communication question

[jone]

True, after you have spent time together, been intimate, met the family, ......These two have never met, so maybe she was not ready to drop a more pressing issue to have a conversation with him.  However, she does owe him an explanation.  In the future, circumstances may compel him to miss a call she was expecting. 

He should answer her last communication with:  "I did not take offence.  Please recognize I have many business demands for my limited time.  You also have demands.  We both are busy, and maybe we should not talk every day.   I am available Friday at 8:00 your time.  Hope to hear from you.  Let me know."

If she calls, use it as an opportunity to discuss time management and commitment.   Going WOVO requires time management and commitment.

All good Gator.  But I can tell you that if it were me, she would have ben Sh&tcanned.  There are so many interested and interesting women out there.  I would never invest myself into a woman who interacts this way.

[Gator]

Jone, you are a real man.     

I am a weenie, and would listen to her explanation.  It better be good.  If she says "an ol'  friend called me and I forgot about time" I would reply "thank you for the honesty,  but I  want a serious woman.  paka." 

[Boethius]

Did he give her some attitude for missing that call?  It almost sounds like he did for her to respond that way.   The "real man" comment is a red flag if he just logged off (without an attitude) after she missed the call.

My husband (who is a "real man"), would have said after that "Well then, go find a real man." 


It would have been the end of communication.  It is manipulation, and that would continue in the future.

[Boethius]

On time in general in Ukraine-- I have been to literally many 100's of meetings-- with girls,friends,business etc .I am very punctual and plan time to get to any meeting- and would say I was there at appointed time 95% of the the time.On the other hand-I would guess that only 10% of people I was meeting were on time( a fair % there not too far away) .It is/was not unusual to have someone arrive 30 minutes late-- and even 1 hour. Often there were texts or calls doing updates--but also nothing.
I have left venue only to get a call"where are you"? !!
I am sure others have experience of "Ukraine time "!!

I have never, ever had anyone arrive late in Ukraine, unless they were on a train from another city.  Not even in business meetings, but most of those were in government settings.

[2tallbill]

This has happened twice this week. He does not think she has been respectful of his time and is considering not visiting her or flat out ending things between them.

It happened twice. That means he didn't find out what happened the first time and
get it ironed out. In my opinion that means that he allowed himself to be a door mat
and he should end it. There is no future in this relationship in my opinion.

Some general rules
1. When in doubt boot 'em out.
2. Don't allow questions to go unanswered. (or unasked)
3. Don't excuse bad behavior to cultural differences. 

Udachi!


Bill

[Larry1]

All good Gator.  But I can tell you that if it were me, she would have ben Sh&tcanned.  There are so many interested and interesting women out there.  I would never invest myself into a woman who interacts this way.

A few years ago I was talking with a RW. We talked on skype video. We were talking about a WOVO trip to meet. One evening while we were on skype she got a call on her phone. she told me that she would be right back with me. At least an hour later she returned and told me it was late and she needed to go to sleep, no explanation at all. I was not happy. The very next night the exact same thing happened. I messaged her that I would not put up with that and told her that our communication was over. she replied that, "I don't need a judger in my life".

[2tallbill]

"I don't need a judger in my life".

That's exactly what both of you needed. You two weren't a good fit. You made
a good judgment call and stood by it.

[LiveFromUkraine]

My husband (who is a "real man"), would have said after that "Well then, go find a real man." 


It would have been the end of communication.  It is manipulation, and that would continue in the future.

It doesn't surprise me, he's a smart man.  I wonder how many times a western man chalked it up to "cultural differences".   At least this came out quickly and the guy didn't have to wait for a visit to see it.
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

A few years ago I was talking with a RW. We talked on skype video. We were talking about a WOVO trip to meet. One evening while we were on skype she got a call on her phone. she told me that she would be right back with me. At least an hour later she returned and told me it was late and she needed to go to sleep, no explanation at all. I was not happy. The very next night the exact same thing happened. I messaged her that I would not put up with that and told her that our communication was over. she replied that, "I don't need a judger in my life".

In my youth, I would have responded the same way.  Now that I'm older, I wouldn't have bothered shooting her a message.  I find it's just better to move on even though a part of you wants to send that message. 


Who needs a judger anyway.   

[BillyB]

All of these messages were from the girl, after the guy had logged off skype:

[12:24:06 PM] and i alittle offence on you-why u dissapeared so quickly yesterday?
[1:14:44 PM] are u here?
[1:14:57 PM] i am ready to talk
[1:41:53 PM] u know-real man will not take offense on woman of such trifle

She still wants to know him. I wouldn't take offense to the "real man" comment in this situation. Real men don't pout over a missed appointment. Although the "real man" talk can be manipulative, she hasn't used it enough to judge she's a manipulative type of person. She has shown the ability to apologize. In another message she made an appointment with the guy at 10PM. Let us know if she makes that appointment Larry.

There are times I get employees that make excuses why they're late. I don't dwell on whether or not their excuses are valid or they're lying to me. What matter to me is reliability. If they are missing a lot, they are gone. Once or twice shouldn't get anybody worked up.

I wouldn't get upset over this incident. After two weeks of communication, a woman would just be an internet friend with me. I would be in the process of communicating with many women and dating at home with plenty of options. I would try to make the next Skype appointment and not even bring up the past or show anger. The woman would see I'm a real man that incidences like this don't bother me but once it is established I don't have an anger management problem, she should make a better effort to be on time otherwise I'll give my attention to a woman that wants it more.

I'm glad I didn't do Skype when I was searching. I just called women when I had the time. No waiting for appointments. Sometimes I'd catch the women during busy moments such as when they're totally nude taking a bath. I would offer to call later but if they're really happy I called, they'll tell me to stay on the line. I suggest the guy get the girl's number. If she is not willing to give out her phone number, she's not worth a visit.

[JayH]

All of these messages were from the girl, after the guy had logged off skype:

[12:24:06 PM] and i alittle offence on you-why u dissapeared so quickly yesterday?
[1:14:44 PM] are u here?
[1:14:57 PM] i am ready to talk
[1:41:53 PM] u know-real man will not take offense on woman of such trifle

She is giving him a justified slap!!

She still wants to know him. I wouldn't take offense to the "real man" comment in this situation. Real men don't pout over a missed appointment.

I wouldn't get upset over this incident. After two weeks of communication, a woman would just be an internet friend with me.

You got it right BB

[Boethius]

She is giving him a justified slap!!

No she isn't. 

[southernX]

hard to make a call just yet imo

she may well tends to be a princess who is totally used to just doing what she wants and ''others ''will put up with it as she cant see any problem with her behaviour

or she may be a busy lady with a difficult job/boss/family & home life that is hard to juggle
her employer and job would be a no 1 issue for her survival so you would need to know more before you cut and run yet ,

the communication is at an early stage , you are not really committed in any way to her &,she owes you nothing so given she has been putting a lot of effort to meet with consistently and she has demonstrated her willingness to apologise when she felt she let you down I would  keep it going along with other contacts and in time it will show its true nature all by itself , so be patient at this stage imo until you have more information/experiences  to make an informed decision on

what harm can continued contact do ??  just don't get too invested too quickly here or you will come across as demanding ,wimpy and not secure or reliable   

SX

[jone]

I have found, that in my life, if I stand up for who I am and what I want, people respect that.  But the corallary to that rule is that if something presents itself which is undesirable, you may terminate things too early.  All in all, I can tell that I have not made this mistake many times. 

For those FSUW apologists, I can tell you that this type of behavior will go on and on with this woman.  She is single for a reason. 

Again I say that if a woman is really into exploring you as a mate, she will not be prickly on Skype or any other communication.  If she is, do not pass go.  Do not collect $200.00.  It ain't happening.

[BillyB]

I can tell you that this type of behavior will go on and on with this woman.  She is single for a reason. 

Being single doesn't mean a person has issues. I had fun dating and some friends wondered why I even got married.

Too early to judge the woman's behavior. I do know she, the guy, every man and woman in this endeavor have the right to discover the flaws of the other person before making a lifetime commitment. It's difficult enough to make these discoveries with the compressed time frame we have. We can't date each other face to face easily but there are other ways to discover these flaws. Some ways come in the form of a test. Women tend to do this more than men. Men are worse at discovering flaws so they tend to make catastrophic mistakes proposing to women who aren't marriage material. I'd certainly like to know how a woman would handle less than desirable situations.

If the recent behavior of this woman will go on and on as you predict, it doesn't hurt the guy to delay his visit until he figures that is the case. He has a 10PM meeting coming up with the lady. He should give no hint the recent events bother him. So if she feels he has no problem with her tardiness and continues to be tardy, he should move on. Then again, she may appreciate he has a calm demeanor and she may start giving him total respect and the full attention that a man she loves deserves.

[Boethius]

It doesn't surprise me, he's a smart man.  I wonder how many times a western man chalked it up to "cultural differences".   At least this came out quickly and the guy didn't have to wait for a visit to see it.

He just came home from work, and I asked him.    I got his answer 100%.  That's what happens when you've been married like. a gazillion years.

He did though, also laugh and said "I like it when they use that term 'real man'."   He explained that it belongs to "the lowest levels of that society".  It is always used as a provocation.  I asked if he could illustrate this, and he said these are the words of the types of women who hang out in bars and provoke (real) men to fight over them. 

[Faux Pas]

The very first time within that 2 week period that she did not skype at the set aside time, I would have moved on. Sure there are no commitments after 2 weeks, no harm no foul but, her not making the prearranged skype meet the onus would be on her to contact me and apologize. If I missed the meeting I would have been contacting her. He's a weenie sho'nuff. Don't excuse bad behavior. Boe's hubby has it right

[JayH]

Being single doesn't mean a person has issues. I had fun dating and some friends wondered why I even got married.

Too early to judge the woman's behavior. I do know she, the guy, every man and woman in this endeavor have the right to discover the flaws of the other person before making a lifetime commitment. It's difficult enough to make these discoveries with the compressed time frame we have. We can't date each other face to face easily but there are other ways to discover these flaws. Some ways come in the form of a test. Women tend to do this more than men. Men are worse at discovering flaws so they tend to make catastrophic mistakes proposing to women who aren't marriage material. I'd certainly like to know how a woman would handle less than desirable situations.

If the recent behavior of this woman will go on and on as you predict, it doesn't hurt the guy to delay his visit until he figures that is the case. He has a 10PM meeting coming up with the lady. He should give no hint the recent events bother him. So if she feels he has no problem with her tardiness and continues to be tardy, he should move on. Then again, she may appreciate he has a calm demeanor and she may start giving him total respect and the full attention that a man she loves deserves.

BB is on fire with reading it right here !   :clapping:Go with the flow

[ML]

Although I didn't hear it much, I just recall that in Russia the concept of 'real woman' is also used.

As I understood it, a 'real woman' was something like a princess (in her mind at least), would do no manual tasks, would not work, and would be completely taken care of by a man.

A status that some (many) women would like to aspire to, but knew it was unlikely.

As an example, I once described such an actual woman that I knew about to a second woman . . . and the second woman responded . . . "it would be great to be a real woman."

[BillyB]

"I like it when they use that term 'real man'."   He explained that it belongs to "the lowest levels of that society".  It is always used as a provocation.

Culture changes. I seen women say they're looking for a real man in profiles. A real man can be defined as confident, strong, courageous, tolerant, forgiving, etc... I doubt they're saying that to be manipulative or to provoke. I and many others used to think finding a partner on the internet was for losers. Cultural views on that have changed. Yes, some women use the term "real man" for manipulation reasons but not all the time. When we see a man who is weak, we tell them to "man up". They tell weak men to be "real men" as their version to man up. Some men deserve to be criticized. You should hear what people are called on construction sights if they're being less than a man. If some of you are crying now, you won't handle working in construction.

I would communicate with lots of women but I would not dismiss a woman over two missed appointments. Her tardiness will be noted though and I still have lots of options. It's not the end of the world if the guy continues to communicate with this one woman. It will take him time to develop anything with anybody new at this point. He can continue to talk to this woman while writing new people. People here are focusing on the bad with this woman and failed to recognize the good. She has apologized which is a rare trait among FSU women in high demand. I'm not ready to call what she done is bad. If the guy screams at her for missing an appointment, I'll congratulate her for doing a good job discovering him and not wasting any more time talking and meeting with him.

[LiveFromUkraine]

He just came home from work, and I asked him.    I got his answer 100%.  That's what happens when you've been married like. a gazillion years.  

It's like the two of you don't even need to talk.  You just sit there and nod.   

He did though, also laugh and said "I like it when they use that term 'real man'."   He explained that it belongs to "the lowest levels of that society".  It is always used as a provocation.  I asked if he could illustrate this, and he said these are the words of the types of women who hang out in bars and provoke (real) men to fight over them.

I found that really interesting.  Another reason to not allow behavior like that slide. 

[Larry1]

If the guy screams at her for missing an appointment, I'll congratulate her for doing a good job discovering him and not wasting any more time talking and meeting with him.

Point me to the post where the man screams at her for missing an appointment.

[BillyB]

Point me to the post where the man screams at her for missing an appointment.

As soon as it's written, that's when I'll write it. That's why I used "If" to start the sentence.

[Gator]

There is a difference between slamming the door in her face and taking control of the agenda.  Larry, this friend did not take control. 

A real man controls the agenda.  He names a time to talk when it is convenient for him and should be convenient for her.     

Having to leave his office and sit in a car is not convenient to him.  And it creates stress if he has to sit there and wait.  Maybe he can do some work in his car, maybe not, but it is not the best environment.  And it would feel too weird to me while talking. 

If she can not talk at a convenient time during the week, then pick a weekend time.  A long talk during a stress-free weekend period should be enough.  During inconvenient times, one can always text if there is a question, a comment, etc.   

If she misses a scheduled session, she better have a good explanation.   Do it twice, delete her contact info and send her inquiries to spam. 

[southernX]

Culture changes. I seen women say they're looking for a real man in profiles. A real man can be defined as confident, strong, courageous, tolerant, forgiving, etc... I doubt they're saying that to be manipulative or to provoke. I and many others used to think finding a partner on the internet was for losers. Cultural views on that have changed. Yes, some women use the term "real man" for manipulation reasons but not all the time. When we see a man who is weak, we tell them to "man up". They tell weak men to be "real men" as their version to man up. Some men deserve to be criticized. You should hear what people are called on construction sights if they're being less than a man. If some of you are crying now, you won't handle working in construction.

I would communicate with lots of women but I would not dismiss a woman over two missed appointments. Her tardiness will be noted though and I still have lots of options. It's not the end of the world if the guy continues to communicate with this one woman. It will take him time to develop anything with anybody new at this point. He can continue to talk to this woman while writing new people. People here are focusing on the bad with this woman and failed to recognize the good. She has apologized which is a rare trait among FSU women in high demand. I'm not ready to call what she done is bad. If the guy screams at her for missing an appointment, I'll congratulate her for doing a good job discovering him and not wasting any more time talking and meeting with him.

billy I would agree with this above 

we are getting all this relationship relayed  third hand , way too many pieces of information missing here at this stage to call her as  a write off yet imo

I would not be booking a ticket that's for sure , buy I would keep the contact with her up all the while adding others

if the guy is so arrogant or impatient he cant wait or invest a few hours of his time  over a few weeks of his life to talk with her further ??how the hell does he think he will swing this into success anyway ??

being a real man , means calm , patient , polite , & thinking through his responses & her situation ,  yes be strong ,maintain your dignity & respect yourself , however this lady at this point has not crossed the line imo

SX