Why Ukraine ?

[krimster2]

in Russia, EVERYTHING is the government

[mhr7]

in Russia, EVERYTHING is the government

Yeah, and I'm the one with no credibility.

[krimster2]

all major media in Russia is owned by the Russian government, 70% of all employment is Russian government, these are called FACTS!!
turn on Russian TV any time of the day or night and listen to non-stop propaganda, FACTS

[krimster2]

"Yeah, and I'm the one with no credibility."

nice of you to admit to it

[mhr7]

all major media in Russia is owned by the Russian government, 70% of all employment is Russian government, these are called FACTS!!
turn on Russian TV any time of the day or night and listen to non-stop propaganda, FACTS

I don't and most Russians I know are very aware of the propaganda. They have the internet (with very little censorship, gay porn for instance) and many have traveled to the West, some several times.

You said Russians are anti-Western, now you're changing the subject. If you want to hate Russia, be my guest. I don't.

[Boethius]

http://www.voanews.com/a/russia-levada-poll-us-ukraine-turkey/3360581.html


http://www.dahrendorf-forum.eu/europe-russia-blog-series-anti-western-sentiment-in-russia-between-propaganda-and-autosuggestion/

[ML]

All you Russian lovers, I think you missed the point of Krimster's first post which was:

" Turn on a Russian TV set, since all TV stations are owned and operated by the Kremlin, there is non-stop anti-Western propaganda, does this make you feel comfortable? do you feel comfortable marrying someone who has been immersed in this propaganda and giving this person total control over your financial future? "

What he is doing is giving a glimpse of the FUTURE outlook of Russians toward Americans and westerns in general.

Others who have posted riposte to him are giving your current and past experience regarding Russian people and living in Russia.

He is showing you what is bound to happen in the FUTURE  to ordinary people who are bombarded constantly with the negativity.

[mhr7]

All you Russian lovers, I think you missed the point of Krimster's first post which was:

" Turn on a Russian TV set, since all TV stations are owned and operated by the Kremlin, there is non-stop anti-Western propaganda, does this make you feel comfortable? do you feel comfortable marrying someone who has been immersed in this propaganda and giving this person total control over your financial future? "

What he is doing is giving a glimpse of the FUTURE outlook of Russians toward Americans and westerns in general.

Others who have posted riposte to him are giving your current and past experience regarding Russian people and living in Russia.

He is showing you what is bound to happen in the FUTURE  to ordinary people who are bombarded constantly with the negativity.

The point we took issue with is that Russians hate Western culture, an utterly false statement.

[krimster2]

thanks ML!

I found one particular Russian TV show really interesting, the main guest of the show was a young Russian guy who was a scammer of the type often mentioned on this board, he was asked by the show’s host if he felt bad about what he did, i.e. scamming “love-sick" Western guys out of their money, he replied, “no he didn’t feel bad about it at all, if Westerners were so stupid that they could be scammed, then it was his “duty” to scam them because he was so much smarter than them”, the audience clapped with their approval, this is the attitude there.  it’s all anecdotal, but here’s someone else’s experience that coincides exactly with my experience:

http://newslanc.com/is-anti-americanism-really-growing-in-russia/

except that because I’m a man two of my encounters ended up getting physical with a bunch of young drunks looking for cheap entertainment and to impress their girlfriends,

[Boethius]

But that attitude is common in Ukraine, too.

[krimster2]

"The point we took issue with is that Russians hate Western culture, an utterly false statement."

The point is that the Russian government is doing everything possible that it can to manipulate the Russian people into hating Western culture", and this effort is starting to show results, and this statement is factual and be easily proven, (and of course you know it to be correct)

Yes, Bo, I know about Ukrainian scammers to!  My wife's family taught me ALL ABOUT THEM!

I've repeated this before, but many years ago when I was buying Real Estate in Ukraine, I had to spend time in the property registration office, some of the biggest dramas I have ever seen in my life happened there!  It would go like this, some poor old baboshka dies, and her children rush to the property registration office trying to be the first to register baboshka's apartment before the other siblings can get there, but they all rush there at the same time!  I saw sisters slugging each other in the hallway, over the ownership papers, good times!

[ML]

The point we took issue with is that Russians hate Western culture, an utterly false statement.

You still missed the point.

You are talking about past and current.

The focus for those interested in hooking up with a Russian should be on the FUTURE.

[krimster2]

"I don't and most Russians I know are very aware of the propaganda."

this is my point!  but you claim it has no effect, and I very much disagree!  there is a segment of the Russian population that this VERY much appeals to, and while you're defending them, one day one of them may just decide to kick you ass because of it!

"gay porn for instance"

...not that there's anything wrong with that!

[mhr7]

You still missed the point.

You are talking about past and current.

The focus for those interested in hooking up with a Russian should be on the FUTURE.

I didn't miss the point at all. I made no statement regarding looking for a wife in Russia in the future during this recent conversation. But the past and current are good starting points to judge the future and currently, Russia is a great place to look for a wife. As many members here will attest. Also, currently, Russia's hatred of America is down 10% from last year, according to Levada.

If you want to get scammed by everyone you meet, go to Ukraine.

[krimster2]

"Also, currently, Russia's hatred of America is down 10% from last year, according to Levada."

now I'm confused, I thought you said this hatred didn't exist, but now it's decreased by 10%?  Good that you mentioned Levada, they are now a "foreign group" and have been shut down!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37278649

Thanks for helping me make my point about anti-westernism!!

"If you want to get scammed by everyone you meet, go to Ukraine." 

What!  A pro-Russian having anti-Ukrainian sentiments, shocked I am to hear of this!

[mhr7]

"I don't and most Russians I know are very aware of the propaganda."

this is my point!  but you claim it has no effect, and I very much disagree!  there is a segment of the Russian population that this VERY much appeals to, and while you're defending them, one day one of them may just decide to kick you ass because of it!

"gay porn for instance"

...not that there's anything wrong with that!

My point is that I have had no problems, I have been asked to speak to classes in public schools, I've been interviewed on the radio and I've had taxi drivers take to their homes to share a shot of home-made hooch with them. Russians aren't stupid they know how fu*ked up the government is and they have access to media world wide. Russian media isn't their only choice.

 I know 2 other Americans and 3 Brits who live in the surrounding area and they haven't had any issues either. I make no defense of the government in any way, shape or form.

I'm 6'2, weigh 255 lbs and can bench press my body weight over a dozen times. Getting my ass kick isn't a big concern. The gym is a great place to meet Russian women.

[mhr7]

"Also, currently, Russia's hatred of America is down 10% from last year, according to Levada."

now I'm confused, I thought you said this hatred didn't exist, but now it's decreased by 10%?  Good that you mentioned Levada, they are now a "foreign group" and have been shut down!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37278649

Thanks for helping me make my point about anti-westernism!!

"If you want to get scammed by everyone you meet, go to Ukraine." 

What!  A pro-Russian having anti-Ukrainian sentiments, shocked I am to hear of this!

Did you go off your ritalin? I never said Russians were pro-America I said they weren't anti-Western. Hating America and hating Americans are 2 totally different things. If Levada was shut down, it probably means the government didn't like the results they were getting. Last I saw Putin's ratings were only in the 70s. Guess he didn't like that.

I used to work in Ukraine (Poltava) and I've been there 9 times since. I'm not anti-Ukrainian, just honest.

[krimster2]

“ ...have been asked to speak to classes in public schools, I've been interviewed on the radio and I've had taxi drivers take to their homes to share a shot of home-made hooch with them. “

been there, done that many times as well, and much, much more before I was married! (my first trip to the FSU was in 1996)  and when I was married and my family and I moved to Sevastopol to expand my business, my oldest daughter and I taught English there, and I served on her school board as well as the parents association of her school, and operated the largest software development company in Crimea at the time called “TopSoft”, and so what?  was still a victim of anti-American hooliganism and more than once, and saw other American fall victim as well (with two I know of needing hospitalization).

“Hating America and hating Americans are 2 totally different things”

no they aren’t!  how can you possibly separate one from the other, where’s the exact boundary between the two?   

“I'm 6'2, weigh 255 lbs and can bench press my body weight over a dozen times.”

I’m 6‘3“ and weigh 225, what does that have to do with anything?

if you still think there’s no anti-western sentiment or anti-American sentiment in Russia, let’s do the following experiment,  whatever city you live in, take an American flag and walk up and down the largest main “ulitsa” there, please tell me how long it is until you’re either arrested or attacked by locals, you know what would happen if you did that in Kyiv?  Nothing! Nothing at all, that’s the difference, and as a result my choice would be Kyiv over Moscow any day!

[krimster2]

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/askold-s-lozynskyj-elections-in-america-and-ukrainian-american-issues-418377.html


here 'ya go -  an American flag being displayed in Ukraine, why don't you do that in Russia and tell me how it goes???

[CaptB]

ML,


Quote: "The focus for those interested in hooking-up with a Russian should be on the future"


So are you saying after 13 years of marriage to an RW.....I should send her back......because future propaganda.......may make her go "coo coo"
When you get that shipment of crystal ball in........please send me one. In the meantime........I think I will "keep her" :-)


Capt B

[krimster2]

“so are you saying after 13 years of marriage to an RW.....I should send her back......because future propaganda.......may make her go "coo coo"”

seriously? that’s your take on this?

when you marry someone from the FSU, the bonds you create aren’t just between you and her.  she has family, she has friends, the two of you may have children together (I have 2), she will still have some form of relationship with her home country’s government.  if you marry someone from Russia it’s very possible that some of her friends/family may succumb to the influence of Russian propaganda, in my wife’s case this is true, both for the majority of her family as well as friends (she’s Crimean).  if it happens, this negative opinion may cause some friction in your relationship with her, if you spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars in visas to the Russian government, this may be an issue for you, so FOR GUYS JUST STARTING OUT,  if choose Ukraine instead of Russia, you will completely avoid these issues, (unless Russia changes the borders again!) that's the point that's being made here.

[tfcrew]

  if you spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars in visas to the Russian government, this may be an issue for you

Thousands? Why would it cost that much?

[krimster2]

depends on how many times you go, if you and or your US children decide to take trips to Russia, you will need many visas over the years

[ML]

ML,

Quote: "The focus for those interested in hooking-up with a Russian should on the future"

So are you saying after 13 years of marriage to an RW.....I should send her back......because future propaganda.......may make her go "coo coo"
When you get that shipment of crystal ball in........please send me one. In the meantime........I think I will "keep her" :-)  Capt B

I hate to be like  others and get in an extended back and forth with a person, but . . .

You are showing poor reading comprehension or are just being totally dishonest in your interpretation.

"interested in hooking up with."

Does this honestly sound to you like it applies to someone you are already married to ?

[krimster2]

hey capn' feel the love of America by the Russian people!



who do these Russians think they are, NFL football players??!!