Update. Not Good.

[mies]

All communication should occur only through your respective attorneys.  She has moved out and taken all of her possessions, so there is no need to communicate with her. 

You were married a very short time, and if you were in Florida she would receive little.  However, this does not stop her attorney from "working" the case.  Her attorney easily could conduct unnecessary legal work under the pretense he is protecting the woman, and meanwhile creating a large legal bill, which the court will order you to pay because she has no income.  Some attorneys endeavor to create all-out warfare, while others seek a collaborative closure. Your attorney should be able to tell you the typical approach used by her attorney.

Exactly. And this is the biggest problem. The wife is terrified, alone, and trusts her attorney because she is afraid of deportation and the attorney promised her to solve all her problems.

[mies]

To me age gap has nothing to do with how successful a marriage will be. It all boils down to how well you actually know your spouse before marriage......

oh, but it does.
otherwise, why don't we see any 50yo WM marrying 80-85yo babushkas from FSU?

[treadmilldude]

Slumba, I am sorry, but I do not agree with you that a 30-35 year age gap is not an incredibly awful decision for a man to make. Ummmmm, what does a 70 year-old man have in common with a 35 year-old woman.....absolutely nothing. A 70 year-old man that dies when he is 85...will die when his wife is still a very youthful 50, and leave her a widow for 35-40 years...yeah, leaving your Wife a widow for the final 40 years of her life, that is so sweet, such a kind thing to do. 

[treadmilldude]

To me age gap has nothing to do with how successful a marriage will be. It all boils down to how well you actually know your spouse before marriage......

I'm going to pretend this comment was tongue-in-cheek. This could not possibly be a seriously held belief.

[mies]

I'm going to pretend this comment was tongue-in-cheek. This could not possibly be a seriously held belief.

I think the first sentence was serious. Second one: "It all boils down to how well you actually know your spouse before marriage......", must have been a tongue-in-a-cheek. Since we are talking about men who meet and marry women from the country half-the-globe-and-ocean away, after hardly having a month (total) of face-to-face interactions.

[Gator]

With all that can go wrong in a marriage to a FSU Woman (really, for that matter, with all that can go wrong in a marriage to any woman), and the financial horrors a man can be sentenced to during the divorce....it makes me stop and scratch my head in complete amazement over the men here on RWD who have married FSU women with an age gap of 30-35 years.

Again, you hijack a thread, particularly considering Lonedrake and his wife did not have an age gap.  There are many archived threads addressing age gaps.  Please search the archives rather than hijacking a thread about an entirely different subject.

[treadmilldude]

Actually, Gator, you are right. But, I did not intentionally hijack lonedrake's thread. I was just scattershooting, random thoughts entered into my head when I was worrying about all that can go wrong for me in the future, along the lines of all that went wrong for lonedrake, who I am sure is just as good of a man as I am. And what steps I can take to potentially minimize my chances of failure and maximize my chances of success. If the mods want to delete my posts and everyone else's subsequent posts related to my posts, please do. Never my intention to disrespect a man, lonedrake, who is going through some rough times right now. Mods, feel free to delete my and others' posts. I cannot delete my own posts because others, unfortunately, have already quoted my posts.

[mies]

after living in this country for a while, I start thinking that this is probably a cultural trait: individualism and a habit to only think about yourself and your own interest, while avoiding responsibility for the life of others around you. This is quite different attitude than in FSU. As a result people in USA are more successful individually, and independent, but the trust is often lacking in relationship, and the social capital is eroding.

Many (most?) AMs who decide to divorce their FSU wives are behaving in a same way as typical Americans deal with unwanted pets: dump them in the shelter (not caring that a pet will be euthanized), or posting an ad on CL: "little Sissy has until tomorrow 6pm, then I am taking her to the shelter. Take her off my hands immediately if you don't want her to die. She is playful and friendly but I don't have time for her because of my working hours."

There is an adult man. He knows that his wife is a foreigner. He knows that his wife wants to stay in USA. He knows that his wife hasn't even finished her school (but will finish soon), does not have permanent resident card, and does not have her own source of income. He brought this woman to USA. The marriage has problems, so her decides "too many problems, i'm done." And then he says "I suppose she wants to stay in USA and I believe she will be able to file immigration documents on her own." Any normal person would discuss these issues with their spouse BEFORE starting a divorce proceedings. In great detail. Ideally - go together to the immigration lawyer, and ask the lawyer to outline for them the best course of actions, make sure that wife understands that she will be OK, nothing bad will happen to her.
Instead this man basically kicks out his wife without documents and without income on the streets (ok, he didn't do it, he told her that she can live in the house until the divorce is over), and suddenly on hop of her own psychological problems, she has to solve few more, immediately:
- stable income
- legal status in USA
- place to live
- adjusting to the life in a foreign country alone.
After doing this, the man is surprised by the fact that his wife starts fighting for her life.

it's like you take a puppy on the boat, paddle to the center of the lake, and then dump the puppy in the water saying "I suppose puppies can swim and this one will figure out what to do. not my problem, its whining was annoying, i'm tired listening it."

I feel sympathetic, but really, what were you thinking while putting your wife in such a tight corner? What were you expecting to happen? and now you are surprised that things don't go as smoothly?  (facepalm)

[Slumba]

Slumba, I am sorry, but I do not agree with you that a 30-35 year age gap is not an incredibly awful decision for a man to make. Ummmmm, what does a 70 year-old man have in common with a 35 year-old woman.....absolutely nothing. A 70 year-old man that dies when he is 85...will die when his wife is still a very youthful 50, and leave her a widow for 35-40 years...yeah, leaving your Wife a widow for the final 40 years of her life, that is so sweet, such a kind thing to do. 

OK. You are a genius and I am an idiot.  You win 1 Internet point!

Congratulations.

[Hammer2722]

oh, but it does.
otherwise, why don't we see any 50yo WM marrying 80-85yo babushkas from FSU?

No, it does not. There are plenty of successful marriages. Now, the chances of success are less likely I'll admit but not the cause. I believe that most men who come here and write that their marriage to a FSU woman is ending did not really take the time to really get to know their lady be fore marriage. I also believe that if she does not know any English, that will also contribute to many communication problems in the marriage.

I have lived with my Belarus girlfriend for 3 years now. She has been in the US 7 years now and speaks very good English. To this day, we still have some miscommunications between that will sometimes cause arguments. We have been fortunate enough to talk through them.

Not sure what LD's wife's level of English is but if I remember correctly, They had met each other only a few times and several of those times, they met in a foreign country. I believe that they may have not truly known each other well enough before marriage.

[mies]

No, it does not. There are plenty of successful marriages. Now, the chances of success are less likely I'll admit but not the cause. I believe that most men who come here and write that their marriage to a FSU woman is ending did not really take the time to really get to know their lady be fore marriage. I also believe that if she does not know any English, that will also contribute to many communication problems in the marriage.

I have lived with my Belarus girlfriend for 3 years now. She has been in the US 7 years now and speaks very good English. To this day, we still have some miscommunications between that will sometimes cause arguments. We have been fortunate enough to talk through them.

Not sure what LD's wife's level of English is but if I remember correctly, They had met each other only a few times and several of those times, they met in a foreign country. I believe that they may have not truly known each other well enough before marriage.

No, it does. you are missing the key feature in the marriages with large age gap. Marry a woman 30 years your senior, and you can be certain she will never divorce you, or file DV charges against you.

[Gator]

...I did not intentionally hijack lonedrake's thread. I was just scattershooting, random thoughts entered into my head when I was worrying about all that can go wrong for me in the future...

Treadmill, I do not believe FSUW are for you.   I say this because you are risk averse,  too reactive and are unable to connect the dots.  For example, why would you think a FSUW would remain without a man for 35 years if her husband were to predecease her?  Why would you think she could not take care of herself?   


Treadmill, listen to mies :

I think the first sentence was serious. Second one: "It all boils down to how well you actually know your spouse before marriage......", must have been a tongue-in-a-cheek. Since we are talking about men who meet and marry women from the country half-the-globe-and-ocean away, after hardly having a month (total) of face-to-face interactions.

There is no guarantee of success in a marriage between two American people of the same age.  Marrying a stranger and bringing her to a strange land is full of risk. 

Treadmill, three questions:

     1.  Do you recognize that a FSUW wife has a much higher risk of failure than an AW? 

     2.  Are you willing to accept the possible negative consequences of divorce without regret?

     3.  If you were to divorce, would you be thankful for the time you had together with her and be able to move on in life, landing on both feet?

[BillyB]

I agree with everything BUT the counselor.
In this case she is seeing the counselor unofficially, via Skype, the counselor is in Ukraine, she probably sends him payments via Moneygram or WU, the reason of payment is not indicated, and the counselor does not show them on his/her income statements. There is no formal contract between them, no formal signed agreements. At the most they probably have an e-mail communication. It is unclear whether counselor is making any notes. We can be certain that the counselor will not come to US to testify in any court. We can be almost sure that the counselor will not be able to provide a transcript of their sessions translated to English. As such, her "counseling" does not exist from the POV of the American legal system.

I don't know how a judge will look at Lonedrake's wife counseling. I'm going to assume her lawyer is going to play this in court and of course Lonedrake wiil be the reason for her needing counseling. If both Lonedrake and his wife agree the counseling was necessary, the judge may see counseling as a necessary step for the wife's mental health. Whether or not the judge sends her to an American counselor instead, you can be sure he tells Lonedrake to pay for it. Although the marriage is going down, they are still legally married and it's "their" money, not Lonedrake's so the wife is entitled to use "their" money for her needs. Although they are separated now and she's declared war, he's the only party bringing in money and he will be the party paying for all expenses during the divorce. If he doesn't have a significant amount of money in the bank, he needs to start looking into borrowing money off his assets. Lonedrake may not like what is going to happen, but he should feel comfort knowing there will be an end to this.

Yesterday she sent me a text saying we have court. She also sent a picture of a order of protection.

 Then I made the mistake of telling her someone was coming over to give her papers. She then just took off. Apparently she went to the police claiming I had someone coming over to kill her.

She also took all of her belongings from the house yesterday. She wanted me to be there, but also a one hour notice. She had a police escort. 

 My lawyer advised me to have zero contact with her. Which is fine by me. What don't understand is why law enforcement has not contacted me.

I will repeat the advice of others and your attorney. Do not have any contact with your wife. Do not even respond to texts. Do not respond to any threats or bad attitude she sends your way. No matter if she wants to show copies of protection orders, do not respond. Zero means zero. Let her be the one that looks like the harasser. Most people think domestic violence only pertains to physical harm. What most people don't know is that if a woman fears a man or harass her verbally, she can file DV on him and obtain a protection order. If that happens, that record will carry with him for life. In the link below is an example of the definition of DV that are similar to what most districts in America have adopted. If she gets a protection order against you, you'll have to give up your firearms and pay for any medical or counseling expenses she needs. When it comes to your word or hers, the judge most likely will err on the side of caution. Lonedrake, I hope you've never sent her any aggressive/angry texts that can be used against you in court.

Although ML corrected me earlier in saying your wife can AoS without your help, she may apparently think that DV is the only way to legally staying in America like most of us did. Your wife must be talking to somebody to get her information. Ask your attorney if offering help so your wife can legally stay here is a bargaining chip to settling this without court. Your wife still needs your signature to verify the marriage was authentic. Without your signature, DV is the other path. If you can't settle and go to court, get a jury. They will be educated on state guidelines and most likely will follow the guidelines when determining who gets what. Judges have lots of discretion, are more likely to go out of bounds from guidelines and may hang you in the end.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/domestic-violence/indiana-domestic-violence-laws-charges-penalti

[Gator]

after living in this country for a while, I start thinking that this is probably a cultural trait: individualism and a habit to only think about yourself and your own interest, while avoiding responsibility for the life of others around you. This is quite different attitude than in FSU.

Mies, have you been in the US so long that you have forgotten the frequent case of FSUM abandoning his wife and child? 

 

Many (most?) AMs who decide to divorce their FSU wives are behaving in a same way as typical Americans deal with unwanted pets

This is not Lonedrake's situation.  Reading between the lines he wanted to build a life with her, and het tried, yet something on her end prevented it.  Also, he has shown no bitterness as frequently displayed by the divorcing men.  Also, we do not know all the details, and need not know them. 

I have met a few divorced FSUW here in the US (friends of my wife).  Some men are as bad as your description of dumping an unwanted pet.  However, I feel this is not Lonedrake. 

In any event, she can still obtain her citizenship without any support from Lonedrake.  Also, she is still a spouse and has certain legal rights.   The legal process will sort this out. 

[treadmilldude]

Gator, you just explained to me that I hijacked this thread. I agree with you, I did (unknowingly and unintentionally). Now, you want me to hijack the thread even further by replying to your posts that were in response to my "Hijack" post. Um no thanks. No more posts from me in this thread. Best to be respectful to Lonedrake in his difficult times and try to learn something from his divorce.

[mies]

Lonedrake, I think I remember your photos when you were just planning to get married. If I do not confuse you with anybody, the two of you looked like a beautiful and well-matched couple.

Is there an option for divorce mediation? Relate somehow to your wife, that you want to try this option. Maybe her Russian/Ukrainain local friend can mediate on her behalf. Prepare the list of what you are willing to offer, while focusing on her stability in this country.
I honestly think it will be cheaper and less stressful for you to pay for her school, counselor, and basic expenses until she finds a job and gets her "independent" green card, rather than waste these money on the lawyers. Lawyers have enough money. Your wife has none. It only seems wise to me to give money to a person who desperately needs them instead of giving money to a person who already has enough. 

[mies]

Mies, have you been in the US so long that you have forgotten the frequent case of FSUM abandoning his wife and child? 

That's only because we do not have American court system 
Example is not very relevant, because FSUW at home has a huge network she can rely on: parents, friends, relatives, etc. If the spouse abandons her, grandparents will take care of the children. She is employed more often than not. She has her own place to live at. She is a citizen and has all associated privileges. Most importantly, a FSUM did not bring her from a foreign country. He married an equal, perfectly integrated in a local society. 
 
Seriously though, it is not uncommon for a couple in FSU to share apartment even after they divorced, because housing is expensive. People were forced to learn to live together, negotiate, and reach some sort of a compromise.

Here men (and women) waste $$$$ on lawyers and court battles instead of doing something much more peaceful and reasonable: talking to each other and splitting between themselves money saved on legal fees. I doubt there are many billionaires on this board. Or extravagantly rich people. So basically we are talking about people who are not rich wasting their hard-earned money, which eventually pay Harvard/Stanford/Columbia college fees for lawyers' kids.
 

[Muzh]

I would recommend that unless you know this lawyer very well, that you consider switching to a male lawyer. Voice of experience here.

I know you think women are on par with dirt, but I had a female attorney when I was dealing with my ex-wife and I ended up with custody of my kids and not owing her a cent. Given that the circumstances were that the ex was "not getting any satisfaction from the kids,"  I believe my attorney did a fantastic job.

[Maxx2]

As somebody who went through the exact same things as LD and in the State of Minnesota with my Russian ex-wife I see it as her taking the express way out of their marriage by claiming abuse. She needs "official evidence" of abuse as defined in the instruction section for the I-360 self petition. BillyB is right the consoling will be enter into as evidence. My guess she get a prescription for medication to treat her depression, a note from her councilor describing her trauma, the protective order, the proof of living in a women's shelter and the police report from their escort will all be added to her filing. I used to help men (and AW) with this problem so I've seen your situation dozens and dozens of times.


LD, unless your income is high I wouldn't worry too much about a high payment. Likely you will have to pay nothing at all or if you do it will only be for half the length of your marriage as was the law in Minnesota when I went through this nonsense ('03). BTW I was making about $120K a year and paid nothing in spousal support and kept all my stuff. Pre-marital assets are exempt and these short term marriages don't get much traction in court. Of course someone always points out the exceptions but mostly it is not that bad. The biggest problem to deal with is the emotional one. In times like you are in right now feel like the first 25 minutes of 'Saving Private Ryan.' I [size=78%] [/size][/size]know you are probably freaking out right now. Keep cool do as your lawyer tells you and make no contact with her or if she contacts you directly hang up or through an intermediate tell them to contact your attorney and then hang up. Good luck![size=78%]

[Muzh]

To me age gap has nothing to do with how successful a marriage will be. It all boils down to how well you actually know your spouse before marriage......

This is called rationalization. 

[Muzh]

Mies, have you been in the US so long that you have forgotten the frequent case of FSUM abandoning his wife and child? 

Ah, yes. But she has her support system back home when the dastard RM abandons her. 

 

This is not Lonedrake's situation.  Reading between the lines he wanted to build a life with her, and het tried, yet something on her end prevented it.  Also, he has shown no bitterness as frequently displayed by the divorcing men.  Also, we do not know all the details, and need not know them. [/size][size=78%] [/size]

I have met a few divorced FSUW here in the US (friends of my wife).  Some men are as bad as your description of dumping an unwanted pet.  However, I feel this is not Lonedrake. 

And you know this how?

[/size]

In any event, she can still obtain her citizenship without any support from Lonedrake.  Also, she is still a spouse and has certain legal rights.   The legal process will sort this out.

You can only hope. Still, Mies' version carries more weight.

[Muzh]

Lonedrake, I think I remember your photos when you were just planning to get married. If I do not confuse you with anybody, the two of you looked like a beautiful and well-matched couple.

Is there an option for divorce mediation? Relate somehow to your wife, that you want to try this option. Maybe her Russian/Ukrainain local friend can mediate on her behalf. Prepare the list of what you are willing to offer, while focusing on her stability in this country.

I honestly think it will be cheaper and less stressful for you to pay for her school, counselor, and basic expenses until she finds a job and gets her "independent" green card, rather than waste these money on the lawyers. Lawyers have enough money. Your wife has none. It only seems wise to me to give money to a person who desperately needs them instead of giving money to a person who already has enough.

+1


Any guesses why lawyers drive Mercedes. BMW, Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, etc.?

[jone]

From my experience, and to all the readers here,

Lone Drake is a good guy.  Having gone through a marital split-up, I can tell you that emotions run hot and cold.   Sometimes event the nicest guys can go through enough turmoil that they can act out without control.  However, if I had to place a bet, it would be that Steve can handle this.

We, on this forum, can observe and contribute.  But in this situation, I would hope that most of the comments are for support.  (And, of course, ridiculing Steve for being a Vikings fan.)

[alex330]

Any guesses why lawyers drive Mercedes. BMW, Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, etc.?

I thought they had in the biz discounts? 

[Muzh]

From my experience, and to all the readers here,

Lone Drake is a good guy.  Having gone through a marital split-up, I can tell you that emotions run hot and cold.   Sometimes event the nicest guys can go through enough turmoil that they can act out without control.  However, if I had to place a bet, it would be that Steve can handle this.

We, on this forum, can observe and contribute.  But in this situation, I would hope that most of the comments are for support.  (And, of course, ridiculing Steve for being a Vikings fan.)

What LD has to do is be smart. No time for hot/cold emotions. There are TWO people involved and one of them came to this country on a promise of not being all alone in a foreign country.


Once lawyers are involved, you'll lose your house.