New here looking to get educated on Ukrainian Women

[dbarto590]

Hi, I've been thinking of dating a Ukrainian woman  for about 12 years now.  I get the feeling that the "Russian Bride" agencies aren't the way to go.  I'd like to get educated on a realistic view of what it takes to do so independently.  Your constructive advice is welcomed.

Dan

[mhr7]

Hi, I've been thinking of dating a Ukrainian woman  for about 12 years now.  I get the feeling that the "Russian Bride" agencies aren't the way to go.  I'd like to get educated on a realistic view of what it takes to do so independently.  Your constructive advice is welcomed.

Dan

12 years? That's a lot of thinking. No, agencies (with very few exceptions) are not the way to go. There are many free or low cost sites on the internet that are useful in the search. I've not used any of them personally but I imagine others will chime in shortly with advice.

Welcome to the forum!

[dbarto590]

Thank you!

[LAman]

Hi, I've been thinking of dating a Ukrainian woman  for about 12 years now. 

Why?  12 years?

[dbarto590]

Didn't really know where to start.  Like I said, I get the feeling "Russian Bride" sites aren't the way to go, and didn't really see anywhere else to turn for credible information until now.  That's why I'm here.

[Trenchcoat]

Didn't really know where to start.  Like I said, I get the feeling "Russian Bride" sites aren't the way to go, and didn't really see anywhere else to turn for credible information until now.  That's why I'm here.

I personally would not have stood on the sidelines for 12 years, but seeing that you have done you are where you are at now so will have to deal with that.

I too am not keen on Online Dating RW sites but I think initially until you work out a better strategy they are the easiest most direct route to getting involved and scouting out the territory. Many girls online can at least give you a load of info (RWD here too also) and give you an idea of what you could encounter. A trip is also a good idea in gaining valuable experience in the field that you cannot gain from just messaging girls on dating sites and will help you develop your own personal strategy that suits you. So as others have said try free/low cost dating sites like Mamba, you'll be up against a fair amount of competition there so plenty of messaging with lowish reply rate (still better than Match I think though).

My own personal view is that although dating sites work out for some I think for many they are not the way to go, particularly long term, I may be proved wrong in this but developing other strategies as you get more experience and can aim yourself better and know what perhaps is more likely to work for you may be worth pursuing.

Again, my own opinion is that for various reasons all online RW dating sites are a mugs game in terms of an effective long term way to finding a girl you are truely into and vice versa, some make it work but even on the better sites there ares girls with dubious intentions, long searches trying to find a girl with chemistry which you may not be able to tell till you get to see here in FSU and slogging it out in a field dominated by keyboard romeos.

To my mind, after getting some initial experience getting away from this delivered to your PC online RW dating approach is the way to go. For a guy serious about finding an RW I just find it too naive to have as a method to solely rely on to turn up a true love, it happens but I don't think the odds are high enough to justify solely using it if it is your only method.

Again, what method(s) you end up using will depend on you, your experience, who you are, interests, etc. There is loads of great advice from the others on here and I have benefited a lot from their advice already as a result I feel and hopefully should be better placed for my next shot at finding an RW.   

[dbarto590]

Thanks for the advice.  Everyone studies from the sidelines initially.  Some of us just take a little longer to study. 

Yes, it sounds like an initial trip to the Ukraine would be a good idea to get my foot in the door.  Anyone with experience in the Ukraine?...advice for a first-timer on where to go, and how to skirt around any scams?  I'm also looking for good, up-to-date publications that might give valuable info.

[Boethius]

It is Ukraine.  Just Ukraine.  Not "the Ukraine".

[Larry1]

Anyone with experience in the Ukraine?...advice for a first-timer on where to go, and how to skirt around any scams?  I'm also looking for good, up-to-date publications that might give valuable info.

There is an entire part of the forum devoted to scams and scammers:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=11.0

But I think the most important piece of advice is to avoid sending money to someone you don't know.

[BillyB]

how to skirt around any scams?

Be smarter than scammers. Scammers can be individuals or businesses. In the starting out section we have a sticky thread with recommended agencies. Do lots of reading to get educated. Once you get into a relationship with a lady, you won't have lots of time to make a decision on marriage. You hesitate like you did when it comes to dating, you will get dumped.

[dbarto590]

Larry1 Thanks for the advice on scammers.  BillyB thanks for the advice on scammers and hesitation.  However, don't misconstrue those 12 years as "hesitation".  It's a period to prevent hesitation when the time comes.

[JayH]

  Welcome

Before you get asked by 10 different people -- a little information can save you answering the same questions repeatedly--
eg   What age are you?
What age do you imagine you are looking for?
Where do you live-what type of environment etc?
Do you have children? Divorce/s?
Have you any current contact with fsuw? Either in US or elsewhere?
Why do you think Ukrainian women may suit you? Or be interested in you?
Have you ever been in the FSU?  EU? Anywhere?

[2tallbill]

My advice is to read until your eyes bleed.

Here are some threads to get started on

RWD 'Ten Commandments'
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1740.0

The free E-book
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=47

Pursuing FSUW 101. The procedures and the dating websites
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

Then read all the stickies, faq's and trip reports

My trip report is here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0


When you read you will have questions, either use the search function or come
back here and ask your questions. When you ask questions you will get a lot of
replies. Some will be excellent advice and others will be more dubious. Above all
don't get offended. You are relatively anonymous here and having a fairly thick
skin will help you in this adventure anyway. Your job is to sift through the advice
and use the good stuff and ignore the rest.

Udachi!


Bill

[tfcrew]

Thanks for the advice. 

Mine? Book a tour.

[Trenchcoat]

Thanks for the advice.  Everyone studies from the sidelines initially.  Some of us just take a little longer to study. 

Yes, it sounds like an initial trip to the Ukraine would be a good idea to get my foot in the door.  Anyone with experience in the Ukraine?...advice for a first-timer on where to go, and how to skirt around any scams?  I'm also looking for good, up-to-date publications that might give valuable info.

If you mean travel guide books few if any decent up to date ones are available, you could check amazon. Alternatively, webisites, wikipedia and asking here about the more down to earth day to day aspect on a city are good.

This year I went to two cities in the Ukraine, as you can see from my thread in the trip report section. Kiev the Capital is interesting, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are with a woman like I was that is solid enough to stick with you for at least a day to a few days, it can come across a little impenetrable at first glance (so I was glad I was with someone, the city centre is nice enough though).

Odessa I feel would be a better choice if unaccustomed to the Ukraine as a first city, it is far more European in build, plus it has a beach so if all else fails! Its a far more instantly fun city than Kiev that is more business centred. Odessa has a lot of bars to just drink in, Kiev bars are hard to find the restaurants are mostly couple/family/group sit down restaurants. Odessa also has restaurants, but way more outside sit down area ones, the shopping district is where to find them and this area of the city will feels like the sort of place many Americans would tend to hang out in other European touristy city.

For both cities get a place to stay in the city centre, you may prefer hotel initially before moving to an apartment to get accustomed to the area and have helpful advice from the receptionists. For both I would also suggest going in the summer, that is when they will both be most accessible with stuff to do and ready for tourists.

Going as a tourist for a short stay is not a bad idea to get accustomed to the culture, though is your from the US and not loaded you might want to go straight in with lining up girl(s) to see there. Just remember to consider what you'll do there just in case girl does not show (most do though) or stay with you long.

If you've been preparing for 12 years then you should be more than ready. If you've learnt Russian, built up your wealth/earnings, etc then it no doubt all helps. However, girls in FSU tend to be a bit direct and many will expect you to be decisive and will not wait for a guy for real long periods.

Most scams should be easy to pick up, whenever they involve you paying for anything other than reasonable costs for dining with the girl. If girl online starts talking about accidents that have happened to laptops, family/relatives, incidents of any kind that entail her suggesting an action on your part then be real cautious. Other than that scams are nothing to worry about, if your aware they exist then you should be fine on that front without having to get obsessed.

What's your direction your thinking in terms of meeting women over there? From all your sideline learning 

[GatoMoon]

Hi, I've been thinking of dating a Ukrainian woman  for about 12 years now.

Welcome back to real world.  Hope the prison has been treating you well.     Good luck ......

[Morty]

Hi

My advice:

Stay off the PPL / chat sites like Hot Russian brides, Russian love match, anastasiadate. The sheer volume of pay per chat, fakes and so on means it's like pearl diving in a sewer. Also the women are photoshopped to death, in reality they look no better than the girls on the free sites. If you want to see what they look like in reality go to Vk.com

Get her on a video call asap. No ifs no buts. It she makes excuses then drop her. Every girl has an iPhone these days and wifi is everywhere so she has no reason not to Skype or FaceTime. Really it is the only way you will know you are talking to a real person.

Avoid all the women under 30 who look like models. They usually are. Trust me on this, I know of girls who supposedly sit chatting on sites while the real girl is in a disco in Istanbul.

If you want to meet s lot of Russian/Ukrainian girls in one place, actually taking a summer holiday to a big all inclusive resort in Antalya will yield good results. The Adam and Eve has more women there than Odessa during summer with a huge disco,mpools and plenty of opportunities. Sadly it is also a sausage fest of Turkish and Arab guys so competition is fierce.

Ukraine is really really difficult these days, aside from all the pro daters and scammers most women under 30 are completely westernised now - tattoos, drinking, holidays abroad, they show little interest in settling down until their baby clock explodes at 30. Your best o-toon is a professional divorcee over 30 from a university town like Lviv, Dnepro, Kharkiv - Kiev is difficult, Odessa is difficult.

Overall I'd say Russian women while smaller choice tend to be lower risk and more serious. I met my ex wife in Rostov on don a place with few redeeming features like Detroit that most young women want to leave. There is a very good traditional marriage agency there who I met my wife through. She is an old matriarch who will take good care of you. Russian-enigma.com - she was very reasonable in terms of pricing, didn't try and rip me off in any way and even came to the meeting with my wife's family, she tends to know her girls very well. She's an old school matchmaker - the girls don't look as glitzy as a date but they are more real than the photoshop emporium.

A good Russian woman who wants you will move mountains to spend time with you from the minute you land. She will also take good care of your finances and make sure you don't get ripped off. My wife used to argue over 4 use taxi fares - she took me on the bus to save money and we didn't travel first class on the train. You should spoil her with attentive small gifts like flowers, chocolates, a small bottle of duty free perfume, but any shopping trip to a shop with a security guard, no customers and no price tags should be your cue to leave immediately.

Don't get emotionally involved before you meet. Be wary if she doesn't want you to meet her family and friends. Don't spend a lot of time on chat/letters - at most 4 weeks before you leave set up as many prospects as you can.  If a girl gives you the run around drop her - these girls don't have the luxury of sitting on the fence, you want a girl who is madly enthusiastic to see it through.

She might seem emotionally cold or reserved and shy away from physical contact at first, you have to be alpha, you'll get not backed but show your interest. If she doesn't defrost within a few dates abandon her.

I'd advise going on holiday with her fir st least a couple of weeks before doing the visa process if it looks serious - you can get cheap direct flights to lots of Turkish resorts Cyprus where 2 weeks all inclusive deals can be had for under 1,000 each. You need to see what she is like 24/7.

Other things: she will seem like an angel for the first 3 months, once she feels she has you she will turn into your mom. It can be claustrophobic. Expect drama - quarrels are standard entertainment, it does not mean you have a bad relationship. You have to stick with it. They never quit if they love a man. Everything is a test. They are arch manipulators and good at deception, nothing is ever their fault. )

Good luck. You will need it)

[Trenchcoat]

I would be cautious about 'Russian-enigma.com' OP they look like they are on the make for my liking, sure they may not be as bad as ppl but unless your loaded OP these lot seem to price everything all the way, its at least $1600k for the required membership, but my guess is when they are done with you it will be a lot more. Not saying you couldn't meet someone through them there not necessarily an outright scam, but they do place themselves between you and the girl, no skype looks possible, its generally mail forwarding and they reckon you could get a reply by morning if you post of before you go to bed, i.e you may be talking to Boris! for all you know. Sure the girls no doubt exist but you are not necessarily communicating with them and there are a lot of girls on their website so knowing them all well I would question.

So be wary, they may just be a Mordinson (Kharkiv) type of pricey setup, but to me anything that is both pricey and stands too much in the way of client & girl is not good news. I would have little way of knowing if the agency is not paying a few quid to the girl once there to meet & enjoy entertainment and then after the meeting(s) turn a blank, my membership money wasted, plus of course the flight. You would just have their reassurance of course, but talk can just be talk. If your rich and have time & money to burn and want to take a punt. Personally though I would not place my bets there.

[Morty]

TC, did you meet your wife there? No, I did. I have first hand experience of them, you are just speculating.

Firstly, the 1600 is all inclusive. Elena literally took care of everything from when I arrived to when I left, the price included all meetings, and I had her personal dedicated translation service the entire time I was there. She arranged dates for us at museums, resteraunt said, took care of everything and was at the end of the phone the entire trip. She is not the cheapest but she offers a very personal professional 1 on 1 service. Her 'old fashioned' letters approach does at least protect the girls from the endless perverts, time wasters etc and as. I said unlike most she does know the women on her books. I know the mordinsons as well and both offer a very old school personal service. In terms of RE you basically book a flight and everything else is taken care of - for a first time visitor it is a very safe option and frankly 1600 is peanuts compared to what you will spend in total - the uk settlement visa process alone is more than 5k in fees now including more than Elena charges just as a bunt to the nhs.

If you stack up accommodation costs, transfers. Translator costs, etc you can easily spend 1600 in any case.

I can't fault her service, she thought my ex was trouble and warned me to choose something else, and she was, but we were married several years and it was fun while it lasted, none of which RE were to blame for.

She's a old school customer service matchmaker - the sort that used to exist everywhere until adate turned it into walmart of women.

Pay your money and take your choice. I rate the service, you've never used them, chances are by the time you have a couple of failed trips under your belt you'll waste more than she charges in any case. I went to Rostov, met one girl and married her 3 months later, in my book that is a good service as far as the agency is concerned.

But I expect the op to make his own enquiries. I had a good result with them so my recommendation is based on personal experience with them.

[BillyB]

Avoid all the women under 30 who look like models. They usually are.

Should a guy target only the average and ugly looking women? I'm not convinced beauty makes a woman bad and not marriage material. Many men feel they don't have a chance with beautiful women so they don't pursue. Makes my job easier in getting dates with those lonely ladies.

[mhr7]

Other things: she will seem like an angel for the first 3 months, once she feels she has you she will turn into your mom. It can be claustrophobic. Expect drama - quarrels are standard entertainment, it does not mean you have a bad relationship. You have to stick with it. They never quit if they love a man. Everything is a test. They are arch manipulators and good at deception, nothing is ever their fault. )

Good luck. You will need it)

Good advice.

But mine turned into my mom after 3 weeks, she won't quarrel with me-I either get the silent treatment or I get a lecture (but usually I get a warning that a lecture is coming, which gives me a minute to think of what I did wrong this time). Yes, everything is a test, be careful how you respond to her, she will analyze everything you say and remember it forever. Her fault? Not a chance.

[Boethius]

Good advice.

But mine turned into my mom after 3 weeks, she won't quarrel with me-I either get the silent treatment or I get a lecture (but usually I get a warning that a lecture is coming, which gives me a minute to think of what I did wrong this time). Yes, everything is a test, be careful how you respond to her, she will analyze everything you say and remember it forever. Her fault? Not a chance.

So why do you stay with her?  This won't get better over time.

[Trenchcoat]

TC, did you meet your wife there? No, I did. I have first hand experience of them, you are just speculating.

Who is to say you met your wife there, you could have made a profile to push their services for all we know. You have made 56 posts, I've only been here about 6 months and already about 270 ish posts, BillyB be as we see above is 8 thousand and something posts. Now if you were someone like BillyB or 2tallbill I would have said fair enough as we know from their postings, advice and standing that they are genuine decent guys. You on the other hand we know virtually nothing about you other than what you tell us. So it is right to speculate on advice when looking up the website that there are some things that may be of concern.

OP here has come onto this forum afraid of getting scammed, I have no wish to see the unhappiness inflicted by scammers befall anyone and do what I hope any decent person would do and alert said newbie to any possible danger whether it turns out to exist or not. That's what OP has come on here for, are you telling me that there aren't agencies out there that exist on the same format as the one you proposed that just have guys on lining them up with their friends who have no intention of marrying them, of course they are. I'm not saying that is what definitely is going on here, but I am saying to OP that he needs to be careful that it is not going on.

The flights are not included, transfer is from the airport to your hotel/apartment - all can be done cheaper by yourself. Message forwarding is not included that can be $20-30 per month.

In any case how does OP know he will find a girl to marry here, there are no guarantees all that money could be spent and be wasted, you presumably as far as we know met your wife there but that is not to say it would work for OP for definite too or anyway near it. To my mind letting an agency control your search is not good, you then place yourself at their mercy banking on that their honest rather than dishonest. I have a theory that many that start of honest quickly find they cannot keep in business by doing so or just get lured by the easier profit for unsuspecting clients which is fine for a while until of course their reputation suffers.

What OP also has to think about is how best to spend his money, it can quickly go, if he goes here ends up spending several thousand all in all, that is when guys give up, when they have been cleaned out. If he goes it alone, he can get in probably at least two trips for the same money and not be cleared out all at once. That and you have to ask yourself in UK/US $1600 is a common monthly wage, in Russia, particularly in a deprives area like Rostov it is probably more commonly a wage for a whole year. Others do the service much cheaper, why pay someone so much for just lining up a few women for you to see for a short time. There looking to get the money to me.

[mhr7]

So why do you stay with her?  This won't get better over time.

Well, she's beautiful, smart, fun, great in bed and knows how to cook a wonderful meal (as do I).

I think it has to do with cultural/linguistic differences/misinterpretations. I can respond to her the way I would respond to an American woman and the AW probably wouldn't give it a second thought. But when my response goes through her Russian mind she sometimes interprets it differently and takes offense at my harmlessly intended  reply. Then brings it up 2 weeks later, at which point I have to explain it in quite some detail and reassure her that no offense was ever intended. As she becomes more familiar with the subtleties of my personality, I believe it will get better.

We spoke about this just tonight. On occasion I have to remind her that I'm American and we do and say things a little differently than Russians.

[BillyB]

I have to remind her that I'm American

She forgot you're American after the first time you told her?

I'm fortunate my wife doesn't get angry at anything for more than a few hours and it's back to normal. She's not as fortunate as I am though.