Update. Not Good.

[pokerintherear]

Such could easily be the situation if her attorney is aggressive and "works" the case (i. e., run up a large legal bill).

Such is not the case if the wife's attorney follows a  collaborative process.   

Judges prefer the latter because the cases settles quickly and does not clog the docket.

Yes,  you are correct in most cases. Sometimes events happen that can tell you whats coming next. In LD's case it was the picture of the protective order. Things will become serious and nasty when a woman decides to pull this card.

It doesn't matter if your married, engaged, or dating when the woman you are involved with goes to the police station or in front of a Judge and petitions for a protective order on false premises the man should eject immediately. Its all over in more ways than one. 

It would send chills down my body to think the woman I cared for and treated as good as possible and slept next to every night would make false statements about me that could lead to jail if not handled properly. This should be a mans #1 deal breaker in all relationships. If she even mutters the words to suggest this its time for a divorce or break up. If not she will eventually act on the threat.

[treadmilldude]

Poker, in your experience with US Men (and not even necessarily only US Men, but all Men who successfully bring a FSU to their Western Country, as we have lots of men from all over the world here on RWD) who have successfully married a woman from the FSU and gotten her over here...what percentage of the time would you say the FSU woman has ultimately ended up filing false DV charges? I hear of false DV charges discussed fairly often on this board. Naturally, I think fake DV charges are the most ominous thing a man can ever face in this journey. What I am asking you to do is give a rough estimate of the percentage of time fake DV charges materialize. For ex., 2% of the time. 3% of the time?

Do you think judges are aware that this is a common practice of FSU women, in order to score their Green Card? Or are judges pretty naive to this?   

[ML]

DV charges are filed 66.23 percent of the time.  And they are probably true 37.62 percent of the time.

[treadmilldude]

HAHA ML, I was just asking for a rough estimate, like maybe 2%, maybe 3%. You are funny ML. Or maybe more like "We have had about 5 guys on RWD over the last 10 years or so who have had false DV charges filed against them."

ML, last night I was reading a little bit of your trip report (it was extremely long, so I just skimmed a tiny bit of it)..is it OK if I let her eat bread? Or should I whack her over the head if she goes near a loaf of bread? So funny !! 

[Maxx2]

What I am asking you to do is give a rough estimate of the percentage of time fake DV charges materialize. For ex., 2% of the time. 3% of the time?

Do you think judges are aware that this is a common practice of FSU women, in order to score their Green Card? Or are judges pretty naive to this?   

I was told by an immigration attorney that he and his colleagues estimate that unless the woman has gotten her green card it is about a 90% probability. My experienced divorce attorney with these types of marriages told me it is a "100% probability" that false charges would be used in event of a divorce before her getting her L.P.R. "green" card. I think he was exaggerating a bit.


Do the judges know? I think almost all do but almost all don't care. For some it's political as in feminist sympathies and for others it is if "you are stupid enough (their thinking) to marry a "mail-order-bride" then you deserve whatever comes your way."

[Maxx2]

DV charges are filed 66.23 percent of the time.  And they are probably true 37.62 percent of the time.

I think it's about half that. But that is just my guess.

[Miquel Westano]

DV charges are filed 66.23 percent of the time.  And they are probably true 37.62 percent of the time.

I had heard the often quoted, 66.24% but knew that was way too high.  66.23% is much more believable and I appreciate you clearing this up. 

[Bee Farmer]

After reading this, my impressions are this:

Suck it up, grow a pair, and be a real man.

A man would be money ahead to take a little more time getting to know a lady instead of rushing into a bad marriage.  (A few years is nothing compared to a lifetime together.)

Just out of curiosity - does she still have all the same qualities that were the reasons you married her?  If the reasons you married her still exist, then you have no business getting divorced.  The problem is you, and not her.

Psychiatrist!   Adjustment to a new country!  Not having family and friends!   Very taxing.

You had your hands full.  Reading between the lines, you are taking the right step.

That's very bad advice Gator.  Instead of filing for divorce, he should be trying to be supportive of his wife.

I know a guy whose wife has some mental issues, and been hospitalized a couple times.  He never considered divorcing her.

Several have opined that the better you treat her . . . the better the outcome will be for you.

Hate to burst bubbles . . . but that is probably not true about the same percentage as it is true.

I have seen cases where the man went all out in offering more than required and other acts of kindness.  This was repaid by taking all of that, then demanding more, lying about events, actions, etc.

ML, you can't have acts of kindness during a divorce.  They are incompatible. (Well, withdrawing the divorce filing would be an act of kindness.)

I look at it this way.
When you marry a woman, you agree to accept all THEIR financial liabilities, past, present, and future...unconditionally.
When you marry a woman, you agree that what you have now, (or will gain in the future) also belongs to them too...unconditionally.
I believe that if a man wants divorced, he should still be responsible for all the lady's past, present, and future financial obligations....and he should also be responsible for sharing all his past, present, and future assets.
(Sure makes staying married look like a brighter future.  It sure encourages a guy to choose a woman wisely.  I believe choosing your spouse is the most important decision you will make in your lifetime.)

A guy doesn't get credit for good behavior

BillyB, what good behavior?  The guy filed for divorce.  That's BAD behavior.

She sees her Ukrainian psychiatrist via Skype. Does not believe American psychiatrists/counselers know how to help.(surprise right)

So be a man about it.  Select a handful of American psychiatrists/counselors you think are ok, and make her choose one.  Also allow her to see the Ukrainian one of her choosing too.  It's a simple compromise.  She still gets to talk to the Ukrainian doctor of her choice, and you get what you want by having her see an American doctor.  (By making her choose an American doctor, she will have a hard time arguing against the American doctor, because it was one she agreed to.)

I am just going to do what my lawyer recommends. I trust that she knows MN divorce laws.

Whenever you get lawyers involved, the situation becomes confrontational.  There will be no cooperation, which is what you need to repair the relationship.

In the event of a nasty court battle, women almost always win.

You have the wrong paradigm.  You have a competition mentality, and not a cooperation mentality.

There are no winners in a divorce.  Both sides lose.  The only way to be a winner is to work through the problems, and make the marriage work.  Then both husband and wife win.

Yesterday she sent me a text saying we have court. She also sent a picture of a order of protection.
What don't understand is why law enforcement has not contacted me.

I think you have misunderstood the protection order.
Law enforcement has not contacted you because she has not raised allegations of domestic violence.
There are two types of protection orders.  One is to protect against domestic violence.
The other protection order is a protection order that is standard in divorces.  You can't sell or hide assets, kick your spouse out of the home, have utilities turned off, stop paying bills, etc.  That is more likely the protection order she obtained.

I don't know if you noticed, but she is doing tit for tat.
You decided to get divorced.  She agreed.
You filed for divorce.  She moved out and got a protection order.
She is following your lead.  If you want things to get better, you will have to take the lead and take steps to de-escalate the situation.

It doesn't sound like a good idea to have this thread on here. Sounds really ugly, this is true nature of FSU women when they get mad, they are pure and sweet when you meet them, but if you cross them, expect no tears, just a knife in your back.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I think the true nature of any good woman is to fight with every last ounce of their strength to save a marriage...even if that means making the costs of divorce unbearable.  That is what good women rightfully do.

It is unclear whether counselor is making any notes. We can be certain that the counselor will not come to US to testify in any court. We can be almost sure that the counselor will not be able to provide a transcript of their sessions translated to English. As such, her "counseling" does not exist from the POV of the American legal system.

If the divorce goes sour, this is a huge luck for the OP that her counselor is in Ukraine and not an American one.

Actually mies, the US Supreme Court says you could introduce testimony from the Ukrainian counselor, as long as Lonedrake's attorney had the opportunity to cross-examine them or obtain a deposition.  Courts will allow people to testify in court via videoconference.  As long as the Ukrainian counselor spoke English, or a translator was in court, you could have the counselor testify in a court via Skype.  Or have the counselor submit a notarized written affidavit, as long as LD's attorney had the opportunity to cross-examine the written affidavit.

Lonedrake should have discussed with her divorce and her legal status before starting divorce procedures. He made his wife feel intimidated and threatened. While the lying and her actions are not justifiable, he is the one who brought this trouble upon himself. He should have talked with his wife and made sure that the divorce will not bring her serious problems, and convinced her he would help her.

+1

2 wrongs don't make a right.
Working through problems will make things right.

Second one: "It all boils down to how well you actually know your spouse before marriage......", must have been a tongue-in-a-cheek. Since we are talking about men who meet and marry women from the country half-the-globe-and-ocean away, after hardly having a month (total) of face-to-face interactions.

Mies, how much face-to-face time do you think people should have before foreign marriages?

after living in this country for a while, I start thinking that this is probably a cultural trait: individualism and a habit to only think about yourself and your own interest, while avoiding responsibility for the life of others around you. This is quite different attitude than in FSU. As a result people in USA are more successful individually, and independent, but the trust is often lacking in relationship, and the social capital is eroding.

+1

There are still areas with strong family values...but family values are definitely weakening.  Too many people believe it's all about me...instead of all about us.

There is an adult man. He knows that his wife is a foreigner. He knows that his wife wants to stay in USA. He knows that his wife hasn't even finished her school (but will finish soon), does not have permanent resident card, and does not have her own source of income. He brought this woman to USA. The marriage has problems, so her decides "too many problems, i'm done."

I feel sympathetic, but really, what were you thinking while putting your wife in such a tight corner? What were you expecting to happen? and now you are surprised that things don't go as smoothly?  (facepalm)

It makes you question how 'adult' the man is, doesn't it? 

It's my perception that many of the men who marry FSUW are guys who are impulsive and spontaneous, instead of guys who are cautious and plan ahead.

Is there an option for divorce mediation? Relate somehow to your wife, that you want to try this option. Maybe her Russian/Ukrainain local friend can mediate on her behalf. Prepare the list of what you are willing to offer, while focusing on her stability in this country.
I honestly think it will be cheaper and less stressful for you to pay for her school, counselor, and basic expenses until she finds a job and gets her "independent" green card, rather than waste these money on the lawyers. Lawyers have enough money. Your wife has none. It only seems wise to me to give money to a person who desperately needs them instead of giving money to a person who already has enough. 

A voice of reason again.  You're on a roll mies.

And who knows.  Maybe with this approach, they might be able to patch things up.

If a man uses this approach, even if the marriage ends, the woman can't blame the guy for it ending.  She has to admit her own responsibility.  Be a real man, and support her, even if she is a nightmare.

Very very few posters that come here,get married,get a divorce come back here to give a report. Most lick their wounds, saddle up again or move on and never look east again. I commend the ones that come back and share so others can maybe learn. Unless you have been through divorce with a FSU lady then I have to say your opinion on said matter loses some credibility.

Greg, if you have ever been divorced, your opinion on marriage loses credibility.  You don't know how to make a marriage work - you only know how to fail.

The most credible people on making a marriage work are people who are married and have never been divorced.
The next most credible are people who have never been married, because they learned from the mistakes from others, and were wise enough to avoid or get out of bad relationships prior to marriage.
The people who have no credibility on marriage are people who have gotten divorced.  (If they knew how to have a successful marriage, they would have chosen wisely and wouldn't be divorced.)

My point was that many of them get all their frustrations out about their new home and country with their husband the sponsor, then divorce and then go off and find a man more to their liking (I managed to get 4 "theirs" in 1 sentence). Their sponsor into the US was not the man that they would have chosen if they had a choice in the matter. They compromised that to get the material benefits and immigration status into the "Land of Opportunity." In other words the guy was the convenient mule to help them emigrate.

Maxx, is the problem FSU women....or is the real problem the guys who lead with their wallets who attract girls who are just looking for mules and material benefits?

Garbage attracts flies.

[Maxx2]

After reading this, my impressions are this:

Suck it up, grow a pair, and be a real man.

A man would be money ahead to take a little more time getting to know a lady instead of rushing into a bad marriage.  (A few years is nothing compared to a lifetime together.)

Just out of curiosity - does she still have all the same qualities that were the reasons you married her?  If the reasons you married her still exist, then you have no business getting divorced.  The problem is you, and not her.

That's very bad advice Gator.  Instead of filing for divorce, he should be trying to be supportive of his wife.

I know a guy whose wife has some mental issues, and been hospitalized a couple times.  He never considered divorcing her.

ML, you can't have acts of kindness during a divorce.  They are incompatible. (Well, withdrawing the divorce filing would be an act of kindness.)

I look at it this way.
When you marry a woman, you agree to accept all THEIR financial liabilities, past, present, and future...unconditionally.
When you marry a woman, you agree that what you have now, (or will gain in the future) also belongs to them too...unconditionally.
I believe that if a man wants divorced, he should still be responsible for all the lady's past, present, and future financial obligations....and he should also be responsible for sharing all his past, present, and future assets.
(Sure makes staying married look like a brighter future.  It sure encourages a guy to choose a woman wisely.  I believe choosing your spouse is the most important decision you will make in your lifetime.)

BillyB, what good behavior?  The guy filed for divorce.  That's BAD behavior.

So be a man about it.  Select a handful of American psychiatrists/counselors you think are ok, and make her choose one.  Also allow her to see the Ukrainian one of her choosing too.  It's a simple compromise.  She still gets to talk to the Ukrainian doctor of her choice, and you get what you want by having her see an American doctor.  (By making her choose an American doctor, she will have a hard time arguing against the American doctor, because it was one she agreed to.)

Whenever you get lawyers involved, the situation becomes confrontational.  There will be no cooperation, which is what you need to repair the relationship.

You have the wrong paradigm.  You have a competition mentality, and not a cooperation mentality.

There are no winners in a divorce.  Both sides lose.  The only way to be a winner is to work through the problems, and make the marriage work.  Then both husband and wife win.

I think you have misunderstood the protection order.
Law enforcement has not contacted you because she has not raised allegations of domestic violence.
There are two types of protection orders.  One is to protect against domestic violence.
The other protection order is a protection order that is standard in divorces.  You can't sell or hide assets, kick your spouse out of the home, have utilities turned off, stop paying bills, etc.  That is more likely the protection order she obtained.

I don't know if you noticed, but she is doing tit for tat.
You decided to get divorced.  She agreed.
You filed for divorce.  She moved out and got a protection order.
She is following your lead.  If you want things to get better, you will have to take the lead and take steps to de-escalate the situation.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I think the true nature of any good woman is to fight with every last ounce of their strength to save a marriage...even if that means making the costs of divorce unbearable.  That is what good women rightfully do.

Actually mies, the US Supreme Court says you could introduce testimony from the Ukrainian counselor, as long as Lonedrake's attorney had the opportunity to cross-examine them or obtain a deposition.  Courts will allow people to testify in court via videoconference.  As long as the Ukrainian counselor spoke English, or a translator was in court, you could have the counselor testify in a court via Skype.  Or have the counselor submit a notarized written affidavit, as long as LD's attorney had the opportunity to cross-examine the written affidavit.

+1

2 wrongs don't make a right.
Working through problems will make things right.

Mies, how much face-to-face time do you think people should have before foreign marriages?

+1

There are still areas with strong family values...but family values are definitely weakening.  Too many people believe it's all about me...instead of all about us.

It makes you question how 'adult' the man is, doesn't it? 

It's my perception that many of the men who marry FSUW are guys who are impulsive and spontaneous, instead of guys who are cautious and plan ahead.

A voice of reason again.  You're on a roll mies.

And who knows.  Maybe with this approach, they might be able to patch things up.

If a man uses this approach, even if the marriage ends, the woman can't blame the guy for it ending.  She has to admit her own responsibility.  Be a real man, and support her, even if she is a nightmare.

Greg, if you have ever been divorced, your opinion on marriage loses credibility.  You don't know how to make a marriage work - you only know how to fail.

The most credible people on making a marriage work are people who are married and have never been divorced.
The next most credible are people who have never been married, because they learned from the mistakes from others, and were wise enough to avoid or get out of bad relationships prior to marriage.
The people who have no credibility on marriage are people who have gotten divorced.  (If they knew how to have a successful marriage, they would have chosen wisely and wouldn't be divorced.)

Maxx, is the problem FSU women....or is the real problem the guys who lead with their wallets who attract girls who are just looking for mules and material benefits?

Garbage attracts flies.

I got good news for you Bee Farmer! In your journey through life every one of your instincts and first thoughts is wrong. So if you choose the opposite course you'll do alright. Think of it as your reverse compass to guide you through life. 

[GuppyCaptain]

Bee Farmer. I've got to ask.....have you ever been married? If so have you ever gone through a divorce?

[BillyB]

BillyB, what good behavior?  The guy filed for divorce.  That's BAD behavior.

According to the laws of the land, divorce is a right that citizens have and a tool to get away from bad behavior.

When I told LD he won't get credit for good behavior, I meant if he gave more than based off what the law requires of him to his soon to be ex even before the divorce proceedings, the courts will not give him credit for it.

Bee Farmer. I've got to ask.....have you ever been married? If so have you ever gone through a divorce?

He's never been married.

[Bee Farmer]

I just consider the source Maxx. 

I'll continue to follow my instincts and smile at pretty ladies and pet happy puppies.

[Bee Farmer]

According to the laws of the land, divorce is a right that citizens have and a tool to get away from bad behavior.

That's nonsense.  Rights come from your Creator.  Privileges are granted by laws.

You cannot legislate morality.

Bee Farmer. I've got to ask.....have you ever been married? If so have you ever gone through a divorce?

No, I've never been married.  I have learned from others successful marriages and others divorces.  I have been in a relationship with problems, and got out of it before marriage, and I have avoided getting into many bad relationships.

Angels fear to tread where fools rush in.

[LiveFromUkraine]

No, I've never been married.  I have learned from others successful marriages and others divorces.  I have been in a relationship with problems, and got out of it before marriage, and I have avoided getting into many bad relationships.

Angels fear to tread where fools rush in.

lol  How old are you, 50+?   Running away when a problem arises isn't what most consider being a Man's man, my man...

[Bee Farmer]

I'm in my 30's.

I was in a 4.5 year relationship in my early 20's.  I didn't run away at the first problem.  But I also realized that I wasn't God, and God was the only one who could fix the problems the girl had.

A man's man is prudent too, and chooses not to get involved with girls who are going to bring unnecessary problems.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I'm in my 30's.

I was in a 4.5 year relationship in my early 20's.  I didn't run away at the first problem.  But I also realized that I wasn't God, and God was the only one who could fix the problems the girl had.

A man's man is prudent too, and chooses not to get involved with girls who are going to bring unnecessary problems.

haha  You should get used to being alone.   Let me guess, you decide which problems are necessary and which are not.

[Shadow]

That's nonsense.  Rights come from your Creator.  Privileges are granted by laws.

You cannot legislate morality.

Actually legislation is a clear reflection of current morality of society.
Much more clear and moral as any book from the iron age...

[BillyB]

I have avoided getting into many bad relationships.

Angels fear to tread where fools rush in.

Do you know how many good women you past by in life. It's not always about making the mistake of in rushing in. Your ability to identify and attract a good woman is in play too.

[TigerPaws]

Hello all I have not weighted in on any forum posts in many years largely because we were at sea on tow circumnavigations and partly because of the controversy regarding my stance on men and marriage.

First let me say that my Lady and I have been married almost 16 years and we spend around 2 years getting to know and become comfortable with each other prior to marrying. Additionally we had a well written and mutually agreed upon Prenuptial agreement in which she hired her own bilingual (Russian/English) lawyer to review the agreement and while I paid for her attorney it was done in the blind to that I could never bee accuse of tainting the contents of the agreement. Please note that the agreement had an end date so that after 10 years together the original agreement could be renewed, rewritten or it would expire naturally.

Bee Farmer has a point one which I used to hammer on, far too many men rush into marriage without spending enough time with the Lady of their choice. Simply speaking they are overcapitalized in their search which adversely effects their decision making. I am still reading about men who are trying to search for a FSU Lady with limited time and available funds.

Lets face it gentlemen this is an expensive endeavor.

Haste in this process usually leads to mistakes and those equal failure which unless a man protects himself can be expensive, very expensive.

And while there are no guarantees in life gentlemen it is your decision to ask a Lady to be with you rarely will a woman ask a man. So in the end it is your decision and if you chose poorly you will pay the price.        

[GuppyCaptain]

No, I've never been married.

Oh okay. With the confidence and apparent wisdom you were posting with one would swear you have had the experience of going through several marriages and divorces. You know, kind of like when someone comes on here and starts pontificating about the FSU and FSUW without ever having been there.

[fathertime]

That's nonsense.  Rights come from your Creator.  Privileges are granted by laws.

You cannot legislate morality.

No, I've never been married.  I have learned from others successful marriages and others divorces.  I have been in a relationship with problems, and got out of it before marriage, and I have avoided getting into many bad relationships.

Angels fear to tread where fools rush in.

Well Bee Farmer, you can't run away from who you are, and if religion and mistakes are THAT important to you than you have to go with it.   I'd say that many others here don't take religion as seriously as you do, so they are freer to make different decisions than you might.  In addition, many don't consider a potential, or in some cases even likely divorce somewhere down the line as a reason not to enjoy the here and now of life!  For you, I guess you are compelled to be pretty meticulous, and that may be time exhaustive, so I'd say getting on the FSU horse and riding Asap is critically important for you. There are likely some ladies out there somewhere that have a similar outlook, or are at least open to that outlook. 


   Do you have any future trips planned?


Fathertime! 

[TigerPaws]

The process of finding a Lady from the FSU is not for the faint of heart, it is a long and involved process. It is a numbers game, meet a hundred women and your odds of finding exactly what you are looking for is far more likely that meeting 10.

Gentlemen you must have the time and resources (funds) to meet with and spend time with the Ladies that meet your requirements, needs, wants and desires.

The women will not come to you.

 

[alex330]

If you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary.

[TigerPaws]

If you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary.

Words of wisdom Sir.

I like to say "Do what everyone else does and you will get what everyone else has. Try something different"

[lonedrake]

I am not going to get into to many details at this time. We have a hearing on the order of protection on the 28th. I went down to the courthouse last week and picked up the papers. It turns out she did lie.....but at least did not claim there was any physical abuse. I can understand from the allegations that this was a coached statement. My lawyer told me not to worry as the allegations and evidence are flimsy. Still makes me nervous going to court for something I did not do. You never know what can happen.

Bee Farmer, kick away, I'm down.