Kid or no kid

[ML]

You are all wrong.

I have done multivariate discriminate analysis of this subject and the results are very clear.

[jone]

Had an interesting discussion with a lady from Odessa the other day on the topic of children.  She has a son who is nine years old.  We were talking because she is interested in a friend of mine. 

In this situation, the father is present but now has another family.  He is on a ship for most of the month, but when he is home he does not have time to spend time with this son since he now has kids with his new wife.  He would be more than happy to sign any paperwork that would result in him being relieved of responsibility and the possibility of a better life for his son.

But, here is another topic that should be discussed.  Children, especially male children, are many times spoiled rotten by their FSU mothers.  When I was talking to this woman, who is quite beautiful (she reminds me of Reese Witherspoon) she mentioned that her son was on holiday with her mother.  Then she said something that put my radar up and caused me to back off on an endorsement.  She said that she may need to go to the Black Sea resort where they were because her son was being naughty.

To me that is a red flag.  Once a male child gets past the age of kindergarden, without a father presence, things can get nasty on the behavior side.  I haven't seen this so much from girl children, but I have seen it occasionally from male children.

The best way to approach this is to spend time with both the mother and child and see what the interaction is.

[Gator]

Are you mad because trench insulted your "real diamond", "russian flower"?

What Trenchcaost said is not an insult towards women with children.  We all know that he, the same as you, has little experience, so his opinions are based on reading what others have to say plus his imagination and deduction.   Trenchcoat (and others who may be thinking the same) need to have erroneous concepts corrected.  This endeavor is difficult enough without adding mistaken preconceptions.

You gave an unfair blow on "desperate" women

I met them.  One feels pity, yet when I started my research a man named JB gave excellent advice about not being a white knight.  I listened.  JB sugar coated nothing.  I wonder what he would say about you.  Seriously, if you, Trenchcoat, and others are still in the learning phase, I suggest you enter your search words in RWD's search function and type JB as author.

but don't try and mislead people, women whatever their financial background have something to gain, some are just better at masking it and fooling gullible western men.

Know your woman.

If you wanted a woman with nothing to gain, why didn't you stick to american women? Or foreign women in the US? Plenty of foreigners there that have nothing to gain.

Everybody has something to gain.

By traveling to Russia, I found my Russian flower.  I am a happy man today and love her.  She tells me the same, not every day, but frequent enough to know it is real.  Some days I don't deserve to be told such.    I have no regrets whatsoever.  I never think about what could have been if only I had_________________________.  [Reminiscing does not count]

I wish that you, dragonkid, one day feel the same. 

[Boethius]

I would disagree with the statement upthread that said "and the only resolution will be in the courts, which could go either way." As mentioned in their system anything can be bought. The resolution in this case will go to the highest bidder. Dad's not going to ante up and out bid your gift to the judge in the case. That may sound like drama to you but it's just business in Ukraine. In my case Dad was no were to be found. We still had to go to court and have his parental rights legally removed. That still required a "gift" ( I think it cost me $300) to get the appropriate signatures. If you get to that point you'll just need to find someone who knows their way around the local court system.

This is not universal in Ukraine.  And it certainly is not the case in their appellate courts.  So, a risk is taken in resolving custody battles in court.  It could resolve in favour of the mother, particularly if the father has not been involved in the child's life, but that is not always the case, even if one party has the cash to grease hands.

[Boethius]

Feed into my recent thread on what to do if the girls English is not good, some helpful advice on there on the situation. Basically, its a fair amount of time and money invested in English lessons along the way and perhaps a harder time assimilating into the new culture, all in all a harder task. I think children, particularly the more younger adapt more easily, they taken to pick languages up more quickly and have more time to devout to learning the language over a number of years and in informal situations. As Adults will rarely get much chance to learn out of the classroom for extended periods.

Personally, I really do think women with kids are a far easier lay, there are guys that go over there and the women is already talking sex from just messaging, sometimes without even skyping and then get laid within the first few hours. I think that their plight is so miserably poor that they are willing to do this to avoid being passed over as they will have few chances to get out otherwise. From what I see some women with kids get fed up of becoming unofficial prostitutes to many a sexpat as few have the intention of marrying them and just want an easy lay.

That said, there are men that are serious about these women but the stakes are considerably higher for them, there is the risk that the women just wants 'in' to their country and is using them as a 'mule' for a green card or similar. There then is the divorce risk, should a woman divorce with a child, even if it was not yours you may still be deemed liable as having taken on that responsibility by a court and taken for all its worth, i.e women gets your home in its entirety signed over to her, etc - well in the UK anyway, US probably somewhat similar. So the man has to think carefully about whether this is really a good idea, many later get cold feet for good reason and decide it is not. I think you would really need to find a woman who feels very vulnerable that she needs a man to lean upon, avoid the more independent minded woman that seem too strong, stand too well/cope easily on their own feet - they are more likely to see you as prey.

Why do you assume that women don't want sex?  Women have sexual needs and desires.  But the attitude toward women is different in the FSU.  A woman with a child is not, in very general terms, attractive to FSUM.  Add to that the levels of alcoholism, and women with children there don't have many options. 

[dragonkid]

Why do you assume that women don't want sex?  Women have sexual needs and desires.  But the attitude toward women is different in the FSU.  A woman with a child is not, in very general terms, attractive to FSUM.  Add to that the levels of alcoholism, and women with children there don't have many options.

There you have it......

[ML]

Why do you assume that women don't want sex? 

Simple empirical research will prove this to any man who investigates.

I once stood on the street and asked the first 20 women who came past if they wanted to have sex.

All 20 said NO.

There you have it.

The only good result was that I got free room and board that night.

[dragonkid]

Simple empirical research will prove this to any man who investigates.

I once stood on the street and asked the first 20 women who came past if they wanted to have sex.

All 20 said NO.

There you have it.

The only good result was that I got free room and board that night.

Did you follow the 3.53 second rule? You got to look a girl up and down, call her ugly in 3.53 secs, gives you a mysterious aura, she feels intrigued, you then degrade her further. Women love this! you make her feel worthless, till she has no self respect and comes to terms that you are the best she is ever going to get. 

[wallm]

geez...i opened this thread asking about kids. Somehow it has to turn into sex. I do enjoy ML's humor but still....

[Brianinaz]

Not every Western Man feels comfortable doing this, being the Bad Guy. The girl and her 6 year-old Daughter Veronica, whom I thought was going to be mine and only mine until the end of time....when her ex, Veronica's Dad, suddenly reappeared into the picture after accidentally being told about me by the woman's Mom, he was more than 2 years behind on child support and had only seen his little Girl a total of about 5 times in the last 3 years. He was a total deadbeat Dad for the last 3 1/2 years, and Olya (girl I thought was going to be mine) still despises him to this day. But once he found out about me, he got immensely jealous, and in the span of about 3 weeks, he went from being more than 2 years behind on alimony, to suddenly completely caught up. And he hired 2 lawyers to take her to court so he could get every weekend visitation rights to see his little girl. Olya was freaking out and distraught and begged for my help as she did not want Veronica to have anything to do with her Dad. She mentioned that her Ex is not a wealthy man (his salary there in Gomel, Belarus is about $300 per month after tax), neither are his family of means. She mentioned to me she thought if I showed up to her ex's home when I came to visit, and offered him maybe $3,000 US, he would probably take the $3,000 and sign over the papers relinquishing his parental rights to his Daughter. I thought about this for all of about 2 seconds. I am a good man, I have morals, I have a conscience. I was not going to take that little girl away from her Dad. So I told Olya No. And that was the end of Olya and I.

I do not particularly like or respect your advice, Brianinaz. ""I would disagree with the statement upthread that said "and the only resolution will be in the courts, which could go either way." As mentioned in their system anything can be bought. The resolution in this case will go to the highest bidder. Dad's not going to ante up and out bid your gift to the judge in the case. That may sound like drama to you but it's just business in Ukraine."" There is no honor in removing a child from her parent's country, simply by using the economic leverage you have as a Western Man relative to a FSU Man making $300 per month. I find no honor in that. I would not recommend any guys on this board who are thinking of pursuing a FSU woman with a child, to resort to this tactic if push comes to shove and the ex husband must be dealt with. In that case, give the girl and her Child a Hug and a kiss on the cheek, wish them both the best, and move on and find a different woman with a child whose Father will put up no resistance to signing the papers allowing the child to leave for your Western country.

Buying off the child's Biological Father is awfully sleazy, Brianinaz.

Treadmilldude,

I have been a member here since 2006 and have accumulated a total of 187 posts. There's a reason for the low number of posts.

I really don't have the time or energy to engage in arguments with people in a forum. I am grateful for the information I have gotten from this and other forums that helped me along my way and occasionally post something I think may benefit others.

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. What I wrote was "As for the issue of the father; if it were me and the father was involved with the child (which is really pretty uncommon in Ukraine) I'd walk away. You're a dad. How would you have felt if someone took your son to the other side of the planet?" So, I don't know how you came up with I was "advising" anyone to take a kid away from his/her father.

What I did say is what you quoted: "I would disagree with the statement upthread that said "and the only resolution will be in the courts, which could go either way." As mentioned in their system anything can be bought. The resolution in this case will go to the highest bidder. Dad's not going to ante up and out bid your gift to the judge in the case. That may sound like drama to you but it's just business in Ukraine."

Since you didn't understand what I wrote I will try to clarify it for you. Boethius wrote  "and the only resolution will be in the courts, which could go either way.". I disagree with that statement and I wrote: "The resolution in this case will go to the highest bidder. Dad's not going to ante up and out bid your gift to the judge in the case."

I was not advocating anyone go to court to remove a dad's parental rights through the corrupt Ukrainian legal system. I was just stating if it get's there the decision goes to the highest bidder. Not an recommendation for action but a statement of relative fact.

For others who wonder why I state "The resolution in this case will go to the highest bidder. ... but it's just business in Ukraine." my wife is a Ukrainian lawyer. The stories are endless and haven't changed much with the "new Ukraine".
 
So please, before you attempt to trash someone out take a minute to read what's written before you type

Have a nice day and good luck to you.

[LAman]

geez...i opened this thread asking about kids. Somehow it has to turn into sex. I do enjoy ML's humor but still....

well, how do you think the kids came about???

[msmobyone]

Did you follow the 3.53 second rule? You got to look a girl up and down, call her ugly in 3.53 secs, gives you a mysterious aura, she feels intrigued, you then degrade her further. Women love this! you make her feel worthless, till she has no self respect and comes to terms that you are the best she is ever going to get.

I see you are still posting for effect rather than bringing anything remotely useful to this endeavour

[BC]

I see you are still posting for effect rather than bringing anything remotely useful to this endeavour

He is describing interaction with women of low self esteem and a host of daddy issues.  Women can also manipulate men in a similar fashion by playing on similar defects, acting coy or aloof etc.  In general I believe those with similar issues attract each other.  The only qualities I have found that seem to indicate potential in initial interaction is how long eye contact is maintained, hand/hair fiddling and relative posture, mainly who turns towards who.

Back to the main question kid or no kid, I think it's a natural instinct to find a new missing piece for the puzzle, but that women with kids will mostly be looking at the qualities of a potential partner, keeping in mind and trying to avoid errors of the past.  Yes women with kids may be more open to a long term relationship but likely much more critical with choices and taking into account her responsibilities to her children.  I would hesitate with a woman that jumps right in with a long term relationship in mind.   Just IMHO and FWIW.

[LAman]

He is describing interaction with women of low self esteem and a host of daddy issues.  Women can also manipulate men in a similar fashion by playing on similar defects, acting coy or aloof etc.  In general I believe those with similar issues attract each other.  The only qualities I have found that seem to indicate potential in initial interaction is how long eye contact is maintained, hand/hair fiddling and relative posture, mainly who turns towards who.

Back to the main question kid or no kid, I think it's a natural instinct to find a new missing piece for the puzzle, but that women with kids will mostly be looking at the qualities of a potential partner, keeping in mind and trying to avoid errors of the past.  Yes women with kids may be more open to a long term relationship but likely much more critical with choices and taking into account her responsibilities to her children.  I would hesitate with a woman that jumps right in with a long term relationship in mind.   Just IMHO and FWIW.

While a women's age does affects things, I think a women with a child( not kid) is more open minded than a women with no children. Open minded as in, potential mate having children, his age, his looks as long as he can support a family. I have seen many times a women with no children say they want someone also with no children. As a women ages, I think she becomes a little more open to the idea of step-children.

Back at home a female friend had a gorgeous sister that was divorced but no children. I asked about her interest in me through the female friend. I was told that I had 'baggage'( i had children). The sister wanted to find mate that didn't have children. I must say, this sister, was NOT a caring type mother. As it turns out, a few years later, she married a guy with 3 'younger' children AND they had one of their own. 4 children!!! I laugh every time I see this sister of my friend, I tease her quite often, I ask her how is the 'baggage'????

[Boethius]

For others who wonder why I state "The resolution in this case will go to the highest bidder. ... but it's just business in Ukraine." my wife is a Ukrainian lawyer. The stories are endless and haven't changed much with the "new Ukraine".

While I would not disagree that corruption is endemic in the Ukrainian justice system, you cannot advise someone that paying a bribe will work.  It won't in every case.

[dragonkid]

I will keep it short and simple.
1) We all know that your wife benefited from bringing both of her kids to the US, play it however you want, people are polite, they just don't call you out on your bs.
2) me and Trench are not looking for women twice our age who have two kids, so your "russian flower", wouldn't be somebody we would want. So save the whole speech about you hope we can have what you have, because dear god, i don't want a woman twice my age with kids the same age as me.
3) You made a claim earlier that i was being used a mule, as you may already know i am planning on living in russia for a few years, with the hopes of settling in permanently. I tell all the women i talk to this, and funnily enough.... They still want me, so i guess there goes one of your daft theories.

[wallm]

Poms sure are high strung......

[Boethius]

He's not high strung.  He's just young.  Gator is old enough to be his grandfather.

[dragonkid]

Poms sure are high strung......

gator got hurt when trench dug into women with kids , i agree with half of what Trench said, but not fully, more what Boethius said. He then decides to dig into women that don't make as much as his wife, he wanted to make it sound like his wife gained nothing at all. end of the day, his wife is much older, has 2 kids, she doesn't have many options, as lets say a woman in her early 20's, who could marry a guy 3x's her age, but unlike his wife they have options.





desperate women these days......

[Gator]

ORIGINAL POST DELETED

I am deleting this and subsequent posts made to Dragonkid.  I would delete the posts above but time has expired.

I attempted to share  my experiences with RW, and address some misconceptions about women with children, desperate women, etc.  I took the risk of referencing my wife to explain my opinions, even though I have seen Dragonkid insult other wives such as Calmissile's.  DK's responses to me seemed to be escalating again towards the darkside, even prompting Treadmilldude, a polite gentleman,  to be so offended as to say something not so polite. 

I don't want to  get my marriage on the RWD debating stage, so I will cease communicating with DK and delete my post. Having made my own mistakes in romancing RW, there is no guarantee that my opinion would be helpful.   It best for him to make his own mistakes and learn from them. 

Brings back a memory.  There were many homeless dogs in Iran, called jube sag (gutter dog).  Instead of capturing the dogs, the government would simply drive by, shoot the dogs, and collect the carcasses for disposal.  I am a dog lover.  So once I went out with some table scraps to feed them.  They growled at me severely, so I just threw the food down and ran into my flat.  Never tried that again.  Besides, the little food I would have given would not have changed anything.