Am I getting scammed?

[BillyB]

My mother and I left when she was the ripe old age of 21 and I was 2, give me some credit.

We've taken similar paths to America. You're more American than anything else.

I simply let my curiosity get the best of me at $10 a pop.  Oh well, I will re coop!  It's not that serious.

Someone wasting 4 months of my life over a game is something I wouldn't take lightly. When you do get an opportunity to date a fine woman, she will evaluate your everyday actions, especially if she's looking for good genes to pass onto her kids. If she sees a pattern you're the kind of guy that everybody takes advantage of, she will not respect you. If she sees you're the kind of guy that can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, she will not respect you. If you tell her it's no big deal like you're telling us now, she will lose respect for you even more. Without respect, it's hard for an FSU woman to love. Live, learn and toughen up. Promise yourself you will never be taken for a fool and trade love letters with Ivan, the employee of the month, again and whatever you do, don't tell the ladies you date in the future about your experience with this woman and loveme.com.

[GatoMoon]

I am a terrible person and will forever hold my head in shame.

Are you Japanese  (LOL)  If so, can we all watch you getting beheaded yourself by a Samurai?  LOL 

[2tallbill]

Ok, OK, I'm sorry!  I fueled the Eastern European scamming industry, putting us all at risk. I am a terrible person and will forever hold my head in shame.  Now can we get over it?

Lighten up, I didn't read every response. You asked for advice and you got it. Sometimes
you will get excellent advice posted in a positive informative way. Other times it will be
more dubious in value and negative or even obnoxious in presentation. The advice is
free, so your job is to sort through it all and use the best and ignore the rest. Getting
offended is just silly and time consuming so don't do it. Also growing a thick skin is
advantageous in the pursuit of FSUW.

I was already married to a Ukrainian!  It last 2 years.  My mother is Ukrainian, that has lasted 50 years so far!  Even with that information, you assumed I am totally naive to the scams and lifestyles of eastern Europe?  Yes, my knowledge is from the USSR, not so much post soviet era.  My mother and I left when she was the ripe old age of 21 and I was 2, give me some credit.  I simply let my curiosity get the best of me at $10 a pop.  Oh well, I will re coop!  It's not that serious.

The short answer: is that they blame others for the problem and weasel out of
responsibility.

Long answer:
Consider the money tuition spent at the school of hard knocks. You didn't lose much,
and now know better. Trying to get the money back will cost you more time and energy
than the money is worth.

Here is how the pay by the letter agencies avoid getting hauled into court every 5
minutes (and losing). They contract with foreign agencies with a contract expressly
forbidding what they do. Then they blame anything on that one foreign contractor
who is surely the only bad actor in their system and their purity and honesty
shouldn't be questioned and that they can't be held responsible for one bad
actor that they've already punished.

They have very detailed legal terms that you agreed to (but didn't read) before you
exchanged your first letter. In a legal setting they would paint you like a disgruntled
lover who is blaming them because a romance didn't work out. 

There are many agencies that don't do the pay by the letter scheme and there are
local Russian/Ukrainian dating sites that would probably be much better. Use the
sites the locals use (like Mamba)

here are some links that you might find useful

The 10 commandments
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=34


ML's sites and advice on how to get started
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0


The free E-Book
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=47


My story about how I did it (it only took 9 years and I made a million mistakes)
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0


Udachi!


Bill

[BillyB]

Getting offended is just silly and time consuming so don't do it. Also growing a thick skin is
advantageous in the pursuit of FSUW.

Hopefully, if spygreg is being played for the last 4 months, he comes out of this situation disgusted with it more than accepting it as no big deal. Most FSU women deal with plenty of BS back home. They don't need the BS of marrying a guy who is easily separated with his money and think it's no big deal to the point they may repeat their mistakes. I'm sure every man here has been in spygreg's shoes and been taken advantage of. The guys that wise up faster than the others are more desirable to the ladies.

FYI guys, American dating websites play games with you too.

[alex330]

FYI guys, American dating websites play games with you too.

All the big ones have been caught with fake women profiles and using tactics to retain subscriptions. Match.com, Yahoo personals, Mate1.com and Ashley Madison to name a few.

[2tallbill]

All the big ones have been caught with fake women profiles and using tactics to retain subscriptions. Match.com, Yahoo personals, Mate1.com and Ashley Madison to name a few.

Yes plus they have 272 men for every woman who weighs less than 200lbs.

[Spygreg]

Well, all is fine, I'm not seriously offended. I'm actually quite the smart ass so the comment of holding my head in shame was exactly that.  Unfortunately you don't know me so you have no idea how I'm really dealing with it.  At first I thought, maybe I wasted my time doing this forum after reading a bunch of responses about how naive I am and so on.  But as someone said, it's just free advice. So whatever, maybe even I can learn something after sifting thought the personal insults from people I don't know.     

Well enough of that.  In her last letter to me, which I haven't responded to yet, she told me what the agency suggested for our meeting.  As expected, I will pay for 2 rooms.  Apparently she is paying for her own bus to Kiev.  That's surprising.  As an added bonus she told me that the agency also provides telephone translation so we can communicate.  I'm thinking that offer came from the agency.  I can only imagine the cost of that service.  Aside from the international roaming charges, which are $5.99 a minute when I go to London and god knows how much more in overpriced Ukraine, I'm sure their charge will be something that makes an in-flight, international, person to person call look cheap!

If I'm booking a room for her, won't I need her first and last name?  I wonder if Uri thought of that when writing to me.  What will he say when I say, sweetheart, I need your full name and address to book the room? That could be interesting.  I'm sure she (or he) will say just book it under your name, but of course being the foolish American I am I will be too honest and accidentally tell the hotel I'm booking it for my love! Now it's too late, they won't book it without that.  If I get her full name and address, of course I can find her outside the agency. Even if the address is the agencies address, I'm wondering if I could send a restricted delivery letter to her.  In the US, the post office will honor the restriction and only deliver it to the person (at least they are supposed too).  I'm wondering if the Ukrainian post office has such a service?  If not, I may have to look into other options. 

[BillyB]

I'm wondering if the Ukrainian post office has such a service?

The Ukrainian postal service isn't delivering anything to Donestk. I know you invested a lot of time with this gal and it's hard to give her up but you got to get rid of the agency. Until then, you don't know if she's interested in you. Make the ultimatum to get her home phone number or skype or you're cancelling the trip. If she's even reading your agency mail and likes you, she'd be happy to speak to you directly in any fashion you want.

http://ukrposhta.ua/en/robota-ukrposhti-v-doneckij-ta-luganskij-oblastyax

[2tallbill]

\

Well enough of that.  In her last letter to me, which I haven't responded to yet, she told me what the agency suggested for our meeting.  As expected, I will pay for 2 rooms.  Apparently she is paying for her own bus to Kiev.  That's surprising.  As an added bonus she told me that the agency also provides telephone translation so we can communicate.  I'm thinking that offer came from the agency.  I can only imagine the cost of that service.  Aside from the international roaming charges, which are $5.99 a minute when I go to London and god knows how much more in overpriced Ukraine, I'm sure their charge will be something that makes an in-flight, international, person to person call look cheap!

If I'm booking a room for her, won't I need her first and last name?  I wonder if Uri thought of that when writing to me.  What will he say when I say, sweetheart, I need your full name and address to book the room? That could be interesting.  I'm sure she (or he) will say just book it under your name, but of course being the foolish American I am I will be too honest and accidentally tell the hotel I'm booking it for my love! Now it's too late, they won't book it without that.  If I get her full name and address, of course I can find her outside the agency. Even if the address is the agencies address, I'm wondering if I could send a restricted delivery letter to her.  In the US, the post office will honor the restriction and only deliver it to the person (at least they are supposed too).  I'm wondering if the Ukrainian post office has such a service?  If not, I may have to look into other options.

First I recommend that you rent an apartment not a hotel and that you book it yourself
not through the agency (airbnb or just google apartments for rent). Most apartment
places will have airport pickup as an option.

Second I recommend that you always use your own translator. If I knew which city
you might travel to then I or somebody else here might be able to recommend someone.
An agency translator won't necessarily have the same goals as you do.

Third, I would recommend that you have a solid backup plan, to meet other women
in case things don't work out with the Foreign Affair girl.

If you review my advice you should notice that it takes the agency out of the equation
and it's you not them that is driving the bus. If you use their airport pickup, their hotel
or apartment, their translator, drivers etc then they can lead you around by the nose
while emptying your wallet.

Lastly, if she seems indifferent or you get anything except positive vibes then I would
highly recommend that you dump this girl and find another.
(that was my original advice as well)

Udachi!


Bill

[Faux Pas]

First I recommend that you rent an apartment not a hotel and that you book it yourself
not through the agency (airbnb or just google apartments for rent). Most apartment
places will have airport pickup as an option.

Second I recommend that you always use your own translator. If I knew which city
you might travel to then I or somebody else here might be able to recommend someone.
An agency translator won't necessarily have the same goals as you do.

Third, I would recommend that you have a solid backup plan, to meet other women
in case things don't work out with the Foreign Affair girl.

If you review my advice you should notice that it takes the agency out of the equation
and it's you not them that is driving the bus. If you use their airport pickup, their hotel
or apartment, their translator, drivers etc then they can lead you around by the nose
while emptying your wallet.

Lastly, if she seems indifferent or you get anything except positive vibes then I would
highly recommend that you dump this girl and find another.
(that was my original advice as well)

Udachi!


Bill

Pay close attention to and follow this advice.

(more free advice)

[Patagonie]

Well, all is fine, I'm not seriously offended. I'm actually quite the smart ass so the comment of holding my head in shame was exactly that.  Unfortunately you don't know me so you have no idea how I'm really dealing with it.  At first I thought, maybe I wasted my time doing this forum after reading a bunch of responses about how naive I am and so on.  But as someone said, it's just free advice. So whatever, maybe even I can learn something after sifting thought the personal insults from people I don't know.     

Well enough of that.  In her last letter to me, which I haven't responded to yet, she told me what the agency suggested for our meeting.  As expected, I will pay for 2 rooms.  Apparently she is paying for her own bus to Kiev.  That's surprising.  As an added bonus she told me that the agency also provides telephone translation so we can communicate.  I'm thinking that offer came from the agency.  I can only imagine the cost of that service.  Aside from the international roaming charges, which are $5.99 a minute when I go to London and god knows how much more in overpriced Ukraine, I'm sure their charge will be something that makes an in-flight, international, person to person call look cheap!

If I'm booking a room for her, won't I need her first and last name?  I wonder if Uri thought of that when writing to me.  What will he say when I say, sweetheart, I need your full name and address to book the room? That could be interesting.  I'm sure she (or he) will say just book it under your name, but of course being the foolish American I am I will be too honest and accidentally tell the hotel I'm booking it for my love! Now it's too late, they won't book it without that.  If I get her full name and address, of course I can find her outside the agency. Even if the address is the agencies address, I'm wondering if I could send a restricted delivery letter to her.  In the US, the post office will honor the restriction and only deliver it to the person (at least they are supposed too).  I'm wondering if the Ukrainian post office has such a service?  If not, I may have to look into other options.

The fantasy is still going on 

You are making plans on how to go through the agency to finally won on her and meet the lady.

But the lady don't exist!!! That's only a photo in the agency site.

Yes there is a real lady who is still probably alive somewhere in the FSU who looks like the photo.
And she gets very likely, oral, anal and vaginal sex every day or every week. But your real problem therefore
is that she don't like threesome.

The Titanic is capsizing but you are still thinking about the tie you want to wear for the cocktail!

Wake up!

[Boethius]

Perhaps, Pat.  But it is not 100% a certainty.


To OP, one cannot just hope on a bus in Donetsk and travel to Kyiv.  All travel must go through the ATO Zone.  There is a Ukrainian government site that lists all border crossing times, including at the ATO Zone (currently open, thanks to a ceasefire that is holding so far). 


Does she travel outside Donetsk regularly?  Does she have the required Ukrainian government pass to enter Ukraine?  How does she plan on crossing the border?  Where is she catching her bus?


Does she have minor children?  If so, why did she stay in Donetsk?  Only the hardcore anti Ukraine supporters or those too poor to leave stayed after the war.  If the former, she likely won't go to Kyiv.  If the latter, how is she paying to visit you?

[Patagonie]

Perhaps, Pat.  But it is not 100% a certainty.


To OP, one cannot just hope on a bus in Donetsk and travel to Kyiv.  All travel must go through the ATO Zone.  There is a Ukrainian government site that lists all border crossing times, including at the ATO Zone (currently open, thanks to a ceasefire that is holding so far). 


Does she travel outside Donetsk regularly?  Does she have the required Ukrainian government pass to enter Ukraine?  How does she plan on crossing the border?  Where is she catching her bus?


Does she have minor children?  If so, why did she stay in Donetsk?  Only the hardcore anti Ukraine supporters or those too poor to leave stayed after the war.  If the former, she likely won't go to Kyiv.  If the latter, how is she paying to visit you?

+2
When a woman is travelling to meet you, you are always supposed to pay for her.
In the best case you give her the money back when you see her but she could consider that she is taking risk, that's your proposition and you should send the money BEFORE.
That's the moment where the scam can take place.
You didn't want to understand that Donestsk is a NO Zone, a No state, a no citizenship ... And you will have a lot of problem (if it's possible) to marry her.
I would ever say that the situation is better in Crimea. 

As Bo said you will find very poor people or anti Ukraine supporters. In both cases you need to really think about the whole landscape. That's totaly insane. An separatist will not date an American and the poorest could see you as a rescue man and drop you like a hot patatoe after the green card.

What happened to your first marriage that ended after two years?

[ML]

The fantasy is still going on 

You are making plans on how to go through the agency to finally won on her and meet the lady.

But the lady don't exist!!! That's only a photo in the agency site.

Yes there is a real lady who is still probably alive somewhere in the FSU who looks like the photo.
And she gets very likely, oral, anal and vaginal sex every day or every week. But your real problem therefore
is that she don't like threesome.

The Titanic is capsizing but you are still thinking about the tie you want to wear for the cocktail!

Wake up!

Pat says it best in the French soft way.  :-)

[jone]

Let's do a reality check:

Your (supposed) GF is going to get from Donetsk to Kyiv.

I have an acquaintance in Dnepro who is from Donetsk.  She is 31 and has a four year old child.  She moved to Dnipro to find work.  Her parents still live in Donetsk.

NOW READ THIS:  Her parents have not seen their granddaughter for two years because they cannot travel the 130 miles from Donetsk to Dnepro.

THE REASON THEY SET THE PROFILES UP WITH WOMEN FROM DONETSK IS SO THAT YOU CANNOT TRAVEL THERE TO SEE THE WOMAN.   THE WOMAN IN YOUR PROFILE HAS NEVER SEEN YOUR PICTURE, DOES NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND HAS NO DESIRE TO MEET YOU.  THAT IS REALITY.

[Gator]

Spygreg,

It is splendid that you wish to travel to Ukraine to meet UW.  However, please do not waste any more of your time with anything this agency has to offer.  For sure travel to Ukraine,  but later when you have found genuine women who have genuine interest in meeting you. 

Please do the following: 

Step One -  Write-off the investment you have made in letters.   Forget about it.  It's gone.  It is totally worthless, except for the lesson it taught you. 

Step Two -  Start over with a different agency, one in which women have the freedom of being able to communicate with you directly.  Other RWD members will have suggestions for such agencies. 

Step Three - Contact many women and progress to a few who Skype with you.  A couple of hours on Skype will tell you 10x more than a hundred emails.   And it is free! 

Step Four - This whole endeavor  boils down to personal feelings, i. e. what your heart tells you.  Keep Skyping and you will eventually feel mutual interest with one or more women.  It likely will derive from a combination of chemistry, values, goals and beauty. 

Step Five - Get on the plane. 

Good luck!  And hang in here.     

[Spygreg]

Gator, I absolutely agree with you, I will never use Loveme.com again.  From what I see they only want to sell tours and only offer the women profiles to lure men into the service.  They let you "letter" write to keep you occupied while waiting for the $4000 tours and as we all know, we are probably not even talking to the woman.  I have talked to a few women on their, but always insisted they go to email / Skype within a few letters.  Generally I figured 3 letters was reasonable. After that I figured I was being played.  With this one, I let my guard down a little, but still slowed way down.  She even complained that I only write to her once every couple weeks.  I thought it was stupid to send many emails to someone I can't even see. It was more curiosity that kept me going at a slow pace. Now I know my original thinking was correct.  If you can't see them, they don't exist!     

Jone, I am wondering what is the reason the parents can't travel?  Is it financial or is it impossible for those stuck in Donestk to leave?  What I read on line, for whatever that's worth, it looks like they can leave, but I don't know the process.  It might be an impossible one.  You said men can't travel to Donestk.  Is it true they can't or just that it's a terrible idea?  I ask because if it's impossible to do, it would seem the American companies would be putting themselves into great liability by doing this.  I know they have every disclaimer in the world, but they can't disclaim fraud!  If they knowingly offer a potential wife in an area you can't get too, it seems someone would drag their sleezball ass into court and take away the presidents Porsche or his house.  I know, privacy probably keeps many from pushing the issue, but maybe a few will do the groundwork to do this.   

Patagonie the Titanic never capsized, it broke in half and sunk!   

[jone]

Gator, I absolutely agree with you, I will never use Loveme.com again.  From what I see they only want to sell tours and only offer the women profiles to lure men into the service.  They let you "letter" write to keep you occupied while waiting for the $4000 tours and as we all know, we are probably not even talking to the woman.  I have talked to a few women on their, but always insisted they go to email / Skype within a few letters.  Generally I figured 3 letters was reasonable. After that I figured I was being played.  With this one, I let my guard down a little, but still slowed way down.  She even complained that I only write to her once every couple weeks.  I thought it was stupid to send many emails to someone I can't even see. It was more curiosity that kept me going at a slow pace. Now I know my original thinking was correct.  If you can't see them, they don't exist!     

Jone, I am wondering what is the reason the parents can't travel?  Is it financial or is it impossible for those stuck in Donestk to leave?  What I read on line, for whatever that's worth, it looks like they can leave, but I don't know the process.  It might be an impossible one.  You said men can't travel to Donestk.  Is it true they can't or just that it's a terrible idea?  I ask because if it's impossible to do, it would seem the American companies would be putting themselves into great liability by doing this.  I know they have every disclaimer in the world, but they can't disclaim fraud!  If they knowingly offer a potential wife in an area you can't get too, it seems someone would drag their sleezball ass into court and take away the presidents Porsche or his house.  I know, privacy probably keeps many from pushing the issue, but maybe a few will do the groundwork to do this.   

Patagonie the Titanic never capsized, it broke in half and sunk!

http://liveuamap.com/

Take a look at this map.  The borders of the Donbass and Ukraine are fairly dramatically drawn.  However, Donetsk is operated like a police state, and Ukrainian citizens are not free to roam.  If you are really interested in what happens to a Western Man who speaks little Russian and visits Donetsk, you should look into the archives of Vice News. 

[Spygreg]

Tootallbill:  I agree with your advice.  My rule was always you have to see them live to even start to consider them real.  I have said it before, I let this one go on far too long.  But I was pretty slow in  responding after I couldn't get real contact information.  I got taken for a few bucks, but I sure as hell wasn't going to spend every night writing to a woman who wouldn't give me her real contact info.  I think the oddest part was "she" insisted I share our "Plans" with my daughter so she is ready for us.  I never did, my daughter knows I would chat with women on line and thought this one was pretty, but that's all she ever knew. Pretty cold to try to lure a 15 year old girl into believing something that was a scam just to make a few bucks. 

Thanks for the links, even though some on this forum have made me out to be the biggest fool under the sun who should be ashamed of the oxygen I take from rest of humanity, I'm actually not that naive.  I had moment of wth, lets see what the next letter says.  I obviously said far too much when I posted.  How many people go to Vegas and keep pulling the handle when we all know they shouldn't? How many have spent far more on a romantic dinner only to never hear from the woman again?  I wonder how many spend 3, 4 or 5 grand on a romance tour only to come back home empty handed and plan to do it again.  If you make $300,000 a year, then it might be fine.  But for the rest of us who work for a living, that seems quite foolish. 

I'm curious now, where are you from?  Are you from Eastern Europe?  Do you remember any of it?  Sometimes I think I recall certain events from when we came here, but I'm not sure if it's just stories my mother told me filling in my subconscious. I recall some train car and boxes around me and my mother says that did happen.  She says she never told me about it because it was a miserable experience so I must remember it. I also recall being under something and being pulled out by my legs by someone, another thing she says she never talked about but says we that did happen too.  It was the USSR in 1968, weird things did happen there.  Anyway you are right, I grew up American.  What I know is the USA, not the USSR.  However, I did learn a few things about the culture of eastern Europe from my mother. 

Now I will say this, I don't really understand all the hype about Slavic women.  I am attracted to them, likely because of my own heritage.  But for anyone who thinks they are all so sweet and loving and unlike American women, what planet did they come from?  Ukrainian women can be the biggest B****s of all time.  Piss one off and stand by, she will slam you with the nearest heavy object she can lift.  Insult her and she will curse you out like a truck driver!  Don't like her food, she will ask you if you like it better this way, after she dumped your plate in your lap!  Yes they can be very passionate, but that passion can turn to rage in an instant.  They are raised in a culture where men still run the home, but that doesn't mean she won't tell you when you just screwed the pooch!  She will tell you that you are an idiot and ask what is wrong with you. My mothers favorite line was, "Are you normal".  She has since toned that down since it's common to be proud of not being normal.  Even she says that about herself now.  Honestly I think I can handle a Slavic woman just fine, but I grew up with one.  I dated a Russian girl in high school and remember her laughing at my Russian because I wasn't very good at gender association.  She was my first to be intimate with, so I guess I knew how to handle her, but they are certainly not the docile creatures these websites make them out to be!  I think a lot of guys are in for a surprise when they start to date them.

I have never stayed in a Ukrainian apartment.  Don't you give up some of the conveniences of a hotel?  Like a restaurant and bar in it?  I get some pretty big discounts on hotels because of my job, so it may not make as much sense to go the apartment route.  As far as the translator goes, to be honest, although my Russian sucks, my mother and my friends Ukrainian wife both have said any woman interested in me could understand it well enough to make it work.  I just can't understand it well when they speak fast.  "Goverish ne Tak Bwestree pozhousta?" My Russian spelling sucks, especially in Latin letters.

I totally agree getting the agency out of the situation would be of utmost importance. However after reading all the posts, it appears that it's so unlikely that this women even exists in Donetsk, that there isn't much point.  I would love to be able to send her a letter basically saying if it's really you, contact me here without the agency.  But if no woman in Donestk would even consider an American, then it's pointless.  I'm still unsure why a woman in Donestk would be anti American. Most Americans don't even really understand the situation there. I know we as a nation support Ukraine, but it certainly has very little, if any, to do with what life I would have with my future wife here.

Botheus had asked if she has children, from what the profile says, no.  For whatever that is worth.   

So  is it Mamba.com ?  I will try to find it. 

Thanks for the advice.   

[Patagonie]

Tootallbill:  I agree with your advice.  My rule was always you have to see them live to even start to consider them real.  I have said it before, I let this one go on far too long.  But I was pretty slow in  responding after I couldn't get real contact information.  I got taken for a few bucks, but I sure as hell wasn't going to spend every night writing to a woman who wouldn't give me her real contact info.  I think the oddest part was "she" insisted I share our "Plans" with my daughter so she is ready for us.  I never did, my daughter knows I would chat with women on line and thought this one was pretty, but that's all she ever knew. Pretty cold to try to lure a 15 year old girl into believing something that was a scam just to make a few bucks. 

Thanks for the links, even though some on this forum have made me out to be the biggest fool under the sun who should be ashamed of the oxygen I take from rest of humanity, I'm actually not that naive.  I had moment of wth, lets see what the next letter says.  I obviously said far too much when I posted.  How many people go to Vegas and keep pulling the handle when we all know they shouldn't? How many have spent far more on a romantic dinner only to never hear from the woman again?  I wonder how many spend 3, 4 or 5 grand on a romance tour only to come back home empty handed and plan to do it again.  If you make $300,000 a year, then it might be fine.  But for the rest of us who work for a living, that seems quite foolish. 

I'm curious now, where are you from?  Are you from Eastern Europe?  Do you remember any of it?  Sometimes I think I recall certain events from when we came here, but I'm not sure if it's just stories my mother told me filling in my subconscious. I recall some train car and boxes around me and my mother says that did happen.  She says she never told me about it because it was a miserable experience so I must remember it. I also recall being under something and being pulled out by my legs by someone, another thing she says she never talked about but says we that did happen too.  It was the USSR in 1968, weird things did happen there.  Anyway you are right, I grew up American.  What I know is the USA, not the USSR.  However, I did learn a few things about the culture of eastern Europe from my mother. 

Now I will say this, I don't really understand all the hype about Slavic women.  I am attracted to them, likely because of my own heritage.  But for anyone who thinks they are all so sweet and loving and unlike American women, what planet did they come from?  Ukrainian women can be the biggest B****s of all time.  Piss one off and stand by, she will slam you with the nearest heavy object she can lift.  Insult her and she will curse you out like a truck driver!  Don't like her food, she will ask you if you like it better this way, after she dumped your plate in your lap!  Yes they can be very passionate, but that passion can turn to rage in an instant.  They are raised in a culture where men still run the home, but that doesn't mean she won't tell you when you just screwed the pooch!  She will tell you that you are an idiot and ask what is wrong with you. My mothers favorite line was, "Are you normal".  She has since toned that down since it's common to be proud of not being normal.  Even she says that about herself now.  Honestly I think I can handle a Slavic woman just fine, but I grew up with one.  I dated a Russian girl in high school and remember her laughing at my Russian because I wasn't very good at gender association.  She was my first to be intimate with, so I guess I knew how to handle her, but they are certainly not the docile creatures these websites make them out to be!  I think a lot of guys are in for a surprise when they start to date them.

I have never stayed in a Ukrainian apartment.  Don't you give up some of the conveniences of a hotel?  Like a restaurant and bar in it?  I get some pretty big discounts on hotels because of my job, so it may not make as much sense to go the apartment route.  As far as the translator goes, to be honest, although my Russian sucks, my mother and my friends Ukrainian wife both have said any woman interested in me could understand it well enough to make it work.  I just can't understand it well when they speak fast.  "Goverish ne Tak Bwestree pozhousta?" My Russian spelling sucks, especially in Latin letters.

I totally agree getting the agency out of the situation would be of utmost importance. However after reading all the posts, it appears that it's so unlikely that this women even exists in Donetsk, that there isn't much point.  I would love to be able to send her a letter basically saying if it's really you, contact me here without the agency.  But if no woman in Donestk would even consider an American, then it's pointless.  I'm still unsure why a woman in Donestk would be anti American. Most Americans don't even really understand the situation there. I know we as a nation support Ukraine, but it certainly has very little, if any, to do with what life I would have with my future wife here.

Botheus had asked if she has children, from what the profile says, no.  For whatever that is worth.   

So  is it Mamba.com ?  I will try to find it. 

Thanks for the advice.

 
The russian propaganda is highly present and some people (ukrainian and russian) are against the americano ukraine gansta. That's binary

[BillyB]

- This whole endeavor  boils down to personal feelings, i. e. what your heart tells you.  Keep Skyping and you will eventually feel mutual interest with one or more women.  It likely will derive from a combination of chemistry, values, goals and beauty. 
 

Most men don't even Skype or call women before deciding to visit them. They just hop on a plane for a stranger. We've had guys here beaten up, hospitalized and robbed by FSW male friends because they didn't know the lady they were visiting. Call and Skype often boys and really get to know the ladies before you visit.

So  is it Mamba.com ?  I will try to find it. 

Not dot com. Mamba.ru is free and a good place to start. Pay a little extra and you can contact more ladies. Most women are looking for local boys though. Bride.ru advertises on Mamba and they get some ladies there to sign up on their site who are open to relocate. Mamba is in Russian but look for the flag symbol to change language if you need. You are used to how agency employees talk. Now you will get a dose of how real women talk.

[Spygreg]

Has anybody used "Cuteonly". com?  They keep sending me invites to join.  I have looked at their website, but have no idea how legit they are.   

[HoundDaddyLee]

Has anybody used "Cuteonly". com?  They keep sending me invites to join.  I have looked at their website, but have no idea how legit they are.

I paid them for about a year, 5 years ago. Only met one person that I felt was legit, but YMMV.


HDL

[jone]

I paid them for about a year, 5 years ago. Only met one person that I felt was legit, but YMMV.


HDL

That was really me, dressed in drag.  How did you like my make up? 

[HoundDaddyLee]

That was really me, dressed in drag.  How did you like my make up?

You were hot Jon.