REALITY CHECK!

[FSUrookie]

REALITY CHECK!

Hello to all! I must say, these RWD discussion forum postings have been very interesting and informative. I think forums like this help to make better and wiser decisions for men traveling to FSU countries to meet what they hope will be the woman of their dreams.

With that said, I will now raise some interesting points, and it is my hope that there will be some feedback that will be beneficial to all of us men who are considering travel, or have perhaps traveled to FSU countries once or twice.

Let me begin by saying, forgive me if I repeat points brought up in previous posts, but though I have read many of the hundreds of posts on here, I simply do not have time to read them all, and often, situations discussed on here change with the times and thus need further examination and discussion. Finally, thanks to everyone who takes the time to post their experiences and comments on here. It all helps to educate everyone for the better in the long run.

THE RULES, MYTHS, and EXCEPTIONS

I have been to Ukraine and Russia once each. My personal experiences have shown me that every type of woman you can think of exists in FSU countries, just as the variety exists here in the USA as well. The difference seems to be how the percentages break down. I met one woman in Russia (Krasnodar), and all she was concerned about was money. She really felt that her beauty could get her anything she wanted, till she met me. I shoot straight from the hip. I kept telling her that any good man, including myself, would take care of her needs, and that it “Goes Without Saying”. Still, all she wanted to know was if I would spoil her. Another woman I met wanted a man with good Physical attributes. She actually could care less about money. Another woman wanted a sex machine. So where is this woman that is the traditional family woman that we all hear about in the FSU, and that is not impressed by money or material things?
She does exist in the FSU, problem is, it takes time and money to find her. And while some men on this RWD forum have ample time and money, the average JOE traveling to FSU countries, though he likely has a good job and a few weeks of vacation time, but with these limitations, one must wisely use his time when traveling to meet his possible future wife.
Here is where the agencies come in to the picture.
My comments center on Confidential Connections and Wife Connections, both agencies of which I have used and experienced first hand. Myself, like others have been disappointed with these agencies, but now I want to give a broader picture regarding the deficiencies I feel are present at these agencies and others.

First, what do we as men really expect from these agencies?
Do we want an agency that does background and credit checks on our women?
Do we want an agency that actually helps in the matchmaking process by assisting to bring people with similar interests and compatibility together, and perhaps doing this using proven, scientific methods, like perhaps AOL or LOVE MATCH.com uses (though I must add these sites present many potential problems because they are a web site and not an actual in-person agency)? I certainly would like to see more matchmaking services, not just a middle-man, making money on hotel booking markups.
Or, do we simply want an agency that provides translation services?
We all know going at it alone presents more opportunities for scammers to bring us problems if we are not cautious.
Or should we have to pay and agency such as AmzingLoves.com $1500 for a membership to get good service?
So what do all the guys on here that have traveled extensively to FSU countries think?

Lets be honest, regardless of what we may think, feel or experience with any agency’s services, what agencies really offer true matchmaking services? I mean, this is our possible future wife, and we seem to use these agencies just as a means of meeting a woman, who we really know very little about, except what is posted in her profile.
And to repeat a common fact, we all know that good woman exist at bad agencies (I learned this first hand) and that bad women exist at good agencies. And, just as a person can lie about themselves in a profile, they can also lie in person. Sure, you can prove things such as house, car and job in person, but you can not prove other things such as her personality and true feelings and motivations as easily.

Lets look closer at CC and WC. I used these guys, and I DID meet some awesome women at these agencies. And as far as I can see, the women there are real. The bad thing is when you learn of everything else that is going on there that is questionable. We all can read about that on numerous posts here and on the web.
My gripe is the lack of professionalism amongst SOME of their translators and mangers. I continue on here by reiterating that this is my opinion, of which I am entitled, based on my own personal experiences.
I mean, when a translator tells you that after a first date, that a girl no longer is interested in seeing you, you want to trust her and want to believe she is acting in a professional manner. Then when I found out from the girl I met, that she actually wanted the male translator that we used, I realized 1 day before the end of my trip, that I almost lost out on the opportunity of meeting and possibly having a great future with a woman I really liked, because a translator was mad at my girl for asking that we use the male translator and not her. The female translator wanted to set me up with a friend of hers. This is very childish, and could have had a significant effect on my future! This lack of professionalism is my main gripe. I am sure that their business model does not help matters either.

As for the stories of profiles stating “little fat bald ugly guy” that get replies, some of this is attributed to the fact that many women have the agency send out bulk mailings, hoping for many responses. I get these letters often, but not as frequently as others have stated. Letters to “little fat bald ugly guys” happen because many women never read the men’s profiles. Lets be honest guys, how many of us have been guilty of just looking at the pictures and initiating contact from there, and also sending out a form letter to several women? I must say though, I DO read profiles now, as I realize that my future wife should be more than a pretty face. A long-lasting marriage will be largely based on what’s on the inside. Also, I agree, that when someone sends an email and says he is a little fat bald ugly guy and a scammer, and he still gets a reply, we all know that something else is going on here.
Lets also be honest, part of the attraction of CC and WC is the “eye-candy” effect of it’s web site, and the fact that it offers more “young model-types” than other agencies. I think this is why they continue to grow, despite many complaints. As guys, we want to believe that we can have that young beauty that perhaps we can not obtain here in the USA.

Now, back to a main point; How many agencies out there really provide true matchmaking services? I am willing to pay an agency that actually offers some research-based matchmaking. The majority of agencies out there, good or bad, simply seem to be middle men. I call to the good agency owners out there, please answer this. Perhaps this agency with such services already exists.

Anyway, enough for now. There is more to say, especially regarding understanding FSU women and what drives them, and this will be a good subject for a different posting, as it has been already on these forums. I hope my comments will be thought-provoking and spur some good discussion, and hopefully some FULL-SERVICE agencies that do not cost $2000 to use. Sorry for anything I have repeated. I thank everyone in advance for their input, comments and suggestions.

[KenC]

Rookie,
Welcome to our humble forum. My quick answer to you is that if you rely on anyone but yourself to select your wife, you gotta be nuts! Seriously, I only wanted the agency to help coordinate some of my trip, facilitate a translator and introduce me to some ladies. After that, it was on me to do whatever I wanted. There are no shortcuts to this process as I see it. The guys that do take the shortcuts, come up, well, short. You are way ahead of the game by having already taken some trips and getting your feet wet. Take your time, and search for the woman that meets your criteria. Some luck wouldn't hurt either. Best of luck to you.
KenC

[Muj]

Welcome Rookie,

On my first trip AFA proved a helpful organization.  Hotel, ground transpo, interpretors, generally learning travel abilities in the CIS.  The social allows a guy to meet and talk to many types of women and understand a little more of the culture.  I met women to eventually have some luck and find my fiancee, not at the social .  I never spent too much money on the initial meetings.  I always asked the girls of their intentions, most provided an honest answer.  Some said marriage, some said a fun date.  You need to decide which you want and not deter if you seek marriage.  Subsequent trips to see my fiancee were planned by her and I.  Planning all of the CIS trip after the first visit not too difficult on the internet.  Buying a cell phone that allows SIM chip exchange so you may call in Russia or Ukraine helps. 
The effectiveness of the agency depends on you, as it is a service up to you to apply.  As on any dating website anywhere in the world there are dishonest people so meeting in a public reasonably priced place advisable.  Valid point by KenC.  I'll advise anyone to stay home if you cant decide on your own destiny.

[Rvrwind]

Welcome to the forum Rookie.
As an agency owner & having been in the business for some time in one capacity or another I would like to address some of your question/statements.
1/First let me say that there are agencies that provide matchmaking service. They are very exclusive & are not very much discussed on this or other boards. I had one that wanted me to join as an affiliate & I declined for several reasons. The most obvious one, because the cost was outrageous, $10,000.00!!! How many clients do you think one can attract that have the money to pay that bill? Of course one wouldn't need too many.
2/Full service agencies charge what they charge for many reasons. The biggest I have noticed is those that offer a monthly membership for letter writing. Although many of the guys here are against paying by the letter, I am not, as I do. An agency that charges a minimal monthly or yearly membership for letter writing has two factors to consider, those that show up & those that don't. Out of every 100 guys writing 95-98 are 'Keyboard Romeo's'. They are using the services of the translators & the agency for a minimal cost. Therefore the agency charges big bucks for the guys who do show up to make up the loses the incur from the 'Keyboard Romeo's'. The way my system works, the 'Keyboard Romeo's' pay their own way & I can charge much less to the guys who do come, therefore saving them a lot of money.
3/An agency that offers 'Matchmaking' services is in MHO sticking their neck out in hopes it won't be chopped off. Anybody who can guarantee you happy results is definitely full of crap. Only the two people in the relationship can insure that & only after considerable time is spent together. If one cannot afford the 'face time', one should not leave home.
No agency & no individual can guarantee finding anyone else the perfect mate, it is impossible. Perhaps occasionally they get lucky, but overall I'm willing to bet they have more failures than successes. The only way you can insure your own success is to spend time together & get to know each other.
Meeting & marrying women here is no different than in your own back yard. Would you meet a woman in your hometown 2-3 weeks & not see her for 3-4-5 months & just communicate by phone & e-mail then date a few more times & marry her? Of course not!! Well dating women here is no different, if you want success you must spend time together. I assume you chose this route for your own reasons, you have been here, you are not a rookie as your handle suggests. Having chosen this route you must realize it is not cheap & therefore you must be committed to seeing it to its desired end or quit before your bank account is depleted. There are no shortcuts!
All that being said, any good honest agency is going to help you all they can. As I have said before, we are not a 'Marriage Agency', we are an 'Introduction Agency'. We introduce you, the rest is up to you & anybody who says different is plain & simply, a liar, because they cannot guarantee marriage, he!! they can't even guarantee she will date you!!
In matters of the heart it is best to leave it to the two people involved & as I stated nothing can ensure success more than 'face time'.
Good luck with whichever route you decide to take.

[Shadow]

Hello Rookie,

First of all it is clear that you were once caught by the agency hype. Lucky you were sensible enough to find out the truth. Women in the FSU are no different from women elsewhere and you need luck and wise choices to find your match.

As for agencies I agree with what others said. The only people who can make a relationship work are you and your future (ex)wife. The reason full matchmaking agencies are expensive is that in order to have a remote chance of delivering the promise they need staff on both ends. This limits the possible number of clients.
Most agencies will there for only take care of the FSU side, offering introduction to ladies that they have met and are convinced to be sincere, and additional services as translation, accomodation and gifts.
Depending on your own experience in (international) travel you decide how much service you need and based on that what kind of agency to use. Usually you see the best agencies offer the most freedom.

[Jumper]

there are a LOT of questionable practices and agencies !

the majority have many  *games* going on, not in your best interest, but in thiers.
it is the matrix.

I think you brought up a great point, in that the average joe will not have the time , all while trying to decide on a seriuos woman to pursue a relationship with, to sort out all the odities and shady gray areas and the funny dealings of the majority of agencies he could possibly visit.

its part of the difficulty of this process. and like you post title , the REALITY.
so the average joe needs to recognioze it for what it is.

With MOST agencies being that way (IMHO)
Ken is right on the money, you can only trust yourself
(any RW would feel the same)

EXPECT that there are ulterier motives to every situation.
face it, and go forward with that in mind..
it can be worked thru if your eyes are wide open.

It isnt american nature to distrust, nor is it comfortable to do so when as a person you dont generally operate that way.

and of COURSE you cant take it so far, as to undermine a budding relationship!!

as hard as it mat be, I think the:
 *assume innocent until proven guilty*
or * giving someone  the benefit of the doubt, until proven wrong*
mentality ,
should be left at home when you board the plane!!

few Russians think like this, thier society doesnt operate like this!
 you are going to THIER turf,
know their rules.



as far as CC. 
 perfect example.
 even with an American owner, the matrix goes far deeper there,
 than anything you are thinking or alluding to.IMHO.

[PeeWee]

AJ said, "as hard as it mat be, I think the:
 *assume innocent until proven guilty*
or * giving someone  the benefit of the doubt, until proven wrong*
mentality ,
should be left at home when you board the plane!!"

And I agree. Which means that as you ask your various questions over the coming weeks about how your current lady is responding remember that the advices that you will be given by forum members, be they negative or be they positive, you might just want to ingnore those which seems unreasonable to you because you really do want to give someone the benefit of the doubt, until proven wrong.

Had I listened to all of those forum members who advised  "It's a red flag." and "Run, Forest, run." and "She's a scammer. Move on." some 5 years ago then I would have missed the opportunity to know a wonderful RW and now a friend of 3 plus years. Sometimes you just have to go with what seems logical to you in the given situation because you never really do know what the agenda really is of the guy who is now giving you his advice. Be smart.

Peewee

[Jumper]

peewee-

No agendas here.
it seems you took my post out of context a bit..
 
the man was talking about agencies ,
and asking questions about agencies..
and was refering to one SPECIFIC agency i happen to know quite a bit about first hand., as well as many others.

In the quote you took out of context,  when I was stating " giving somone, the benefit of the doubt"
 it is a common enough phrase.
i think its understood, i meant agencies.
if not i'd like to clarify that now.

i stand by my words in the CONTEXT of agencies -
Considering the average man, going to a random agency.
odds are things are going on he has no idea about ,
and he shouldnt give them the benefit of the doubt,
they certainly dont operate that way.

at the VERY least understand there is a game being played, if your are
a piece in it?

  I never intended my words to include your relationship with your romantic interest, and specifically stated:

and of COURSE you cant take it so far, as to undermine a budding relationship!!

i've seen plenty of overly suspicious men ruin a budding relationship over silly worries and distrust, and I certainly wouldnt advise it as a way to win a RW's  heart.

Actually Peewee-
you dont read RWG much,
but over the years I've always been on completely the other end of the spectrum .
 giving red flags time to work out..time is always on your side,
no reason to speculate or be overly concerned about such things,
they will sort themselves out as either legit,  or not , soon enough?

i do absolutely agree anyone  should sort the advice they get on a BB,
to thier particular situation.
Afterall it can only be general advice..and they are living a specific experience.

 
The strange part odf the situation is , that men who have thier eyes wide open , seldom need or ask for advice..
and  the ones who need the advice the most , and ask the most often,
 are always convinced thier particular case is unique

and hey! it can be!!  but are they feeling lucky.. ??

[FSUrookie]

Thanks to everyone for your input thus far. As I indicated, My goal was to spur good discussion and bring more valuable information regarding RW, agencies and related subjects. Of course, though I still consider myself a rookie, compared to others that have been to FSU countries numerous times, I do try to research everything as extensively as possible. Of course, I do not reply on a message board to make any final judgments, but the comments posted on here have given me a more well-rounded view of what REALLY is going on in FSU countries, with related dating agencies, and as to what REALLY drives FSU women.
Also, I reiterate, there ARE exceptions to every rule. In fact, I believe now in my heart that I probably blew an opportunity with a great Russian woman by initially following the 10 rules and other advice on here TOO closely. She had a few red flags, and I pressed her on it, and she didn't pass my "so-called" tests. If I was wrong, and there is a chance I was, I owe this woman a BIG apology. I will find out though, as I am doing verification research on this lady, and If I was wrong about her, I will apologize. Anyway, it could have been my loss too. Live and learn. I must say one thing in my defense, because of obvious culture differences, it is really hard for anyone to just WING-IT. The more we let our American way of thinking creep into the decision process, the more things can seem to get clouded. All in all, some things are very obvious with these FSU women and agencies, if you keep your eyes open. Other things are not quite as easy to discern.
In the end we all have only one special someone. If we divorce, then that person was not it. Please continue the great discussion on this topic. Any wise man would surely use all available resources and then use his best judgment concerning any FSU women. We all know there are things that happen that none of us here can predict or prevent. Bottom line, I like the chase and the journey. My disappointment remains the fact that there truly seems to be a void regarding agency services too. I'm not asking for them to hold my hand, I just want a little service to help make the most efficient use of the time I have to pursue my dream of finding a great woman as my wife in the FSU. Or at the very least, don’t get in the way. The goal as said in these forums, is to get the typical middle-man agencies out of the way so that you can deal with the FSU women directly. Even with the language barrier, there are many awesome electronic and computer programs that do a decent job of translating from Russian to English and back. Of course, nothing replaces a good live human translator, or having the lady learn English. Thanks for all the great posts.

[Jumper]

Or at the very least, don’t get in the way

I feel the reality (regarding agencies)
is sadly this quote is all you can hope for,
and even that isnt easy to find.

The longer i have known people that run FSU agencies ,
and the background of how many of them operate ,
and the wild things that go on that many men never have a clue about ,
or how common it actually is,,
 (even those competely happy with thier trips and service)
the more negative i am about most agencies.

are there decent ones ?
yes.

but i  think men looking for a RW seldom find them , as
 thats just not the odds, or the way things generally play out.

[KenC]

Rookie,
I have to say that I like your attitude. There have been many a man with similar experiences as you that thought they knew it all. I would disagree a bit with you when you say:
"In the end we all have only one special someone. If we divorce, then that person was not it".

I think there are numerous women that any man could be happy sharing his life with. Of course the same goes for the women too. Divorce is not necessarily tied to choosing wrong either, because no one can predict how people will evolve through out their lives. She could have been the perfect choice at the time the choice was made, but 20 years later, things change.

Do not down play the importance of a common language. Do yourself a huge favor and look for women that have at least some English ability. The translators are a cute concept in the beginning, but not being able to porperly communicate with someone you're with 24/7 becomes frustrating in a hurry.

Tell us more about your previous trip when you have a chance.
KenC

[Jumper]

The translators are often cute.
heck date the translators!

( i know its not what you meant Ken,but it doesnt seem a bad idea, lol)

[PeeWee]

peewee-

No agendas here.
it seems you took my post out of context a bit..
 
the man was talking about agencies ,
and asking questions about agencies..
and was refering to one SPECIFIC agency i happen to know quite a bit about first hand., as well as many others.

In the quote you took out of context,  when I was stating " giving somone, the benefit of the doubt"
 it is a common enough phrase.
i think its understood, i meant agencies.
if not i'd like to clarify that now.

i stand by my words in the CONTEXT of agencies -
Considering the average man, going to a random agency.
odds are things are going on he has no idea about ,
and he shouldnt give them the benefit of the doubt,
they certainly dont operate that way.

at the VERY least understand there is a game being played, if your are
a piece in it?

  I never intended my words to include your relationship with your romantic interest, and specifically stated:
i've seen plenty of overly suspicious men ruin a budding relationship over silly worries and distrust, and I certainly wouldnt advise it as a way to win a RW's  heart.

Actually Peewee-
you dont read RWG much,
but over the years I've always been on completely the other end of the spectrum .
 giving red flags time to work out..time is always on your side,
no reason to speculate or be overly concerned about such things,
they will sort themselves out as either legit,  or not , soon enough?

i do absolutely agree anyone  should sort the advice they get on a BB,
to thier particular situation.
Afterall it can only be general advice..and they are living a specific experience.

 
The strange part odf the situation is , that men who have thier eyes wide open , seldom need or ask for advice..
and  the ones who need the advice the most , and ask the most often,
 are always convinced thier particular case is unique

and hey! it can be!!  but are they feeling lucky.. ??

This is true, AJ, "...the ones who need the advice the most, and ask the most often, are always convinced their particular case is unique." But, of course, how could it be? How many women each year living is a foreign country seek men who live in a country not their own? Like Shakespeare said, "There are only seven plots." How could there be too many unique situations. And that is where the value of the forum is realized. Guys who have been to the front, fought the war, and then came home to tell about it. What I was referring to was those who have hidden agendas, for whatever reason, with wrong advices that are hard for the new guy to spot. I ran into that and had I listened to those types I would have walked away from this idea a long time ago.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Rookie,
I have to say that I like your attitude. There have been many a man with similar experiences as you that thought they knew it all. I would disagree a bit with you when you say:
"In the end we all have only one special someone. If we divorce, then that person was not it".

I think there are numerous women that any man could be happy sharing his life with. Of course the same goes for the women too. Divorce is not necessarily tied to choosing wrong either, because no one can predict how people will evolve through out their lives. She could have been the perfect choice at the time the choice was made, but 20 years later, things change.

Do not down play the importance of a common language. Do yourself a huge favor and look for women that have at least some English ability. The translators are a cute concept in the beginning, but not being able to porperly communicate with someone you're with 24/7 becomes frustrating in a hurry.

Tell us more about your previous trip when you have a chance.
KenC

I tried the translator route once, Ken, and found it to be both stressful and expensive. Communication is so important in a relationship. Both verbal and none verbal. I have found that even with the ladies who speak good English that sometime mistakes and misinformation can cause trouble. Same words mean different things in uncommon languages.

Peewee

[Markus]

Rookie,

Now I know what other people have to go through reading my longs posts. But, in your favor, your posts are interesting and thought provoking and your topic is very interesting and informative to men just browsing or in the searching process. I'm not sure how you met the ladies you mentioned, unless I missed something in the reading, but you do know about what to expect in this process. I think you are more concerned with meeting the right lady but reflect that concern to agencies. Let me share with you my agency experience and the whole process. I'll be concise at times with sentences that aren't sentences.

Lady contacted me through free site. We wrote for 2 weeks then she advised her email was going away. I advised I could help and received a Western Union account. Stupid me was wise enough to know not to send money. But, that's what started my thought process in the FSUW direction.

Next, I contacted an FSUW thru a free site, wrote for several weeks, got suspicious and found all the letters from her/him plus the letters from the 1st lady on a scam web site. I quit for a while.

I began again but am suspicious this time. But, I didn't trust free sites so I joined a site for less than $200. This particular site, something I didn't know at the time, pooled the profiles from other agencies. After writing many ladies, I still didn't click with any ladies. I quit a while and began again with the same agency and finally found a lady I was willing to visit. I visited and she is now my wife. But, what I didn't know, is that the agency I was with was not doing the actual interpreting and physically handing the letters to my lady. I found out who was, went to the agency and stated I want to send my letters directly to that agency. The price on the letter interpretation was much cheaper. Jumping ahead, the agency owner was at my wedding. He's a good guy and I have met him several times.

I know that I didn't answer your question and I think that a man should post an agency on this board to see if there has been any experience with that agency. There is a section on this board that deals with suspective agencies. I've read some bad stories, but I know what I experienced with the agency who my wife visited to pick up her letters. I have physically been in that agency 4 times. I don't know the exact answer to your agency question.

From your post, you have met three different FSUW. I wrote several different women before I was willing to go visit. Perhaps I was lucky, blessed is a word that I like more, but, I don't blame the situations that didn't work out on the agency. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but, there needs to be some dependence on agencies to meet FSUW. I think the only thing you should expect from an agency is translation of letters. Anything beyond that, without your request, is more than an agency should be doing. Of course, if talking on the phone requires an interpretor, I would go through a separate individual. I can give you the contact of an individual in Moscow that can help. I, by chance, contacted him and he was my interpretor until my wife and I chose to speak without him. I have met him twice and he has provided transportation and a flat in Moscow 2 times. So, there is a bit of a chance a man must take, but, how will a man know unless he tries? I think it's wise to confirm on this board about any agencies. And, although there's a section for this, I don't see a problem asking the question in this section so everyone can learn.

I would recommend only paying for a service that translates letters and gives you access to the profiles. I haven't viewed the prices in a couple of years, but, there's no way I would pay $1500 to have access to a site. If you would like my advice, I can provide you with an agency through a PM.
 

Mark

[DKMM]

FSU rookie mentioned something called "verification research" was mentioned.  Could you expand on what you mean by this technique?

I had a friend suggest that if a girl says she is into you and you only, yet still has her profile up, have the friend write her posing as a suitor and see how she responds to him.

No I have not tried it.

[Jumper]

DKMM-
 seems a bit underhanded,,and to start a relationship off from daty one with mistrust seems not the best approach??

 it would certainly show that she might write someone else..
and shows that she would tell someone that she hasnt met, and doesnt know for sure she will ever meet, a white lie..
probably thinking thats what the man wants to hear, or has asked her about it?

 why would she have an exclusive relationship with a pen pal?
a huge percentage of keyboard romeos never travel

I certainly wouldnt blame her for keeping her options open??
there is no real relationship until you meet,and it can be over in 5 secionds even then..

most people in regular dating certainly arnt exclusive after the first date??
they woulsdnt even discuss it!
it would seem weird?
 why would anyone expect it before a few dates just because they have written or talked on the phone ?

thats just me..

the other side of this is:
if a RW emailing you, quickly broaches this subject on her own and says she loves you ,and writes only you, odds are very good it is a set up for a scam..
 play it out, but dont be shocked if a WU request is soon in a loving email..

[PeeWee]

DKMM-
 seems a bit underhanded,,and to start a relationship off from daty one with mistrust seems not the best approach??

 it would certainly show that she might write someone else..
and shows that she would tell someone that she hasnt met, and doesnt know for sure she will ever meet, a white lie..
probably thinking thats what the man wants to hear, or has asked her about it?

 why would she have an exclusive relationship with a pen pal?
a huge percentage of keyboard romeos never travel

I certainly wouldnt blame her for keeping her options open??
there is no real relationship until you meet,and it can be over in 5 secionds even then..

most people in regular dating certainly arnt exclusive after the first date??
they woulsdnt even discuss it!
it would seem weird?
 why would anyone expect it before a few dates just because they have written or talked on the phone ?

thats just me..

the other side of this is:
if a RW emailing you, quickly broaches this subject on her own and says she loves you ,and writes only you, odds are very good it is a set up for a scam..
 play it out, but dont be shocked if a WU request is soon in a loving email..

Although as they say, AJ, information is power. There was a discussion about this some years ago on another forum where some suggested the hiring of a private investigator to gather whatever information he could on your FSU woman. Some thought it a good idea while others did not. I don't know. It would seem to me the purdent man would try to gather some information about his intended bride.

Just last night my son was telling me that the Vietnamese lady that he visits for his Vietnamese language lessons told him about a RW that works her. She married an AM. She had told him that she was a doctor. She is not. After the marriage he discovered this, accepted it, but she filed for divorce and then married a Russian man. Had this AM thought to do some background check on her, rather than taking her at face value, he might have saved himself some expense and trouble.

My son relayed this story to me because the lady that I am currently communicating with claims to be a doctor. He urged me to confirm that. How can any of us simply take all of the information that a woman gives us as the gospel while at the sametime a new law asks us to divulge information about our past history and finances? How about an equal sharing of relevent information? You know that won't happen so why not hire a PI to find out what ever you can about her before you make a huge mistake, as did the fellow my son told me about.

Peewee

[Michelangelo]

FSU rookie mentioned something called "verification research" was mentioned.  Could you expand on what you mean by this technique?

I had a friend suggest that if a girl says she is into you and you only, yet still has her profile up, have the friend write her posing as a suitor and see how she responds to him.

No I have not tried it.

The sad fact is that most FSU girls have 3 serious options--you and 2 others in case you do not "pan out."  And that's after you are pretty serious with her!  I got that straight from the mouth of my ex-gf whom I am still friendly with.

If you committ to one another, ask her to remove her profile. If she doesn't, do the "friend" thing.

[PeeWee]

The sad fact is that most FSU girls have 3 serious options--you and 2 others in case you do not "pan out."  And that's after you are pretty serious with her!  I got that straight from the mouth of my ex-gf whom I am still friendly with.

If you committ to one another, ask her to remove her profile. If she doesn't, do the "friend" thing.

And this is no different than us who WMVM, as opposed to WOVO? This is why, Michael, I do not advocate sending any woman money. How do you know for sure that she is not collecting the same from the other two guys that she is engaged to? If she made it this far in life without your financial support then why does she need it now? (another topic)

So can you blame the write three RW have three visit for doing the same as some of us do? I had this experience. I was communicating with a lady in Moscow. She talked of marriage. Came to visit me a couple of times. But as it turned out there was another AM hiding in the wings. She married him, thank God. The point is that I did not know about him and he probably did not know about me. She was playing  us both to the end, or until first one proposed to her. Had I hired a PI to check her out I could have saved myself a lot of time. But I didn't do that.

Peewee

[BC]

PeeWee..

I was communicating with a lady in Moscow. She talked of marriage. Came to visit me a couple of times. But as it turned out there was another AM hiding in the wings. She married him, thank God.

Maybe the other guy asked first?

I dunno.. maybe using a PI to verify some of the basic facts discretely if I had any doubts prior to getting on the plane for the first meeting but that's probably as far as I would ever go. Certainly not at the early pen-pal stage. If I had any doubts whatsoever prior to asking her to marry I simply would wait until additional personal visits confirmed my feelings one way or another.

Until you're engaged you're simply dating imho. The concept of "Going steady" was a high school fantasy.

[Jumper]

peewee-

i'm again assuming by how the question was worded ,
the situation is simply at the writing stage,,

I had a friend suggest that if a girl says she is into you and you only, yet still has her profile up,

if you still are in the wrirting stage, IMHO you have no right whatsoever to ask her to pull her profile?
she has no idea wether you will ever travel or that you two will actually hit it off..
you dont either!
you can hope for the best, you can feel real good about her , you can think you are in love with her,, but untill meeting you know nothing and owe each other nothing as crazy as exclusivity?

IF you have met, and have agreed to be in an exclusive relationship,
then she should have pulled her profile ion ger own.. and sure you can have some worries if she refuses to.

but its like other red flags you brought up that are not always truly red?
truth is that many agencies wont pull the profiles (They are money makers)
 quickly and often profiles have been sold or stolen, and it's dang near impossible to get them all removed even if she is very diligent!!!!!!!!!
 My wife and i went thru this very thing.. but she asked me to call the places and try to get them down,,see how easy it is to know about someone?
by the way 5 years later-  my wifes was still in anastasia's catalog last time one came here..(she never signed up with them,nor did I !  lol)
but  you are welcome to purchase her *cough* contact info..from me instead!
and if you will send a nice WU..
i'll love you ,and only you, and write only you my sweetest weepee!  

Just last night my son was telling me that the Vietnamese lady that he visits for his Vietnamese language lessons told him about a RW that works her. She married an AM. She had told him that she was a doctor. She is not. After the marriage he discovered this, accepted it, but she filed for divorce and then married a Russian man. Had this AM thought to do some background check on her, rather than taking her at face value, he might have saved himself some expense and trouble.

again you are the correspondence stage? this man wasnt! he was married to her!
Peewee its my sincere hope that if you spend enough time with any lady to love her and ask her to marry you,
that during such time you would actually know her occupatuoin , by simple observation,, while you were visiting her, what she talked about routinely
you would be calling her at random regular and irregular times, ,this alone would tell you volumes..

if you need to hire a PI to find out some thing as simple as what she does for a living,, i propose that you dont know the lady nearly well enough to propose!

 hiring a PI to check such basic things is getting the cart way before the horse,,
aftereall it is someone you plan to marry?
if you are just corrersponding ,of course you cant know,,
but then again you arent proposing thru email ..
you arnt even dating yet!

There was a discussion about this some years ago on another forum where some suggested the hiring of a private investigator to gather whatever information he could on your FSU woman. Some thought it a good idea while others did not. I don't know. It would seem to me the purdent man would try to gather some information about his intended bride.

i agree, but should it not come from natural interaction during the courtship phase?
isnt it prudent to be around her,have decent enough communication levels,  and in contact with her often enough to have a good grasp of such daily parts of her life..???

if guys are proposing to complete strangers, or to someone they cannot speak to,  i can understand the need for a PI

but if youre at the point of engagement , and think you need a PI,
i think you need to not propose untill you have the time to know her better as a person..
I suppose a PI might quickly uncover something that would take you awhile,
and save you some time in actually getting to know your intended bride..lol
 
but lets get real here,
if you have some hunch , or feeling, at the point of proposing
to the love of your life..
that you need a PI, then you are:
 paranoid,
or not ready yet to propose (for many reasons)

if a PI can sort those feelings out for you.. my guess is your hunch to hire one came from somewhere.. something was already troubling you?

i'm not against it,to each his own..
 i just find it a very odd practice,
it never would have crossed my mind.

yes i knew exactly without any doubt,  what my wife did for a living,,where she lived,
 most of her friend and all of her family..
were they lived ,what they did for a living.
  how? i dated her!  
so you would generally find about  her, and also about the people in her life? not trying to be a detective, it would just happen naturally?
thru normal interaction with friends family, her co workers ,her boss, you tend to talk to people and come to understand what they do daily?thier hobbies and interests, thier employment?

maybe i'm making life ,romance , and dating too  simple?  

yes it can be difficult if you dont understand some russian..
but i'd rather learn enough Russian to get buy , than hire a PI.
because i'm really interested in these people,,
and not to prove if they are scamming or not,,just to know the people in my wives life?? 

[Jumper]

BC can post the same thoughts , much more concisely.

Gawd! i'm approaching TOWW's word count per post    
You know i still love you Mark, where's my WU?

[Michelangelo]

And this is no different than us who WMVM, as opposed to WOVO? This is why, Michael, I do not advocate sending any woman money. How do you know for sure that she is not collecting the same from the other two guys that she is engaged to? If she made it this far in life without your financial support then why does she need it now? (another topic)

So can you blame the write three RW have three visit for doing the same as some of us do? I had this experience. I was communicating with a lady in Moscow. She talked of marriage. Came to visit me a couple of times. But as it turned out there was another AM hiding in the wings. She married him, thank God. The point is that I did not know about him and he probably did not know about me. She was playing  us both to the end, or until first one proposed to her. Had I hired a PI to check her out I could have saved myself a lot of time. But I didn't do that.

Peewee

Been there, done that.  My advice is that if you are dating a girl, no money but small gifts.  If you are engaged, then of course you should help. I'm no Anno... :-)

[BC]

BC can post the same thoughts , much more concisely.

AJ,  I like your writing style.  Pictures of you riding your two-wheeled airplane without wings pop in my head when I read your posts.. sorta like  'da da daaaaaa ~boom!, da da daaaaaaaaaa ~boom!' LOL