Ukraine is losing the war

[Doll]

Here is President Poroshenko's speech.





BTW, my husband tells me that soldiers are given their passports at times.

And travel passports as well?
Poroshenko is lying

[Boethius]

HOW DO YOU KNOW?
From Facebook?

I don't have a facebook account. 


If there were a significant number of foreigners fighting for Ukraine, there would be dead/wounded soldiers from foreign countries.  There are not.  There are some Chechens fighting among Ukrainian troops, but there are more Chechen mercenaries fighting (for pay) for the terrorists.  Even the terrorists admit that the numbers from Russia are higher than locals.

[Boethius]

Alsom there is NOOOOOOOOOOOO way soldiers have travel passports (Poroshenko shows 3 of them)

Listen to his speech.  He notes that some of those fighting are mercenaries.

[Boethius]

The bottom line is, Russia is supplying the terrorists with arms, with money, and with fighters.  That is Poroshenko's point.   Everyone knows it. 

[lordtiberius]

How many Mongolians live in Eastern Ukraine, Doll?

[onlyFSU4me]

Alsom there is NOOOOOOOOOOOO way soldiers have travel passports (Poroshenko shows 3 of them)

 But if they don't have passports, how would they get let back into Russia when they get lost in Ukraine while training?   

[Doll]

 But if they don't have passports, how would they get let back into Russia when they get lost in Ukraine while training?   

You don't need your travel passport if you travel from Russia to Ukraine and vice versa People use their "domestic" passports.

[Doll]

Listen to his speech.  He notes that some of those fighting are mercenaries.

He is lying

[Boethius]

So where is the money coming to fight this war?  Where is the military equipment coming from?  Tanks r us?  On credit?

[Doll]

So where is the money coming to fight this war?  Where is the military equipment coming from?  Tanks r us?  On credit?

Are you asking ME????

[Boethius]

Yes.  If the money and equipment is not coming from Russia, where is it coming from?  A bunch of miners don't have the funds to fund that war, and they certainly didn't build the sophisticated Russian equipment they have.  They also can't operate it.

[steveh1155]

Изумруд, Russian soldiers don't have passports - passports are taken from them at the moment they start serving. They have them back after they are done serving. It is the law.

This is NOT TRUE!

[fathertime]

I don't have a facebook account. 


If there were a significant number of foreigners fighting for Ukraine, there would be dead/wounded soldiers from foreign countries.  There are not.  There are some Chechens fighting among Ukrainian troops, but there are more Chechen mercenaries fighting (for pay) for the terrorists.  Even the terrorists admit that the numbers from Russia are higher than locals.

This is of interest...Ukraine ( a country that is broke) is paying mercenaries to fight FOR them....all the while young, able bodied Ukrainian men are walking the streets and frequenting the night clubs....and walking past fellow Ukrainian dead/dying bodies in the streets rather ho-hum like.    Something is wrong with this picture...WE the US don't need to get too involved.


Fathertime!

[Boethius]

I didn't post that Ukraine is paying mercenaries.  The Chechens fighting for Ukraine are not paid.  Ukraine is not paying anyone to fight.  The separatist side is, though.  They also have volunteers.

[Изумруд]

And travel passports as well?
Poroshenko is lying

So, is Zakharchenko lying too?

[fathertime]

I didn't post that Ukraine is paying mercenaries.  The Chechens fighting for Ukraine are not paid.  Ukraine is not paying anyone to fight.  The separatist side is, though.  They also have volunteers.

Thank you, my mistake...I did find that it rather shocking when I read it....but I see I misread what you wrote. 




Fathertime!

[calmissile]

A great speech by Poroshenko.   I hope at least some of Western media carry the whole speech.  I am surprised at how good his English is.

I also like how he is direct and to the point without propaganda or BS attached to it.  We will see if Europe wakes up to realize that if Ukraine fails, other parts of Europe will be next.

[JayH]

I don't have a facebook account. 


If there were a significant number of foreigners fighting for Ukraine, there would be dead/wounded soldiers from foreign countries.  There are not.  There are some Chechens fighting among Ukrainian troops, but there are more Chechen mercenaries fighting (for pay) for the terrorists.  Even the terrorists admit that the numbers from Russia are higher than locals.

There is regular Russian army battalion from Chechnya-to be clear on that point.This article also covers some of the volunteers from Chechnya fighting for Ukraine.
So the situation is this-
1/ Chechen fighting as volunteer for Ukraine ( very few in numbers)
2/Chechen mercenaries thugs fighting for Russia
3/Chechen Russian Army Battalions-- obviously fighting for Russia  ( there may be more than 2-- checking now)
4/This report details Chechens fighting for Ukraine--I want to check this in detail-- or whether this report is a piece of Russian propaganda

Two Battalions of Chechens Now Fighting  in Ukraine

1Reading the Ukrainian media earlier this year gave one the impression that Ukraine was fighting not Russia, but Chechnya (vesti.ru, May 28). Few doubted that Chechens were fighting on the Russian side in eastern Ukraine, but their numbers were greatly exaggerated. The deployment of Russian military units from Chechnya in Ukraine (kavkazcenter.com, August was perceived as the deployment of Chechen military units even though the percentage of ethnic Chechens in those units barely reached 1 percent of their total. Those forces also sometimes were referred to as “kadyrovtsy,” but that was also incorrect, since the units sent to Ukraine were from the defense ministry, not the interior ministry, where the kadyrovtsy actually serve.

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=43062&no_cache=1

[Doll]

A great speech by Poroshenko.   I hope at least some of Western media carry the whole speech.  I am surprised at how good his English is.

I also like how he is direct and to the point without propaganda or BS attached to it.  We will see if Europe wakes up to realize that if Ukraine fails, other parts of Europe will be next.

He has BS in his hands.

[JayH]

Yes.  If the money and equipment is not coming from Russia, where is it coming from?  A bunch of miners don't have the funds to fund that war, and they certainly didn't build the sophisticated Russian equipment they have.  They also can't operate it.

How much space is wasted on the 3% here who persist in denying the obvious reality.Putin's strategy of denial works everywhere as it allows the Kremlin choice of ground to dispute-ie-- in this case "Russian troops in Ukraine" and not what should be discussed--ie  why are there Russian troops in Ukraine.
Constant misinformation is thrown out-- eg-- the aircraft issue-signalled that use of Russian aircraft is looming  -- and in the story below-- the idea of much larger numbers that will soon appear-- the ground work to say they are" local volunteers' is being laid.
What is amazing-- is how much traction the nonsense emanating out of the Kremlin gets in the media-- and everywhere!

If Ukraine’s Separatists Get Their “100,000 Volunteers,” They May Be Mostly Russian Soldiers
That leaves foreign volunteers, both the “vacationing” Russian soldiers and ideologically-inspired war tourists. By any realistic measure, any meaningful jump in numbers of separatist combatants would have to come from such volunteers, whatever their motivations, coming to join the fight. There again, however, the issue is that most of the non-financially motivated “tourists” have already came and compose a large portion of the separatists fighting capability.

That leaves the injection of Russian troops, most likely in the form of autonomous Battalion Tactical Groups (about 600-800 soldiers) injected to tip the scales in the separatists favor, which would compose most of this new mobilized force. However, the introduction of that number (or any in the tens of thousands) means that any shred of plausible deniability that the Kremlin is so admirably clinging to would be gone. Soldier’s families are already starting to grumble about the loss of soldiers in Ukraine (and even about the mobilization of Russian soldiers into the Rostov region on Ukraine’s border) and the calls over even more deaths would be problematic for the Kremlin.

http://www.interpretermag.com/if-ukraines-separatists-get-their-100000-volunteers-they-may-be-mostly-russian-soldiers/

[JayH]

HOW DO YOU KNOW?
From Facebook?

Doll-- when 97% of the world is believing something-chances are it is correct.The problem you have is that you believe Putin and Kremlin lies -- above any common sense of recognising the obvious.
By far the bigger question is "why are they there"?\
Load 200 Evidence of military aggression in eastern Ukraine
Russia is trying to hide from their people into the death of Russian citizens in Ukraine. Introduced criminal scheme piminy documents the bodies of Russians.
"This Russian command substitution criminal scheme introduced documents on the bodies of Russians, from May 2014 sent from Ukraine to the specially-created center in Rostov-on-Don. In military jargon -" Freight-200 "," - said in a statement .
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ato/rf-prihovuye-zagibel-rosiyan-v-donbasi-pidminyayuchi-dokumenti-zagiblih-sbu-407830.html

[AkMike]

Alsom there is NOOOOOOOOOOOO way soldiers have travel passports (Poroshenko shows 3 of them)

 And this knowledge is based on how many years of service that you had in the USSR/Russia's army? Or did you find that on facebook?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Doll-- when 97% of the world is believing something-chances are it is correct.The problem you have is that you believe Putin and Kremlin lies -- above any common sense of recognising the obvious.

You mean like the time 99% of the people thought the world was flat? 

[AkMike]

You don't need your travel passport if you travel from Russia to Ukraine and vice versa People use their "domestic" passports.

 IIRC that changed Feb. 1.

[lordtiberius]

You mean like the time 99% of the people thought the world was flat?

You exaggerate.  No surprise.  But if you want to discard lex parsimoniae for your fantasy of non-Russian aggression and non-Russian invasion, you will have to do so over these stacks of dead bodies.