Donhollio's FSU Pursuit!

[Donhollio]

  After some badly needed rest back at Guy's home I awoke to an invite from him to head down to a local beach. He currently had a renter in his spare bedroom and I was in need of some accommodations. I had some bad thoughts of what if I'm stuck renting a tourist apartment, and dropping $75-100 a day. Doing this over ten weeks could really have a negative effect on my happiness. But it's a very good thing I have an excellent support group in Odessa, I just knew I'd be taken care of.
 I've decided to wait on plan B until I see Sveta, I just don't feel right about going to see the others before I see her. She knows I'm warm for her, so if I travel around and get pinched, it very likely would be curtains, and I really don't want that.
However... being that I am here, I did try to contact the others, after all plan B must still be considered no matter how much I want Sveta to be the one. So while I was preparing for this trip, I managed to round up a few other girls scattered around the country. 

 Having girls in different cities can both be good and bad. Some of the pros are, you won't get spotted by any of the other girls you may have dated or called it off with. You get to visit different cites and see some more of the country. But many times it just adds to the stress of trying to move around in a country that is not very ... no wait, is not tourist friendly. Sadly the businesses that should be helpful are often the worst. Having some English in the train stations would be a huge step forward in tourism, but they seem to fall short of offering any assistance. Finding a place to sleep can also be a hardship, and than you have to seek out what restaurants to eat at, and get the basic essentials.
You can take it in stride, and just realise that it's just some of the hurdles of travelling around a country where you can't read or speak the language.


  So my plan B included the following...


 Svetlana in Dnepropetrovsk.
 
 I was curious to meet her after spending weeks in her city and not being able to contact her (she never replied to her emails), yet the day after I left, she writes back wanting to meet. She sent that email while I was flying over the ocean. That's just my luck, I leave...she writes. Svetlana speaks a little English so it will be difficult, but you just don't know what will happen unless you meet.

 Katya in Dnepropetrovsk.

  Had a couple of conversations with her again, the more I try to carry the conversation with her the less I want to see her. I offered to come up to Dnepropetrovsk some weekend, and after thought why not invite her to come to Odessa. It makes the most sense, she could stay with me and we go to the beach for a couple of days. However I am more confident now than ever, that we just aren't compatible. Though I would try one more visit to see if she is the same person I left last fall. It's almost like she has two personality's, one in person, and one that comes into play once you're far away. And yet sometimes on the phone she's great, and other times I feel like I'm trying way too hard to make it work. Arrrg!

 Olga in Kharkov.

 She was one from a free site. I spoke with her a few times on the phone from Canada, she seemed really nice. So once I was in Odessa I made a call to her, and it just rang. I hung up, then seconds later my cell rings with a ring I never heard before, it displayed Olgas name. Figuring this was her calling back, letting it ring once to have me see the display, then I would call her back. They do this a lot as incoming calls are free to receive, and out going calls cost money. No problem, I call her back...no answer.
 I found this strange as she always got back to me with SMS in minutes, now silence. Maybe she's pissed at me thinking I'm just here to see other girls. I never told her I was coming just for her, and she never asked. So I sent her a SMS the following morning, and she was never to be heard from again. In hindsite I should of kept in better contact with her, I never told her when I was going, and I guess in her eyes having me sit in Odessa, was a man who was not there to see her. Oh well, live and learn, it's just one of the risks one takes when visiting many girls on a trip.

 Oksana in Kharkov.

  Little Susha from my second trip. She's is so nice, I phoned her and we talked for about ten minutes. I told her I was in Odessa and we can arrange to meet later on. She's the first Ukraine girl I got into, I decided she would be my first one to visit if I needed to enact the dreaded plan B.

 When I met Oksana in 2004 she told me she had never been to Odessa, and had been to Kyiv only once, so she hasn't seen much of her country. I told her what Odessa was like, and she seemed to be interested to see it, though I didn't press the idea. She had no love affair with the sea, being from Kharkov you just don't have that daily reminder like in Odessa.
 So things with her will be fine, however I don't think romance will be happening. Unless she sees me differently now, and there's only one way to find out.

 As for my beautiful friend Anna from Odessa, I have yet to hear from her. I'm getting concerned, she had some serious problems last year, and maybe shes back in the hospital. Her phone is off, so maybe I will try to call her mom and try to understand whats going on.
 So that is what my fourth trip lineup had going for it. So just how did it all unfold? 

Well while Sveta was in Russia, Guy suggested I should meet other girls, sounds good but I didn't want to risk any blowback. Guy's girlfriend has this one girl she wants me to meet, I think she is with some agency here in Odessa. But I told them I will wait until I see sexy Sveta. Personally from what I know of her, she would be very hurt and I would lose her. So I will wait until I need to use Plan B, besides I have ten weeks to spend here.

[Noch1]

Enjoying the read, keep it coming

[BillyB]

So once I was in Odessa I made a call to her, and it just rang. I hung up, then seconds later my cell rings with a ring I never heard before, it displayed Olgas name. Figuring this was her calling back, letting it ring once to have me see the display, then I would call her back. They do this a lot as incoming calls are free to receive, and out going calls cost money. No problem, I call her back...no answer.

I've had some women even call me in America using the same technique of letting it ring once and hang up. The goal is to get their number on my phone so I can call back with me paying for the call. I have no problem with that either.

[Donhollio]

 
 In the absence of having Sveta in town I would just spend the days down at the beach, it was hell at times. Topless girls and cold 500ml bottles of beer.  With Guy working his school in the evenings, we usually had a few days where we could relax, have a few drinks and shoot the breeze. The days went by slowly, often falling into a routine that had little to do with finding a girl, and was based on relaxing. My days would go like this, roll out of bed around 9:30-10am, have some juice and watch the days news on CNN or BBC. Than if the beach wasn't going to happen, I would go to the centre and visit an internet cafe. 
 One thing about those cafes, they really vary in services offered. Some are so slow, others are so worn out you can't even see the letters on the key pad. But for anyone needing the best one, you need to go to Planet Internet near the Black sea hotel. You can even make international calls at a very low per minute fee.
From there I would go have some lunch, go walk to some market or park, and just have the day slip by. A couple of days after my arrival Guy managed to get me into a tiny room for rent right across the street from his home. It was a seasonal room, used only to generate some income during the summer beach season. I suppose I could of gotten a real place in the centre from Matt, but the cost would be more than the low $10 per night I was paying.

 There was nothing fancy about the 'bunker.' Two beds, night table, two windows and a door that wasn't made of metal. Total area was about the size of two queen size beds, but it was fine as the place was located in a fenced compound. I even had a outhouse to use 24 hrs a day! With an outside kitchen and eating table. What more can a cheap traveller want? Being across from Guys was convenient, and I figured it will do until either his roommate moves out, or things click with SS. Then I would move into something more desireable.

 Finally the SMS came telling me that sexy Sveta was back! We arranged a plan to meet and being that I knew some parts of the city, we decided on a McDonald's right near a Pan Pizza location on Shevchenko.

  I arrived first and waited for Sveta. When she stepped off the bus, she looked so damn good! Crossing the street she suggested we walk in the nearby park. Now I have walked in this park several times, and found it odd that she would want to walk there in her 10cm heels. But she liked the park and wanted to show me some of the new items that they have added. So off we went.
 Everything was in check, the glare from my semi chrome dome wasn't blinding her... I never stumbled once, always gave way for her to walk on the best part of the beat up sidewalk. And offered her something to drink. Body language was in check, and a little mutual exchange of  "enjoyed the evening" SMS followed. Sveta is a great girl, she has a playful caring ease that I enjoy. And she doesn't ask for anything, just spending time together seems to be good for her. One thing about Sveta is that she can be quite the tease, not so much in a sexual sense, but her being careful in all that she says. As the evening ended we went over to her bus stop and even though I offered her a taxi ride home she declined. I earlier asked her if she ever got upset as she always seemed happy with her life, she seemed to be quite comfortable with everything, nothing rattled her.

 So finally her bus arrives and I go to hand her 2 UAH for the ride home. Well the next minute was a total shock to me, not only was she refusing my money, she got angry and slightly embarrassed! This was a first for me, and I just stood there wondering why would taking 2 UAH from a guy to board the bus be seen as a source of this anger. I mean it hardly could be seen as a pay off for something, but yet she was really mad. So much so that the bus took off without her. I asked her whats the problem with me giving her bus fare and she just told me , "If you want to know what makes me upset, this is one thing."Okaay..."  Completely bewildered by this I hung around until her next bus arrived, and I kept my hands, and cash in my pocket. I made a gesture to let her know I wasn't going to offer to pay her fare, and she lightened up and smiled back while boarding.

[Donhollio]

 With SS still onboard I arrange for a Saturday night out at Arkadia. She doesn't have much interest in nightclubs, I don't know what it was with Odessa girls that I met, all disliked the club scene. Anyway we go to eat at a restaurant called, Asole. Yes it does sound very close to what you think. Basically it's a 1500-1700's style ship on land overlooking the sea. She was concerned about going there to eat because a friend of hers said it was expensive. I told her not to worry about it, and if she really doesn't want to dine there, than we can go elsewhere.
The meal with wine, salad and main plate was 145 UAH. You can decide if it's a lot, I didn't think so with the good service we had, sometimes a rarity in Ukraine. So everything went really good, and again the body and eyes were dead on. I made sure I sat with my back away from the crowd, (keeps the eyes on where they should be...her) I know that sounds bad, but anyone being to Arkadia on a weekend night knows what I am talking about, and habits are hard to break. But I did manage to tune it all out, and really it wasn't that difficult at all. Sveta can hold her own in a crowd of smokinhotkova's. And I would get lost looking at those big blue eyes.
After dinner we went for a walk down to the sea, and chatted for almost a hour there. Like all Odessite's, Sveta loves the sea. In the background we could hear the bustle of the nightclubs and yet still could hear the surf hitting the beach. With the light hitting her, it all seemed so good. She would comment on how nice the breeze of sea air is, and then say how it could be better if the place not had such a rundown look to it. It's the one thing that always caused me to pause and reflect upon, how you would have total decay of infrastructure, and yet these beautifully dressed females would walk in high heels over rugged terrain, with the ease of an albatross gliding above the ocean swells.
 
 One noticeable thing about Sveta is she holds a lot in. She told me this from Canada, and it's also why we never connected last year when I was in Odessa. What I did find out is mama ain't too pleased with me. I did press this of course, trying to find out what it is exactly she doesn't like about her daughter seeing me, but she wouldn't budge. I'm sure it has to do with the fact she could leave, and mama will be living alone. I causally asked Sveta again about it Monday night. And she just laughed, and said her mom asked alot of questions about our Saturday night together, and wanted to know everything.
 I can understand that completely, it has since been one of the question's I ask any girl I write to very early on. However Sveta says she can make her own decisions, and her mother wasn't going to tell her what she can, and can't do. Atta girl.
Though I suppose dropping her off around 3:30am didn't help. I have never had a mom not like me, I don't want this to be a first.
Anyway back to Arkadia. We also met up with Guy and his girlfriend since we all know each other. Guy was really wanting to meet up, and I think they were really wanting to see us together. It kind of reminded me of a set of parents at times. Oh well, if it weren't for Guy I would never have met her. We made arrangements to meet at a patio overlooking the beach. Now at first I was full of apprehension about doing this. I mean the night was going really good, and did I want to change the mood of the night? At first we planned to just meet for fifteen minutes near IBIZA and than leave, but Guy can really be persistant.
 As I mentioned Sveta isn't a big fan of nightclubs, and we were wanting to get out of Arkadia due to the loud music coming from every direction. She wanted to talk, as I did too. But it all worked out for the best as the patio was quiet, with a view of the full moon and sea. Looking over the sea I asked Sveta if she had ever howled at the moon...  Hey, it seemed natural at the time!
 She said she had never, so I took her to the edge of the patio.... away from everyone else... and did my best, albeit quite poor howl. Sveta lit right up and gave her best howl! It was silly yet fun to have a girl with such a great personality to be around. In the end the four of us had a nice evening together, and the next morning I would quiz Guy on how he thought things were between SS and me, being that they both know her better than I do.
 I wanted to find out from them how she seemed. Guy said she was very relaxed and comfortable with me. Lena said she was having a very good time, but told me Sveta is the type of girl that will take a lot of time to get things rolling. More or less along what I had already known.
 It was during this Saturday night date Sveta was determined to get me on a horse. I've never been on one, and I'm more then a little worried about it. If I go I'll ask her to get me on one that's on the way to the glue factory, or something that won't take off on me. Mind you I'd just jump off and let it do whatever horses do when that happens. They also have a dolphin show that she has not seen, so we planned  to take that in another time as well.

[Donhollio]

 
   My time with Sveta was moving along, however I knew something was amiss the following week when she had a friend come to town from Moscow. Her friend was here only for the week, and understandably Sveta wanted to see her. So Tuesday was their night to meet, and I stayed home. Wednesday she worked late, and Thursday she went out again with her friend. Now I was seeing bad signs everywhere over this, a night out and I'm not invited? I had asked her if they were going to be meeting some other guys, and that it would be only the two of them. Not the best move I'll admit although I really didn't pry too heavy into it. I just poised the question in a calm manner, not some jealous loon. I really had no reason to doubt her, and deep down I knew that the end was in sight.

  Saturday night rolls in and we finally met up. I was determined to find out where we stand, all the while I was in the early stages of getting plan B into effect. Always have a plan B boys....always.
After some time hanging out on the pier near the hotel Odessa, I really wanted to know where we were at. She of course was vague as she has always been, from the first time I met her last year. But I knew I had hours to find out so it wasn't going to be some night of interrogation. Just a night out with good conversation and some laughs.
We first stopped at Top Sandwich for a light supper, my food had mayo and I'm deadly allergic to eggs, but luckily I caught it in time. I did however got some side effects from the little I ate, so we went to the apteka (pharmacy) for some medication. These little free enterprise med stores will sell all kinds of prescription drugs, and it seems a Doctors prescription is never needed. One nice thing about the apteka is that you can walk in and buy one pill, or as many as you wish.
 You want some Viagra, just purchase a pill as needed, same goes for codeine based pain relief. Seems it's all there to be had, and you aren't stuck with a bottle of pills at the end of the day. Anyway Sveta insists on getting something for my churning stomach, and I'm not in any disagreement. From what I was able to gather is that I bought some kind of antacid, in a bubble pack neatly cut from the rest of the pills that were in the box.
 Damn eggs are a big problem for me, you can't taste them, smell them, or see them in food, and yet they're added to so many types of foods, that its really a game of Russian roulette for me. So I tend to do my best to stay safe, it's one of the reasons I eat at McDonald's while there. I know the food won't kill me via the egg. But I keep forgetting that in Ukraine they love their mayo, you'll even find it mixed in with the pizza sauce.

 Leaving the drug store we walked over the the new area just off Deribascova and sat down. It's a nice cobble stoned courtyard, all done in some very nice granite. Sitting there we talked a lot about many things, and then through a series of gentle proding, and some teasing her about her "careful" behavior, I got it out of her. Of course it was bad news, I really didn't expect anything else to come out. She felt bad and wondered if telling me honestly was the best thing to do. I told it was and said not to feel bad. That I was happy to know now, and not weeks down the road.
 Everything is cool between us, and we still had plans for the beach the next day, but like I've say it's never easy, and she sends me a SMS to say her friend Niome wasn't comfortable to be seen in her beach attire with me there. I know Niome, and she is big by Ukraine standards, but not Canadian. Sveta also mentioned in the past how she is very self conscience of her weight. Great, I wanted to see Sveta in that bikini! Hell I don't mind seeing a bigger girl in a bikini, it makes for a nice variety on the beach. With a beach date cancelled I was wondering if there would be a next time.

 Now my Saturday is pretty much trashed, so off to the I-net cafe I go. I get a call from Anna, she wants to hit the beach. But it would be 3pm by the time we get there, and I offer instead to go on Sunday. I check up on some stuff at the I-net cafe, and head off to Pan Pizza. A meal costs about six dollars and they have English menus. I eat there two to three times a week, and this day I decided to have the salad bar. Big mistake! I was on my way back home on the tram to my little dacha (summer house), when I began to feel the early stages of a soon to be reaction to something in the salad I ate.
 
 During the Walk from the tram to my place (15mins) it got worse. I was getting hives, and I knew I was in a lot of trouble. I hadn't had hives since the last time I ate egg laced food, and my level of concern was growing rapidly by the second!
I entered my courtyard and began to splash water on my face, hoping it would do something. But it did nothing. I could feel my body was in some serious trouble. My throat was swelling, hives were everywhere on my body and head, and when I looked in the mirror I looked like a much old person. It was almost surreal looking at some face that aged twenty years.
  I knew I needed some medical help fast. I placed a call to my friend Guy who was down at the beach.
He could tell instantly that there was something very wrong, and quickly got his girlfriend to get a ambulance over to me. Hanging up I walked to my room to get some antihistamines that I tend to bring with me on trips. As I approached the door with the huge key, I tried to focus to get it in the slot. But I was seeing triple what I should of been, but I kept trying. I knew this had gone from a mind reaction maybe four minutes before, to life threatening!
 
 There was nobody around, and even so they spoke no English. Besides at this point my speech was so impaired by the swelling that even a native English person would have trouble making sense of what I would be trying to say. With my blood pressure dropping, and my vision failing, I fall backwards onto my eating table. I was out cold...
 When I woke up, still laying with my back on the table, I slid down and got on a chair. I figured I may have been out for ten minutes, but who knows  I remember saying to myself I didn't want to die in Odessa, and that it's a shitty way to end your European holiday. I had been in similar life threatening situations before, and I really thought this was it.

  I called Guy again as I couldn't get up to walk twenty feet to the house and get the landlady. I felt completely exhausted, and yet I knew I had to make it to the door to get some help. But all I could do was keep my balance while sitting in the chair. It took what seemed like five minutes to have enough energy to stand and walk to the landlady's door. I yell out," zhenshchina! zhenchina! (woman)
 She sees me, and the look on her face, said everything I needed for her to understand. I told her I have an egg allergy in Russian. I know the word egg in about seven languages. But strange to me at the time, instead of running to the phone, and getting a medical team, she darts to the neighbours fence, and starts yelling for some woman. I am pleading with her to call an ambulance, and she is doing hand gestures wishing me to calm down, and everything is under control. I stagger to a bench and laydown. I'm too tired to do anything else.
 Moments later the neighbour appears, turns out shes a Doctor, and one that speaks very good English! What a lucky break I'm thinking. She takes my pressure and calmly asks me to continue to lay down, saying my lips and finger tips are quite blue. Telling me the ambulance is on the way. I'm thinking my most dreaded thoughts about travelling are coming true.... I'm about to enter the Ukraine medical system!

  In Canada this is high priority, having had a similar situation a couple of years before. But in Ukraine its well.... so-so. After about thirty minutes one finally arrives. A doctor and his assistant I'm told.
 First things first... he lights a smoke! An f'n SMOKE! Now I'm thinking I have a Monty Python script unfolding before me! I almost begin to laugh except my throat was too swollen to muster anything. It was everything I imagined about Ukraine healthcare.
  So after his smoke he was ready to start on me, I'm not kidding people, the one guy opens up his tackle box and produces a needle. Now I'm aware that in Ukraine they sometimes reuse needles, and I wearily lift my head and ask if it's new, before plopping it back down. He produces the wrapper it came from, and I'm feeling like I am about to get all the HEP's known to man! At this point Guy's roommate comes over to help in any way he can, he knows Russian.
 The  injection didn't go so well, seems he missed whatever it was he was aiming for. And I wound up with a batch of who knows what in my arm, and the liquid was sitting in a large lump under my skin. It took about two months for it to finally dissipate.

 Now Dr. Helliday wanted to pump out my stomach. I am laying there wondering when this experiment will all end, and I'll be returned to earth. But again I am too exhausted to put up any fight. Again into the tackle box he goes, drawing out this murky opaque tube that was once as clear as glass. I'm told to keep swallowing, I guess the swollen throat hadn't crossed their minds, and so....
 In goes this well used tube, seconds later I say to myself ,"fuck this retarded shit!" and I push him away with the tube in tow.
 I really want this to end, I only want some sleep. The English speaking Doctor than tells me they will take me to a hospital... a nice western style one, and I'm not to worry about it. I really 'had' no reason to doubt her. So far we have a EMS crew that have a cigarette before looking at their patient, misses the vein, sticks a used tube into a swollen throat, yeah f'all to be concerned about really. She tells me to collect some money, and by this time I'm able to walk. So I grab 100 UAH and I'm thinking this is more than enough for the 'fine' service I have received. I don't trust this upcoming hospital, and I really just want to stay home and rest.

 Into the empty ambulance and off we head to this "good hospital." As we're rolling along he writes down how much they are going to charge me... $50USD Hmmm... well let's see, you jam a tube down a guy who's throat is swollen. Give me some injection, and its sitting in one spot under my skin. Decided to have a smoke before walking over to me to give me that useless injection, and now you want $50USD. 

 Did I mention how much I wanted this to end? 

 So I pull out the wallet and take all my money out, 100 UAH, showing him my now empty wallet. He's seems happy and takes it. He relays to the driver how much he got, and I sense it's not going to be a trip to the nice hospital now. They chat back and forth, and minutes later I am taken off the vehicle, and walked down a flight of stairs into a dark gloomy place that must be a hospital for those who have no money to pay for healthcare. There I sat in a room where another ambulance brought in a young girl, in her late teens early twenties. She was unconscious and completely naked, and now laying at my feet. No medical staff came by for several minutes, the girl didn't move, but she was breathing. Finally a nurse covered her body and walked out of the room.

Once Guy's girlfriend arrived the doctor explained everything. He even apologised for the place. The Doctor didn't know why they brought me to this hospital, (I did) and offered to give some prescription and send me off. He figured I wasn't in the mood to stay the night. Good observation doctor.

 So back at my little room I reflect on the way my afternoon went, and how I lived another day. I have no girl, and I'm now down to three lives from nine. Can't wait for the coming years! I decided to enact my plan B.
 I got Lena working with her matchmaker, and little Susha is waiting to see me again after I wrote her a letter. She replied just as I had hoped, and I will call her this week and see about making a weekend visit to her. I got two in Dnepropetrovsk to see as well.

 From than on if it fails with them.....

[ML]

OMG . . . I almost died along with you !!

I had one medical experience in Ukraine.

Not nearly as bad as yours . . . but worried about it all the same.

[Faux Pas]

Don, so why did Sveta give you the heave? Did I miss that?

[Donhollio]

 I was told they have first rate hospitals in Ukraine, but it costs money of course. I don't wish it on anybody who isn't fluent in Russian, as it just damn scary not knowing what's going on around you.

 Faux Pas,  Sveta gave me a the heave-ho due to not having any romantic interest. She found us to be too different. Now had I managed to get together with her the year before like I wanted to, a few dates in she would of given me the heave and I wouldn't of made this 4^th trip.

 Something I think a lot of guys forget is these females are use to the local men. We western guys act  different, our set of morals are not the same, and I'm not saying all of them are like this, but in my experience this is what I noticed and was told by a couple local females. One time out with Olya she just mentioned how she can't believe the difference in WM to RM. I asked her how we were different and she said in everything, there was no comparison.
 So maybe for some females that try dating a WM they soon find out that we're too different to fall in love with.

[ML]

Don, I thought that your writing implied that when friends from Moscow came down to visit Sveta . . . that one of them was a man friend.  You said something like . . . you asked her, feared the worst, and it was true.

[ML]

Something I think a lot of guys forget is these females are use to the local men. We western guys act  different, our set of morals are not the same, and I'm not saying all of them are like this, but in my experience this is what I noticed and was told by a couple local females. One time out with Olya she just mentioned how she can't believe the difference in WM to RM. I asked her how we were different and she said in everything, there was no comparison.
 So maybe for some females that try dating a WM they soon find out that we're too different to fall in love with.

Interesting.  I spent time with over a hundred FSU gals, and none of them said anything about this big difference between WM and RM that you allude to.

Sure some minor things here and there.

[Faux Pas]

Yeah I'll have to go with ML, although my number wasn't hundreds. There's nuances certainly but worlds of differences, not so much IMO. I don't recall you mentioning the age difference between you and Sveta. Perhaps it was more of a generational gap? How many foreigners had Sveta dated?

Sure there's some differences but certainly nothing that would make a WM undateable.

I'm enjoying the read and don't want to derail your thread but, you glossed over that tidbit and it's good info for newbies.

[Gator]

Interesting.  I spent time with over a hundred FSU gals, and none of them said anything about this big difference between WM and RM that you allude to.

All of us are different. Just look at the Presidential candidates.   So perhaps some of us have behavioral traits that are more in the sphere of RM mentality, and are better suited to deal with RW mentality, recognizing that their mentality differs from individual to individual. 

I hear not infrequently the phrase, "You are not a Russian man; a Russian man would...."  It is almost always when I am not meeting her approval.  My response is to ask why.  Sometimes I change, and sometimes I stress that all of us are different.  And we drop the subject.   

[Gator]

So maybe for some females that try dating a WM they soon find out that we're too different to fall in love with.

Or the man walks away because it is too much trouble.

[Faux Pas]

I hear not infrequently the phrase, "You are not a Russian man; a Russian man would...."  It is almost always when I am not meeting her approval.  My response is to ask why.  Sometimes I change, and sometimes I stress that all of us are different.  And we drop the subject.   

I can honestly state that I have never heard that and wouldn't be pleased with it if I did. Perhaps that makes me more like a Russian man? That would be a good topic for a new thread that  I don't recall seeing before or maybe I just missed it?

[jone]

Funny, Don, that you should bring up the difference between Russian men and Western men.  As I have been reading your tale, I find you becoming more and more Russian as the tale goes on.

Please, by all means, continue with your story.

[ML]

I can honestly state that I have never heard that and wouldn't be pleased with it if I did.

Ditto for me . . . on both counts.

[jone]

I don't know about the readership here, but I can tell anyone reading my post that having read this trip report and others like it, I have learned a lot about what to do and what not to do with an FSU woman.

For instance:

1.  Always be very direct with a woman.  Compliment her, but not overly so.  Because of the differences in languages, you can never be sure that a woman understands the intent of your words.  So choose words carefully and slowly and say the same sentence using different word groups until you are sure she understands.

2.  Do not tease until you know an FSU woman very well.  Chances are that an FSU woman will not understand the teasing and will either think you have lost your faculties or are insulting her.  If you do choose to tease, tell her that you are teasing her as you are in the process to make sure she understands that it is a moment of levity.  Even then, the teasing should be very light and not sophisticated.

3.  You never get a second chance to make a first impression.  Dress nicely, be clean and be responsible.  That means arriving on time, taking control of the meeting and do not be greedy.

These are a couple of rules for myself and I have many others but do not want to steal Don's thread.

[Faux Pas]

I don't know about the readership here, but I can tell anyone reading my post that having read this trip report and others like it, I have learned a lot about what to do and what not to do with an FSU woman.

For instance:

1.  Always be very direct with a woman.  Compliment her, but not overly so.  Because of the differences in languages, you can never be sure that a woman understands the intent of your words.  So choose words carefully and slowly and say the same sentence using different word groups until you are sure she understands.

2.  Do not tease until you know an FSU woman very well.  Chances are that an FSU woman will not understand the teasing and will either think you have lost your faculties or are insulting her.  If you do choose to tease, tell her that you are teasing her as you are in the process to make sure she understands that it is a moment of levity.  Even then, the teasing should be very light and not sophisticated.

3.  You never get a second chance to make a first impression.  Dress nicely, be clean and be responsible.  That means arriving on time, taking control of the meeting and do not be greedy.

These are a couple of rules for myself and I have many others but do not want to steal Don's thread.

I dunno jone. Paramount I would think is to be yourself. You seem to be advocating differently?

[ML]

And Jone, please avoid using the word 'greedy' when writing here.

Newcomers reading do not know that FSU folks misuse the word greedy, so they will be mystified when you use the word.

[jone]

F.P. -

When I met my woman, I used a subset of myself.  From previous relationships trial and error, and from things I learned here, I knew that unless she understood my underlying emotions and the gist of the conversation, I would lose her.  As time went on, and she was able understand me better, and I showed the more American side of me. 

I have been traveling to Russia and Eastern Europe for many years.  I show a much more conservative side of myself there than I do in interactions with Westerners.

ML -

You are absolutely right:  Greedy means Cheap to those from the FSU.

[Faux Pas]

F.P. -

When I met my woman, I used a subset of myself.  From previous relationships trial and error, and from things I learned here, I knew that unless she understood my underlying emotions and the gist of the conversation, I would lose her.  As time went on, and she was able understand me better, and I showed the more American side of me. 

I have been traveling to Russia and Eastern Europe for many years.  I show a much more conservative side of myself there than I do in interactions with Westerners.

ML -

You are absolutely right:  Greedy means Cheap to those from the FSU.

I can understand and go along with that, and add, I was initially on my best behavior but as the interaction opened up, so did my normal behavior. Which is less the gentleman and formality, then tend to have a dry quick wit and normally brutally honest yet, direct and often playful. I never attempted to disguise anything.

[Chicagoguy]

I can honestly state that I have never heard that and wouldn't be pleased with it if I did. Perhaps that makes me more like a Russian man? That would be a good topic for a new thread that  I don't recall seeing before or maybe I just missed it?

My wife has told me many times that she married me because she did not like Russian men. Never did. Age 50 and never married.

[JayH]

.

I'm enjoying the read and don't want to derail your thread but, you glossed over that tidbit and it's good info for newbies.

There is so much good information in Don's thread that raises so many points of interest for all to read and be entertained.

My view is that the thread being posted is here to invite and raise discussion --as that expands the points of interest( & thread readership and relevance)  for us all.

Even the comments today( note--all from now experienced guys!) shows that very well-- and they all add to the thread !

Don's story is a work of art!


ps to Don-- I suggest you hold off on the next episode  to wait for comments at any time to be given air time !

[Donhollio]

I don't recall you mentioning the age difference between you and Sveta. Perhaps it was more of a generational gap? How many foreigners had Sveta dated?

 Sveta dated none except me. She was never in any agency. I do believe she is 11 years younger. I should know as I wished her a happy birthday last month. 

 I found the agency girls in Odessa to be a waste of my time, Anna was the exception, and she was done with the agency life before I had arrived to meet her. I did have the good fortune to have Guy who introduced me to a bunch of girls, who were very unlike the well spoken Odessa agency girls that I gathered were quite popular. Some showed up for their date with me, some didn't. Some expected a dinner, and some just wanted to walk.
 But if I had to give my opinion on it all I'd say a few too many American girl chasers showed up at a few too many socials, and they spent their money on these girls like sailors on 48 hours of shore leave. But if one gets out of that scene the city is loaded with super nice girls.

ps to Don-- I suggest you hold off on the next episode  to wait for comments at any time to be given air time !

 Ok JayH I'll hold off until next week.