low profile

[andrewfi]

BC ~ I know that I would agree with you if this was an isolated incident. The first time that Clyde had shared with us some aspect of deceitful behviour or a wish to isolate him from those that might urge him to gainsay what she tells him.

Of course we know almost nothing, only what Clyde has told us and so any comment is made purely in that context and through the twin lenses of context and comparison.

Of course we should not forget that this is not a reciprocal arrangement, at least as far as we know. Clyde's wife is not going to be agreeing not to have her friends and support group snooping on Clyde... She will maintain her network of buddies and advisors, unless she is more dim than her actions thus far suggest.

Now, I do not know the woman, but Clyde seems a decent sort of cove and thus, proceeding on the basis that I will like the people that people I like like, I am sure that she is a decent woman. It does not make her perfect, or any kind of paragon. Given the lenses of context and comparison, I know that I would be impelled to resist urges to restrict contact with those who gave me succour and support. I would be upset that instead of talking to me about an issue, my partner chose to use a third party to spy upon me - even allowing for issues of communication, this goes beyond the pale.

Given that a pattern is forming in Clyde's disclosed relationship, I would be inclined to urge him to resist his wife's restrictions upon his freedom of association.

IMHO this is not about him 'growing a spine' or similar. Clyde is who he is, but that does nto mean that he can ignore the issues that swirl around him. None of us can, we have to deal with them in the manner that best suits our personal style and, sometimes, just sometimes, go against the dictates of our normal behaviour patterns.
I am reminded of my situation as a kid. I was verbally and physically bullied at school and my mother taught me the ridiculous and useless credo of not fighting back. One day, in shame, anger and embarassment I turned on a tormentor, pushed him to the ground and gave him as effective a pasting as a nine year old kid can give another. Although I was punished by both the school and my mother for fighting, I felt much better and I found that my life at that school improved significantly. I acted completely out of character, but showed that I was no longer a suitable and safe target. In doing so, I stopped being a target.
Clyde, I think, needs to step far enough out of his character to deal with the strength of this woman. It will make the rest of his life more pleasant.

[Bruce]

Alot of great advice for Clyde.  I see three huge issues here.  One is their ability to communicate which they are working on daily.  The second is control.  I think Clyde should do the things he likes to do and his wife should not control what he does.  She may discuss limitations in his interactions with the board.  So, Clyde, explain to your wife that she does such and such and you do this and this, and if she wants you off the board then you do not want her participating in whatever.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander.  If not, write doormat on your forehead.  The third is spying / monitoring - which comes to an issue of trust and faith in ones partner.  Clyde, I would seriously look into why your wife feels she needs to monitor your activities, especially through a third party.  What harm does posting on this board do?  Even if you regularly post photos of yourself, who the heck is going to look for you?  Even if someone found you what would that do to you / your relationship?   The answer is nothing - unless you choose to make it something.  I am not saying this is the case with your relationship, but sometimes the ones who feel a need to monitor / spy are doing so because they are up to no good themselves.  You need to get this issue resolved and stopped immediately.  Sit down and work it out - and do not cave in.  If you do cave in to her you will fast approach Andrew's eloquently presented proverbial wall and then think how you will feel?  You cold move ahead together harmoniously or you can continue to back into the wall.  The future is now.   Good luck  .

[BC]

Andrew,

Yes there were other 'incidents' Clyde described lately and quite honestly, my wife would probably have reacted in similar fashion given the same circumstances.

IIRC there are very plausible explainations for many if not all of these incidents.

Even this 'spying' issue is the result of distrust brought about by Clyde revealing too much personal information, probably without true consent or knowledge.  If I learned that my wife was posting about our personal affairs without me knowing about it I would feel the same.

Those thinking she is a 'control freak' should learn to turn the tables and understand.. if you are not able to do this then don't chase RW.

She is obviously not a happy camper with the current situation.  It is up to Clyde to deal with it and turn things around by learning to see the world through her eyes instead.

Throwing a tantrum as some here seem to suggest is necessary will not help Clyde at all.

Those with egocentric tendencies will have a difficult time with strong minded RW.

[Shadow]

I fully agee with BC about this topic.
Clyde has turned here, especially in the beginning, only to try and sort out the issues that he had no experience with. As a result people are convinced his marriage is going to drop apart. In my opinion that is only going to happen if Clyde would act on the advise given here.
I like to think that he is smart enough not to do things that are out of his character as playing the big alpha male and making a big fight. While it is clear that at times things are tough, I am pretty sure that there are many good times as well.

People tend to forget that Clyde was never married before. And yes there is a difference between being married and living together without being married.  The most important thing is to make it work, and for that both people have to learn the habits of each other. Sometimes it goes smooth, other times it is a bumpy ride.
What is clear is that Clyde's wife does not approve of his post here, and I think the negative comments on his marriage are a big part of it. Imagine you are married and you hear the friends of your wife are telling her she is a loser and needs to get out of the marriage.

Let's have some respect for Clyde's wife.

[andrewfi]

It is perfectly possible to have respect for somebody whilst, at the same time, decrying their actions or words.

That said, it is not really possible to respect somebody that one does not know, has never had communication with. For myself, given that lack of knowledge of the person I am neutral in that regard, but I certainly can and do decry what she is doing and saying.

As I already wrote, I am sure that, because Clyde seems to be a decent sort of a cove that I would probably like her too. That is normal. If we live in a world where it is not possible to comment objectively, truthfully and based upon our knowledge and experience then we live in a fairly unfortunate sort of a place. Fortunately, I do not live in such a world. I do not see myself reigning in my comments and input based upon what an unknown person may feel about them. The reaction of the unknown third party is an issue for that person, not for me.

Now, I do not suggest that Clyde's marriage is going to fail. It may or may not do, but it will not be becasue of what ANYONE on this board writes here. It may fail because of how another person is, or acts, be that Clyde or his wife.

The points I have made are general. IMHO they apply in ANY relationship, be it marriage, friendship, or even co-workers. They are about how people interact and thus we do not need to know everything about Clyde's marriage to be able to make insightful comments. (we don't have to p!ss on the electric fence to know of the painful outcome!)

In general:
If a bullying (OK domineering) person perceives that a winning strategy is to pressure his/her target then that is what will happen.

If a person chooses to give in to another, more forceful personality, it DOES become harder to resist on each successive occasion.

If a person perceives that spying on another, or manipulating others to do so, is a winning strategy, then they will do so and will continue to do so - acquiesence by the spied upon is taken as agreement to the loss of freedom.

All of these things we can look at in out lives and agree with. So, why should we suggest that in Clyde's case, there is some magick, deriving from the person to whom he is married?

Of course, upon reflection we should not and would not.

If it helps, for those who have been responsible for employing others, how would YOU deal with an employee who came to you telling you that he was being spied upon by a co-worker and who was bullying him in order to get his/her way?

Would you tell the employee to do nothing and ignore it, or to give in to the bullying?

--- Nope, I did not think so.

So why should Clyde?

If he does continue to give in to bullying and deceitful actions his marriage is over anyway. Only by attempting to modify the bahaviour of his wife will he ever have the chance to continue his marriage as anything other than an empty shell.

There is no place more lonely than a double bed with two people in it who do not any longer share affection or love.

[Bruno]

Only by attempting to modify the bahaviour of his wife will he ever have the chance to continue his marriage as anything other than an empty shell.

 

In these case, i think that Soc need to modify his behaviour... he need to realize that he is not more living alone... That when he say a few month ago that he will not more post personal thing, he need respect his own words... Why his wife spied him?... Simply because she have loose trust in him since he have not respect a previous agreement...

Never forget that when you marry someone, you are not more alone... that you share a common life where both partner have some right AND duty... If you will be fully free to make what you will, stay alone !

[BC]

All will be settled when the level of communication is greater than miscommunication.

[Shadow]

If it helps, for those who have been responsible for employing others, how would YOU deal with an employee who came to you telling you that he was being spied upon by a co-worker and who was bullying him in order to get his/her way?

Would you tell the employee to do nothing and ignore it, or to give in to the bullying?

--- Nope, I did not think so.

Nope. I would call the employee accused of bullying and get his story. Unfortunately, Clyde's wife is not likely going to post her side.
As such we have only very small one-sided pieces of a big story to go on.

[PeeWee]

Nope. I would call the employee accused of bullying and get his story. Unfortunately, Clyde's wife is not likely going to post her side.
As such we have only very small one-sided pieces of a big story to go on.

I, like Clyde, would appreciate having a sounding board to help better understand that is new or confusing for the moment. Perhaps Clyde's wife understands that the forum is a resource for Clyde to better understand how RW and all women think and react and she may not want him to have that much knowledge. Knowledge is power, as the say. It is the mushroom mentality, to some degree. Keem them in the dark and feed them lots of shit. Not to say this is her overt intention but women are women and if they hope to maintain some degree of control then it is better for her if her counterpart is left more clueless than she is.

peewee

[KenC]

Maybe Clyde needs to remind Mrs. Clyde that this forum is indeed a two way street.  He might remind her that many (me for sure) were all over Clyde's butt for not being prepared for her arrival for one example. I for one would like to think that we have helped Clyde to identify and step up to his responsibilities.  This is in no way a slam at him as he just didn't have the experience. To have the wealth of cumulative information and experience available here is an awesome resource.
KenC

[TheHorseman]

Now if a man did this to his wife he would be called controlling.  Actually many would call it abuse. 

Ok, again I am new to the forum and I haven't read back through all of it.  I did see this one point that caught my attention.  I was married for 17 yrs.  The control issue is what caused a lot of problems for me.  I was never really controlling, but that is what my ex tells everyone.  Actually control is an illussion.  You can't totally control anyone.  If they want to do something they will.

About Russian women I have learned that giving into them does make thing worse.  I have had a couple experiences where I bent over backwards for them and it didn't take them long to figure it out.  I have learned to be flexible, but I now stand my ground on certain issues.  I think the trick it it pick what you will bend on and what you won't.  Took me 4 yrs to stop trying to give them what they want and for me to start seeing what they were doing to me.

Russian women are used to boundries.  They are used to being told what they can do and what they can't.  Take away the boundries and all hell breaks loose.

Will

[andrewfi]

Shadow ~ Yes you would. Clyde has the benfefit of having some idea of both sides of the story. Thus my point makes sense and stands. What one would NOT do is nothing. That is the point.

We know that we do not have both sides of the story, but as in the situation with an employee, we know that Clyde has credibility. What he tells us is likely to be fairly close to a truth that both parties might agree upon, even whilst disagreeing about outcomes.

On that basis, one can therefore make some inferential judgements, after all, in life, we rarely have all the facts. Some people are good at drawing inferences that are applicable, some are not. Some of us have to p!ss on the fence, others do not. On that basis, if we assume that Clyde is telling the truth and that his cconcerns are valid (for him) we can discuss the situation and in that circumstance, I am sure that, in all honesty, your POV would not actually be very far from mine. ie. if one does not stand one's ground on certain issues then one will find it almost impossible to do so later.

[David1963]

  I have learned to be flexible, but I now stand my ground on certain issues.  I think the trick it it pick what you will bend on and what you won't. 

Russian women are used to boundries.  They are used to being told what they can do and what they can't.  Take away the boundries and all hell breaks loose.

Will

THis has been my experience and how it works between my wife and I and things seem to be fine for us.  I give in when I feel it's right and I hold my ground when I need to.

[PeeWee]

Ok, again I am new to the forum and I haven't read back through all of it.  I did see this one point that caught my attention.  I was married for 17 yrs.  The control issue is what caused a lot of problems for me.  I was never really controlling, but that is what my ex tells everyone.  Actually control is an illussion.  You can't totally control anyone.  If they want to do something they will.

About Russian women I have learned that giving into them does make thing worse.  I have had a couple experiences where I bent over backwards for them and it didn't take them long to figure it out.  I have learned to be flexible, but I now stand my ground on certain issues.  I think the trick it it pick what you will bend on and what you won't.  Took me 4 yrs to stop trying to give them what they want and for me to start seeing what they were doing to me.

Russian women are used to boundries.  They are used to being told what they can do and what they can't.  Take away the boundries and all hell breaks loose.

Will

I might agree with the bending or not. I had heard that FSU women like to have those guildlines. Most people need to know where the boundries are. Fences. Without them, like freerange cattle, women end up wandering all over the place. In the case of women that is not good. I had imagined that with the FSU women that they welcomed the man to take the leadership role. If he did not step up to the plate in that rregard then she would. If he did accept the role then there would be the constant testing, by her, of his fortitiude. Domintate or be conquered.

Peewee

[Sohkay]

PeeVee,
So much truth in your words.
Dominate or be conquered.

And consider this...the best leader, is the best servant.

Sohkay

[PeeWee]

PeeVee,
So much truth in your words.
Dominate or be conquered.

And consider this...the best leader, is the best servant.

Sohkay

Well, to be honest, I do believe that I borrowed the dominate or be conquered from the words of Arnold Schwatzenegger...from the movie Conan the Barbarian. He spoke to me on that day and I have lived with his mantra since. Also...I"'ll be back," was a great one too. My friend Lena, like all of our beloved RW, has the classics accent when she speaks English. That is until she begins to mimic Schwartezenegger. All of the accent disappears. I laugh my asz off.

Peevee

[PeeWee]

I spotted this on another thread. There can now be no doubt about it.

Peewee

[TheHorseman]

I think we could all learn something from Arnold.  He won me over when he married into the Kennedy family.  A Republican in the wood pile.  That has to chap Ted's ass.  He also said something about the "inundation of their women" in that movie.

[PeeWee]

I think we could all learn something from Arnold.  He won me over when he married into the Kennedy family.  A Republican in the wood pile.  That has to chap Ted's ass.  He also said something about the "inundation of their women" in that movie.

Yeah, it was classic. I wish I could find the exact line.

Peewee