My story of Russian women with pics

[mies]

I have talked to several people in Luhansk.  They report that things are relatively stable there now.  However, she tells a compelling story.  And one that should be heeded by the rest of Ukraine as the Separatist forces are attempting to enlarge their territory. 

Mods-this is significant enough that it should not be hidden in this thread.

The blogger lives in a smaller town in Luhansk region.

A friend of mine is from Luhansk, her 70yo mother was kept at gun-point (and we are talking here about AKs) by several militants, threatened to be killed for "not preventing pro-Ukrainian conversations in her office".
Of what I hear, things are fairly stable in the last 6 months or so, less robberies and abductions (= tortures, rapes, murders) of civilians, since Russia introduced more of its special military units to Luhansk and Donetsk. As Russian special forces moved in, they began the eradication of some local militant groups which showed too much independence from Russia or were difficult to control.

The blogger lives in a smaller town in Luhansk region.

P.S. I understand this topic is not very relevant to the thread in general. The reason why I decided to share the link is that it explains why I feel strongly about "fun tours" to Ukraine, especially now.

[mies]

By the way, at the time of Maidan, a number of people dressed up and marched around with Nazi uniforms on.  These were later discovered to be paid plants.  Typical Russian ploy - the one reason that the Russians used to invade Eastern Ukraine was the Nazification of Kyiv and the pictures on TV of these stooges walking around in Nazi outfits.

I am not aware of that fact, and I am not sure it actually ever happened.

What did happen: there is a controversial political figure in Ukrainian history: Stepan Bandera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera). 
Russia claims he was a Nazi and a fascist because he was developing Ukrainian national identity and was one of the key figures in the Ukrainian Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists). Russia also claims that he allied with Nazi Germany, and that Ukrainian Insurgent Army joined the Nazi SS units, and killed Polish people and that this was made by his orders.
As with any propaganda, some bits and pieces are correct: Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist. He participated in the assassination of the Polish Minister of Interior in 1934, because of the sharp anti-Ukrainian policy this minister was implementing. After the minister was killed, Bandera along with 11 more people he was arrested by Poles and spent 06/1934-09/1939 in Polish prison. He was supposed to be executed, but WWII started and he was let free. Bandera didn't ally with Germany. In 07/1941 he was arrested again, this time by Germans, for this declaration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Ukrainian_State_Act. He stayed first in German prison 07/1941-01/1942, and then in German concentration camp, in 01/1942-12/1944. Ukrainian Insurgent Army was created in 1942 when Bandera in a concentration camp. It is not very probable that he were able to actively lead both the OUN and UIA from the prison or from the camp.
Bandera lived in Germany until 1959, when he was assassinated by KGB agent. The murder was ordered by USSR's Nikita Khruschov.
During USSR time his name was banished, people from Western Ukraine were derogatorily called "banderivtsi" (i had that experience many times). 
After USSR collapsed and Ukraine became independent, his name was restored, and now he is a "national hero" who fought for liberation and independence of Ukraine from all invaders (he did not discriminate: Russia, Poland, Germany, any other invader was a bad invader to him). There are his monuments in the cities in Western Ukraine. People in Eastern Ukraine still feel touchy about him due to stronger influence of Moscow propaganda.

Now, why I am telling this long story:
When Russia talks about "Ukrainian fascists" - they do not talk about actual Nazis or fascists. They are talking about: either people from Western Ukraine, or people who believe that Bandera was a hero, or at least do not condemn him.

There were two events during Maidan times (winter of 2013-2014):

1) a demonstration with torches, on a birhday of Stepan Bandera on 01/01/2014:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Rp9rWzvdKw8

People are chanting: "glory to heroes", "glory to nation", "revolution".
The first two terms were official mottoes and official "code greetings" of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army:
"Glory to nation - Death to the enemies"
"Glory to Ukraine - Glory to heroes"

The black-and-red flags you see on this video is the flag of the OUN from 1930s. It is now adopted by the Ukrainian organization "Right Sector" (right like right hand, not "correct"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

So what you are saying as someone was dressed as Nazi, most likely was re-telling the story about people with red-and-black flags.
But those were not paid.

2) The people who were acting to ignite violence, and were later found to be plants (as far as I know, they were not paid, just stupid and used), were those boys in masks with bats and metal chains, on 12/01/2013:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=duyKEmU_U68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29Im-7fMvtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HzJsAzqs5xE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0g6dgD8_n7Q
Crowd is chanting to police: shame! prostitutes!  Someone says to masked youngsters: "do not throw anything (at riot police) you are provokers!"

(analysis of the events on that day: http://gazeta.dt.ua/internal/bankova-1-grudnya-hronika-provokaciyi-_.html)
which eventually ended in this when riot police started to push out the crowd:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8WSYl_g_3fE
(voice behind the camera, commenting on police beating the man on the ground: they will kill him)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=noB99MK_gGk

One of the people who organized this provocation was Korchynsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Korchynsky). Right after the attack, he fled to Russia. He later returned to Ukraine in a year or so. I have been following information about him on and off for many years because he is a mysterious figure. I think he has ties to Russia, despite the fact that he is positioning himself as an ultra-right Ukrainian nationalist.

There are more details about it, but will take too much time to explain, and too boring to read for a non-Ukrainian.


To sum up: there were no people in Nazi uniforms on Maidan. There were people from the Right Sector, with portraits of Bandera, and flags of the OUN. They were not paid. There were also planted provokers, affiliated with Korchynsky but they received orders from a policemen, and their "attacks on police" were coordinated with the riot police command. It was orchestrated. I doubt they were paid. They knew they were provoking, but they are young and stupid, and most likely they thought something good will come out of this.

[mies]

Mies, I could have used your support last week or so when I spoke badly about the Russian aggressors.  I was taken to task here by the lovers of this Russian aggression.

Maybe it's for the best, otherwise discussion could have gotten too heated. ))

[dragonkid]

DK

Keep it simple - you made a claim, kept moving the goalposts and STILL I found 422 places that proved you fibbed.

As my elder daughter lives in London - within 2.5miles from the City of London - you'll forgive me if I 'ave a 'larf at your expense..

422 not in enfield, i shared a link, like i said depends on street, type of house, room size. If £2.5k alarms you , then you really know nothing. 2.5miles from london, and you think you know something? you do know a 2.5mile radius ranges for flat prices for 3 bed from 300k to £20m. My point proven you know nothing, and why not disclose how much your daughter pays for a room? Just prove that prices in london are not as cheap as you make them out to be.


ANyways , interesting discussion about minimum income. £60k a year ($90k) is what is required to raise a family in london, who have better standards of living compared to upper middle class russian family. That was my point, of course you don't need $90k if you don't live in London, you can get away with much less. Depends on where you live.

[Anotherkiwi]

Although he may not have expressed his reasoning clearly enough for many posters who are knocking his numbers, jone is on the right track with his figure of $100,000 annual income.  To prevent any arguments I would add that this is BEFORE income tax.  When I first joined this forum, more than five years ago, the accepted figure seemed to be $75,000, so a one-third increase in this period is not unreasonable to me.

Just as one example, house prices in Auckland have more than doubled in that time, with the median sale price now over $800,000.  That will buy you a reasonably nice three-bedroom house in an average suburb.  There are now more than 20 suburbs here with a median price over $1 million.  Forget trying to equate that with US prices ($NZ1 = $US 0.70), because the salaries in NZ dollars are fairly similar to yours in US dollars.

While, again, many posters have spouted at length how you can comfortably live on a lot less, I think most are forgetting some important points:

1.  Unless you are very young (which means you shouldn't be doing this for starters), you must own your own home.  Having a mortgage is fine, but why should a woman come from the FSU, where she quite possibly already owns her own home, and find that she has dropped back to the bottom of the property ladder?  It also needs to be a home that your lady will be comfortable living in, so you will need to be very clear about what the home itself (whether a house or apartment), the neighbourhood and your town or city are like.  You can't just do this with photos - they won't tell her if the house is warm in winter, for example, or that there is a high school 50 metres down the road.

2.   Everybody who has posted on this subject in the past has reiterated that, other than having a mortgage (preferably one that doesn't cripple you financially) you CANNOT be in debt (credit cards, hire purchase, etc.) before you start, or you will never get off the debt escalator.

3.  You will need to have tens of thousands of dollars available (in savings of some description) BEFORE you start this journey.  You need to pay for a trip or trips to the FSU; you need to pay thousands more (including visa, travel and possibly shipping costs for her stuff) to get your lady (and possibly her child or children, if any) to your country; you need (probably) to buy her a car, and pay for driving lessons so that she can get a local licence; you may need to pay for English lessons if her language skills need upgrading; you WILL need to pay for her (and the children) to return home every year or two to see family and friends (preferably you will travel with her, thus adding to those costs).

To succeed in all of these, you will have to be on a very good income - it's that simple.  You have to assume (worst case scenario) that she will be unemployed for at least a couple of years after she arrives, no matter what her language and employment skills are like.

If you can't fulfil ALL of these criteria, stop now - or, if you're still determined to try for an FSU wife, look for someone who already permanently lives in your country.  There are many, many, MANY of them around the world - and quite possibly one or more already lives in your street.

[Anotherkiwi]

Big Bill, I made less than $12,000 last year of employment income.

That's because you're a retired billionaire property magnate. 

Haven't you heard of tectonic plates movement?

Actually I have homes in 3 states . . . but none are Colorado.

I rest my case. 

[ML]

That's because you're a retired billionaire property magnate. 

I am hardly retired . . . most could not keep up the pace that Ochka puts me through . . . and certainly not in The Donald's category.

We have worked in garden until dark each day this week.  This involves digging out tons of rock and replacing with topsoil, even before we can begin the normal gardening process.  Just tonight we finally finished planting the potatoes . . . about 150 potato 'eyes' planted.  This is all Ochka's idea.  For myself, I have found that grocery stores carry potatoes.

Just more of the misery we guys go through to 'trade-up.'

[2tallbill]

Big Bill, I made less than $12,000 last year of employment income.

I don't know the context of why you are telling me this. I of course hope for your
financial success and happiness. I hope I didn't say anything that would make you
think otherwise because that was never my intent.

[BillyB]

We have worked in garden until dark each day this week.  This involves digging out tons of rock and replacing with topsoil, even before we can begin the normal gardening process.  Just tonight we finally finished planting the potatoes . . . about 150 potato 'eyes' planted.

You poor man. You go to work 8 hours everyday for the benefit of your wife. Then you come home and got to work another 8 hours for her. When it's time for bed, she puts you to work for another 8 hours.

I have found that grocery stores carry potatoes.

You will appreciate the potatoes more if you grow them yourself and more importantly, save 31 cents per pound.

[fathertime]

1.  Unless you are very young (which means you shouldn't be doing this for starters), you must own your own home. 

What is considered very young from your viewpoint?  I'd consider very young 18-22 for males. 


Fathertime!   

[GuppyCaptain]

I live in a relatively cheap part of the country and would consider 75K annually to be the minimum salary to support an FSUW and her young child (if she has one) without her working. That's pretax and assumes a modest mortgage, modest cars, and public schooling. Fwiw.

[msmobyone]

422 not in enfield, i shared a link, like i said depends on street, type of house, room size. If £2.5k alarms you , then you really know nothing. 2.5miles from london, and you think you know something? you do know a 2.5mile radius ranges for flat prices for 3 bed from 300k to £20m. My point proven you know nothing, and why not disclose how much your daughter pays for a room? Just prove that prices in london are not as cheap as you make them out to be.

DK, this exercise simply proves you'll still argue black is white when demonstrably wrong.
To remind you once more - you made a claim and were busted, you revised it and still got busted, then you claimed Enfield was dangerous and got busted..


My daughter's house is OWNED.

ANyways , interesting discussion

actually, it was BORING..and I've indulged you enough.

[msmobyone]

Actually I have homes in 3 states . . . but none are Colorado.

May be you rent one, there..?

My bad..

[JayH]

Big Bill, I made less than $12,000 last year of employment income.

Maybe we should be looking in the next round of the "Panama Papers" to see how you are really doing?

[Maxx2]

Although he may not have expressed his reasoning clearly enough for many posters who are knocking his numbers, jone is on the right track with his figure of $100,000 annual income.  To prevent any arguments I would add that this is BEFORE income tax.  When I first joined this forum, more than five years ago, the accepted figure seemed to be $75,000, so a one-third increase in this period is not unreasonable to me.

Just as one example, house prices in Auckland have more than doubled in that time, with the median sale price now over $800,000.  That will buy you a reasonably nice three-bedroom house in an average suburb.  There are now more than 20 suburbs here with a median price over $1 million.  Forget trying to equate that with US prices ($NZ1 = $US 0.70), because the salaries in NZ dollars are fairly similar to yours in US dollars.

While, again, many posters have spouted at length how you can comfortably live on a lot less, I think most are forgetting some important points:

1.  Unless you are very young (which means you shouldn't be doing this for starters), you must own your own home.  Having a mortgage is fine, but why should a woman come from the FSU, where she quite possibly already owns her own home, and find that she has dropped back to the bottom of the property ladder?  It also needs to be a home that your lady will be comfortable living in, so you will need to be very clear about what the home itself (whether a house or apartment), the neighbourhood and your town or city are like.  You can't just do this with photos - they won't tell her if the house is warm in winter, for example, or that there is a high school 50 metres down the road.

2.   Everybody who has posted on this subject in the past has reiterated that, other than having a mortgage (preferably one that doesn't cripple you financially) you CANNOT be in debt (credit cards, hire purchase, etc.) before you start, or you will never get off the debt escalator.

3.  You will need to have tens of thousands of dollars available (in savings of some description) BEFORE you start this journey.  You need to pay for a trip or trips to the FSU; you need to pay thousands more (including visa, travel and possibly shipping costs for her stuff) to get your lady (and possibly her child or children, if any) to your country; you need (probably) to buy her a car, and pay for driving lessons so that she can get a local licence; you may need to pay for English lessons if her language skills need upgrading; you WILL need to pay for her (and the children) to return home every year or two to see family and friends (preferably you will travel with her, thus adding to those costs).

To succeed in all of these, you will have to be on a very good income - it's that simple.  You have to assume (worst case scenario) that she will be unemployed for at least a couple of years after she arrives, no matter what her language and employment skills are like.

If you can't fulfil ALL of these criteria, stop now - or, if you're still determined to try for an FSU wife, look for someone who already permanently lives in your country.  There are many, many, MANY of them around the world - and quite possibly one or more already lives in your street.

That is a very good post.

[dragonkid]

forget it

[Anotherkiwi]

What is considered very young from your viewpoint?  I'd consider very young 18-22 for males.

In the context of a search for an FSU bride, I would say anyone under 28.  Of course there are plenty in this age group who do actually own their own homes, but I wouldn't recommend that they head overseas when looking for a potential wife.  Any FSU female over the age of 12 (maybe 14?) would probably eat most of those guys for breakfast. 

[Anotherkiwi]

That is a very good post.

Thank you, Maxx.  It took me long enough to write! 

[Trenchcoat]

Although he may not have expressed his reasoning clearly enough for many posters who are knocking his numbers, jone is on the right track with his figure of $100,000 annual income.  To prevent any arguments I would add that this is BEFORE income tax.  When I first joined this forum, more than five years ago, the accepted figure seemed to be $75,000, so a one-third increase in this period is not unreasonable to me.

Just as one example, house prices in Auckland have more than doubled in that time, with the median sale price now over $800,000.  That will buy you a reasonably nice three-bedroom house in an average suburb.  There are now more than 20 suburbs here with a median price over $1 million.  Forget trying to equate that with US prices ($NZ1 = $US 0.70), because the salaries in NZ dollars are fairly similar to yours in US dollars.

While, again, many posters have spouted at length how you can comfortably live on a lot less, I think most are forgetting some important points:

1.  Unless you are very young (which means you shouldn't be doing this for starters), you must own your own home.  Having a mortgage is fine, but why should a woman come from the FSU, where she quite possibly already owns her own home, and find that she has dropped back to the bottom of the property ladder?  It also needs to be a home that your lady will be comfortable living in, so you will need to be very clear about what the home itself (whether a house or apartment), the neighbourhood and your town or city are like.  You can't just do this with photos - they won't tell her if the house is warm in winter, for example, or that there is a high school 50 metres down the road.

2.   Everybody who has posted on this subject in the past has reiterated that, other than having a mortgage (preferably one that doesn't cripple you financially) you CANNOT be in debt (credit cards, hire purchase, etc.) before you start, or you will never get off the debt escalator.

3.  You will need to have tens of thousands of dollars available (in savings of some description) BEFORE you start this journey.  You need to pay for a trip or trips to the FSU; you need to pay thousands more (including visa, travel and possibly shipping costs for her stuff) to get your lady (and possibly her child or children, if any) to your country; you need (probably) to buy her a car, and pay for driving lessons so that she can get a local licence; you may need to pay for English lessons if her language skills need upgrading; you WILL need to pay for her (and the children) to return home every year or two to see family and friends (preferably you will travel with her, thus adding to those costs).

To succeed in all of these, you will have to be on a very good income - it's that simple.  You have to assume (worst case scenario) that she will be unemployed for at least a couple of years after she arrives, no matter what her language and employment skills are like.

If you can't fulfil ALL of these criteria, stop now - or, if you're still determined to try for an FSU wife, look for someone who already permanently lives in your country.  There are many, many, MANY of them around the world - and quite possibly one or more already lives in your street.

Dependent on which country you live in, whereabouts in that country and also on the girl's situation you are dating I would say. The girl I met with came from not far from the war zone in Ukraine, probably quite a poor area, low paid job, doesn't drive. Hence, it would not be difficult to improve on this situation just by changing to a more prosperous country. The fact that she doesn't drive means less costs and in the UK this is less of a problem than in the US perhaps as facilities closer to hand, public transport less car orientated. Housing also can be obtained cheaply if buying in Wales or up north. London is ridiculously expensive, I think overpriced but the market demands a price and that's it, I remember back in the 90's recession when house prices in London were real low and no more than many other places in the UK. New Zealand may be different but in the UK benefits can still be obtained for private or state (council/housing association) renting, also benefits for having children, plus the NHS hospital and dentistry not to mention also publicly funded state Schools. Sure the government has nibbled back on benefits over the years but its still largely there if needed.

Hence a lot of the costs you would have to stump up for in the US are not there. Sure you should have a certain amount of money saved and earned but even a couple totally dependent on the state in the UK may be at a better standard of living than many Ukrainians. My main concern with someone going into this owning their own house (particularly if expensive) is that he makes himself a plump target for a FSW to come along marry him for a bit then walk of with half his house - for what? Some guys in the UK with their own house that I know avoid getting with UK women as they are afraid they will do just that - and their fears are somewhat justified. The guy being left in squalid conditions after being ripped of for his wealth in a FSU venture is not a great place to be. Personally, I think though guys will start going to FSU for women younger and younger because many UK women aren't worth bothering with, they care too much about their careers, themselves, ripping guys off/what they can get or are fat and unattractive. 

[dragonkid]

Dependent on which country you live in, whereabouts in that country and also on the girl's situation you are dating I would say. The girl I met with came from not far from the war zone in Ukraine, probably quite a poor area, low paid job, doesn't drive. Hence, it would not be difficult to improve on this situation just by changing to a more prosperous country. The fact that she doesn't drive means less costs and in the UK this is less of a problem than in the US perhaps as facilities closer to hand, public transport less car orientated. Housing also can be obtained cheaply if buying in Wales or up north. London is ridiculously expensive, I think overpriced but the market demands a price and that's it, I remember back in the 90's recession when house prices in London were real low and no more than many other places in the UK. New Zealand may be different but in the UK benefits can still be obtained for private or state (council/housing association) renting, also benefits for having children, plus the NHS hospital and dentistry not to mention also publicly funded state Schools. Sure the government has nibbled back on benefits over the years but its still largely there if needed.

Hence a lot of the costs you would have to stump up for in the US are not there. Sure you should have a certain amount of money saved and earned but even a couple totally dependent on the state in the UK may be at a better standard of living than many Ukrainians. My main concern with someone going into this owning their own house (particularly if expensive) is that he makes himself a plump target for a FSW to come along marry him for a bit then walk of with half his house - for what? Some guys in the UK with their own house that I know avoid getting with UK women as they are afraid they will do just that - and their fears are somewhat justified. The guy being left in squalid conditions after being ripped of for his wealth in a FSU venture is not a great place to be. Personally, I think though guys will start going to FSU for women younger and younger because many UK women aren't worth bothering with, they care too much about their careers, themselves, ripping guys off/what they can get or are fat and unattractive.

Depends on the girl, the one you have sounds like she will be happy if you provide an AVERAGE lifestyle in UK. Hence the average, not sure why you are talking about benefits. Anyways, looks is a large factor as well, something which guys on here don't emphasize,i wonder why 

From reading your posts, it sounds like she is not a high maintenance girl, you will be fine, but really you need to describe your lifestyle in UK to her as clearly as possible. If you can't afford a kid, tell her the two of you will need to wait, and maybe once you get promoted, or she starts working, then you two can start a family. Trust me, you need to be open about your finances, some FSU women are delusional.

[ML]

I don't know the context of why you are telling me this. I of course hope for your
financial success and happiness. I hope I didn't say anything that would make you
think otherwise because that was never my intent.

I was posting in response to your statement that $100,000 per year earnings might be needed.

[jone]

I was posting in response to your statement that $100,000 per year earnings might be needed.

ML cries all the way to the bank.

[fathertime]

In the context of a search for an FSU bride, I would say anyone under 28.  Of course there are plenty in this age group who do actually own their own homes, but I wouldn't recommend that they head overseas when looking for a potential wife.  Any FSU female over the age of 12 (maybe 14?) would probably eat most of those guys for breakfast. 

Putting aside the homeowner part which I don't think is a requirement.  I don't see why a man shouldn't go to pretty much any country looking for marriage minded ladies, after he feels he has sewn enough of his wild oats.  I've met some 50 year old nimrods, and some very sharp 25 year olds, so I really don't think an artificial age requirement is necessary. Some men are mentally ready pretty early on, others will never be ready.  Individual differences count for a lot!


Fathertime!   

[Muzh]

I live in a relatively cheap part of the country and would consider 75K annually to be the minimum salary to support an FSUW and her young child (if she has one) without her working. That's pretax and assumes a modest mortgage, modest cars, and public schooling. Fwiw.

 

[mies]

"I don't believe in marriage"