Language, Culture, and Other Issues

[papakota]

Anotherkiwi,
Israel annexed Golan Hts. and E. Jerusalem, so what? Israel's capital is Jerusalem and in which city there's an embassy of NZ in Israel and WHY? Go check!

There's always been a conflict in Ukraine, even a decade ago if you went to ukrainian political forums all you could read was hate, hate, hate. Yanukovitch's supporters hated Yuschenko's supporters and vice versa. 10 years ago I was young and stupid enough to participate in those discussions.

"Soldiers from foreign countries tend not to get killed in "civil" wars."
Again, you're wrong about foreign soldiers and civil wars. There was a civil war in Lebanon in early 1980's. Lebanese Christians fought against local Muslims. Israel interfered and its soldiers invaded into Lebanon to help local Christian militia. It's when that famous Sabra and Shatila event happened. Remember Sharon?

So go do your homework before posting politics on Russian women dating forums.

P.S. Last, but not least... Why do you care about current conflict in Ukraine so much? If there were a conflict between Australia and New Zealand, people in neither Russia nor in Ukraine would care so much.

[msmob]

Papakota

Constantly pointing out the undeniable issues UA has...whilst ignoring which other nation ( to the north and east ) os far more involved in creating and maintaining chaos ...in combination with your insisting Moscow must be involved reveals much about how little you understand about Ukraine.

It would be foolish to deny that they are not helping themselves, nor to admit that certain western politicians familes sought to gain financial advantage.

When can you concede that the Kremlin stirred up polarising fear and hatred with the 'nazi' bollox ?

The UNCHR spokesperson ..back in eatly 2014..an Indian lady...warned of serious consequences... wars even...if such exaggerated rhetoric did not cease.

I blame the Russian leadership for trying to take advantage of Ukraine's political instability to try to redraw maps that were AGREED in 1991 and UA gave up her Nukes...became non aligned..in return for protection ...

Hmmm.

[papakota]

msmob,
I'm not gonna discuss current conflict in Ukraine. Period. That's not why I'm here. I come here to discuss dating of Russian women and life in Russia. Okay, I can extend it to talk about dating in Ukraine and life in Ukraine. And that's about it. What's the URL of this site? Is it russianukrainianconflictdiscussion.com? No.
Once I become Russian citizen, I would be more open to discuss politics, but something tells me that you're not gonna like what I have to say. Nobody likes the truth. So it's best not to discuss politics here. I respect your opinion and please respect mine. End of story.

[msmob]

msmob,
I'm not gonna discuss current conflict in Ukraine. Period. That's not why I'm here. I come here to discuss dating of Russian women and life in Russia. Okay, I can extend it to talk about dating in Ukraine and life in Ukraine. And that's about it. What's the URL of this site? Is it russianukrainianconflictdiscussion.com? No.
Once I become Russian citizen, I would be more open to discuss politics, but something tells me that you're not gonna like what I have to say. Nobody likes the truth. So it's best not to discuss politics here. I respect your opinion and please respect mine. End of story.

OK.. I could respect you - if you hadn't already discussed the situation in Ukraine - suggesting a 'solution' - involving the VERY nation stirring it up

[Anotherkiwi]

When fellow citizens of one nation fight each other..what do you call it?

It is a political stunt to deny the deep schisms that have been polarised into conflict...with one side trying to recreate 'novorossiya' ..being encouraged and  supported by a neighbouring nation...

A civil war starts when you have two factions within one country who go to war with each other when there is no outside interference.  That didn't happen in Ukraine, even when Yanukovich fled.  Crimea was a straight invasion by the "little green men" of the Russian armed forces; the conflict in the Donbas started only with the arrival of the Russian provocateurs such as Girkin.

[Anotherkiwi]

Anotherkiwi,
Israel annexed Golan Hts. and E. Jerusalem, so what? Israel's capital is Jerusalem and in which city there's an embassy of NZ in Israel and WHY? Go check!

It's you that should "go check!"  Jerusalem is NOT universally recognised as Israel's capital, and New Zealand does NOT have an embassy in Israel.  New Zealand's Ambassador to Turkey is also accredited to Israel (as well as Azerbaijan, Georgia, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority - an interesting mix), but we only have a Consulate there - in Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem.

There's always been a conflict in Ukraine, even a decade ago if you went to ukrainian political forums all you could read was hate, hate, hate. Yanukovitch's supporters hated Yuschenko's supporters and vice versa. 10 years ago I was young and stupid enough to participate in those discussions.

I'm not denying that there has been discord between different parties, but the occasional street rumble, no matter how violent, is way different from the current situation.

"Soldiers from foreign countries tend not to get killed in "civil" wars."
Again, you're wrong about foreign soldiers and civil wars. There was a civil war in Lebanon in early 1980's. Lebanese Christians fought against local Muslims. Israel interfered and its soldiers invaded into Lebanon to help local Christian militia. It's when that famous Sabra and Shatila event happened. Remember Sharon?

Exactly!  Israel interfered, and things escalated.  The difference in Ukraine is that the conflict didn't begin UNTIL the interference from Russia.

So go do your homework before posting politics on Russian women dating forums.

Perhaps you should do some too.

P.S. Last, but not least... Why do you care about current conflict in Ukraine so much? If there were a conflict between Australia and New Zealand, people in neither Russia nor in Ukraine would care so much.

Try looking at a map.    New Zealand and Australia do not have a common land border - they are separated by the Tasman Sea, 2,000 kilometres of what can sometimes be amongst the roughest sea conditions in the world.  Even though New Zealand was originally governed as part of New South Wales, that ceased in 1840, and it became an independent country before Australia did.  Unlike Russia and Ukraine, there is absolutely no history of ill-will between our two countries in respect of their colonial history.

I care about the conflict in Ukraine because it involves two countries that I fell in love with when I visited them, and I hate to see what's happening.  I know there are many reasons why it continues, and I simply wish that a way could be found to end it all, and to remove all the corruption in the two countries.  However, I'm not naïve enough to believe that this will happen in my lifetime - if ever.

[BillyB]

Best you go to Kyiv and realise that for most..speakung Russian is not a crime or unwise.

If UK finds itself in a war with Russia, they probably won't outlaw the Russian language but go ahead and speak to your fellow citizens in Russian and then come back and tell me how it worked out for you.

[JayH]

.. My family roots (on my mother's side) are in UKRAINE. Therefore, Constitution of Ukraine gives me a right to obtain a citizenship in Ukraine.

It would be best if you did not try while you hold your current inane ideas.

. 10 years ago I was young and stupid

Only one of those things has changed -= you are 10 years older ! 

[msmob]

A civil war starts when you have two factions within one country who go to war with each other when there is no outside interference.  That didn't happen in Ukraine, even when Yanukovich fled.  Crimea was a straight invasion by the "little green men" of the Russian armed forces; the conflict in the Donbas started only with the arrival of the Russian provocateurs such as Girkin.

OK ... going by your logic the Spanish Civil War is a misnomer ......


viz : 1/ Hilter's 'test run' for WWII tactics - aiding the 'nationalists' under Franco


        2/ Foreign volunteers - mainly aiding the 'republicans'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War#Foreign_involvement


Please 'excuse' my 'mistake'....

[msmob]

If UK finds itself in a war with Russia, they probably won't outlaw the Russian language but go ahead and speak to your fellow citizens in Russian and then come back and tell me how it worked out for you.

'Sorry', BillyB was that  you proving small-mindedness lack of knowledge to cover up that you are just WRONG about the use of Russian in most parts of Ukraine ?


Did the fact that the majority speak it in Odessa mean it is a city that - overall - that did not seek a more west leaning outlook ?

[papakota]

Anotherkiwi,
What's next, you'll start teaching me Hebrew? The reason I mentioned Israel was that it enjoys a visa-free regime with all Europe, NZ and Canada and nobody cares about an annexation. US gives Israel tens of billions of dollars lethal weapons help etc. etc. etc. Why it should be different in Russia vs. Ukraine conflict?
Something tells me that if Navalny or Yavlinsky win presidential elections in Russia in 2018, the West will have forgotten about existence of Crimea and Donbass.
Double standards are a norm in the West. Nobody complains about human rights violations in Saudi Arabia. But Belarus is always on the agenda etc.
There's no embassy of NZ in IL is probably, 'cos NZ is too small of a country to bother with it. Frankly, I didn't check that. But even if it's a consulate - same thing in this context.
I don't think that things escalated when Israel interfered in Lebanon. The fact is that civil war stopped eventually.
But that was not my point. The point is that you CAN have foreign soldiers in a civil war. Now there's a new term "a hybrid war". In Ukraine there's a hybrid war. 
And I mentioned AU and NZ as example of people minding their own business.
JayH,
What's wrong with my ideas? I only promoted fighting against corruption and the end of a language discrimination in Ukraine. It's all according to International Law. And stupid is the guy who shows support for Nazi collaborators in his forum's signature. Really Heroyam slava! Хероям слава! Glory to dicks!

[jone]

Yeah, Human rights in Russia.  Great topic.

I was rather hoping that in the next election they might elect Boris Nemptsov.  I hear he's very good on addressing human rights issues.  I tell ya what.  You guys elect Nemptsov and we will forgive the incursions into Ukraine.

[BillyB]

Western Ukrainians are more patriotic about their country than anywhere else in the country. One will be looked down upon if they're speaking Russian in western Ukraine. The more east one goes, they will find more and more people speaking Russian as their primary language. In Kiev, it can go either way.

'Sorry', BillyB was that  you proving small-mindedness lack of knowledge to cover up that you are just WRONG about the use of Russian in most parts of Ukraine ?

You mad Bro? Still hurting from Brexit to the point it's affecting your reading comprehension?

[JayH]

The point is that you CAN have foreign soldiers in a civil war. Now there's a new term "a hybrid war". In Ukraine there's a hybrid war. 
And I mentioned AU and NZ as example of people minding their own business.
JayH,
What's wrong with my ideas? I only promoted fighting against corruption and the end of a language discrimination in Ukraine. It's all according to International Law. And stupid is the guy who shows support for Nazi collaborators in his forum's signature. Really Heroyam slava! Хероям слава! Glory to dicks!

 I will repeat what was posted previously--it is NOT a civil war --it is a war perpetrated by the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  Your constant repetition that it is a civil war simply illustrates the degree you are swallowing Kremlin propaganda.

In the thread above --Moby has gone to the trouble of politely rebutting most of your points-- and he is far more sympathetic to Russia than I am.

For me-- I could not be bothered -- it is easier just to call you an idiot and leave it at that.

[papakota]

JayH,
I can tell you exactly what you told me, i.e., for me-- I could not be bothered -- it is easier just to call you an idiot and leave it at that. And the only reason why I didn't openly call you an idiot was because I don't want to be banned (if that's what happens here in such cases). After the exchange of compliments, please explain. You call it an occupation, war and invasion. So how do you explain the following:
1.) No state of war has been declared in Ukraine;
2.) There's still a visa-free regime between Russia and Ukraine;
3.) There's a direct train connection between Kiev and Moscow;
4.) Presidents of Ukraine and Russia meet and shake hands;
5.) You can go and buy goods from Ukraine in russian stores and probably vice versa;
6.) The border between Russia and Ukraine is open for crossing both ways;
7.) The conflict in Donbass is called ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation);
8.) There's a Russian embassy in Kiev and Ukrainian embassy in Moscow;
9.) Ukraine hasn't even formally left a CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States). СНГ;
10.) If Donbass is a war zone, then why Ukraine didn't close all civilian air traffic which led to MH17 tragedy?
11.) Why Ukraine still allows transit of Russian gas to Europe through its territory?
12.) Ukrainians from Donbass are refused refugee status in Europe;
13.) Savchenko (Ukrainian MP) freely visits Russia and comes back to Ukraine with no consequences.
14.) Russian state bank "Sberbank" operates in Ukraine. I have an account in it and 5000 RUR;
15.) When there was an active fighting in Donbass, Ukrainian soldiers fled to Russia proper and through Russian territory went to Ukraine.

Strange war. Just compare it to the relations of Israel and most Arab nations. That's war. Third country nationals can't even visit most Arab states if those nationals have Israeli stamps in their passports. It's probably one reason why in Russia one can get officially more than one passport (2 загранпаспорта).

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/12/15/secondpassport/

[JayH]

 

[papakota]

I hate smileys.

[jone]

He, he, you better take the train between Kyiv and Moskva.  Because you sure as hell can't fly there!

[LAman]

He, he, you better take the train between Kyiv and Moskva.  Because you sure as hell can't fly there!

And why can't you???? Of course, there is a connecting city/country.

[papakota]

And why can't you???? Of course, there is a connecting city/country.

Because Ukraine stopped direct flights about a year ago. To me it absolutely doesn't make any difference, 'cos I take the train anyway. If you want to flight, I would recommend to make a connection in Minsk. You don't need a Belorussian transit visa (only a regular Russian one to enter Russia in Moscow), but you'd only have 24 hrs. to make a transfer and you won't be able to leave a transit area of the airport in Minsk.

http://news.tut.by/society/375030.html

[Anotherkiwi]

OK ... going by your logic the Spanish Civil War is a misnomer ......


viz : 1/ Hilter's 'test run' for WWII tactics - aiding the 'nationalists' under Franco


        2/ Foreign volunteers - mainly aiding the 'republicans'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War#Foreign_involvement


Please 'excuse' my 'mistake'....

Read again what I wrote - "A civil war starts when you have two factions within one country who go to war with each other when there is no outside interference."

That is what happened in Spain as well.  The fact that foreigners got involved after it started doesn't change the origin of the conflict.  Same as in Lebanon, but different in Ukraine (as I posted above).

Mercenaries, idealistic volunteers and other interested military groups will always end up joining these conflicts at some point.

[Anotherkiwi]

Anotherkiwi,
What's next, you'll start teaching me Hebrew? The reason I mentioned Israel was that it enjoys a visa-free regime with all Europe, NZ and Canada and nobody cares about an annexation. US gives Israel tens of billions of dollars lethal weapons help etc. etc. etc. Why it should be different in Russia vs. Ukraine conflict?

I'm glad you agree that this conflict is Russia vs. Ukraine.  Added to which, the US may give huge military help to Israel, but it gives basically nothing to Ukraine.

Something tells me that if Navalny or Yavlinsky win presidential elections in Russia in 2018, the West will have forgotten about existence of Crimea and Donbass.

Unfortunately most already seem to.  This forum is one of very few Western-based places where there appears to be any attempt to keep what's happening in Ukraine in front of the public.

Double standards are a norm in the West. Nobody complains about human rights violations in Saudi Arabia. But Belarus is always on the agenda etc.

I don't know where you live, but people here protest against Saudi Arabia quite regularly.

I don't think that things escalated when Israel interfered in Lebanon. The fact is that civil war stopped eventually.
But that was not my point. The point is that you CAN have foreign soldiers in a civil war. Now there's a new term "a hybrid war". In Ukraine there's a hybrid war.

I never said that you can't have foreign soldiers in a civil war.  However, foreign soldiers don't ever START a civil war.  It doesn't matter what you call the conflict in Ukraine - it was fomented by Russia, financed by Russia, and involves Russian troops.
 

And I mentioned AU and NZ as example of people minding their own business.

Perhaps you could have made that clearer.

[jone]

Nah, Kiwi,

The 75th Paratrooper Division from Perm just disappeared off the face of the earth.  They didn't get killed in Eastern Ukraine by the Ukrainian Army.  How can you say that Russian troops were there from the onset?   

[papakota]

I'm a citizen of a neutral country on a dating forum. Not more and not less. Once I become Russian citizen, I'll share my personal thoughts on current political events. Though I personally don't see any connection between dating Russian women and politics. If it was a forum of foreign women who wish to meet Russian men, then maybe politics would've been somewhat important. But local women generally don't care too much about it. End of story.

[jone]

Yet you continuously insert yourself into that discussion.