Men that are no-shows & no-goes

[xiphoid]

I’ve read somewhere that many men only write letters to women but never actually go and meet them. If so, is this very common? What’s the point? I’ve been pondering this sort of behavior recently because I have been in contact with two women that only seem concerned with when I am coming to visit them. No conversation, writing nothing about themselves, not even a proper greeting; just one or two sentences almost demanding to know when I can come. The first of the two ladies did not even write in complete sentences. Are there that many guys that are no-shows? Or is international dating correspondence etiquette merely a thing of the past. My experience of late indicates that letter writing is a vanishing art. I would rather not travel so far to meet a complete stranger. Thanks…

[BC]

although most evidence is anecdotal, it's been reported that the actual number of men that actually go to FSU is very small.

I think it's that agency online sites are built to entice a high number of subscribers and does not filter the male applicants.  You might find a lot of couch potatoes, dreamers, lonely guys and a large number of others that drop out when the venture proves unfeasible due to monetary or time constraints.  Even some of the serious guys might stop communicating because they found someone more pleasing elsewhere or might smell a scam where there is none.

I can imagine that real women (vs boris with a wife beater tshirt and laptop) can become quite frustrated quickly and only have interest for those that will commit to traveling.

[GatoMoon]

I’ve read somewhere that many men only write letters to women but never actually go and meet them.

Including you, yes !!!


Status: Looking > 5 years
Trips: No Selection

[GatoMoon]

I’ve read somewhere that many men only write letters to women but never actually go and meet them. If so, is this very common? What’s the point? I’ve been pondering this sort of behavior recently because I have been in contact with two women that only seem concerned with when I am coming to visit them. No conversation, writing nothing about themselves, not even a proper greeting; just one or two sentences almost demanding to know when I can come. The first of the two ladies did not even write in complete sentences. Are there that many guys that are no-shows? Or is international dating correspondence etiquette merely a thing of the past. My experience of late indicates that letter writing is a vanishing art. I would rather not travel so far to meet a complete stranger. Thanks…

They need to realise it is awful long way, and time consuming for any men to visit just for an 'interview' especially these men who live from away - outside Europe !!!   I won't go to visit them if they write like what you had explained.  Unless there are very good Plan B, I would want to make sure they are genuinely interested in me.

Most men who live in USA only have 2 weeks a year vacation - so why should they fly all the way to Ukraine for a 2-minute interview ?!!!   

If these 2 women who do not bother to write complete sentences, move on, and don't waste your time on them.

There is old saying in business ' you have to spent money to make money ' - same goes for the relationships except the 'money' part.   If they do not invest themselves for their future, they won't find one  (except for probably finding local men)

[xiphoid]

Including you, yes !!![b]GatoMoon[/b]      WHAT! HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? You're being an as-. You don't know me or the number of times I've been to Ireland, Ukraine, Russia, Tunisia, Lithuania etc. I love to travel and not necessarily for dating. I have friends in Kyiv & I plan to visit them this winter. I have friends in... oh never mind. Just stick your attitude up your as-.

[xiphoid]

My humble apologies GatoMoon. I am the as- here. I lost my cool and I feel like a fool. Sorry.

[CaptB]

Xiphoid,


I am guessing GatoMoon was looking at your profile information. Where it says "trips" you don't have anything listed. Many men here do not fill in their profile info. (they say privacy.....but I think there are other issues). Letter writing may be a lost art......but that is what I did in the beginning. I used an agency....LifeTime Partners....in Tver, Russia.
I wrote 16 letters.....the old fashioned way.....with paper and an envelope. The agency recommended to write "short" letters.....or the ladies would get frustrated trying to interpret very long letters. I wrote one paragraph about myself.....and one paragraph asking the lady questions about he life. I got some clues about them in their online profile. No two letters were identical. The most important thing I said was......I and coming to your city in about eight weeks......with the exact date of arrival. I received 14 replies. Of the other two.....one had matched with somebody......the other was gone for part of the summer in Moscow. The second one.....did contact me about 4 days before I was leaving for home.


Meeting one.....and having it not work out......is a waste of vacation time .....unless you have a back-up plan (always recommended). I have done it both ways.......meeting many and meeting only one. Meeting many through a "good" agency could maybe be the best method for many. You don't need a back-up plan.....because you are meeting many. The women registered in an agency.....know the score.....they know you are meeting several women. They also know you are really coming for a visit.


Meeting one is riskier. You should have a back-up plan. You better have "Skyped"  many times. My wife and I met this way.....but is was a little different from the norm. She taught english for over ten years at a language institute. We talked on the phone weekly, then every few days......and finally daily....30 - 60 minutes a day. By the time I visited her....we had already become friends. I was lucky. We did not need an interpreter.


For the average guy.....I would have to recommend the "visit many method"....using an honest agency.....and that is the only problem......finding an "honest" agency. Lifetime Partners in USA & Tver, Russia is still around. Mark Dayton is one of the owners .....I know. Others here may be able to give recommendations. To be successful......you need to take a chance.....you need to be realistic in your expectations.....but mainly you need to pick a date...................an "GO".


Capt B


 

[CaptB]

Xiphoid,


I am guessing GatoMoon was looking at your profile information. Where it says "trips" you don't have anything listed. Many men here do not fill in their profile info. (they say privacy.....but I think there are other issues). Letter writing may be a lost art......but that is what I did in the beginning. I used an agency....LifeTime Partners....in Tver, Russia.
I wrote 16 letters.....the old fashioned way.....with paper and an envelope. The agency recommended to write "short" letters.....or the ladies would get frustrated trying to interpret very long letters. I wrote one paragraph about myself.....and one paragraph asking the lady questions about her life. I got some clues about them in their online profile. No two letters were identical. The most important thing I said was......I and coming to your city in about eight weeks......with the exact date of arrival. I received 14 replies. Of the other two.....one had matched with somebody......the other was gone for part of the summer in Moscow. The second one.....did contact me about 4 days before I was leaving for home.


Meeting one.....and having it not work out......is a waste of vacation time .....unless you have a back-up plan (always recommended). I have done it both ways.......meeting many and meeting only one. Meeting many through a "good" agency could maybe be the best method for many. You don't need a back-up plan.....because you are meeting many. The women registered in an agency.....know the score.....they know you are meeting several women. They also know you are really coming for a visit.


Meeting one is riskier. You should have a back-up plan. You better have "Skyped"  many times. My wife and I met this way.....but is was a little different from the norm. She taught english for over ten years at a language institute. We talked on the phone weekly, then every few days......and finally daily....30 - 60 minutes a day. By the time I visited her....we had already become friends. I was lucky. We did not need an interpreter.


For the average guy.....I would have to recommend the "visit many method"....using an honest agency.....and that is the only problem......finding an "honest" agency. Lifetime Partners in USA & Tver, Russia is still around. Mark Dayton is one of the owners .....I know. Others here may be able to give recommendations. To be successful......you need to take a chance.....you need to be realistic in your expectations.....but mainly you need to pick a date...................an "GO".


Capt B


 

[CaptB]

Whoops! Somehow I quoted my post. Disregard.


Capt B

[xiphoid]

Thanks CaptB. You're right about the profile but also one does not wish to display their failures either. I've come back home "empty handed" more times than I would care to admit openly. Also I've been at this off and on for while too, so I have noticed a gradual change in the ladies. Long letters, short letters, thoughtful letters, it doesn't seem to matter. It's gotten very discouraging when the start of new communication has devolved down to mere statements or questions such as  "When are you coming?" or "October is most convenient" rather than "Hello_____ how are you?" etc. etc. Politeness and respectfulness doesn't seem to matter anymore. Things have changed...

[ML]

Also I've been at this off and on for while too, so I have noticed a gradual change in the ladies. Long letters, short letters, thoughtful letters, it doesn't seem to matter. It's gotten very discouraging when the start of new communication has devolved down to mere statements or questions such as  "When are you coming?" or "October is most convenient" rather than "Hello_____ how are you?" etc. etc. Politeness and respectfulness doesn't seem to matter anymore. Things have changed...

Things have changed everywhere with respect to politeness and respectfulness.

We older folk can remember back many years ago when it was being said that the younger folk have no manners.

Well guess what . . . those younger folk back then are middle aged and older folk now . . . and probably the new younger folks are even worse than the younger folks way back when. 

Manners for many people are terrible, particularly with writing, responding to requests, invitations, etc.

[BillyB]

I’ve read somewhere that many men only write letters to women but never actually go and meet them.

I've read agencies say less than 5% of their customers do a trip after signing up. I've wrote thousands and girls and I didn't visit thousands of girls. Many may think I'm a keyboard Romeo instead of losing interest in them. When communicating with the ladies, give them a hint early you're serious and can make a visit to the right lady without making promises. That way they put more effort into communications with you instead of thinking you could be just another one of the keyboard Romeos out there.

[Jumper]

Any women at an agency can tell you that a huge percentage iof them men writing will never show up in person.

The odds are simply  against it. More women are on the websites than men looking into this.
add in that many men from cultures that would never condone a cross racial /cross cultural marriage write RW, for fun and fantasy.
and that that many married men write them for those same reasons.
Those numbers are more lopsided that direction than you might possible imagine.

[Gator]

My humble apologies GatoMoon. I am the as- here. I lost my cool and I feel like a fool. Sorry.

Less than three minutes between the two messages.  I commend you for getting it off your chest so fast. 

My suggestion when communicating with the ladies is to say you will travel to the FSU in about  three months.  Then I suggest you stop the letter writing and ask them to join you on  Skype. 

I wish you the best in your romantic journey.   

[ML]

. . . write RW, for fun and fantasy.
and that that many married men write them for those same reasons.

What do many of the men who frequent Singles Bars have in common?

The are married.

[CaptB]

Xiphoid,


You don't have your age listed or age-range of women you are looking for. If you are looking for women in their early (or younger) to mid twenties......I feel your pain. After my divorce (at age 40) I dated a few college girls......they asked me......it was fun........but I never took it seriously. When I visited Russia for the first time.....I was looking for RW aged 38 and older.......I was 49. I experienced less games with women closer to my age. If the women you are communicating with are impatient and/or a little rude.....move on. Yes it is different times......but the "type" of woman I would choose.......remains the same.


Good luck,


Capt B

[alex330]

I just asked my wife how many of the men that were writing letters would fly over. She worked for an Anastasia Date affiliated agency in Odessa. Her guess was around 40% of the men would visit.


I always thought it much lower but according to her it is not as low as we think.


Anastasia has great marketing, good looking women, and Odessa is an easy or favored destination for many so maybe the number in that city is higher.

[CaptB]

Xiphoid says "but also one does not wish to display their failures either...." If no one displayed their failures here....on this forum......we never would have formed....."The Ten Commandments" in the newby section. Failing is learning. This forum is filled with.......how not to do this process......very valuable information. I think to fair to others on the forum you need to relate your failures.......as well as your successes. How many women did not work out for me in the US.......many.....many.........but it is normal. A guy here......can't beat himself up because of a few failures.....they are inevitable. Hopefully though......you only need to be successful............................once.


I just started a thread called: "13th anniversary............and a small story". Sort of a condensed trip report of all my visits to Russia. My failures are listed......as well as success.


Good luck,


Capt B

[John of Hesperia]

Xiphoid,


You don't have your age listed or age-range of women you are looking for. If you are looking for women in their early (or younger) to mid twenties......I feel your pain. After my divorce (at age 40) I dated a few college girls......they asked me......it was fun........but I never took it seriously. When I visited Russia for the first time.....I was looking for RW aged 38 and older.......I was 49. I experienced less games with women closer to my age. If the women you are communicating with are impatient and/or a little rude.....move on. Yes it is different times......but the "type" of woman I would choose.......remains the same.


Good luck,


Capt B

+++ I am in Odessa starting right now, and visiting my first choice that is 56 y/o,  chose the 50-60 age range.  (Yes there is a plan B, C, and beyond that, plan G)

[CaptB]

John,


Good luck to you. I see you are 75 y.o........and the lady you are visiting is 56. I was 51 when I met my wife....who was 38 at the time. More than a 10 year age difference......always bothered me a little. In the states I had dated 21 y.o. when I was 40 (after divorce).....they asked me out to dinner, dancing etc.....it was fun....but I knew that it would go no where. By the way....they asked me out......i was not seriously interested  in "college girls". But at age 51......I really liked a 38 y.o. RW........the feeling was mutual. But the age difference of 13 years......bothered me. She was an english teacher.....at a foreign language institute. When things became serious......I asked her if she would like to speak to my folks (getting a kick out of speaking to an actual Russian".........our cold war enemies :-) They talked......they were smitten. I expressed my concern....to my Dad.......who was very old school. But his advice surprised me. He said: "you and her are both over 35 y.o........I said "yes". He said you both have been previously married.... and divorced.......I said "yes". You both like each other a lot.......I said "yes". "then what is the problem ?


Good luck to you


Capt B

[fathertime]

I would rather not travel so far to meet a complete stranger. Thanks…

If in your shoes, I would!  It would be an adventure, but I'd also have a backup plan. 


As far as I am concerned the face to face is what matters, all the writing is fine if it happens, but meeting one on one is 100 times more important...IMO.


Fathertime! 

[Trenchcoat]

I’ve read somewhere that many men only write letters to women but never actually go and meet them. If so, is this very common? What’s the point? I’ve been pondering this sort of behavior recently because I have been in contact with two women that only seem concerned with when I am coming to visit them. No conversation, writing nothing about themselves, not even a proper greeting; just one or two sentences almost demanding to know when I can come. The first of the two ladies did not even write in complete sentences. Are there that many guys that are no-shows? Or is international dating correspondence etiquette merely a thing of the past. My experience of late indicates that letter writing is a vanishing art. I would rather not travel so far to meet a complete stranger. Thanks…

Yeah, I've had exactly the same, the second girl I met in Nikolaev was just like that, the only upside is that chances are they are not scammers since they are so direct about meeting you. The big downside of course is that it ruins any chance to get to know the girl before meeting. As I found, the same attitude you tend to get from the girl if you meet her, she just sees you for that one meeting then that's it if no chemistry. She's invested nothing so it is easy for her to walk off and be arbitrary about the whole thing. She either doesn't seem to understand the flight, time, expense & bother it can take to see her. She just sends out demanding message & short sentence messages.

In a way I can see why, when I get back into the search I am going to keep my letters short, give myself a three-four line rule I think, even with girls I am getting on with and perhaps go instead for lots of quick & short messages. The first girl I met I did a fair few longish letters to of several paragraphs sometimes (to her medium length letters), but it did not work out - so why waste my valuable time writing long letters? (unless of course time is on hand, i.e keyboard romeos) I think many lonely men use these FSU dating sites as a kind of 'pick me up' to dispel the isolation which I can understand. I have a naturally tendency to write long messages so will have to be disciplined to keep it short & sweet.

I think in general though you tend to find this characteristic on the free sites like Mamba as loads more guys use them as there free. If there a keyboard romeo they have lost nothing by doing so. The decent by which I mean more expensive pay monthly sites tend not to have it so much, you'll get longer letters in there I find. The free sites mean messaging more girls I find and with a lot less action its often these girls with there impromptu demands that you show up (even if you explain that you have been many a time before & intend to visit soon) that you have left to correspond with.

I would not take their demand too seriously, just keep corresponding short sentences, try to get them on skype (though I have found some don't want to do skype for same time reason). The second girl I met had lots of slight pimples on her face that you could not see from her photos (where she looked hot), she was still quite attractive looking but probably wanted to avoid skype for that reason since my HD screen may have picked it up, lol - so perhaps wanted to see if there was any chemistry there in person. By stating you are coming to her demand I think it gives her a lot of power which is no doubt a bad relationship move, one I will not be making again.

Like I say I am planning to use these agencies again in the future but just as a back up to my plan of going out there for an extended stay of at least a month. That way I can call them up there when out there without risking losing out on sightseeing/holiday if it were for just a week.So to me it makes sense to make agencies/free dating sites my back up plan as they are the one variable that is constantly available . I can immerse myself more in Russian society to try to find the right women using my own methods & interests.

You've had quite a number of trips now, if I were you I would out together what you've learnt & use it to hone in your method of searching more meticulously.

[Trenchcoat]

Less than three minutes between the two messages.  I commend you for getting it off your chest so fast. 

My suggestion when communicating with the ladies is to say you will travel to the FSU in about  three months.  Then I suggest you stop the letter writing and ask them to join you on  Skype. 

I wish you the best in your romantic journey.   

I had one throw her toys out of her pram after saying that I would be coming in two months, lol, this was after our first email exchange as well. 

[ML]

I had one throw her toys out of her pram after saying that I would be coming in two months, lol, this was after our first email exchange as well.

But wouldn't she still need her vibrator for two months?

[GatoMoon]

I just asked my wife how many of the men that were writing letters would fly over. She worked for an Anastasia Date affiliated agency in Odessa. Her guess was around 40% of the men would visit.


I always thought it much lower but according to her it is not as low as we think.


Anastasia has great marketing, good looking women, and Odessa is an easy or favored destination for many so maybe the number in that city is higher.

But how many of these men have successfully found their women ?!!!!   1% of of these 40% ?