Minsk, round two

[JayH]

US releases satellite images with Russian armaments.  You know, the ones Russia says were not in Ukraine. -


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/world/europe/us-says-images-show-russian-armaments-near-embattled-ukraine-town.html?_r=0

I referred to this in another thread about  State Department briefing-where spokesman was questioned on exactly whose images they were.
It is significant development ie  Official US acknowledgement of Russian invasion in eastern . Painfully slow process for some of us--but close now to a decision to do something about it.
http://twitter.com/USEmbRu/status/566550115771748352

[The Natural]

Unlike you, I watch multiple news sources, including Russian ones.  You're just a typical ignoramus who resorts to insults or threats when they get challenged on the nonsense they write.  What are you gonna do?  Threaten to beat me and everyone else black and blue who challenges you on what you write?  That says everything we need to know about you.

I take back what I wrote, you actually sound like a real funny guy.
For Your information:
I'm daily fed the western propaganda of anti-Russian Speech on national TV and radio. But I Balance that With my own Sources online, mostly the so-called alternative media because all mainstream media is for different reasons true to the officially sanctioned dogma.

Treaten to beat you? What are you talking about? First, I'm a peaceful guy who never use violence except in self-defence. Second, how can I treaten anyone I don't even know where lives? Or you think I have the time and the Money to Chase assholes to beat up? Come on.

If you read a little history here you will see that some insist on posting after they have a skinful!! At the best of times they make zero sense--but pissed-well!!

Here's a Perfect example of being "Passive agressive". Hey Jay, if you want a piece of me, address me personally, not through proxies. But I Guess that's what you learned from Your heroes, use proxies!

[lordtiberius]

Natural, you see this whole situation as a US provocation?

[Doll]

Fear to ask- what is "treaten "? My poor English))))

[The Natural]

Natural, you see this whole situation as a US provocation?

Yes. This is a Proxy war on Russia who has become strong enough to oppose Washington's policies around the world, such as With Iran and Syria.

USA is still the issuer of the worlds reserve currency, the US dollar, so it can fund endless Groups around the world to do it's bidding, as it did the past decade in Ukraine, admittedly spending 5 billion dollars on anti-government NGO's that finally succeeded last year.

[lordtiberius]

How exactly is this a US proxy war?

[Изумруд]

I take back what I wrote, you actually sound like a real funny guy.
For Your information:
I'm daily fed the western propaganda of anti-Russian Speech on national TV and radio. But I Balance that With my own Sources online, mostly the so-called alternative media because all mainstream media is for different reasons true to the officially sanctioned dogma.

Treaten to beat you? What are you talking about? First, I'm a peaceful guy who never use violence except in self-defence. Second, how can I treaten anyone I don't even know where lives? Or you think I have the time and the Money to Chase assholes to beat up? Come on.

Look, I read what you wrote a couple of weeks ago on here; to who, I can't remember, but that's irrelevant, it's water off a duck's back to me.  I don't have any problem with someone holding an opinion that is different to mine, [after all we're here to discuss] but use sources to give your pov credence; or articulate your thoughts/beliefs in an appropriate way.  If you want to criticize Western propaganda fair enough; however,  if you think Western propaganda is bad, Russian propaganda is on another level; or do you believe vesti and the like are credible sources?

[Изумруд]

Fear to ask- what is "treaten "? My poor English))))

Doll, add an h, then you'll understand, i.e. threaten.   

[The Natural]

How exactly is this a US proxy war?

Again, I was timed out here after writing in lenght. I'm sure you would understand my not wanting to do it all over again, it's getting late. I feel this timing out when you have to log on again and all is erased is a pretty bad feature, to put it mildly.

Look, I read what you wrote a couple of weeks ago on here; to who, I can't remember, but that's irrelevant, it's water off a duck's back to me.  I don't have any problem with someone holding an opinion that is different to mine, [after all we're here to discuss] but use sources to give your pov credence; or articulate your thoughts/beliefs in an appropriate way.  If you want to criticize Western propaganda fair enough.   However,  if you think Western propaganda is bad, Russian propaganda is on another level, or do you believe vesti and the like are credible sources?

Good and appropriate response. Shows it's possible to reply Without personal insults and labelling. Some might learn something here.

Use Sources? Would be glad to, but here it's useless because it will always be dismissed as "controversial", "conspiracy theory" or something like that, by the ones disagreeing.
It is sometimes also frowned upon because some People prefer posters to discuss matters in their own Words. I can understand that as some here are constantly copying News, one after another endlessly.
Besides, it takes a lot of time throwing Pearls for swines.

Appropriate, Im appropriate to those that are appropriate to me. Sometimes personal insults gets me carried away in my responses, and I've been told that is just what certain individuals are after; not on-topic discussions but creating trouble. I'm also pretty certain some are eating popcorn and being real entertained by all the commotion. I Guess that's just part of the human condition. It's however not something I'm out here deliberately creating. I'm basically a Nice guy, believe it or not.

Propaganda; yes, sure, there's also Russian propaganda. There's a lot wrong in Russia. But I don't think we here in the west are in any position to go around the world lecturing everybodty else how they should conduct their business. We have a lot of Things to improve in Our own countries. Let's put Our Resources to use at home. Period!

[lordtiberius]

I am trying to understand your point of view.  I know what it looks like when America spends a billion dollars a day to defeat an insurgency.  You accuse the US of engineering the whole thing.  I asked you for proof you cannot provide it.  Either change your thesis or provide proof

[The Natural]

I am trying to understand your point of view.  I know what it looks like when America spends a billion dollars a day to defeat an insurgency.  You accuse the US of engineering the whole thing.  I asked you for proof you cannot provide it.  Either change your thesis or provide proof

Oh, I thought you asked my opinion, not proof. Do you know how difficult it is to provide real proof of like...anything? I mean, there's still no proof of regular Russian troops in Ukraine. Only the weekly announcements from Kiev that x thousand troops from Russia has invaded. We know the US have eyes in the sky and as it's in the interests of Washington, I'm pretty sure we'd had some pretty Clear satelitte Pictures long ago.


As for proof of the US involvement of the Maidan coup, see the Victoria Nuland video Clips, it's old News.

[lordtiberius]

As for proof of the US involvement of the Maidan coup, see the Victoria Nuland video Clips, it's old News.

That's your proof?

When the US invaded Iraq, we spent a billion dollars a day.  Our troops were all over Iraq.  Thousands of us lived there for years.  So yes, you could say we were involved in the overthrow Iraq.  Where is your proof that happened in Ukraine?  Where is your proof that we are maintaining that regime?

Under the Obama Administration there is proof we overthrew governments all across the Muslim world, we gave them millions if not billions in aid packages.  Yet, we have done nothing in Ukraine except voice or "deep concern."  Do you object to that?

[The Natural]

That's your proof?

When the US invaded Iraq, we spent a billion dollars a day.  Our troops were all over Iraq.  Thousands of us lived there for years.  So yes, you could say we were involved in the overthrow Iraq.  Where is your proof that happened in Ukraine?  Where is your proof that we are maintaining that regime?

Under the Obama Administration there is proof we overthrew governments all across the Muslim world, we gave them millions if not billions in aid packages.  Yet, we have done nothing in Ukraine except voice or "deep concern."  Do you object to that?

First, there's the 5 billion used over the years (Your tax dollars) to NGO's to work for regime change. As times went by, the political situation change. Russia became more powerful and a more Direct approach was used to get the regime change going. But that was not enough, a co-operation was needed, and given, by the EU, who, as good servants to The Empire, did as they were told and put on sanctions and to hell With their own economical interests in doing business With Russia. USA lost nothing as they have little business With Russia.

That's the problem With you Americans; you only see a problem from Your side because you think it's the ONLY side.

Deep concern? Yeah, it's so deep that Washington is dying to escalate the war in Ukraine by sending in weapons made in USA to kill Europeans. Do you guys in here really want to support a policy that might send us all into WW3?

[Faux Pas]

Putin might want them, if for nothing else than the area being a buffer zone towards the west. I don't know what the majority of People in Donbass want, but I reckon the best would be do like Crimea, vote to be a part of Russia. Ukraine is a failed state without any hope at all, in Our Lifetime, to come even Close to anything like western countries. Austerity and looting of the land is the future for them. Bright Young Ukrainians will flee if they can. What will be left is all those who cannot flee, cursing the day they cheered for Maidan. Western Companies harvesting all the Natural Resources and leaving ordinary folks in poverty. Donbass would do much better to go to Russia.

Roy you know I love and respect you bruddah, I do. I also know your mind is more brilliant and open than you are projecting here or on this subject in general. I love Russia, my wife is Russian and I have many Russian friends. I also see the evil that is Putin and the forces at play in Ukraine. There is enough guilt to go around the globe but, the bottom line in Ukraine today is that there is wholesale murder going on and Putin is the driver and doing it with a false pretense and false flag. Putin is making a statement to the West with the blood of Ukraine. It's wrong on every level.

Donbass, Mariupol and the East of Ukraine is Ukraine. Russia and Putin have absolutely no business or authority shelling, bombing or firing on or in Ukraine. No more than the Swedes have encroaching into Norway. Ukraine has as much hope to self determination as any other country on in the world without interference from Russia and Putin's ambitions IMHO

[fathertime]

Oh, I thought you asked my opinion, not proof. Do you know how difficult it is to provide real proof of like...anything? 

That is why it is very good when a man on the inside comes forward with real evidence like E. Snowden.  Without evidence, nobody would have believed him, you, or anyone else, if it was stated that the USA was listening on Merkel's cell phone, or that we were listening in on the Mexican and Brazilian presidents phone calls.  What type of unfair advantage did that give us? We even spied on poor little Norway.   Given that Snowden couldn't have known everything, that puts almost everything else on the table as possible.  Nuland (something we were never supposed to know of) was probably just the tip of the iceberg as to what our involvement was/is/will be.       


Fathertime!   

[The Natural]

Roy you know I love and respect you bruddah, I do. I also know your mind is more brilliant and open than you are projecting here or on this subject in general. I love Russia, my wife is Russian and I have many Russian friends. I also see the evil that is Putin and the forces at play in Ukraine. There is enough guilt to go around the globe but, the bottom line in Ukraine today is that there is wholesale murder going on and Putin is the driver and doing it with a false pretense and false flag. Putin is making a statement to the West with the blood of Ukraine. It's wrong on every level.

Donbass, Mariupol and the East of Ukraine is Ukraine. Russia and Putin have absolutely no business or authority shelling, bombing or firing on or in Ukraine. No more than the Swedes have encroaching into Norway. Ukraine has as much hope to self determination as any other country on in the world without interference from Russia and Putin's ambitions IMHO

Hi FP and respect from me right back at you. Since I joined RWD a few years back I noticed you as a wise and good guy, always willing to give very good advice to the New guy. So I have the deepest respect for a man of Your Caliber, but as you know, we don't see eye to eye on this Ukraine situation. That's okay by me, I still think we can be friends and be jolly together on other matters 

I won't reply to you on the terrible tragedy of the situation going on, both for Ukrainians and Russians. Let's not quarrel. As for the Swedes, we've forgiven them by now. It helps to beat them mightily in cross-country skiing. By the way, congratulations to the US in Beaver Creek on Ted Ligety's world championships gold in the giant slalom. But maybe that's no News in the South, hehe. It's VERY important sports News up here in the North.

[Faux Pas]

That is why it is very good when a man on the inside comes forward with real evidence like E. Snowden.  Without evidence, nobody would have believed him, you, or anyone else, if it was stated that the USA was listening on Merkel's cell phone, or that we were listening in on the Mexican and Brazilian presidents phone calls.  What type of unfair advantage did that give us? We even spied on poor little Norway.   Given that Snowden couldn't have known everything, that puts almost everything else on the table as possible.  Nuland (something we were never supposed to know of) was probably just the tip of the iceberg as to what our involvement was/is/will be.       


Fathertime!

Do you think the U.S. and the NSA are the only agency and country to spy on the populous?

[Faux Pas]

Hi FP and respect from me right back at you. Since I joined RWD a few years back I noticed you as a wise and good guy, always willing to give very good advice to the New guy. So I have the deepest respect for a man of Your Caliber, but as you know, we don't see eye to eye on this Ukraine situation. That's okay by me, I still think we can be friends and be jolly together on other matters 

I won't reply to you on the terrible tragedy of the situation going on, both for Ukrainians and Russians. Let's not quarrel. As for the Swedes, we've forgiven them by now. It helps to beat them mightily in cross-country skiing. By the way, congratulations to the US in Beaver Creek on Ted Ligety's world championships gold in the giant slalom. But maybe that's no News in the South, hehe. It's VERY important sports News up here in the North.

Fair enough 

[fathertime]

Do you think the U.S. and the NSA are the only agency and country to spy on the populous?

I was not referring to the populous, it was the leaders of Germany, Mexico, and Brazil. 


In reference to your question, No I don't think our govt. is the only one spying on it's own people...although we obviously took it much further.


Fathertime!   

[Faux Pas]

I was not referring to the populous, it was the leaders of Germany, Mexico, and Brazil. 


In reference to your question, No I don't think our govt. is the only one spying on it's own people...although we obviously took it much further.


Fathertime!   

Just because the other 1st world nations haven't had a whistle blower doesn't mean they are just as adapt to surveillance as the NSA.

[BillyB]

I was not referring to the populous, it was the leaders of Germany, Mexico, and Brazil. 


In reference to your question, No I don't think our govt. is the only one spying on it's own people...although we obviously took it much further. 

Spying on friendly world leaders is common among those who have the technology to do so. I don't believe America is taking it much further than other friendly nations. We do have the edge in technology though. In the below article you'll find Germany was caught spying on our leaders and on Turkey. That we know. Who knows what we don't know?


http://intelnews.org/2014/08/18/01-1535/

[JayH]

As anticipated--Putin persists in ridiculous denials-- so whatever happens it is nothing to do with him !!

""We just can not do it physically, because Russia is not a party to the conflict", - he added.


Putin said that Russia - not parties to the conflict in the Donbas, because the deal will not perform


Today, February 13, a spokesman Dmitry Peskov, Putin said that Russia is the guarantor of Ukrainian settlement, not the party that performs a set of measures aimed at it. "Russia - a country which aims parties to the conflict. It is a country that urged the parties to the conflict to sign a package of measures to implement the agreements Minsk. But Russia is not a party to perform this set of measures. It is a country that is the guarantor acting upon, but certainly is not the party that should take action on this, "- said Peskov.

 http://tsn.ua/politika/u-putina-zayaviv-scho-rf-ne-uchasnik-konfliktu-na-donbasi-tomu-vikonuvati-ugodu-ne-bude-409113.html

[lordtiberius]

First, there's the 5 billion used over the years (Your tax dollars) to NGO's to work for regime change. As times went by, the political situation change. Russia became more powerful and a more Direct approach was used to get the regime change going. But that was not enough, a co-operation was needed, and given, by the EU, who, as good servants to The Empire, did as they were told and put on sanctions and to hell With their own economical interests in doing business With Russia. USA lost nothing as they have little business With Russia.

That's the problem With you Americans; you only see a problem from Your side because you think it's the ONLY side.

Deep concern? Yeah, it's so deep that Washington is dying to escalate the war in Ukraine by sending in weapons made in USA to kill Europeans. Do you guys in here really want to support a policy that might send us all into WW3?

Is it possible you are exaggerating US influence in Ukraine?  We sent $5 B over 20 years.  Its really nothing.  More Americans are Polish or Russian than Ukrainian.  And if you buy the thesis that we overthrew Yanukovych, we have done little to reinforce or profit from or investment m

[Doll]

Doll, add an h, then you'll understand, i.e. threaten.   

It was misspelled so many times that I had to check it on google

[fathertime]

Just because the other 1st world nations haven't had a whistle blower doesn't mean they are just as adapt to surveillance as the NSA.

That may be true, if so it puts 2nd or 3rd world nations at a further competitive disadvantage. 

Spying on friendly world leaders is common among those who have the technology to do so. I don't believe America is taking it much further than other friendly nations. We do have the edge in technology though. In the below article you'll find Germany was caught spying on our leaders and on Turkey. That we know. Who knows what we don't know?


http://intelnews.org/2014/08/18/01-1535/

I guess dishonestly is built into our way of life. 


Fathertime!