vasectomy

[Gef]

Jeez jb! Alright, why I did it was beside the point of my post, nor did I care to share my reasons for it here. So I made a mistake and now I deeply regret it, OK?! BS jb? There is no BS, my reasons for doing it in the first place are private and complex, as life often is, so except it. Now except for jb, I just would like to say thanks to everyone for their intelligent feedback and varied opinions, but most of all, for just simply taking my post at face value rather than dwelling on the "inane" whys and what fors and finding fault.  As it turned out, the phone call, by way of my translator, went very well. My lady was very understanding once the process was explained to her. With all things considered, for her, it is myself & our relationship that is most important to her. Also, rather than risk surgery she even suggested we adopt, if things were get to that point in the future. There was more to this call but this is the essence of the conversation. No doubt jb, you will find fault with this too in your own arrogant way since anything that is not explained to you in mind numbing detail should be ridiculed and considered "inane". So yes jb there is more to this than meets the eye but you'll just have to keep wondering, won't you?

[jb]

No, I don't need to wonder about your vasectomy, and I promise I won't lose any sleep over it.

I had already conjured up in my mind why you might have elected to go under the knife before my last explanatory post.  Actually I figured there might be a couple of reasons.  a.) you either just don't like kids and don't want to be bothered with parenthood, or maybe more likely, b.) you had at some point been involved with a woman who didn't want to be bothered with kids.  If it was the 'b' option, she probably demanded you be neutered because she was too lazy to keep her pills organized and didn't want a tubal ligation for herself, and you willingly handed over your masculinity.  Thus, a woman like that maintains her own fertility for another time and another man she might consider more suitable, and you are now stuck with no life and no possibility of a continuing linage.

If either of those possibilities even remotely smack of reality, I'm far more concerned about the RW you are involved with than I would be about you.  You said you made a mistake in getting the vasectomy, I note you didn't say you'd made a big mistake, for whatever reasons. Which probably means you still view this as merely a minor trivial annoyance.  I'd ask you to consider your future actions a bit more seriously, because your track record for making life altering decisions is not good. I'm certainly not saying adoption is a bad choice for a childless couple, but for a woman, it's not the same as having her own. Asking a woman you've only known so briefly to give up on the idea of her own future children is selfish beyond belief.  A far better option to screwing up the reproductive life of another human being would be to pursue a woman which has a child already. Then you could dedicate your efforts to being the best step-father you possibly can.  Unless, of course, you have some more of those same selfish hang ups about raising another man's child.

I can just see in my minds eye a man reading this and muttering to himself; "there goes that arrogant SOB again", but I assure you, it's the other way around.  The true arrogance is to think, and believe, that it's OK to ask someone else to suffer the consequences of your mistakes, and that's what you are doing when you ask a woman to give up her own children for the sake of your bad decisions.  If I were a woman, frankly, I wouldn't think you were worth it.

[coreqq]

Would you like some cheese to go with that constant whine of yours jb?
Lighten up and stop showing off to the rest of us. Can't see what you have against this guys post but your attitude is sure tiresome.

[ConnerVT]

I don't know... jb makes some valid points, and explains his reasoning clearly and in detail.  Most detractors seem to be the ones whom whine, never really explaining their counterpoint, but only expressing their indignation and contempt.  This is a discussion forum.  Similar to a debate, one needs to express their ideas with words.  Those who can not do this effectively need not apply.

As for the OP who stated that his reason behind his surgery "private and complex,"  I have found that when people use this statement, it's usually because they know their explanation doesn't hold water...

[coreqq]

I have a different take on this. If you read the original post again carefully you would see that his point had nothing to do with why he did it, only about having to tell his girlfriend about it and wondered if anyone else here had to do it too. So why would he need a counterpoint? Frankly I don't see anything concise about jb and his reasoning for argueing. jb makes points without using a tangible basis in facts, how does he or any of us know what happened? But you are right it is a discussion forum, but it is not a bully pulpit either. I have seen this happen too many times on other discusssion groups, people reading different things into what someone else writes and arguements break out. Good reading comprehension w/o the attitude would be a plus in this forum too.

[ConnerVT]

Wouldn't explaining why he had the procedure performed ultimately be part of explaining that he has had the operation?  One would think that to be the logical chain of events.

[coreqq]

Wouldn't explaining why he had the procedure performed ultimately be part of explaining that he has had the operation?  One would think that to be the logical chain of events.

I don't like taking sides but yes, I see your point. Maybe there is some bad history there?
That could explain why he was sweating the idea of telling his girlfriend. But still he was only talking about breaking the news to his girlfriend and jb did come across a little hard and aggressive on a side issue so probably the guy felt defensive.  Personally I think the guy just needed some moral support from us, simple as that. Oh well.

[Michelangelo]

You guys crack me up!

You jump to conclusions and slam Gef without even knowing the truth.

Do you have any idea how many vasectomies are performed a year?  It's very very commen and gives the guy great sex--much better than with a condom.

But the major reason is for medical reasons dealing with the woman-like she will die if she gets pregnant or she carries a gene that will result in deformed babies.

We need to back off and not jump to conclusions here....

But i guess it makes some guys feel like "real men" to rant and rave about how only a fool would do this...

Hmmm..... who is the fool here?

[coreqq]

Well said Michelangelo! I couldn't agree more! It is easy for some "real men" to slam from the safety of a computer screen.

[KenC]

Am I the only one who sees the comedy in Michelangelo and Coregg congratulating themselves on tag teaming their attack on jb for attacking someone else?  The only difference I see is that jb's posts were on topic.  I got some advice for you all, if you don't like the way jb writes, then don't read his posts.  Who the hell died and anointed you two moderators?
KenC

[Michelangelo]

Am I the only one who sees the comedy in Michelangelo and Coregg congratulating themselves on tag teaming their attack on jb for attacking someone else?  The only difference I see is that jb's posts were on topic.  I got some advice for you all, if you don't like the way jb writes, then don't read his posts.  Who the hell died and anointed you two moderators?

What?   Ken, the topic is Vasectomy. 

It is on topic to say that there are valid reasons to have a vasectomy.

And BTW--it's a good thing to bring out differnt perspectives on an issue.

Had you considered the medical reasons some women can't have babies and it could be life threatening if they became pregnant?

Think about it...

[TheHorseman]

Well I am not going to get into the debate over why he did it.  I really don't care.  As the man says it's his business.

My question would be:  Since you have talked about a reversal.  Are you saying that you now want to father a child?  To me that would be the logical question.

Having fathered a child and had a vasecetomy after, I can say with certainty that it isn't the act of being the sire that is important.  It is taking responcibility for the life of a child.  Whether you sire it, adopt it, implant it, or find it on the street.  You have to ask yourself "Am I perpared to go the distance with this life.  That is what being a parent is all about. 

[Vaughn]

Gef,

  I don't care why you elected to have the vasectomy - and all the backbiting confirms my conviction that intelligent men here occasionally
mutate into dart-throwing adolescents. So be it. I submit that
"Need to Know" discretion overrides the "On Topic" argument anyday....

  If you're interested, I can put you in touch with a AM/RW couple
who married four years ago under similar circumstances. In their
case, the reversal was successful. Those inclined to wonder who
or why can forget about it.
 

[Gef]

Am I the only one who sees the comedy in Michelangelo and Coregg congratulating themselves on tag teaming their attack on jb for attacking someone else?  The only difference I see is that jb's posts were on topic.  I got some advice for you all, if you don't like the way jb writes, then don't read his posts.  Who the hell died and anointed you two moderators?
KenC

Get a grip Ken, jb and his fan club were never on topic. It was all about showing off, jumping to the wrong conclusions and slamming someone, period. Reading comprehension seems to be lacking with some people here, and that's the only comedy I see.
Now back to reality. - To the Horseman, you are absolutely right & yes I am prepared for the long haul.:-)
To Vaughn, thank you, I would like to be put in touch with this couple, if they don't mind.

[jb]

This thread is fairly typical of what I mentally refer to as a "Seeking Affirmation" kind of thread.

In a thread such as this we usually see a man with little or nothing to offer a woman, (except maybe money), usually it's a middle-aged virgin seeking mental cripple, or in this case, one of an actual physical handicap, seeking approval from the like minded.   Make no mistake about it, sterility is a physical handicap when entering into a marriage with a girl a who is of child bearing years and desires a family. 

Why would any man go down that road?  The cheerleaders and Rah-Rah gang merely encourage more bad decision making.  I was dissappointed to see The Horseman join in with his post advising Gef to not mention the vasectomy, and to even lie about it, but was not surprised to see the usual gang of suspects putting down their crack pipes long enough to offer up another endless round of mindless encouragement to their fellow cripple.  It seems that critical thinking is not a skill possessed by many, and we know who you are.  BTW, I am very accustomed to the slings and arrows, potshots, and sundry insults offered up as a defense for bad advice.

So, Gef, go ahead and hang noodles on this girls ears, she may even marry you.  I hope the brief period of bliss you will enjoy is worth the daily misery you'll be dishing out to a girl who will always hold out hope for a miracle that will probably never arrive.  We have already seen our own beloved Jack's marriage with his lovely ex-wife go down the toilet for exactly this same problem.  I would go so far as to suggest a long and serious chat with Jack, otherwise all the friendly and encouraging posts in the world won't salvage a marriage like this.  This is as surely a train wreck in the making as any I've ever seen.

You are a sad case, my friend, sad indeed.

[TheHorseman]

While I will agree that pointing out the it was possible to not tell his girlfriend about his condition was not a good Idea.  I didn't offer it up as THE way to go, Just as an option.  given that I actually told all the women that I have been involved with, I happen to think that honesty in the best policy.

I believe that was the point of Gef's post.  How should go about telling her in order to be honest about it.  Forgive my foolish advice.

BUT, jb has done nothing but attach this guy for no other reason than to see his own words in type.  While he calls everyone in the threat that disagrees with what he says "Crack smoking cripples"  I suggest that the only cripple her is jb.  I have notice in other threads that he always takes the nagitive aspect of any point and pushes it past the point of stupidy.

Maybe jb would be willing to be a sperm donor.  This would allow the woman to have the child that she always wanted  (but wait we haven't asked her want she wants yet)  I haven't seen what the woman's age is, whether she has ever had a child or if she has mentioned that this is her goal in live.

It sounds more like jb's goal in life.  So how about it jb!  Care to wack off in a cup to help these folks out?

So while I am man enough to admit that my advice was poorly put, lets see if jb is man enough to back off of this guy for doing something that he obviously regrets now.  I am sure he regret bringing it up in here!

[Admin]

Got an idea.

How about we try to avoid the presumption of motives not stated - and the judgements of those who post here.

- Dan

[TheHorseman]

POINT TAKEN Dan

I agree:
Will

[Bruno]

So, Gef, go ahead and hang noodles on this girls ears, she may even marry you.

Noodles, the return 

What is the meanig of "hang noodles" these time... is it your definition who mean "compliment" or my definition who mean "lie" 

[Michelangelo]

Ok, let's talk.  I was finished posting on this topic after Dan asked people to "cool it.'

But one of the posters on this strand has misquoted the post below on another strand, using only this portion of the post--

"Do you have any idea how many vasectomies are performed a year?  It's very very commen and gives the guy great sex--much better than with a condom."

And he left out the rest of the quote-- "But the major reason is for medical reasons dealing with the woman-like she will die if she gets pregnant or she carries a gene that will result in deformed babies."

That poster left out the context--that this strand is about a married man who had a vasectomy and want to have a reversal and wants advise on how to share the concept of vasectomy with his FSU girl.

To me, my post is perfectly clear here.  It refers to vasectomy in the context of marriage. I never meant to imply that a man should have a vasectomy so he would not have to use a condom with girls he is dating! That's crazy.  So if I mislead anyone, other than this poster, I apologize.  My comments were definitely directed to married men who choose to have vasectomy to protect the health of their wife.

Some here challenge such a decision, saying such men are not "real men."  I say a "real man" will have a vasectomy when a pregnancy would threaten the life of his wife.

You guys crack me up!

You jump to conclusions and slam Gef without even knowing the truth.

Do you have any idea how many vasectomies are performed a year?  It's very very commen and gives the guy great sex--much better than with a condom.

But the major reason is for medical reasons dealing with the woman-like she will die if she gets pregnant or she carries a gene that will result in deformed babies.

We need to back off and not jump to conclusions here....

But i guess it makes some guys feel like "real men" to rant and rave about how only a fool would do this...

Hmmm..... who is the fool here?

[jb]

Michael,

Your context is not so clear.  If I had snipped that bit out of a larger paragraph and made something new of it, that would be "out of context", but I didn't, so to me the context is clear the way I read it.  The way you wrote that was to express the opinion that many men choose to have their virility voluntarily terminated so that they can have fun without a condom.  How else should I read that one line paragraph statement?  I honestly think that's a really stupid statement, but you did write it.

You went on in the next paragraph to discuss possible health problems, but the one I quoted is in another paragraph. When you make a stand alone comment like that, it's hard to miss-state the context when someone quotes virtually the entirety of the statement.  I think I learned that in about the 9th grade.  You either have a very poor education, or none at all.

Getting to the heart of it however, Michael, and this is the nuts and bolts of it, it seems of late I have to double check every dotted "i", and every crossed "t", run spell check 4 times, and review any comment I make thrice over, because you and your little band of cohorts are out there just laying in the weeds waiting for me to say something you can pounce on.  You are very often guilty of contextual miss-statements, and you delight in it.  I try not to let it bother me too much, otherwise I'd flame your arse to a crisp.  Frankly I'm a little tired of it, and I know the majority of the board's readership is not fooled.  Based on the PM feedback I get from the other members I know what they think of you.

[Michelangelo]

Here's what you said that is inaccurate, again...

Your context is not so clear.  If I had snipped that bit out of a larger paragraph and made something new of it, that would be "out of context", but I didn't, so to me the context is clear the way I read it. 

JB, you don't understand context.  A paragraph does not give context.  At RWD, a thread is like a chapter in a book, and only by reading the chapter can you see the context.  In this case, the context of the thread is certainly vasectomy in marriage.  No one at any time in this thread suggested a single man should have a vasectomy to have pregnancy proof sex.  Nor did I.  I was simply supporting reasons a vasectomy is a viable option in marriage, and that a side benefit is better sex (and the context is with your wife).  And since you took a quote from this thread on vasectomy and stuck it in a thread on sex, you gave the impression that was what I was saying.  Given that I opened that thread with the statement that men should use a condom during sex with FSU women, the quote is not consistent with that thread either.  But, if you truly did not comprehend this vasectomy thread and that the discussion was about vasectomy as birth control during marriage, ask the writer what he meant.  That would be me.  My answer--I was talking about vasectomy as a form of birth control for married couples, and I listed two benefits--protection from a dangerous pregnancy for medical reasons, and better sex for the couple because they do not have to use condoms for birth control anymore.

Thus, Readers of this thread know the context of this thread and that it deals with vasectomy in marriage.

By moving one quote out of context to a strand on sex, you misrepresented what I wrote.

Readers can judge for themselves.

As for me, I'm done posting on this topic.

Dr. Michelangelo

[Bruno]

Based on the PM feedback I get from the other members I know what they think of you.

This is very low attack... never forget that all the other members who have never PM you about Michael have maybe a other opinion...

But on these topic, since i am enough old minded, something like vasectomy is not considered by me like a "normal" contraception method... but i have seek and find stastistic for America and it seem a very current method of contraception in USA... some state reach a monstruous number where almost 30% of men use the contraception method...

And like JB, people who have propose to lie are egoistic people who cannot really be in love with a lady... a love relation imply honesty and trust.

About the original poster, i don't care why he have make a vasectomy, it is his personal business... and i find great that he have inform his potential wife... now that she have accept the situation is her own business, her how choice.

[jb]

As for me, I'm done posting on this topic.
Dr. Michelangelo

Do you promise?  Cross your heart and hope to die?  Scouts honor?  Suddenly you are a Dr.??  How droll.  Doctor of what, pray tell?

I speak only for myself, but you, "the ultimate kid in the candy store" RW searcher,,the man past 50, who has racked his way through God only knows how many young women and sex tour trips, have finally got on my last nerve with your line of BS,,, Doctor~!   We've been reading your many trip reports for over a year where you are extraordinarily obsessed with simply gettin' some.  Should I go and quote from your latest sexcapade?  I.e.,

She is 31 and more mature than the 24 year old girls I had been dating.  Her English is excellent and we have had many in-depth discussion and some intense fights and recoveries!  She is very sweet and upbeat and positive about life. And she is beautiful as well...with blond hair and big blue eyes and full rich lips.

Gee, I'm so impressed.  Sounds more like a Harlequin Romance novella.

In my view, and one shared by others, you are just a dirty old man with a fat wallet.  From this moment on I shall be watching with all the same vigor, every post, every word, every syllable you type, from here on out.  I shall hold you as personally responsible for every utterance, to the same standard you have imposed on me.  Frankly I don't think you'll wear very well...

Bruno,

The attack, as you call it, was no less low than that which has been leveled at me, even by yourself.  I am in PM contact with most of the membership here who count, the married men, those who are most aware of what it takes to make a relationship work, if you feel left out it's because you don't have 1-5 years of successful, happy, no divorce on the horizon, marriage to a RW going for you.  Most of us think you have the potential to join the group, but you are not quite there yet.  Just because you don't have an opinion doesn't mean the rest of us haven't formed one.

[TheHorseman]

I feel a little left out.  Not only did jb pass me up in his list of rebuttal comments.  Now I find out I can join the rank of "Good ole Married Boy" until I find a RW who will actually leave Russia to marry me in the States.... Though I thought I had with the last one.  (Her mother is a Peach)

I have had a little cultural diversity in my last marriage of 17 yrs To a German woman.  Granted she was only half German.... Her mother was German, her father was an idiot.  I know it doesn't count that "The club requirement" are that she be Russian.... I am still working on it.

I do have a 21 yr old Russian girl living with me at the moment. Just for the summer and NO I am not sleeping with her.  But learning her behavior is giving me a lot of insight.

But I count the days until I can join the Club with jb.  For the time being I am thinking of moving my computer to the bathroom so I can read his post in a more fitting environment.

Will