Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[treadmilldude]

Trenchcoat, just so you will know, there are many guys, myself included, who do NOT, NOT like the WOVO approach and would never use the WOVO approach. As you said, huge risk to you the Man that (1) girl might not ever show.

And just as I say that, even though I have always criticized the WOVO and always said I would never do it....I am communicating with Olya right now about when I will fly to Belarus to visit her and ONLY her.....ie a WOVO trip!! BWAHAHAHA!!! I am such a hypocrite!! 

Looks like it is going to be in late July. She is so excited she told me she almost wet her pants. I am serious, she actually said that to me! 

[msmobyone]

Cracks me up to read guys who've never been to the FSU ..speak of no show dates as a 'reason' to go scatter gun WMVM or even 'write/visit few'.... I've never had it happen...they knew I was only coming to see them and they appreciated that...

OK ..I was flying from Cyprus...less than 2 hours from Odessa, 3 from Kyiv / s.Russia  - may be even the same time zone..but I got on those planes-knowing I wasn't going to be stood up,..

Why ? Bearing in mind Skype was still not widely used and the internet might have been too slow to video chat... I didn't go visit a lady I didn't feel I didn't know...and if I didn't feel a 'connection' / spark..

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat, just so you will know, there are many guys, myself included, who do NOT, NOT like the WOVO approach and would never use the WOVO approach. As you said, huge risk to you the Man that (1) girl might not ever show.

And just as I say that, even though I have always criticized the WOVO and always said I would never do it....I am communicating with Olya right now about when I will fly to Belarus to visit her and ONLY her.....ie a WOVO trip!! BWAHAHAHA!!! I am such a hypocrite!! 

Looks like it is going to be in late July. She is so excited she told me she almost wet her pants. I am serious, she actually said that to me! 

Yeah, its funny isn't it, its kind of how it happen to me. Just seem to click with a girl and then there seems enough commitment on both sides to meet up. Hence why I say on the face of it it seems risky, lunacy even, but perhaps behind the nonsensical outlook there is indeed logic. I think FSU are probably fairly reliable, a lot more than UK/US, I think the no show is just anxiety that tends to happen once embarking on the trip, I've heard the odd guy gets it on here but perhaps girl either got nervous or guy was pushing and girl wasn't interested that much. Still hope it goes well for you.

[2tallbill]

Counter opinion...MEGA DAFT IDEA ...  If you are on a VO trip and you've done your 'due diligence' and checked each other out on - say - SKYPE video chats - having back up plans is just STUPID ....

I know Beel met AE like that ...but she is one in a million ... most FSU don't take kindly to being 'back up plans'... would you ?

You're likely to be far more successful  - if you're confident in yourself and her... without 'complications' ...

Beel - love ya lots 

Ok,

I will explain my theory again, not to convince you but to make sure you understand
my theory.

I've gone visit one several times. Including the trip to Odessa, St Pete, Lugansk,
Dnepropetrovsk, Tblisi and Voronezh. My visit many trips were to Kiev.

On my visit one trips to St Pete, Tblisi and Voronezh things didn't work out with the
girl. Soooooooo................... I asked other girls out.

How can the girl be my back up plan in her mind? I never seen or heard of her until
I asked her out. She is now my new number one plan. I ask her to meet for tea and
see if we have mutual chemistry. If we don't, she's out and I move on to a new number
one plan.

If we have mutual chemistry, I stop dating and pursue her exclusively until I gotta go.
No girl is a number two girl. I advocate never recycling girls, nobody wants to be a
number two girl and everyone should only pursue number ONE girls.

That's my theory. That's my backup plan, I'm not going to switch teams and march in
the gay pride parade when things don't work out. If you go visit one, and find she isn't
the one, there is no reason not to see if some other girl might be the one.

Just my two kopecks, not an argument just an explanation.

Udachi!

Bill

[GuppyCaptain]

Absolutely agree with that line of thinking ^^^^^

[msmobyone]

Ok,

I will explain my theory again, not to convince you but to make sure you understand
my theory.

Hi Beel,

naturally, if it might not work out - I'm not saying one should sit in the hotel / apt. and feel sorry for one's self.

I just wouldn't have plan B ladies - who'd know that was exactly what they were..

As you have AE as your wonderful 'case in point' I'll use my former - Russian wife - as mine..

Many guys wanted to meet..She lived in Siberia and the standard suggestion was, '' come to Moscow' - where I'll be for 10 days.. I'll be free for 2 of those days..''


Firstly, Moscow is 4 time zones to the west and - naturally - she didn't need to strain her brain to figure out what 'busy' meant the other 8 days..

I gave her an exclusive 5 days and so was the first western guy she  agreed to meet. Her words were, ''Why do men expect me to be part of a harem ?''

I did a VF trip to Kyiv in 2004.... BOTH ladies told me that they agreed to meet me as I was only meeting them ... I felt like a Cad and balancing dates was an art form in risk management - they were both super company and we keep in contact to this day.  Not a method I enjoyed and I maintain you'll get to know each other - better - if dedicating time to each other, exclusively.

I made a VO trip to a Russian city - to meet a lovely lady - that WAS a 'disaster'  - in that in letters we could communicate - but in reality - without a translator - which we both hated - we just couldn't communicate ... I resolved to learn Russian - properly  - as relying on friends and translators was not my idea of romance.

Again I have always maintained contact with this lady - and perhaps - I should have gone back - as I became proficient enough to communicate - she was receptive - but then her Ma - then Pa fell ill and we never saw a chance for us to live abroad - while her parents were alive. 

Just my two kopecks, not an argument just an explanation.

Udachi!

Bill

Beel, it is impossible to argue with you 

As we have so often concluded - we'll never agree what's 'best' - as it's what's best for you - one's circumstances... I had the advantage of proximity ... but apart from the time zone issue - getting to / from Siberia -s probably same as a one-stop trip from N.America.

My best regards to you and your family

[dragonkid]

Most women are understanding, they asked me if i was talking to others, and i always said of course, but explained that the rest were backups, and chatted to 4 women in total (in reality it was much higher). Women love to have something they can't have, making yourself isolated will just bring down your value. WOmen told me how jealous they were of the others.It will also make yourself desperate, don't go back to the site you met her on, if she catches you, you will be dead. Join mamba and talk to ALL attractive women, the more you want something, harder it is to obtain. Women can smell desperation, and it is unattractive. Us guys don't really understand this, we think showing a girl that she is the one early on will make her crave us even more,it is the exact opposite.

[msmobyone]

Most women are understanding..

Thanks for the 'lesson', DK - we never stop learning or making mistakes - but you're A LOT to learn about FSUW.. 

You remind me or an over-confident  chap who was writing to to Russian speaking ladies - who lived in Cyprus - He was treating them in much the same way you suggest...

He announced a different date he'd be arriving at the airport - but never thought the ladies would know each other and exchange their dating news.

The ladies' plan was to meet the guy together at the airport and watch his reaction ... luckily, for him ..I persuaded them to tell him his plan was busted and he cancelled his trip 

[Trenchcoat]

Most women are understanding, they asked me if i was talking to others, and i always said of course, but explained that the rest were backups, and chatted to 4 women in total (in reality it was much higher). Women love to have something they can't have, making yourself isolated will just bring down your value. WOmen told me how jealous they were of the others.It will also make yourself desperate, don't go back to the site you met her on, if she catches you, you will be dead. Join mamba and talk to ALL attractive women, the more you want something, harder it is to obtain. Women can smell desperation, and it is unattractive. Us guys don't really understand this, we think showing a girl that she is the one early on will make her crave us even more,it is the exact opposite.

Think this has been my problem with UK women, quite a lot of the time I get the attentions from some real hottie but I tend to focus too much on her and hence the game ends up all in her hands. This means of course that real hot girls often have the attention of many men and often I lose out  While all women are women I hear FSU women can be a little different in some ways as msmobyone allures too. That said, while she may have appreciated it I think you could be right dragonkid in that I may have shown her my cards to early. I'll bear in mind your point I think it is a good one but will wait a little while longer to see if she comes along at all, if not she may need some prompting in the appearance off other women on the scene 

[msmobyone]

I hear FSU women can be a little different in some ways as msmobyone allures too.

To be clear ..I was alluding to 'jealously, competitiveness' over a guy.

[dragonkid]

To be clear ..I was alluding to 'jealously, competitiveness' over a guy.

Just do it in a way that makes yourself seem like you have a lot of value, but chose her out of everyone, yet you still have those bridges to go back on if she doesn't meet your expectations.

[msmobyone]

Just do it in a way that makes yourself seem like you have a lot of value, but chose her out of everyone, yet you still have those bridges to go back on if she doesn't meet your expectations.

DK, do you think FSUW have no experience of men ?  It seems so..

[ML]

You are all wrong.

[msmobyone]

You are all wrong.

 said the resident expert in driving off women from the 'wrong country'..

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat, you're making all kinds of speculations on to why she may not be affectionate with you. You say she's a sweet girl but you really don't understand her. She told you the reason she's not affectionate with you and it's because she needs more time. There's nothing more to it unless she's lying. Go ahead and discuss health with her before your next visit. Go to a doctor and get your blood checked out to show her the results you're disease free. There should be no more excuses to why she can't kiss you the next time you show up. Me and a bunch of guys here can testify it shouldn't be this hard to get a kiss from a girl.

That is true, I think as you say she has told be the reason in needing more time - I think she's pretty genuine and not lying. However, how much time is beginning to disturb me, she has sine coming back sent me several letters back but despite a bit off myself trying to move it up slightly we still keep talking about everyday stuff. I'm beginning to think I might be dating a nun, lol. I will try and press a little more though I don't wish to go too far as I've met her and feel for her so its not a relationship/memory I would want to see go south. I genuinely like her its just a pain that things aren't picking up a bit more and a second meeting without it doing so would cause some anxiety on my part.

[jone]

TC,

Who is to say you aren't dating a Nun.  At least in her mind, being chaste may be something that is really important to her.  Some women just believe that they are saving themselves for their husband.  It is not unheard of.  The problem that I would personally have in such a relationship is that the woman may not know a damn thing and have ongoing lovemaking issues even after the relationship is consumated.

One of the great attributes of dating an Eastern European woman is that once she declares herself for you, she typically does not play games with sex.  It is one of the reasons we go there.

[Trenchcoat]

TC,

Who is to say you aren't dating a Nun.  At least in her mind, being chaste may be something that is really important to her.  Some women just believe that they are saving themselves for their husband.  It is not unheard of.  The problem that I would personally have in such a relationship is that the woman may not know a damn thing and have ongoing lovemaking issues even after the relationship is consumated.

One of the great attributes of dating an Eastern European woman is that once she declares herself for you, she typically does not play games with sex.  It is one of the reasons we go there.

Thanks Jone, yeah being chaste may well be a thing with her, so weird it kind of feels like dating for early teens  like I'm dating a 14 yr old - I'm not obviously and wouldn't do. Like there's been no mouth to mouth kissing, even a light one, no holding hands/arms, no putting arm around her, except for odd photo and she didn't really touch me much when doing so. Only a kiss on the cheek/hug when first meeting/leaving & exchanging gifts. Yet she keeps messaging me since we got back so shows she's interested/keen & she seems to like it when I said I liked her, which I do when on holiday. So I get the impression she's into me in that extent, she made a long journey to see me after all. I just find it bizarre in UK (& no doubt US also) if a girl is around 30 or so, 1) most or at least a lot have done it 2) if she hasn't she know that its on the cards if with a guy so is open to it - that's the way I see it anyway.

Now I know some girls don't want to jump straight into bed with a guy on first visit and I understand that, but the lack of physical interaction seems a bit harsh if see is into me - I mean that chaste? I know stuff can lead on but even so. Naturally I have not asked if she is a virgin yet (doing so diplomatically of course) as I have the fear/prediction of a chaste response. To a point I don't mind waiting, even after marriage if needs be though it would be a concern for me, but having no physical interaction in any future meeting worries me. For me its a woman showing she's into me rather than only ever just being a friend she likes. I guess I am going to have to inquire further tactfully though I guess.

[jone]

Surely, into her 30s, she has had men friends (boyfriends).  Is there a discreet way to ask her to comment on her relationships with men she has dated?  At least this way you can figure out if she's somewhat of a Kate.  Just remember, Petruchio wins in the end.  You can too.

[ML]

Surely, into her 30s, she has had men friends (boyfriends).  Is there a discreet way to ask her to comment on her relationships with men she has dated?  At least this way you can figure out if she's somewhat of a Kate.  Just remember, Petruchio wins in the end.  You can too.

A really subtle way of doing this is to ask her what her 5 favorite positions are.

[ML]

TC,
At least in her mind, being chaste may be something that is really important to her.  Some women just believe that they are saving themselves for their husband. 

Sex is a dirty, filthy thing . . . and should be saved for the person you love and marry.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks Jone, yeah being chaste may well be a thing with her, so weird it kind of feels like dating for early teens  like I'm dating a 14 yr old - I'm not obviously and wouldn't do. Like there's been no mouth to mouth kissing, even a light one, no holding hands/arms, no putting arm around her, except for odd photo and she didn't really touch me much when doing so. Only a kiss on the cheek/hug when first meeting/leaving & exchanging gifts. Yet she keeps messaging me since we got back so shows she's interested/keen & she seems to like it when I said I liked her, which I do when on holiday. So I get the impression she's into me in that extent, she made a long journey to see me after all. I just find it bizarre in UK (& no doubt US also) if a girl is around 30 or so, 1) most or at least a lot have done it 2) if she hasn't she know that its on the cards if with a guy so is open to it - that's the way I see it anyway.

Now I know some girls don't want to jump straight into bed with a guy on first visit and I understand that, but the lack of physical interaction seems a bit harsh if see is into me - I mean that chaste? I know stuff can lead on but even so. Naturally I have not asked if she is a virgin yet (doing so diplomatically of course) as I have the fear/prediction of a chaste response. To a point I don't mind waiting, even after marriage if needs be though it would be a concern for me, but having no physical interaction in any future meeting worries me. For me its a woman showing she's into me rather than only ever just being a friend she likes. I guess I am going to have to inquire further tactfully though I guess.

You need to have an honest talk with her. You can pose questions on the boards and get feed back until the cows come home and still not find any relief to your situation. Explain to her that you are a physical, touchy/feely personality and you do expect some intimacy and physical interaction on her part.

There could be a number of reasons why she isn't intimate with you. The most glaring is, she isn't attracted or "into" you. It could be something else as simple as she is reading you wrong. She might be frigid and need more help interacting with you. The point here is, you need to talk with her and have this honest conversation to discover what is the crux of the problem. It is a problem

[Gator]

You need to have an honest talk with her.

Exactly.  In other words, ask her now and be direct.

I liked one UW.  We dated three times.  She even took me to her apartment, a luxury unit (her ex-husband was very successful).  We went through the motion of serious kissing, yet there was no passion (my part too), no urge to take the next step.  I asked her why in direct terms.   She replied, "I don't know if you are coming back."  I was leaving the next day, and her response was a Family Feud "Good Answer!" 

I saw her again a few months later,  and she showed a passionate and enthusiastic side, borderline wild, doing anything and everything to please me and herself.  And getting to that stage made us closer in other aspects.  However, it was not meant to be. 

So Trenchcoat,  ask your little frigid woman the direct question now.  Do not  remain confused and bewildered.  If she evades the question, ask it again.  And again.     If not a good answer, it is time to move on to the next woman.  Don't grasp at the hope that she secretly likes you.  Let us assume she dies like you - do you want to live with a reticent iceberg?   The Russian word is "Paka."

[BillyB]

You need to have an honest talk with her.  Explain to her that you are a physical, touchy/feely personality and you do expect some intimacy and physical interaction on her part.

Trenchcoat did have a talk that with her during his first visit and her answer was she needed more time. Another question like that will give her the impression he has comprehension problems. Some of us recommended Trenchcoat to say goodbye after the first visit but he made the decision to visit her a second time. She will get the time she asks for so we'll learn if she opens up to him on her own free will without the pressure of knowing she'll upset Trenchcoat if she doesn't perform. If she won't kiss Trenchcoat on the second visit, he should figure she will always be cold to his romantic overtures.

[treadmilldude]

ML, your posts are always so serious, so matter-of-fact. Never any humor in any of your posts. Lighten up big guy, thrown in a little bit of humor every once-in-a-while in your posts. Thank you.

I do agree with you ML, sex is disgusting. Filthy. I tried it one time and one time only. I hated it, never ever again for me, especially no sex for me once I get married. Which is not a big deal, because I have been told by several long-time members here on RWD that FSU women hate sex anyways and never ever want any. 

[dragonkid]

Trench: Why don't you want to be physical with me?
Girl: I have no idea, lets f*ck!

Best case scenario, she said she needs time. Just be a man, don't ask her why, you will come off desperate. Just go to somewhere private and try again, try touching her fingers first, move onto her hand, stroke her arm, slow steps.