The Russian/Syrian connection thread

[Gator]

250,000 dead prior to Russian involvement...boy we sure are doing a heck of a job (Brownie) with keeping those casualties down!   

So you believe the US bombing is responsible for the 250,000 dead and not the barrel bombing, starvation, etc. tactics of Assad. 

IDIOT             1
INFORMED   0

  Western backed groups= ISIS.   

IDIOT             2
INFORMED   0

At this point, there is no need for Russia to make a distinction.  Russia backs Assad, who has been leading the country for the past 15 years. 

You made a factual statement.  I am stunned. 

We *The US* are arming 'rebels' and fomenting agony, for our own ends.   Keeping the region in chaos is apparently better than the alternative, from our viewpoint....WE certainly aren't the good guys. 

Who else provides arms to the rebels?  What percentage comes from the US?  What nations consider Assad a pariah?

IDIOT             3
INFORMED   0

I reject this statement, the world has NOT always needed A policeman. 

What happens if there is no one prepared to stand up to an aggressor?   Policemen spend very little of their time confronting criminals directly.  Their vigilance is just as important as their ability to take a criminal down.  And  the policemen must be armed and ever ready  to arrest a hardened criminal.   

BTW, the US "policeman" actions are done for the most part as a coalition.

IDIOT             4
INFORMED   0

  Yup, you have really 'profoundly changed'.  hahaha  I think it is your brain that isn't functioning on all cylinders, and has become immalleable, which I'm sure you mistakenly think is a good thing. 

Why do I treat you this way?  It is because you do not analyze facts before making statements.  I am amused at others trying to REASON with you.  They miss the point - you can not be reasoned OUT of an opinion if you were never reasoned INTO the opinion. 

Yesterday I asked you to give the sources of the crazed statements you made.  You ignored me because your opinions are not based on credible sources.   

[fathertime]

So you believe the US bombing is responsible for the 250,000 dead and not the barrel bombing, starvation, etc. tactics of Assad. 

IDIOT             1
INFORMED   0


IDIOT             2
INFORMED   0



You made a factual statement.  I am stunned. 


Who else provides arms to the rebels?  What percentage comes from the US?  What nations consider Assad a pariah?

IDIOT             3
INFORMED   0


What happens if there is no one prepared to stand up to an aggressor?   Policemen spend very little of their time confronting criminals directly.  Their vigilance is just as important as their ability to take a criminal down.  And  the policemen must be armed and ever ready  to arrest a hardened criminal.   

BTW, the US "policeman" actions are done for the most part as a coalition.

IDIOT             4
INFORMED   0


Why do I treat you this way?  It is because you do not analyze facts before making statements.  I am amused at others trying to REASON with you.  They miss the point - you can not be reasoned OUT of an opinion if you were never reasoned INTO the opinion. 

Yesterday I asked you to give the sources of the crazed statements you made.  You ignored me because your opinions are not based on credible sources.

Bottom line is the US is trying to arm and sponsor yet another coup, where there is a legitimate secular government in place. What has ensued is obvious.   Silly fools like yourself refuse to see our guilt, and live in a world where we are the cops riding in on a white horse, and everybody that disagrees is the bad guy on a black horse. 


When ISIS was doing the work we wanted them to do, we laid off them on one hand, while demonizing them on the other....having our cake and eating it too.  I'm convinced we let all those arms fall into their hands, we didn't spend 500 million on 54 trainees.  You can believe that if you want, but I think it was intentional.


The REAL curiosity is why exactly are we involving ourselves in Syria, for real? Only fools will believe it is for altruistic reasons.


Fathertime! 

[Gator]

The REAL curiosity is why exactly are we involving ourselves in Syria, for real? Only fools will believe it is for altruistic reasons.

You know everything, so please tell us "why exactly" we and many other nations are involved.

[fathertime]

You know everything, so please tell us "why exactly" we and many other nations are involved.

What I do know for sure is that YOU know VERY little.


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Whatever happened to that Russia was going to wither up and die on the vine in 2015?


Russia shows military might in Syria, also pushes diplomacy

HEMEIMEEM AIR BASE, Syria (AP) — As Russia unleashed waves of warplanes Thursday from this air base in western Syria to pound militant targets, President Vladimir Putin pushed diplomatic efforts with the West, stressing the need "to consider each other as allies in a common fight."

Russia put its military muscle on display, bringing Moscow-based reporters to view a day's worth of fighter jets roaring.....

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-planes-fly-western-syria-053421955.html;_ylt=A0LEVxJteilWjvIADoFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyYnEyMzRtBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjA4MTNfMQRzZWMDc2M-




Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

  Eradication can only be done with ground forces, and we will not and should not send American troops to engage ISIS on the ground.  Such is the job for the Iraqi, who so far have shown no willingness to confront ISIS.  Who will step in if not the Iraqi? 

Kurdish Iraqis have been fighting ISIS regularly and the Iraqi government has held talks with Russia about needing help against ISIS. Iraqis alone can't beat ISIS but how many nations should be turned over to fanatical groups before we step in? Many people in this world doesn't want a world policeman including Obama yet we need a world policeman.


American soldier killed in story below. American advisors were advising Kurdish soldiers in a raid of an ISIS prison located in Iraq to free 70 Arab hostages. They were there to strictly advise the Kurdish soldiers but somehow got caught in the firefight and engaged ISIS. I don't know why Obama refuses to acknowledge that he sent a "few" ground troops in to fight ISIS. Maybe that won't sit well with his voter base?


http://gma.yahoo.com/us-military-adviser-dies-iraqi-rescue-mission-141440977--abc-news-topstories.html

[2tallbill]

Putin accuses West of playing 'double game' in Syria

Moscow (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin accused the West of playing a "double game"
with "terrorist" groups in Syria, where Moscow and a US-led coalition are conducting separate
bombing campaigns.

"It's always difficult to play a double game: declaring a fight against terrorists while simultaneously
trying to use some of them to arrange the pieces on the Middle East chess board in one's own
interests," Putin said at a meeting of political scientists in Sochi known as the Valdai Club.

"It is impossible to prevail over terrorism if some of the terrorists are being used as a battering ram
to overthrow undesirable regimes," Putin said.

There is more read all about it here
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-accuses-west-double-game-syria-terrorist-groups-155553638.html;_ylt=AwrXgCMsKSpW7Q0AwyvQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByN3UwbTk1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM5BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

[mendeleyev]

Whatever happened to that Russia was going to wither up and die on the vine in 2015?

You mean the one that desperately needs Western sanctions to end. This year the Russian economy has dropped 9 percent of GDP, the ruble has lost over half its value, and the economy has slipped from 9th to 13th in the world.

Or, perhaps the one that is desperate to get out of a failed Ukrainian mess, and is starting to "explain" on Russian TV that the Russian brothers in the Ukrainian East "haven't done enough" for Moscow to continue supporting the rebels at current levels.

Or, perhaps you refer to the Russia that is sensing a growing distance from China, the once thought of saviour of the Russian economy. You know, the same China that not only refuses to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but the China that last Thursday voted to give Ukraine a seat on the UN Security Council. The very same China has become in 2015 the single largest buyer of Ukrainian corn crops, and the same China that refused to side with Russia on the Security Council vote to investigate the shooting down of MH 17 over Eastern Ukraine.

There are three reasons why the Russians now speak of diplomacy:
1- The bombing and bases in Syria have already eaten up half of the military slush fund for such "emergencies."
2- Moscow hopes that Washington can be convinced to drop sanctions if Moscow becomes a diplomacy partner.
3- Beijing has told Moscow that it needs to do more talking, and less shooting.

As to the economy, perhaps in all your wide experience here in Russia you've found a source of cheese, or milk, or apples that I have somehow missed. Maybe those currency exchange signs look different to you than the ones I see every day.

Enlighten me, please.

[Gator]

Enlighten me, please.

Superbly written Mendy. 

I read this week's trip to Moscow was Assad's first time outside Syria since 2011.  That speaks volumes about his place in the world.    Pariahs must stick together. 

[fathertime]

You mean the one that desperately needs Western sanctions to end. This year the Russian economy has dropped 9 percent of GDP, the ruble has lost over half its value, and the economy has slipped from 9th to 13th in the world.

Or, perhaps the one that is desperate to get out of a failed Ukrainian mess, and is starting to "explain" on Russian TV that the Russian brothers in the Ukrainian East "haven't done enough" for Moscow to continue supporting the rebels at current levels.

Or, perhaps you refer to the Russia that is sensing a growing distance from China, the once thought of saviour of the Russian economy. You know, the same China that not only refuses to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but the China that last Thursday voted to give Ukraine a seat on the UN Security Council. The very same China has become in 2015 the single largest buyer of Ukrainian corn crops, and the same China that refused to side with Russia on the Security Council vote to investigate the shooting down of MH 17 over Eastern Ukraine.

There are three reasons why the Russians now speak of diplomacy:
1- The bombing and bases in Syria have already eaten up half of the military slush fund for such "emergencies."
2- Moscow hopes that Washington can be convinced to drop sanctions if Moscow becomes a diplomacy partner.
3- Beijing has told Moscow that it needs to do more talking, and less shooting.

As to the economy, perhaps in all your wide experience here in Russia you've found a source of cheese, or milk, or apples that I have somehow missed. Maybe those currency exchange signs look different to you than the ones I see every day.

Enlighten me, please.

None of this seems to have phased the Russians as it pertains to their willingness to not yield to Western intervention in Syria.


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Putin accuses West of playing 'double game' in Syria

 

Good article, thanks for posting it.  I agree with Putin on that one...we are trying to have our cake and eat it too.


Fathertime!   

[mendeleyev]

None of this seems to have phased the Russians as it pertains to their willingness to not yield to Western intervention in Syria.


Fathertime!   

Are you brain dead?

I give you a list of things, including the FACT that the Russians have already spent HALF of their budget on this project, and you say it has not phased them?!

Wow.

BTW, you and I are not that far off on the Syrian situation, but neither am I ignorant to the on-the-ground financial complications. When you have a president and prime minister who are preparing the general population for further cuts in pension and health care benefits, I'd be inclined to pay some attention to those realities.

[mendeleyev]

As usual, you like to speak nonsense, but fail to answer questions.

Again, please enlighten me.

[fathertime]

Are you brain dead?

I give you a list of things, including the FACT that the Russians have already spent HALF of their budget on this project, and you say it has not phased them?!

Wow.

I don't know what has you all riled up.   I read your list.  Despite your list, Russia is taking actions, and making sacrifices to do so.  Yes, it seems the sacrifices aren't 'phasing' them enough to make them do what 'we' (the Western nations)wants.  I don't know what more response you would need to feel enlightened, but my intent wasn't really to enlighten you to begin with. 

BTW, you and I are not that far off on the Syrian situation, but neither am I ignorant to the on-the-ground financial complications. When you have a president and prime minister who are preparing the general population for further cuts in pension and health care benefits, I'd be inclined to pay some attention to those realities.

Well  they might think the sacrifices are going to be worth it in the longer run. 


Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

Or, perhaps you refer to the Russia that is sensing a growing distance from China, the once thought of saviour of the Russian economy. You know, the same China that not only refuses to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but the China that last Thursday voted to give Ukraine a seat on the UN Security Council. The very same China has become in 2015 the single largest buyer of Ukrainian corn crops, and the same China that refused to side with Russia on the Security Council vote to investigate the shooting down of MH 17 over Eastern Ukraine.

Actually I see Russia and China growing closer than ever as they both have interests in being top dog in this world to overtake America. The UN security council to enforce international law and promote peace is a joke. Russia and China are permanent members and they are both seeking more real estate through hostile means. Sure China didn't side with Russia on a number of issues and voted to give Ukraine a seat on the security council. Not a big deal. China is looking out for themselves and pissing off Western customers is bad for business. Voting Ukraine to the security council isn't going to hurt Russia since some people will believe the security council has become more biased against whatever Russia does and later may even help Russia if Putin gets another puppet elected in Ukraine.


Sure China is buying Ukrainian corn but China signed a $400 billion deal with Russia to buy Russian gas. Sure China doesn't recognize Crimea belonging to Russia but they are going to help build a multi billion dollar bridge for Russia to access Crimea better. Unlike the West, China didn't place sanctions on Russia. They are a lot closer to Russia with similar global interests than we think.


It's understandable that many people here dislike Russia and easy to criticize what's wrong. Russia's economy is hurting as a result of Putin's policies but it's clear he's willing to sacrifice his economy to achieve military objectives. Putin is expecting a return on his investing in the military. Getting his name etched in history books could be one of the returns. Some here have ridiculed Russia's military but it's still #2 in this world without the nukes factored in and they can beat anybody except America one on one in a conventional war. Putin is increasing military spending by 30% this year and they have new technology coming out which will further modernize their military.

[fathertime]

 China is looking out for themselves and pissing off Western customers is bad for business.

I believe your post to be correct.  Today word is that China will be included in the IMF reserve currency basket.  China does have to play the game some, but ultimately they appear to be siding with Russia, more so than western nations.  We (The US) tried to oppose the Chinese on this, but have been forced to cave. 





IMF Said to Give China Strong Signs of Reserve-Currency Nod



International Monetary Fund representatives have told China that the yuan is likely to join the fund’s basket of reserve currencies soon, according to Chinese officials with knowledge of the matter, a move that may make more countries comfortable using the unit or including it in their foreign-exchange holdings.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-23/imf-said-to-give-china-strong-signs-of-reserve-currency-blessing
The IMF has given Chinese officials strong signals in meetings that the yuan is likely to win inclusion in the current

[Brasscasing]

Sure China is buying Ukrainian corn but China signed a $400 billion deal with Russia to buy Russian gas. Sure China doesn't recognize Crimea belonging to Russia but they are going to help build a multi billion dollar bridge for Russia to access Crimea better. Unlike the West, China didn't place sanctions on Russia. They are a lot closer to Russia with similar global interests than we think.

You might want to take a look at these figures, Billy...

Is Russia shifting focus from China to India for its oil barrels?

..."The report states that Russia's exports to China were down 20% compared to last year, while China only invested under $1.6 billion into Russia in 2014, when Russia invested a whopping $151.5 billion during the same year into the Chinese economy."...

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-is-russia-shifting-focus-from-china-to-india-for-its-oil-barrels-2125053

As Mendy alludes to, China's playing their own game with Putin. Putin will figure it out about the same time Russia goes bankrupt.

Brass

[fathertime]

While browsing, this link popped up.  According to the story, the Russian military is demonstrating new abilities in Syria, on par with the US military in certain ways. 


New Russian military might on full display in Syria

....The air campaign in Syria, Russia's first military action outside the former Soviet Union since the war in Afghanistan, shows a revamped Russian military, which sharply differs in both capability and mindset from the old, Soviet-style force.

It is capable of quickly projecting power far from Russian borders, widely uses drones and precision weapons, and cares about soldiers' comfort.......

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-mission-demonstrates-russias-prowess-103015120.html




Fathertime!   

[mendeleyev]

Billy, when Russia has the population, and the economic might, to replace the USA then China might care. Right now, they simply keeping their commitment to BRICS alive, but the USA is a far bigger trading power than Russia.

You are misguided if you think that there were not heavy implications for Russia when China refused to support Russia on the voting to bring Ukraine into the UN Security Council, and China's refusal to side with Russia on the veto to have the UN investigate MH 17.

From where I sit as perhaps the only forum member who has traveled to China with two sitting Russian presidents, China is placing their bets carefully. Putin is aware, as there is a reason why the border with China dedicates a healthy percentage of Russia's military reserves even today.

[2tallbill]

Russia Said to Redeploy Special-Ops Forces From Ukraine to Syria
Russian, Western officials say elite units being sent to support Assad forces

By THOMAS GROVE of the Wall Street Journal
MOSCOW—Russia has sent a few dozen special-operations troops to Syria in recent weeks, Russian
and Western officials say, redeploying the elite units from Ukraine as the Kremlin shifts its focus to
supporting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Russia in late September launched a campaign of airstrikes in support of Mr. Assad’s government,
and President Vladimir Putin has said Russian troops won't play a role in ground combat. But Russian
military experts and officials say small numbers of special-forces units—whose missions are rarely
acknowledged publicly—are also on the ground in Syria.


Read all about it here
http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-said-to-redeploy-special-ops-forces-from-ukraine-to-syria-1445636834

[2tallbill]

I really don't think that the US will have any success in foreign policy while they
have lightweight John Kerry in the mix, but of course I would love to be wrong.

U.S., Russia, Turkey, Saudi weigh new ideas for Syria political transition to end war
Hamilton Spectator
By Matthew Lee

IENNA — The United States, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Turkey put forward new ideas Friday to revive a
failed push for a political transition in Syria that could end the country's civil war, U.S. Secretary of
State John Kerry said Friday. But they remained deeply divided over the future of Syrian President
Bashar Assad.

The top diplomats from the four countries agreed to meet again in an expanded format with representatives
from other nations next week, but the only concrete result of this week's talks appeared to be an agreement
between Jordan and Russia to co-ordinate military operations in Syria. Kerry said there was no decision
on whether to invite Iran, a major patron of Syria.

read the entire story here
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6033635-u-s-russia-turkey-saudi-weigh-new-ideas-for-syria-political-transition-to-end-war/

[BillyB]

You are misguided if you think that there were not heavy implications for Russia when China refused to support Russia on the voting to bring Ukraine into the UN Security Council, and China's refusal to side with Russia on the veto to have the UN investigate MH 17.

There are zero implications for Russia based on Chinese actions at the UN. It may mean something to you but to many, it means nothing. China voted to put Ukraine on the worthless security council, a Ukraine who may be under Russian influence again in the near future. Russia will never get punished for MH17. Too many nations, especially European, want to continue to do business with Russia.


China is a nation where a cow is worth more than a human. They don't give a rats ass about those who died on MH17. You don't care much about Russia based on their recent aggression. Why do you care about what China thinks? Why do you value their opinion and not Russia's who is a similar aggressor? It's okay for China to take over land as long as it's not Ukraine's? I get the feeling some here are wanting so bad for China to hate Russia and some even predicted China will invade Russia. China needs Russia to defect attention off their own land grabs. They need each other until America falls.

[mendeleyev]

Given the fact that Russian military doctrine authorizes a "regional nuclear" response to localized threats, I do not believe that China plans to invade militarily. However, and I continue to point this out, China is considered a prime threat by the Russians themselves. Despite any gas deals, Russia devotes a significant portion of military manpower and budget to the border. Today.

[Belvis]

However, and I continue to point this out, China is considered a prime threat by the Russians themselves. Despite any gas deals, Russia devotes a significant portion of military manpower and budget to the border.

I don't know about what Russians you're talking. Russian officials do not consider China as the prime threat, at least in public. From people, including locals who live near Russian-China border, I did not hear any fears. May be you mean jornalist's circles? I remember the theme of China expansion was popular in late 1990s but now Russians have drawn a different picture of global threats.
   Deployment of military manpower along the Chinese border can be traced back to Soviet times when China-Russia relations were at the lowest point after border conflicts. Not easy to move the established military bases to another locations, and besides the army serves as  pioneers in sparsely populated regions of Siberia.

[Brasscasing]

Is that what the Kremlin's telling the Russian people now...The vaunted Russian military has giant laser shooting robots?

Brass