What to write?

[treadmilldude]

Anyways, I would like to hear the opinions of Ed2TallJones, Viking, Gator, Boethius, AKMike, Maxx2, Fathertime and some other very intelligent Vets of this board on whether or not the Pros outweigh the Cons of meeting and ultimately marrying a FSU Woman with a Child. Or, if there has already been a thread instituted in the past regarding the efficacy of choosing to marry a FSU woman with a child versus without a child, please steer me in the direction of that (surely) excellent thread.   

[dragonkid]

What people need to understand and accept is people are different. They have preferences, and that should be respected. If you don't mind raising someone else's kid, good for you. Trench has his own view on what is right for him, he should go for it, as at the end that is what will make him happy.

[Nightwish]

What people need to understand and accept is people are different. They have preferences, and that should be respected. If you don't mind raising someone else's kid, good for you. Trench has his own view on what is right for him, he should go for it, as at the end that is what will make him happy.

Wow the very first mature thing I seen this DK write, and I agree 100%

[Boethius]

Anyways, I would like to hear the opinions of Ed2TallJones, Viking, Gator, Boethius, AKMike, Maxx2, Fathertime and some other very intelligent Vets of this board on whether or not the Pros outweigh the Cons of meeting and ultimately marrying a FSU Woman with a Child. Or, if there has already been a thread instituted in the past regarding the efficacy of choosing to marry a FSU woman with a child versus without a child, please steer me in the direction of that (surely) excellent thread.

I can't answer this, as I am female, married very young to a FSUM, and all our children are our common children.

Of the men you listed, only 2tall and Gator have stepchildren who were minors when they married, and their children were already grown when they married.  Another member who doesn't come here much, Vaughn, raised a stepdaughter, and he did discuss conflicts between his stepdaughter and his daughters.  They are all now grown, and everything worked out.  There was another poster here years ago who divorced his Russian wife solely because of conflict with her then very young daughter (he had children as well, and it was the interaction between her daughter and his children that was the source of the conflict).  Muzh was raising his children when he married, and he and his UW have a common child.  Jumper also had a minor child during his marriage to his ex FSUW.  I think BC had a child when he married, but I don't think he had stepchildren.

My own opinion is, I think if a man is childless, or has grown children, a woman with children is fine.   I say this because I believe once you have your own children, your first responsibility as a parent is to your children. 

There have been plenty of stories here through the years of issues for men who had minor children of their own when they married.  Blended families tend to have issues at the best of times.  Add in a foreign culture, and it can be very difficult, I assume.  Most of the time, those stories have conflict.  That's understandable.  The only thing my husband and I ever argued about was disciplining our children, and they are our common children, no step parenting involved.  Children are manipulative, and most will try to divide and conquer for what they perceive is their own benefit.  I'm sure others disagree with me, but that's my take.

[treadmilldude]

Have you ever heard of this little word called "Why" Dragonkid? "why"? It is a cool word, you should look it up sometime. Obviously, Trenchcoat's preference is to meet, fall in love with and marry a FSU woman who does not have a child. Sure, I get that. He is not alone, nor is his preference in the least bit atypical. Probably more men in this search look for a FSU woman without a child than who does have a child. My question is "Why"? There are many components as to his choice of "Why" he is looking for a woman without a kid, probably over a hundred different reasons "Why" he is searching for a woman without a child. Me attempting to ascertain Trenchcoat's reasons for not wanting a child is not indicative of a lack of respect for his choice, DragonKid. So please calm down.

We all know you are very encouraging of men, including Surfsports, to attempt a 1,200 year age gap with FSUW. That is not very cool on your part Dragon Kid, and when you become a Father, undoubtedly your views on frighteningly large age gaps, as it pertains to the men your Daughter chooses to date and.....uhummm you know.....will change.

Boethius, as always, your wisdom is very much appreciated. I find myself learning as much, if not more, from you than I learn from Gator. And I always thought Gator was "The Man". What is up with that?

[dragonkid]

Me attempting to ascertain Trenchcoat's reasons for not wanting a child is not indicative of a lack of respect for his choice,

dear god, you asked him why and tried to persuade him to your beliefs. If someone came to me, and said they prefer x, i would help them get x, even if i prefered y. People that are the happiest in life, do the same, they respect other peoples preferences, and don't try a steer people to accept their own.

We all know you are very encouraging of men, including Surfsports, to attempt a 1,200 year age gap with FSUW. That is not very cool on your part Dragon Kid, and when you become a Father, undoubtedly your views on frighteningly large age gaps, as it pertains to the men your Daughter chooses to date and.....uhummm you know.....will change.

First time i was here i laughed at the older guys attempted to break age gaps, if someone actually has the attraction to hold down a woman like that, then it is none of my business. Vast majority of older men are just physically out of it, but some can still go for it. He isn't holding a gun to the womans head, she can walk away, we don't know what he looks like, he could be a greek god, with the face of a hollywood actor for all we know. A woman may prefer him physically over me, or any other younger guy, we just don't know.

, and when you become a Father, undoubtedly your views on frighteningly large age gaps, as it pertains to the men your Daughter chooses to date and.....uhummm you know.....will change.

I talked this over with other women, i want to supply my kids with the option to decide what they want to do in life. Allow them to choose their way in life, give them the tools to make choices. i am a big believer that you can't make people be happy, you can only supply them with the tools to make choices for them to be happy.

[Patagonie]

Trench, i've talked to more women than most on here, skyped with them, really tried to understand their previous relationships. I am a type of guy that is curious, and constantly trying to piece things together. I don't accept answers like "russian men are ugly", i push till a woman really opens up. Tells me everything, i constantly remind them i won't judge, i listen carefully to what they have to say, as long as it is the truth.

Guys on here need to realise, FSUM completely destroy us in terms of understanding a woman's heart. Key difference between us and them is, they understand how deep russian women are emotionally, i was told this by my ex, and some others that dated westerners. i am a complete romantic. Believe me on that, women i previously dated, loved that side about me, how deep i was, i touched women like no other man would, made them feel unique and special, but with her she knew i didn't compare well against most FSUM. We are very logical, we take our time when dating, making sure she is perfect etc, not FSUM, rather than talk about love, they are irrational, they are not scared to drop what they are doing to be with their love. I know a guy who dropped his job in france to go back to ukraine, ukrainain man. They prove their love with actions, we say we love a woman, but take years till we propose, countless trips, and throw in the iron clad prenup.

We western men just don't compare well. We can either live in denial, or choose to change. For me i choose to do the latter, be deep, on your profile talk about what you really want. Read an Indian guys profile, i find it funny at times, but thinking now, it seems like they have the right mind set, they talk about love, what their first date would be like.

These women need a strong man, but a man that also has an affectionate side. You need to be different from the rest of western men.I plan on reworking my whole profile, for now i am trying to discover myself. Look at this




Second time i tried to keep my distance



she is persistent over me, i tried to keep my distance, yet she still tries,spoke to her for a few months now. my ex was the same and others, i put her on my backup list, but she didn't let me. I won't meet this girl, as physically she isn't my type, i know what i want.I am going to spain and germany in two weeks, if i met the right girl, i would rather go to russia. i am 100% confident if i apply myself correctly, i can get what i want, no excuses, you can get a beautiful and a woman that loves you deeply, if you do all you can. Like morty said, "you can meet a lingerie model that can cook", but not if you do the same thing everyone else is doing. I never understood why some guys said they can't get laid in fsu, roosh made a video saying he couldn't get anything for 3 months, these guys lost their soul maybe one of the most valuable things you need to attract a woman (more than your wallet).

Be illogical, be brave, show that you are strong, and deep at the same time. If not, be lazy, and land yourself a woman that isn't that great.

Good point here.
Roosh never really succeed in FSU because he don't want to give anything, he just want to GET. And almost all FSUW detect those guys very quickly, he is a butcher, nothing else.
Keep it emotional that's the key of the success, especially with FSUW. A lot of western men are frozen inside because they have lost the fundamental exchange between maleness and feminity. And FSUM are very likely performing better than us.

[dragonkid]

Good point here.
Roosh never really succeed in FSU because he don't want to give anything, he just want to GET. And almost all FSUW detect those guys very quickly, he is a butcher, nothing else.
Keep it emotional that's the key of the success, especially with FSUW. A lot of western men are frozen inside because they have lost the fundamental exchange between maleness and feminity. And FSUM are very likely performing better than us.

very true, FSUW can sense it, it is such an interesting topic that fascinates me. it opens the door to something much better than "western game". An example i could use is taking a trip to visit your special one even just for the weekend as a suprise. fsuw used to tell me that if a man really loved them, he would jump on the plane just even it is just to see them for 2 days. For us guys it is stupid, we rather wait till business is sorted, spend a while.

These small irrational things may seem stupid, but a woman would value it, and reward you 10x more in bed  I am trying to understand why so many of these marriages fail, they blame the lack of communication, but from my experience you can communicate fine even with minimal English. The answer could be the lack of understanding on how to be a husband that a FSUW expects you to be.

i remember first finding out about roosh, he talked about getting out his passport, and stroking his beard with it to attract fsuw, it was a bad first impression for me. The more i watched him, the more i understood i didn't want to be like him. You can just tell by listening to him, he doesn't know how to truly respect a woman, sure us guys run our mouths on here, and among ourselves, but he honestly believes in what he says. That is the scary thing, he has no logic.

[Gator]

Anyways, I would like to hear the opinions of Ed2TallJones, Viking, Gator, Boethius, AKMike, Maxx2, Fathertime and some other very intelligent Vets of this board on whether or not the Pros outweigh the Cons of meeting and ultimately marrying a FSU Woman with a Child.

Good question, and a very important, serious one.  Boethius gave you excellent advice.  I will add a few comments about marrying a woman who already has a child. 

It is imperative that you love kids and family life and that you recognize the serious responsibility of being a father.  Most of the children of single FSUW do not have a good relationship with their father.   They likely have been surrounded by women:  the mother, the grandmother, and aunts.  They crave a father.  I took my stepson fishing soon after he arrived, just he and I.  On the ride back he told me in limited English how he always wanted a father to take him fishing.   

A child means being ever mindful if they are little.  It means patiently answering inane questions.  It means enjoying the hours and hours at their soccer games, music recitals and cheerleading practices.  It means helping with homework and later helping with key decisions that you wife  will not understand fully because America is strange to her.   It means taking vacations to places you may never have selected.   It means restrained tolerance of teenagers and their hormones, their need to test limits, etc.  It means never, as in NEVER regretting the significant money you spend on them, forgoing some things you wanted for yourself.  . 

You must know that you are truly wired this way,  and not just assume it is the case.  Either you raised kids in a prior marriage or you grew up with brothers and sisters.   To have a baby and watch her develop is not the same as a confirmed bachelor suddenly having an active youngster in his home, a youngster who is not leaving.   

In the dating stage, I believe you must spend more time dating a woman with a child because you want to make sure the relationship is bonding on all fronts.   The mother during dating may not let you get close because she fears you could leave and this would upset her child.

My wife welcomed the opportunities I made to spend with her son.  He had just turned 8 when we first met.  He and I have become close.  He is now 17 with a warm, endearing personality.   Her daughter was 18 and already 22 when she arrived in the US.  We never became really close; nevertheless, she appreciates what I have done for her, and has said such many times.  She came on a student visa before her mother and brother arrived, and I took her to a friend's Thanksgiving gathering.  As we went around the table expressing our thoughts, she announced she was thankful for how happy her mother is with me. 

It is such moments that make  family life my greatest source of joy. It was that way when I was a child, when I raised my two sons, and now with my Russian family.   

[ML]

. . . we don't know what he looks like, he could be a greek god, with the face of a hollywood actor for all we know.

Hey, I don't remember sending you my picture.

[ML]

Just one little tidbit comes to mind re children of the FSUW and the WM.

With three different women that I spent quite a bit of time with including several encounters with their children; the three remarked something along the line of: 

"When my child(ren) know of differences of opinion or even conflicts between you and I . . . they take your side!!"

Don't know if that would have continued to exist if the children and I later lived together full-time.

[dragonkid]

Hey, I don't remember sending you my picture.

The photos taken way before my time?  Black and white photos did you justice, sadly now people can see you a lot more clearly.

[treadmilldude]

Boethius and Gator, thank both of you very much for all of your wonderful advice. This is great information to know. I will comment on both of your posts later on today (tonight) when I have more time.

Gator, I read in a post of yours you are a Vietnam Vet. I want to say thank you for your patriotism and service to my country. I love our military and love military men and women. My Dad is a retired full bird Colonel in the US Army Reserves. He was in the active US Army for 2 years, then served in the Reserves for many years and made it to Colonel. My Dad would also want to say "Thank you" for your service if he was here, Gator.

Again, I will comment on both of your posts later on today (tonight) when I get more time. Thank you so much. Where else but RWD can one attain such great knowledge? 

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat, why is a FSU woman with a child a deal breaker for you? By you allowing that to be a dealbreaker, you are severely limiting yourself on the number of wonderful, loving FSU women who would make a wonderful Wife to you. I am extremely curious to know why a woman with a child is a deal breaker for you. I have actively sought out on Mamba ONLY women who already have children for so many different reasons. I just think I will have more success with a woman that already has a Child than one who is childless. Plus it greatly speeds up the process of me becoming a Dad. Finally, giving a FSU child with only a single parent a second parent, establishing, in effect a 2-parent household, affords that child so many more opportunities in life, such a greater chance to be a success in so many different avenues of life - economically, academically, socially and culturally....I mean the list goes on and on of the benefits to a child of having 2 parents as opposed to only one parent.

That may be so, when I started of this search again about 6 months ago, I thought that I would have to accept a single mother. However, before long it became apparent that there were plenty of single women without a child. In the UK as no doubt in the US this would be a harder find and often a reason for it. Essentially I've just always liked the idea of a genetic bond with the child and I guess it makes sense to give a RW a chance to have one than one that already has. I'm not keen on paying for someone else's sex life and cleaning up after them, but that said of course some single mothers it can work with very well relationship wise. I can see why some men might prefer them, their need for a husband/father for child, need to rely on a man, potential seriousness to commit to a relationship, economic reasons. On the other hand if a guy gets the wrong single mother he may just be used (as a mule), used economically then dropped, used to help bring up child then dropped. If a woman has more than one child then having a child of your own may become burdensome depending on circumstance. It all depends on loyalty and trust and I think I would be too uneasy about trusting a single mother, plus of course there is the extra economic burden of the child from the get go - its a serious business taking on someone else's child. 

[Gator]

Trenchcoat,

It all depends on how you are wired.   Your words, "I thought that I would have to accept a single mother"  says enough.  If you don't want to be a stepfather,  please don't even think about it  because no good would come from it.   Yes, a child carries a large financial resposibility, and the emotional responsibility is even greater.   

There are plenty of women without children.  I wish you the best in finding love with one of them. 

[Gator]

 

Gator, I read in a post of yours you are a Vietnam Vet. I want to say thank you for your patriotism and service to my country. I love our military and love military men and women.

You are welcome, but it was nothing special.  I was a lieutenant in the US Army Corps of Engineers.  Never fired my weapon, worked on construction projects, and somehow rewarded a Bronze Star Medal (for service, not valor). 

I enjoyed going into the jungle, the cities and villages.  The Vietnamese fascinated me.    It was my introduction to the world, infecting me with a travel bug that still remains.

My Dad is a retired full bird Colonel in the US Army Reserves. He was in the active US Army for 2 years, then served in the Reserves for many years and made it to Colonel. My Dad would also want to say "Thank you" for your service if he was here, Gator.

I bet your Dad was a really good father.   

[Trenchcoat]

Ideal things perfect girl must have:

(Obviously not looking for perfection, I'm happy without her being perfect but makes sense to put up a few ideas)

1) Large Breasts - now some of you may think I'm being crude and it would not be a deal breaker but I think large breasts are good for a woman to have (say about a C cup nicely shaped boobs) just a more womanly trait I think. Also, if ever it amounted to having children having a daughter that follow the mother with big boobs would be nice for her to have also.

2) Non-Materialistic - just can't stand women who put a 'thing' as all important and who just go with someone for the money.

3) Trusting - Who wouldn't or is there really a relationship there if she doesn't value it.

4). Easy going personality - doesn't have to agree with everything or be completely bland but a girl that is too vocal, emotional, aggressive personality doesn't do it for me.

5) Common sense - she does not have to be particularly intelligent and not expecting her not to make mistakes, but someone who is a complete donut is just hard work for me - a little help from the girl helping herself is good for me.

6) Socially Skilled - I'm not expecting here to be the life of the party here but someone that is socially inept/awkward to the point that they have zero social skills is not something I would want to pass onto any children. I can tolerate a reasonable amount, I'm not great on the social front either but I find there are women out there that are totally oblivious on this and never seem to improve. I think too many men accept a woman and take her on with this problem where men with a lot less problems on this front have a great difficulty finding someone (UK & US).

That's a brief run down what I can think of I think, just to give you all an idea. 

[Gator]

Ideal things perfect girl must have...
That's a brief run down what I can think of I think, just to give you all an idea.

1) Large Breasts - The rest of your list is reasonable, yet starting your list with this suggests you are not serious.  By the way, this attribute is not always evident in the photos, and in such cases, what do you do?   That's a joke.    If you chase the slender women as most men do, you likely will have to accept something less than your standard.   

2) Non-Materialistic - The very materialistic RW will likely dump you early so don't worry.  LOL Seriously, RW in general do not have a hippie attitude, and would never be happy with Bobby McGee.  Most are materialistic about what they wear, especially on their feet. 

3) Trusting - You will have to earn their trust, and it takes time.  I say this because RW tend to be skeptical, a product of centuries of catastrophes, secrecy, etc. as well as possibly their own experiences with a man who did not treat them well.     

4). Easy going personality - I met many.  It takes time to determine this, and based on my mistakes something not always discernible from phone calls. 

5) Common sense - RW tend to be survivors and by necessity are clever.  Woops, that is not the same as common sense.  The fact that 80% of RW can not read a map suggests some aspects of common sense are not common. 

6) Socially Skilled - How will you know unless you spend a lot of time with them?    RW tend to be polite and that is a good start, yet I found most RW in public to be reserved,  reticent to open up, and reluctant to interact.   There were a few exceptions, and one seemed like a cheerleader.  Maybe you should look for someone with a job in sales.   

[dragonkid]

Trench, russian women are not necessarily materialistic, but they don't want to worry about bills, they like to eat out, buy some decent clothes, go out spending a bit. The materialistic ones like gator said, will dump you before you dump them.

I hope  Boethius doesn't mind me using her name, but i was talking to her about "mules".  A lot of guys are used as mules, some of them don't even know it,or even find out after their fsuw leaves. doesn't happen just after green card comes in the post. Some women study, get a decent job, and poof they vanish. I asked  Boethius about some of the women i talked to, some of which like my ex, had no problems with me living in Russia with her, in matter of fact preferred it. These women won't use you as a mule, yes their hidden agenda is that you are more financially stable than their local men, but that is as far as it goes. If you like, try suggesting the idea to a girl you meet, that you will live with her in her country, say you will teach english, just try and gauge what her reaction is like. Of course you are not going to move down to fsu, but gauging her reaction will speak volumes.

[BillyB]

1) Large Breasts - The rest of your list is reasonable, yet starting your list with this suggests you are not serious.  By the way, this attribute is not always evident in the photos, and in such cases, what do you do?   That's a joke.    If you chase the slender women as most men do, you likely will have to accept something less than your standard.   

I wouldn't say Trenchcoat is not serious or even shallow. What turns each man on may be different. There are certain things men need to see from a woman to get it up. If he can't get a hard on from a woman with breasts smaller than C cups, then he's not doing her or himself any favors getting in a relationship with her.

[ML]

I wouldn't say Trenchcoat is not serious or even shallow. What turns each man on may be different. There are certain things men need to see from a woman to get it up. If he can't get a hard on from a woman with breasts smaller than C cups, then he's not doing her or himself any favors getting in a relationship with her.

Billy is right.  Porker women in USA are always complaining that men shouldn't rule them out because they have a lot of other good qualities.

Probably true . . . but I can't perform with a porker no matter what her other virtues are.

Maybe when I can no longer perform with any woman . . . then I could snuggle up with a porker.

[msmobyone]

Trench, russian women are not necessarily materialistic, but they don't want to worry about bills, they like to eat out, buy some decent clothes, go out spending a bit. The materialistic ones like gator said, will dump you before you dump them.

I hope  Boethius doesn't mind me using her name, but i was talking to her about "mules".  A lot of guys are used as mules, some of them don't even know it,or even find out after their fsuw leaves. doesn't happen just after green card comes in the post. Some women study, get a decent job, and poof they vanish. I asked  Boethius about some of the women i talked to, some of which like my ex, had no problems with me living in Russia with her, in matter of fact preferred it. These women won't use you as a mule, yes their hidden agenda is that you are more financially stable than their local men, but that is as far as it goes. If you like, try suggesting the idea to a girl you meet, that you will live with her in her country, say you will teach english, just try and gauge what her reaction is like. Of course you are not going to move down to fsu, but gauging her reaction will speak volumes.

So many generalisations and misleading advice ... you constantly offer 'help'  that belies your age and lack of time in the FSU. May be it's a facet of the fact you are dealing with young women - who also may not even know what they want.

My advice is not to 'test' women that interest you, unless you are face to face and understand each other, perfectly.

You do realise that woman and men can change their opinions on subjects like whereto live, etc., - especially as the relationship blooms or wanes

Once again... be yourself ..

[ML]

Once again... be yourself ..

Where would the fun be in that ??

[msmobyone]

Where would the fun be in that ??

Being oneself attracts the woman most comparable  - meeting each others needs, surely ? 

Two old fogies having FUN

[dragonkid]

May be it's a facet of the fact you are dealing with young women - who also may not even know what they want.

My advice is not to 'test' women that interest you, unless you are face to face and understand each other, perfectly.

You do realise that woman and men can change their opinions on subjects like whereto live, etc., - especially as the relationship blooms or wanes

Once again... be yourself ..

If a woman is under 35 i guess she will have the desire to go abroad, and create a new life with or without her partner. You lot dating more mature women are playing a different game, generally the women can't find a partner at their age in fsu, so i see why you lot prefer more mature women. Just thinking about it now, seems like more mature women are the most genuine ones, struggling to find a partner , 35+ ones. People get confused into thinking it is only my age bracket of women that are the most insincere, a number of the divorces on here from what i heard was from women 25+. It can happen at any age, but my guess is 35+ seems safe, at that age men in fsu don't want them. 

You do realise that woman and men can change their opinions on subjects like whereto live, etc., - especially as the relationship blooms or wanes

Yes, but if she is okay with the idea of trench living in fsu with her, living an average life, then trench will know what her expectations on the future are. Is it to live a average life? Or She could just use him as a mule, till she establishes herself in the west? Happens a lot, posters here coming back after a few years and their marriage is over after she is financially stable.

When i said he should test her, i mean just gauge, see what she says, and how she reacts in person. It is very hard for us to admit, but some fsuw have been training to find a western man like it is the olympics. They know exactly what to say and how to behave to make the man feel good, and defenseless. I have no need for my hand to be licked, or be stroked and told how special i am. An example of this is this couple



My senses are screaming when i am watching this, her eyes, facial expression, way she touches the guy, it seems very off to me. It would work great if the guy is a newbie and is very gullible.

I had lots of women that did this with me, delete their profile straight after talking to me, telling me how special i am etc. how much they want me, sure they had no problems with me living in fsu with them. It still didn't make their words genuine. Go in blindly , get killed.