this,

Reagan would have taken a much harder stance in the beginning to show Putin lots of Russians will die if he proceeds with his goals. Putin would respect Reagan just as the old Soviet leaders did. Russians love men that are tough and they can respect. Putin is friends with Bush I and Bush II. He would love Reagan.

I will explain some of what she believes. Porshenko still has factories is Russia that operate. He does not want to lose these. He also has a factory in Ukraine that makes military parts and he still sells these parts to Russia. 23 countries have made sanctions on Russia, but Ukraine is not one of them.

He is looking out for his own interests first, along with the majority of the government. In a nutshell the government and the military are corrupt. She says there are 400 generals in Ukraine. They all have a full chest of medals…yet they have never been to war.

The only solution is another revolution. Marta says Putin and Porshenko speak by phone everyday and all people know about this.They are in business together.

With the little help Ukraine is getting, more and more people will think Ukraine's government under Poreshenko is dysfunctional and as bad as the last one. When Poreshenko was elected, I felt bad for him because it's like taking a coaching job for a losing team that had a history of losing.


It doesn't matter if what your wife believes is true or not true but if enough Ukrainians start believing that Ukraine's current government is just as bad as the last one, Putin will have the upper hand. If the Ukrainian people have any hope of getting out of Russia's influence, they need to hear propaganda. They need to believe their military is dominating fights and their government is making progress.

[BillyB]

Between January 13 and 14, Ukraine shrank by 300 kms during a so-called cease fire.

Where did you read that at? All we get here at the forum is articles stating Ukraine is dominating fights. When I provided articles that the rebels took real estate at the airport, you didn't believe but you now believe they took square 300 km of real estate?

[AC]

Putin has boxed himself into a corner--very dangerous situation at this point.

I think that it foolish for the West to send in the cavalry. That could easily set off WWIII. Yes, it would turn nuclear, at least regionally.

At the same time, it would be even more foolish to play the part of Neville Chamberlain: see my detailed response to Father Time in another thread.

I think that Ukraine needs to have the resources and ability to defend herself, and that Europe should step up, big time, to help faciliate this. At this juncture, the Europeans, although they often have weak stomachs for conflict (which gets them into trouble in the first place), need to grow some balls. In the eyes of Russians, the USA is the "main enemy," and therefore the Europeans can get away with aiding Ukraine in ways that the USA cannot.

I am truly sorry that Ronald Reagan is not alive at a time like this, but glad that Angela Merkel is watching closely. She may, if she accepts the assignment, end up being the Margaret Thatcher of our time.

Great post!   

[Belvis]

I thought this is kind of funny:

Russia has been saying (for days now) that the Donetsk Airport is under Russian control.  As you may know, RT claims an English speaking viewership.  In some of their latest posts, they are claiming that the airport is under Separatist Control, but the pictures are originating from a supermarket, not the airport.

Attached is a picture:



Last time I was at the airport, I knew that the Boarding Lounge was labelled 'XLIB' or Bread and the arrivals section was labelled 'KVITI' or Flowers.  Way to go, Graham Phillips.  How stupid do you think we are?  (Don't answer that.)

Sorry to say, John, but stupid enough 
Now see the twitter of Graham Phillips: http://twitter.com/grahamwp_uk

Graham Phillips @GrahamWP_UK  ·  Jan 18

The Metro supermarket next to Donetsk airport today. Video to come. No sign of any Ukraine forces on the territory.

You see why we considered you  naive and easy manipulated? 
As for Donetsk airport this question is closed, rebels has advanced beyond it already, and you'll  know about but later than others.

[jone]

As for the Donetsk Airport, you are there and can confirm?  Hmm? 

The fog of war must be really thick where you are.  Because for days RT has been saying that the Russian Army Separatists are in control of it.  And then we see explosions in real time at the airport.  They must be blowing each other up.   

Well, actually, not a bad idea.   

As for the pictures, those are the same ones that I saw.  So what?  If Russian forces were in control of the airport, he would be filming from there.  Duh!

[Muzh]

The West put him in a corner. Blah, Blah, Blah....

Dude, you live in a fantasy world.


Or maybe you like macho man? Is that it?

[AC]

I thought this is kind of funny:

Russia has been saying (for days now) that the Donetsk Airport is under Russian control.  As you may know, RT claims an English speaking viewership.  In some of their latest posts, they are claiming that the airport is under Separatist Control, but the pictures are originating from a supermarket, not the airport.

Attached is a picture:



Last time I was at the airport, I knew that the Boarding Lounge was labelled 'XLIB' or Bread and the arrivals section was labelled 'KVITI' or Flowers.  Way to go, Graham Phillips.  How stupid do you think we are?  (Don't answer that.)

Very interesting.  Did you hear that the Green Bay Packers lost the NFC championship game?  Talk about a come from ahead defeat...

[jone]

 

[lordtiberius]

Poroshenko fires a General
http://ukraineenglishnewsforum.createaforum.com/general-discussion/on-a-bribe-of-230-thousand-uah-arrested-the-chief-of-the-national-guard/new/#new

[AC]

I was probably more shocked then you were.

[mendeleyev]

Porshenko still has factories is Russia that operate. He does not want to lose these.

Absolutely incorrect, with all due respect.

Roshen products are banned in Russia, supposedly due to "packaging problems." In fact, Putin blames Ukraine (and Kazakhstan) anytime Russian inspectors discovers Roshen inventory on store shelves. But that inventory is supposedly dwindling due to no resupply since the ban in July 2013. However, Roshen still has plants in places like Kazakhstan, Armenia, Moldova and Uzbekistan. The Kremlin and Kazakh/Armenians are having a little spat about those factories as the Kremlin claims that they are still exporting Roshen products into Russia via cover of the customs-free status of the Eurasian Union.

No, Roshen does not have factories in Russia. His only Russian factory, Lipestk, was closed by the Russian government, and the factory manager was arrested and charged with illegal use of a registered trademark.

He also has a factory in Ukraine that makes military parts and he still sells these parts to Russia.

Not true.

Ukraine has munitions factories that used to sell military parts to Russia. In fact, up until events of the Crimean annexation, these were Russia's most important suppliers. Ukrainian forces bombed the Donetsk factory that had been captured by Russian terrorists.

Fact: Poroshenko banned ALL such sales to Russia, at a cost of $15+ BILLION to the Ukrianian economy. (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0617/Why-Ukraine-s-freeze-on-arms-sales-to-Russia-will-hurt-Kiev-too)

23 countries have made sanctions on Russia, but Ukraine is not one of them.

Sorry, and hope this doesn't cause friction at home, but this is incorrect.

First, see the response immediately above.

Secondly, Russia has Ukraine by the balls. Russia is Ukraine's largest export market and has enacted bans against Ukrainian products, claiming that the bans are not exactly sanctions, but instead are due to customs issues. Naturally, all that would be cleared up if simply Ukraine would drop any EU aspirations and come join Russia's Eurasion Union. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/exports


The result of Ukrainian sanctions against Russia may be a better deal for Ukraine than for Russia, if European markets make good on promises to buy Ukrainian products originally bound for Russia. http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/anders-aslund-what-will-happen-to-russian-ukrainian-trade-after-the-war-in-donbass-366864.html

He is looking out for his own interests first, along with the majority of the government. In a nutshell the government and the military are corrupt. She says there are 400 generals in Ukraine. They all have a full chest of medals…yet they have never been to war.

Poroshenko is the first prez in Ukraine in a long time that has no need to use poor Ukrainians to build a personal fortune. He serves at great personal cost, in reality. The loss of his Russian factory, and the ban on his products in Russia, have hurt Roshen financially.

She is right about much of the Ukrainian military structure. The Rada (parliament) is addressing this and the government has been making progress in reforming the military. They simply have no choice but to reform given the current crisis.

Marta says Putin and Porshenko speak by phone everyday and all people know about this.They are in business together.

No, they do not speak "ever day." I have access to the phone logs on both sides of this issue, as do others in the credentialed press pools. If there were daily little cozy calls, the Western press would be all over it. One could claim the same of Obama and Putin, or of Merkel and Putin, since they speak often. Nobody claims that Putin and Obama are secretly in business together.

Porshenko also gives tanks that look good on the outside…..but in reality it is just for show as they are not operational.

That is a persistent rumour, but it is wrong. I've seen those tanks, several times, and have watched them start up and drive away. The fumes from the exhaust of these supposedly "not operational" tanks make me choke, frankly. The tank factory in Kharkiv actually puts out a much better product these days. http://www.malyshevplant.com/

Now just this month Ukraine has started buying electric from Ukraine. They shoot us…we pay them.

Did she mean that Ukraine buys electricity from Russia?

Left over from the Soviet times, the Ukrainian and Russian power grids are intertwined. Traditionally it is Ukraine who has produced and exported electricity to Russia via this grid. However, that electric has come from coal, and the Donbas region has mined that coal. Now, Ukraine has a coal shortage and in November the government approved a one-time purchase of coal from Russia because of that shortage.

As to the Donbas needs for Russian electricity, Kyiv's response has been to let those "independent" folks pay for it themselves. Instead, Putin has whined and threatened Ukraine for not providing budget to maintain those "separate" and "independent" regions.

It is Crimea that needs Ukrainian electricity, not the other way around, in that geographic region.


I can appreciate and understand your wife's angst. Much of the disinformation and confusion is a result of decades of corruption and suspicion, well deserved by the way, amongst good and decent ordinary Ukrainian citizens. However, it is truth and facts that will allow all Ukrainians to someday enjoy a more transparent and fair society. They simply cannot attain that while living under the shadow of a corrupt neighbor.

[Brasscasing]

Sorry to say, John, but stupid enough 
Now see the twitter of Graham Phillips: http://twitter.com/grahamwp_uk

You see why we considered you  naive and easy manipulated? 
As for Donetsk airport this question is closed, rebels has advanced beyond it already, and you'll  know about but later than others.

Graham Phillips by most accounts is considered at best a biased reporter at worst a disinformation agent. He's currently reporting as a free lance journalist contracted by RT. Some peg him as a disinformation agent working for the Russians.

Anything this guy reports, any pics he produces are probably slanted or bogus and should be viewed with suspicion. He's well known in the Ukraine Gov't/terrorist war zones and according to his own blogs/tweets and reports/stories covering him by other journalists has free run of the terrorist lines.

Phillips himself has become somewhat of a celebrity among the Russians and population of Russian held Ukraine. ie. he was injured last year and Pravda published this piece on him...

..."British Journalist Graham Phillips Injured

British born journalist, Graham W. Phillips, has been observing and reporting events in Novorossiya.  He bravely accompanies defense forces to the front lines and conducts interviews with civilians who have been suffering from attacks with military hardware ever since the people's democratically elected government was overthrown by US trained agents.

Despite a "ceasefire," attacks by junta forces continue and Graham was injured today in Pieski village, near the town of Donetsk. A mine splinter punched out his bullet-proof vest.  After the injury, he was pictured walking with the assistance of defense forces.  He was saved by wearing a bullet-proof vest that was clearly marked "Press."

At the hospital, he underwent a body scan and surgery.  The news from the hospital: "The injury is not serious. He'll be on his feet soon. A mine splinter lost impulse because of his bullet-proof vest and entered in his soft tissues."

It is expected he will be kept in the hospital for 5 days.

It is noteworthy that while the Kiev junta imprisons, deports and murders journalists, the defense forces of Novorossiya welcome anyone who will come and observe what is really happening.  There is no freedom of the press wherever the junta and its forces maintain control.  Several Russian and foreign journalists have been murdered and Russian journalists are totally banned from reporting events in the former Ukraine.

It's a dangerous situation, but Graham Phillips has the honor, caring, decency and professionalism to put himself in harm's way to report the truth.

 Graham was about to take a short respite to visit his family in the United Kingdom.

In Novorossiya and around the world, wishes for his speedy recovery have been pouring in.

Lisa Karpova

Pravda.Ru"...

http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/25-11-2014/129116-graham_phillips-0/#.VL1u4ul0zMw

He apparently was deported from free Ukraine after being arrested for being where he shouldn't have been filming then wrote about it which was also carried by Pravda...

http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/05-08-2014/128216-graham_phillips-0/

Mendy, do you know this guy and if so what's your take on him?

Brass
 

[AkMike]

Brass, it appears that he's F.O.S.!