It's me again folks, and I have yet another question!

[TheBullRDR]

Hello again friends.  I hope everyone is doing well.
   I have a question for anyone that has experience (good or bad) with the "Pro-Daters".  Can you give me any tips on their M.O.?  I know this obviously has to be something of a long con since they are trying to get you over there.  How long do they normally (if anyone knows) stick it out before giving up and moving to another mark?  What other signs has anyone seen with these people?  Any and all information is helpful.  Thanks in advance!

[Muzh]

Hey Bullrider.


A bit of advice. If you have doubts about this babe, it is better to sever relationship and move on. It is NOT worth the time and effort.

[TheBullRDR]

Knowledge is power. I'm trying to gather all information I can in order to be able to spot the scams more quickly.  Just looking for the "Red Flags" in case there is something I don't know or haven't thought of. 

[Muzh]

Tell you what.


I know of two good guys that will tell you it's a losing cause (trying to spot the scams.)


And I was on the outside looking in and can tell you their's was no scam. Just not meant to be.






Between you and me, if you want something iron-clad, buy GE stocks.

Hope it helps and good luck.

[SANDRO43]

Check out our Scammer Score Card (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=37) for some hints .

[TheBullRDR]

I've had a look at the score card thingy. I'm pretty good at spotting the normal scams but the pro daters are a new breed that I have no experience in dealing with.  That was the purpose of this post. 
   

[Larry1]

Hello again friends.  I hope everyone is doing well.
   I have a question for anyone that has experience (good or bad) with the "Pro-Daters".  Can you give me any tips on their M.O.?  I know this obviously has to be something of a long con since they are trying to get you over there.  How long do they normally (if anyone knows) stick it out before giving up and moving to another mark?  What other signs has anyone seen with these people?  Any and all information is helpful.  Thanks in advance!

If the girl is clever it will be difficult to tell she is a pro dater until you're actually visiting her and she asks you to take her shopping. It is much easier to spot a scammer who talks to you for a couple of weeks and then tells you that she lost her job and cannot afford to have her messages translated anymore but since you mean so much to her she wants to continue correspondence and knows a translator who can translate all our messages for only $400/month.

A girl who wants only to get you to buy her stuff, or a common scammer, won't wait around forever. Time is money and if it appears that you're not going to buy her stuff the girl will move on to find someone else who will do so.

I think Muzh is correct when he gave you this advice above, "If you have doubts about this babe, it is better to sever relationship and move on."

You could read this entertaining thread:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19291.0

[TheBullRDR]

That was a funny story.  Thanks for the amusement.

[TheBullRDR]

Thanks for the info everyone.  I don't think I'm dealing with a pro dater.  What I think I'm dealing with is an idiot.  I've been talking with her for months and have verified a great many things she has told me.  On the other hand, new information has come to light in the last couple of days, and in researching that I have found that there have been several lies as well.  What I'm taking away from this is she is just messing around and isn't serious about actually trying to form a relationship.  I will list some of the things I've found out.

1) She is a real person. 
2) Her profession is real.  (She is actually a veterinarian.)
3) Her phone number is real. (I have talked to her on it)
4) She does live in Belarus.
5) Her age is correct.

Things I've found are untrue
1) Her last name.  She gave me a false one
2) her phone number isn't a land line like she told me.  It is a mobile
3) the town in which she lives is about 70 miles down the road from where she told me she lives. 

The suspicious activity that lead me to start snooping with earnest.
   We would arrange a time to speak on the phone, but I could never get anyone to answer it.  After about 50 phone calls, I have talked to her exactly once.  I couldn't figure out why, since she lives with her parents and it was a home phone (the lie) why wouldn't they answer the phone if she was out?  It got me to thinking. 

Another thing is she asked me in an email how we might make our relationship grow.  What could we do other than email.  Since she uses an internet cafe for the internet, Skype was out.  I suggested getting a facebook account.  At least that would be a real time conversation.  She said that she didn't have a Facebook account.  When I said get one, it was ignored.  Got me thinking some more. 

So I started digging.  I managed to find her on VK.  Different last name, but it's her.  This is how I found out that she has a mobile phone, because she checks her VK with it.  Not to mention the 900 selfies with the phone.  I checked Belarus phone directories and found out the prefixes for mobile and land lines.  The number she gave me is her mobile.  That explains why the parents didn't answer, but not why she never answers it.  And, if she can check VK with her phone, why not send an email? 

All in all, she seems like she just wants to play around, but isn't serious.  She says she is, but the lies tell a different story.  I'm going to cut ties with this one, but I think I'll ask her about all those fine points first. 

[Boethius]

Why would you waste time asking her about all this stuff? 

[Bee Farmer]

I've been talking with her for months

Another thing is she asked me in an email how we might make our relationship grow.  What could we do other than email.

TheBullRDR
Member
Status: Looking > 5 years
Trips: None (yet)

The girl's problem is that she recognizes that you are a Keyboard Romeo. 

You email her for months.  She politely asked you to come visit her, to make the relationship real.  She asked you to show her that you were serious.

You've been looking for more than 5 years, but never grew a pair and actually went over there.  What are you waiting on, your mommy to hold your hand and take you there?

The girl is looking for a real man, not a Mommy's boy.

We can't know if the girl is sincere, but we do know that you are not sincere.

[Boethius]

You can't know that.  His first post -

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18329.msg380832#msg380832
 
It appears he has not been looking for over 5 years.

[Bee Farmer]

He put on his profile that he has been looking for more than 5 years.

I guess that means we just caught him in a lie.

That only reinforces my position.

[Boethius]

Or his finger slipped when he was filling out his profile.

[alex330]

Doubt she is an idiot. Sounds like she is just not into you for x,y,z reason. She can install Skype, Viber, or Whatsapp on her cell phone and you could speak/chat with each other if she really wanted.

[jone]

Thanks for the info everyone.  I don't think I'm dealing with a pro dater.  What I think I'm dealing with is an idiot.  I've been talking with her for months and have verified a great many things she has told me. On the other hand, new information has come to light in the last couple of days, and in researching that I have found that there have been several lies as well.  What I'm taking away from this is she is just messing around and isn't serious about actually trying to form a relationship.  I will list some of the things I've found out.

1) She is a real person. 
2) Her profession is real.  (She is actually a veterinarian.)
3) Her phone number is real. (I have talked to her on it)
4) She does live in Belarus.
5) Her age is correct.

Things I've found are untrue
1) Her last name.  She gave me a false one
2) her phone number isn't a land line like she told me.  It is a mobile
3) the town in which she lives is about 70 miles down the road from where she told me she lives. 

The suspicious activity that lead me to start snooping with earnest.
   We would arrange a time to speak on the phone, but I could never get anyone to answer it.  After about 50 phone calls, I have talked to her exactly once.  I couldn't figure out why, since she lives with her parents and it was a home phone (the lie) why wouldn't they answer the phone if she was out?  It got me to thinking. 

Another thing is she asked me in an email how we might make our relationship grow.  What could we do other than email.  Since she uses an internet cafe for the internet, Skype was out.  I suggested getting a facebook account.  At least that would be a real time conversation.  She said that she didn't have a Facebook account.  When I said get one, it was ignored.  Got me thinking some more. 

So I started digging.  I managed to find her on VK.  Different last name, but it's her.  This is how I found out that she has a mobile phone, because she checks her VK with it.  Not to mention the 900 selfies with the phone.  I checked Belarus phone directories and found out the prefixes for mobile and land lines.  The number she gave me is her mobile.  That explains why the parents didn't answer, but not why she never answers it.  And, if she can check VK with her phone, why not send an email? 

All in all, she seems like she just wants to play around, but isn't serious.  She says she is, but the lies tell a different story.  I'm going to cut ties with this one, but I think I'll ask her about all those fine points first.

Unless you've seen her on a video exchange, it could be that you're the idiot.  She has all the markings of an agency employee.  Not the actual person on the profile.

You will hear this many times.  If a relationship is right, and the woman is into you, you will have absolutely no doubt.

[Faux Pas]

Doubt she is an idiot. Sounds like she is just not into you for x,y,z reason. She can install Skype, Viber, or Whatsapp on her cell phone and you could speak/chat with each other if she really wanted.

All true....IMO

[BillyB]

We would arrange a time to speak on the phone, but I could never get anyone to answer it.  After about 50 phone calls, I have talked to her exactly once.

If she's not serious about looking for love, you are being played. If she is serious about looking for love, you have a problem taking a "hint". You are not that special to her so quit wasting her and your time and move on. Why work hard for someone that is not working hard for you?

[TheBullRDR]

All good points folks, except for the fact that every email she sends me talks about how her feelings for me keep growing and she sees us together etc etc...  As far as catching me in a lie, nope.  I've been looking for a wife for more than 5 years, not necessarily overseas.  And as far as why I haven't gone yet?  Well, until I'm sure I'm stepping off of a plane to a real person that is very interested, I'm not wasting my time.  I'm not getting on a plane to go have coffee with someone then get back on it and come home.  That is idiotic and a waste of time and money. 
   She is obviously being sneaky about something, I just don't know what.  It doesn't really matter, anyway.  Like I said, after the things I've dug up, I'm cutting ties anyway. 
   As far as installing all that stuff on her cell, She still hasn't admitted to owning one.  I don't know why she lied about that, but again, it doesn't matter.  Lies are lies. 

Wasting my time is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.  Asking all the questions I have was trying to ascertain the problem in communication.  I get all these emails about our future together (not cut and paste ones) but then I find out about all of the other crap.  It doesn't add up. 

Bottom line is, while I would like to know exactly what was going on in her brain, it doesn't really matter.  I'm done with it. 

[Bee Farmer]

And as far as why I haven't gone yet?  Well, until I'm sure I'm stepping off of a plane to a real person that is very interested, I'm not wasting my time.

What exactly are you expecting from a girl?  How do you think a girl will act who is "very interested" in you?  Are you expecting her to fall in love with your picture, or perhaps to fall in love with her fantasy of you?

These girls have tons of men who write to them and want their attention.  You are not their first rodeo.  What do you think the girls number one complaint is?  That guys write but then never come.  It is foolish to think that a girl is going to get very emotionally invested in you before she ever meets you.  She's been disappointed by guys who write but never visit so many times that she's not going to put much hope into a guy who writes for several months, promising to visit someday.

These girls expect a real man who pursues a girl.  If a man likes a girl, he will come to her.  The girls expect a man to act this way.  This is how they have been raised.  If a man really likes a girl, he will come...regardless if she likes him or not.

The girls will also tell you, it isn't real until you meet face to face.  So if you want a real relationship with a pretty FSU girl, you need to grow a pair and go over there before there is any real chance.

If you are expecting a girl to fall in love with you before you are willing to go visit her, then you are wasting your time.

I visited Ukraine in 2013 for 2.5 weeks.  Aside from a weekend trip into Canada as a teenager, I'd never been out of the US before.  Two days before I was scheduled to fly out, I broke 3 bones in my foot.  So I went on crutches. 
I spent a week in Kiev, and a week and a half in Odessa.  I attended a beekeeping conference in Kiev, and met a girl in Odessa I had been emailing.  I met her one time, and she decided we were not right for each other.  (She was only 25, and I suspect a chat girl from AnastasiaDate who was not serious about finding a husband.)
But I got to do a bunch of sightseeing.  I went to Chernobyl, and met former president Yushchenko and got my pic taken with him.  I did a tour of the catacombs in Odessa.  I did a couple day bus tour of different beekeeping operations from Kiev down to the Vinnytsa area.

It was the first vacation I'd taken in 10 years.  I spent roughly $5,000 on the trip.

If you are really serious about finding a FSU wife, expect it to cost $20K.  By the time you visit her a few times, and then the process of getting her here and marrying her, you will probably have $20K out-of-pocket expenses.  Are you prepared to spend $20K on a hope and a dream?

If you really want to find a reason to go, you will find a reason to go there.  If you want to find an excuse not to go, you will find an excuse.

[alex330]

except for the fact that every email she sends me talks about how her feelings for me keep growing and she sees us together etc etc.

Maybe an agency girl like Jone says then. Why would a woman who is into you not want to hear your voice or see you? My wife would stay awake till 5am to talk to me. She signed up on Facebook to connect. Just food for thought.

 
 As far as installing all that stuff on her cell, She still hasn't admitted to owning one. 

Almost all FSUW own a cell phone. Not sure about Belarus but in Ukraine most will own two cells or at least two SIM cards for the different networks.

It doesn't add up.  I'm done with it.

It doesn't and probably for the best.

[TheBullRDR]

What am I expecting?  Well, I guess I'm expecting some sort of connection with someone that ISN'T LYING TO ME.  That would make some sort of sense.  As far as not going, I had the travel agent book the tickets 2 weeks ago.  But since I've found this shit, I canceled all of it. 

Personally, I find it amazing that no matter what I write on here, there is always someone that says I "just need to go"  no matter what.  Well, Like I said in an earlier post, that is idiotic, and a waste of time and money. 

I'll fashion a medal out of tin foil for you for taking a tour of Ukraine on crutches.  I don't care and it has nothing to do with this post. 

As far as the money, I don't really care about it.  I'll spend whatever it takes.  But whatever I do spend will be to some purpose, not throwing it away on some scammer or wasting it on a trip to Belarus for no apparent reason.  I have one goal, anything outside of that goal has no meaning and is therefore a waste.   I know you don't know me, but I am very analytical, logical, and proceed based on the information on hand.  When things such as lies pop their head up, that is a big no no.  Yet you think I should be on a plane.  If you want to waste your time on that sort of thing, go ahead.  I can find women to lie to me here for nothing.  Been doing that for years.

[TheBullRDR]

Alex 330.
  I suggested Facebook just to connect.  It got ignored.  You're right that it's for the best.  Something is amiss which is why I'm walking away

[PBRstreetg]

Privet.
What you're dealing with is eerily similar to a situation that occurred to me in the beginning.
I understand you want some 'resolution' to your time investment. The problem is I doubt you'll get it.
Small town Belarus is not the third world. It makes no sense to me that the girl doesn't have internet. Also I have a little experience in the so called slow scam (something amateur pro-daters will try). I think if you were to get a visa and buy plane tickets only afterward this 'girl' would come up with a taxi and apartment for you that would be way overinflated.
It's not likely dangerous but possible. More likely you would pay for transportation and hotel and she'd be a no show.

The phone thing is a big red flag imho. You shouldn't have to make an appointment to call. That makes me think that it's a setup, the girl isn't available unless she knows when you'll call. If she liked you and was for real you guys would be texting and she'd want you on What'sAPP or one of the other IM apps.
I'm not a big Skype fan, but I reluctantly agree with the guys who say they'd never take a chance on a woman without using it at least once.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And it's true if an fsuw likes you, you'll know it.

[TheBullRDR]

PBR Streetg
   I was thinking the same thing with the phone.  Like I said before, something is off.  I just can't put my finger on what it is.  She could be an amateur pro dater, who knows.  What I do know is I'm cutting my losses. 

She lives (supposedly) 4 hours from Minsk and said she would arrange the taxi down there for me.  This threw up a tiny flag but taken in conjuncture with all of the rest of the things I've discovered, it does seem plausible she's trying to scam me.  She also said she would set up an apartment.  No mention of cost on the apartment but she did say the taxi would cost me 1$ per km.  I looked up the average rate of taxis there online and they were 55 cents.  More and more things keep piling up. 

Thanks for the advice.  I appreciate it.