Language, Culture, and Other Issues

[jone]

Faux Pas,

My take is that this forum contributor is:

1.  Elusive about who he/she is and where he/she is from.

2.  Claims not to wish to talk about politics, yet spews the Kremlin line over every thread and interaction he/she has on the forum.

3.  Will ignore facts to make his/her case and spread Kremlin dis-information with disdain of any of the other forum members.

Seems like his/her address is likely a certain house in St. Petersburg where all of the forum trolls hang out.

A troll is a troll is a troll. 

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,

My take is that this forum contributor is:

1.  Elusive about who he/she is and where he/she is from.

2.  Claims not to wish to talk about politics, yet spews the Kremlin line over every thread and interaction he/she has on the forum.

3.  Will ignore facts to make his/her case and spread Kremlin dis-information with disdain of any of the other forum members.

Seems like his/her address is likely a certain house in St. Petersburg where all of the forum trolls hang out.

A troll is a troll is a troll.

Or simply Belvis lost his password?

[Anotherkiwi]

Or simply Belvis lost his password?

I don't think his style is similar enough to Belvis.

However - can the moderators please split all this stuff off into a separate thread?  I actually agree with Papakota here - all of this sidebar, while interesting in itself, has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and deserves to be recognised by itself.

[Faux Pas]

I don't think his style is similar enough to Belvis.

However - can the moderators please split all this stuff off into a separate thread?  I actually agree with Papakota here - all of this sidebar, while interesting in itself, has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and deserves to be recognised by itself.

I disagree. The sidebar stuff is nothing but tripe. I am almost ashamed I contributed to it 

[Yes]

Putin's game is not to negotiate a peace, even an exchange of withdrawal from Eastern Ukraine in exchange for recognition of Krim.  Putin's game is to stop, at any cost, Ukraine moving to the West and adopting a Western style society and standard of living - similar to what Poland has accomplished.

You have no idea what Putin's end game is. But hey, you can guess.

Putin knows if he occupies Eastern Ukraine, as Russia has done with Transnisteria, then he will have a knife at the side of the Ukrainian government and can slice open Ukraine whenever he wants.

More nonsense.

It is for this reason that I now advocate that the US offer for sale limited lethal weaponry.  The only way Ukraine is going to survive is to send so many Russians home in Cargo200 trucks that Russia feels the pain it is inflicting on Ukraine.  And, in spite of what our friends in Russia say, there are many times many such trucks that have made the trip back across the border into the home cities of where these young Russian heros are from.

Were you drunk when you wrote this? Do yo have any idea how many Ukrainians will be sent home the same way?

This is definitely not the answer.   

This guy writes a bunch of horse manure.  The reason people are more inclined to support Ukraine on this forum is that they don't like seeing one country invade another.

Let's see, America is currently involved in 5 different wars simultaneously (Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria) and you have the balls to say this. Talk about horse manure. Wait, don't tell me, America invaded was invited to these countries.

I understand this is a pro-Ukrainian board, but when does common sense take place, when you decide? What a crock. Do as I say not as I do. Sound familiar Americans.

You all can talk about this treaty or that referendum, but until America/the West, e.g.NATO stop marching eastward to the Russian border, I would do exactly what Putin has done and protect Russian interests. If you want to talk about broken promises, let's start with America.

Russia has been subsidizing Ukraine for many, many years, and its leaders have been stealing from Russia for many years as well. The problems in Ukraine didn't magically happen because of Russia. It's time Ukraine took responsibility for its problems. Ukraine is a failed state because of Ukraine and its leaders.

All of your postulating is a bunch of hot air.  And before you think you know more history about your adopted country than, say, the number of Russian historians on this forum, don't you think it would be appropriate to find out who you were talking to?

There are no Russian experts on this board; none!!

[jone]

Well, I hope you like the Jim Jones Kool Aid. 

Poroshenko is not on Russia's payroll.  In case you didn't read, Russia shut down his Roshen chocolate factory in Lipetsk.  In 2013 Russia also prohibited Poroshenko from exporting chocolate to Russia.  Dangerous stuff, that chocolate.  I hear its addictive.

As for Ukrainians obtaining lethal aid from the US?  Well, yes, when you are fighting for your homeland, people do die.  My guess is that the more Russians that are killed in Eastern Ukraine, where they have invaded, the better it is for the Ukrainians.  So, I am all for sending all of the Russians presently in Eastern Ukraine home in Cargo200 trucks.  Since there are no Russians in Eastern Ukraine, this shouldn't be a problem.   

Russia has fallen into the same trap as in the early 1980s.  Belligerence, coupled with military spending that it cannot afford has left it without any safety net as far as money supply.  The petro dollar fund is all but exhausted.  Lack of trade due to sanctions has exacerbated the lack of cash in the government.  And your government continues to enact laws to further restrict freedoms.

I notice that you do not compare Russia to Poland.  Poland has geometrically smaller natural resources than Russia yet continues to increase the standard of living for its citizens.  Russia, with all of its resources, continues to decrease the standard of living of average Ivan.  Poland converted to a marginal Republic status and continues to exercise democratic principles.  At the time of the fall of communism, Poland was much worse off than Russia.  Now why do you think their countries and economies are going in opposite directions?

Putin could ill afford having a Western leaning democratic Ukraine on its Western border.  Having forsworn such tendencies in its own society, the only course of action contemplated was to thwart reforms in Ukraine.

Yes, do you spend your days in the same house in St. Petersburg that our other Kremlin apologist does?

[Boethius]

"Yes" is chivo/Danchik.

[jone]

Dammit, Danchik,

Why didn't you say so.  I take everything back about the house in Peter.  How the hell are ya?  When you're back in CA next time, look me up and I'll buy dinner and we can settle all of this looking over the water in Newport.

And thanks, Boe, for pointing it out. 

[papakota]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html

So now you go from "they refused to acknowledge responsibility" to "Why did it take so long?"

I assume it would be because authorities needed to confirm it was a shrapnel from a missile that brought down the plane. 

I'll deal with the rest of your disinformation later.

Where did you see disinformation? Show me. I just present sources that are open to everyone, like Wikipedia and such. I'm not a military expert, but to me it doesn't make any sense what you said. You send a missile, it hits the plane and it goes down. What there's to confirm? What, they didn't know where the missile went and where the plane was flying? Every plane has a CONFIRMED ROUTE by authorities of airspace country. Why Ukrainians had a missile test site in the same exact place where commercial planes were flying? Why stuff like that systematically happens only in Ukraine? Why it doesn't happen, say, in Russia or in Israel? Ukraine is not the only country in the world that has missiles and planes flying in its air. And if they did confirm after a week, then how come in the court they said otherwise according to Wikipedia? And why there was a court hearing to begin with? If they admitted and paid the compensation to victims' families. In short, it just doesn't make sense.
I know one thing. In a normal country neither that tragedy nor MH17 wouldn't be happening. War zone? Close the airspace. Missile tests? Don't let commercial planes get anywhere near it. Especially foreign ones. As simple as that.

[Gator]

I disagree. The sidebar stuff is nothing but tripe. I am almost ashamed I contributed to it 

It is more relevant to understanding FSUW than running victory laps about Trump's election.   I support creating a separate thread.  Most casual readers seeing the title would come here thinking it would help them find a woman like Melania.

[papakota]

You are apparently awash in denial. Both the Dutch and a Joint investigation team have already investigated and concluded who did it. Not that it was any secret. To reach a plane at 30K feet the only weapon within 500 miles that could reach that plane was a BUK and the only one there was controlled by Russian separatists. I realize your loyalties but seriously, get your head out of your ass

You're very polite. It's a sign of Western democracy probably. Or maybe you grew up with Putin in Leningrad? It's his style of conversation. Like to piss on terrorists in toilets. Why do you criticize him? You're exactly his twin brother.
Unlike you, I'm a civilized person who can conduct a polite dialog with people.
Well, lyrics aside, that investigation team published its preliminary report couple months ago and it's been almost 2,5 years since MH17 tragedy. Why Ukrainians couldn't have their own BUK within reach of MH17 plane? How do you know where Ukrainian BUKs are being stored? Did they give you a map or something?

[papakota]

jone,
Why do I have to identify myself? I don't see anybody here who has their identity revealed. Once I get my Russian citizenship, I might be more inclined to share more personal information about myself. If anyone would care to know.

I have not said a single word defending Putin's foreign policy. But fair is fair and here I totally agree with yes when he wrote that "Ukraine is a failed state because of Ukraine and its leaders". As a matter of fact, my country of citizenship recently voted AGAINST Russia in UN General Assembly vote about Crimea. Personally I don't care about Crimea and Donbass. I was in both places and I didn't like them to put it nicely. Like I said before, the only region of Ukraine I like is Western Ukraine. An average Russian pro Putin guy would never say that.

I'm not a troll, I'm just a guy who thinks with his head. Initially I wasn't even talking about politics. I just said that in Russia there are lots of advantages for someone who wants to get married. Then some guys here started to mention a conflict in Ukraine all the time. They kept saying that "bad" Russia invaded "good" Ukraine. And according to their stupid logic, that must lead to Westerners ignoring Russian women altogether as potential marriage candidates. That's why I got into this discussion in the first place. I personally couldn't care less about Putin, Crimea and Donbass. I didn't vote for Putin and I never will and I will never again visit those two places. BUT as a Russian permanent resident and hopefully soon a Russian citizen, I must recognize Crimea as part of Russia. That's a LAW in Russia. As simple as that. Same as if you're an Israeli, you must recognize Jerusalem as capital and Golan Heights as part of Israel.
Donbass is a different story. In Russia it's considered to be a part of Ukraine. I've already mentioned Turkey invading
Northern Cyprus and still being a NATO country and no one seems to care. So why do you care about conflict in Ukraine all of a sudden? In the world, there are lots of disputed areas. So what? My country of citizenship doesn't recognize Kosovo. Should I now start accusing most of Western countries because they do recognize it? I'm smart enough not to get into it. It's none of my business, same as it's none of business of Westerners what's going on in former USSR. Would it be MY business if America occupies Southern California? Would I be repeatedly talking about "bad" America and "good" Mexico? I highly doubt. US invaded God knows how many countries and somehow I never said a single bad word about it. Then why do you badmouth Russia all the time?

[papakota]

Boethius,
I'm not gonna write a scientific essay about Ukraine and problems it facing. I said what I said. Those who have ears would listen. I said that if in Ukraine Russian was a second official language and so forth, then this current conflict could've been avoided. If Ukraine enjoys losing Crimea and having a conflict in Donbass and thinks that it's better than to have a second official language, then it's fine by me. My personal impression is that over 50% of all Ukrainians speak Russian in the streets. At least that's how it was in 1988, 2005 and 2013. I highly doubt that now suddenly Russian speakers speak Ukrainian. But I don't know. One in his right mind can't compare it to less than 1% of Hungarian speakers with all due respect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Finland
Finnish and Swedish are the official languages of Finland. Swedish is the native language of 5% of the population.

I never said that people were afraid in Ukraine to express their opinions. I said that it's not politically correct in most of Ukraine to publicly defend Russian language and most people tend to be conformists by nature.

Bandera is just a symbol. I used his name as a generalization for Ukrainian nationalists during WWII. To be fair, Bandera personally was not so pro-Nazi, as another wing in the movement was. Here's another example Ukraine's "heroes":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatyn_massacre
Khatyn was a village of 26 houses and 156 inhabitants in Belarus, in Lahoysk Raion, Minsk Region, 50 km away from Minsk. On 22 March 1943, the entire population of the village was massacred by the Schutzmannschaft Battalion 118 of Ukrainische Hilfspolizei. The battalion was formed in July 1942 in Kiev and was made up mostly of Ukrainian nationalist collaborators from Western Ukraine and Hiwis, assisted by the Dirlewanger Waffen-SS special battalion.

I know one thing. A significant percentage of Ukrainian nationalists during WWII was actively participating in Nazi crimes in occupied areas of Ukraine and Belarus. These guys are considered heroes in Ukraine.
I never said that Ukraine was a pro-Nazi country. Especially considering that it's Prime Minister is Jewish. I just said that Nazi glorification in modern Ukraine is what Putin uses when he tries to persuade Russians to support him. Again, if for Ukrainians Bandera was more important than keeping Crimea and a peace in Donbass, it's their business, not mine.
I just present the facts. Bandera ended up in a concentration camp not because of his anti Nazi position, but because he wanted independence for Ukraine and Nazis didn't like the idea. If they liked, he would've been free and collaborating with them. Collaboration with Nazis should be a crime, regardless of reasons why collaboration occurred. Independent Ukraine is not an accuse to commit genocide. I'm well aware of NKVD crimes in Western Ukraine. But it's not a justification for Volyn, Khatyn, Babiy Yar etc. What's the connection between NKVD crimes in Lvov in 1941 and Volyn massacre in 1943? You said it's understandable.
I never heard of Polish genocide of Ukrainians during WWII.

Don't teach me Ukrainian and its connotations. In modern Ukraine they say "євреї". Same as in modern Russian "евреи". Absolutely no different.

http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Євреї
Українська назва «єврей» прийшла з російської мови.

Therefore, logically speaking, it shouldn't be any different than in Russia. And in Russia it's well known that a word "жид" has a very negative connotation. From a purely linguistic point of you, you're right. But de facto "zhid" in both Ukraine and Russia is equal to "kike" in English and everyone here understands it this way. Do they say "євреї" or "zhidva"? So go and tell your fairytales to babushkas.




As per Tyagnibok or Tyahnybok, he enjoys a widespread support in Ukraine. I think he's very popular. Some stuff he says makes sense. But that's not what we talk about here. The point is that one of the leaders of post Yanukovitch Ukraine is openly Anti Semitic and publicly called for ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. Again, something that Putin uses in his propaganda here. I never heard in Russia public speeches against Ukrainians living here or anybody else for that matter. Not even from Russian nationalists.

It's not all black and white in this conflict as some of you say. It's a grey area. There are no clear good guys and bad guys. So it's best to stay neutral, especially if you're a third country national.

[JayH]

1/You have no idea what Putin's end game is. But hey, you can guess.
More nonsense.
2/Were you drunk when you wrote this? Do yo have any idea how many Ukrainians will be sent home the same way?

This is definitely not the answer.   

3/Let's see, America is currently involved in 5 different wars simultaneously (Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria) and you have the balls to say this. Talk about horse manure. Wait, don't tell me, America invaded was invited to these countries.

4/I understand this is a pro-Ukrainian board, but when does common sense take place, when you decide? What a crock. Do as I say not as I do. Sound familiar Americans.

5/You all can talk about this treaty or that referendum, but until America/the West, e.g.NATO stop marching eastward to the Russian border, I would do exactly what Putin has done and protect Russian interests. If you want to talk about broken promises, let's start with America.

6/Russia has been subsidizing Ukraine for many, many years, and its leaders have been stealing from Russia for many years as well. The problems in Ukraine didn't magically happen because of Russia. It's time Ukraine took responsibility for its problems. Ukraine is a failed state because of Ukraine and its leaders.

7/There are no Russian experts on this board; none!!

1/

Putin's end game is obvious enough. As far as Ukraine is concerned-- to control Ukraine. You actually say it yourself later in your post !
The nonsense you refer to is yours.

2/
 Ukraine not being able to defend itself? That is the answer-- given the capacity to totally negate the Russian forces and remove them from Ukraine is the answer --FOR UKRAINE !   Dead Russian military will raise the Russian consciousness of the Russian population in general to Putin and his Kremlin's actions.That awareness will be the seed to reform Russia.

3/

Typically-- in your glad bag of America being responsible for everything you throw in these diversionary comments. Really just more Russian bs.

4/

Funny how you ( & others) are so quick to label this forum as pro-Ukrainian. Many members here are married to fsuw from a number of countries. Fortunately having a Russian wife has not blinded most to the failings of the Russian regime and it's behaviour towards the rest of the world -- and in particular over the invasion of Ukraine.
The reality is that it is you that is in the 3% that cannot see Russia for what it is-- and the actions of this Russian government internationally unacceptable..Whenever you write every excuse (blame everyone else) is made for the self inflicted pariah states behaviour as you attempt to rationalise unacceptable actions.
This forum allows positive comment on Ukraine --by way of contrast in the other place that expels and bans members in an ad hoc attempt to control content.
Common sense would say Russia should get out of Ukraine !

5/

It has nothing to do with America. Ukraine was not inviting NATO in--in fact at the time of the invasion of Crimea Ukraine had rejected the idea.
Breaking very specific treaties is a Russian speciality-- sign up and ignore when it suits you.Russia will never be trusted internationally again.
You continually sprout the Kremlin propaganda lines -- effectively lies designed to cloud issues-- and divert from the Kremlin's real intent.

6/

Ukraine stealing from Russia? mmm put it this way--the kleptocrats in both countries were doing the stealing.
But-- needless to say-- as far as Ukraine is concerned-- the people of Ukraine rose up at maidan in the attempt to change the course of it's government and free the country of the shackles of corruption. Of course--that did not suit Russia !
To note-- Ukraine is doing something about it-- despite Russia's attempts to stop them.
You take the Ukraine" failed state" of the Kremlin trolls--- utter bs. Since Maidan-- considerable progress has been made in Ukraine -despite all the Russian attempts to disrupt .Having to fight a territorial war and have Russia occupying a good slice of Ukraine has been a huge impediment to going forward-- which despite everything  Ukraine's economy is improving.
All that makes a mockery of your comments.

7/

No Russian experts here? Least of all is you. You are located in Russia --yet have little understanding of most of what you write about.You write as a failed American-- someone that was incompetent in life and business - so you retreat to another world.

[jone]

jone,
Why do I have to identify myself? I don't see anybody here who has their identity revealed. Once I get my Russian citizenship, I might be more inclined to share more personal information about myself. If anyone would care to know.

I haven't said a single word defending Putin's foreign policy. But fair is fair and here I totally agree with yes when he wrote that "Ukraine is a failed state because of Ukraine and its leaders". As a matter of fact, my country of citizenship recently voted AGAINST Russia in UN General Assembly vote about Crimea. Personally I don't care about Crimea and Donbass. I was in both places and I didn't like them to put it nicely. Like I said before, the only region of Ukraine I like is Western Ukraine. An average Russian pro-Putin guy would never say that.

I'm not a troll, I'm just a guy who thinks with his head. Initially I wasn't even talking about politics. I just said that in Russia there are lots of advantages for someone who wants to get married. Then some guys here started to mention a conflict in Ukraine all the time. They kept saying that "bad" Russia invaded "good" Ukraine. And according to their stupid logic, that must lead to Westerners ignoring Russian women altogether as potential marriage candidates. That's why I got into this discussion in the first place. I personally couldn't care less about Putin, Crimea and Donbass. I didn't vote for Putin and I never will and I will never again visit those two places. BUT as a Russian permanent resident and hopefully soon a Russian citizen, I must recognize Crimea as part of Russia. That's a LAW in Russia. As simple as that. Same as if you're an Israeli, you must recognize Jerusalem as capital and Golan Heights as part of Israel.
Donbass is a different story. In Russia it's considered to be a part of Ukraine. I've already mentioned Turkey invading
Northern Cyprus and still being a NATO country and no one seems to care. So why do you care about conflict in Ukraine all of a sudden? In the world, there are lots of disputed areas. So what? My country of citizenship doesn't recognize Kosovo. Should I now start accusing most of Western countries because they do recognize it? I'm smart enough not to get into it. It's none of my business, same as it's none of business of Westerners what's going on in former USSR. Would it be MY business if America occupies Southern California? Would I be repeatedly talking about "bad" America and "good" Mexico? I highly doubt. US invaded God knows how many countries and somehow I never said a single bad word about it. Then why do you badmouth Russia all the time?

I don't care if you identify yourself or not.  You sound like Lord Haw Haw from WWII fame.  Your references to your original country have no bearing if they cannot be validated, which they cannot because you refuse to identify which country you are from.  That was my observation.   For some reason, you choose to keep it a (shhhh!) secret.  To me that means further misdirection and deceipt.

You have intentionally misrepresented many of the things you have talked about, and that is what creates ire on the part of some of the users of this forum.  For instance, while I defer to Boe on Russian language, your statements of what did and what did not transpire regarding languages keeps changing from one post to the next as you are 'caught out'.  Your statements regarding MH17 are reprehensible.  They mirror all of the disinformation coming out from the Kremlin.  Innocents died on that plane and there is not a shred of credible evidence that it was any other than a Russian Buk team operating under the auspicies of the puppet government established in Donbass.  Everything from videos of contrails to the make of the Buk and pieces thereof that were recovered from the wreckage to social media confessions/acclimations demonstrate both credible evidence and authorship of the attack.   When someone tags you with your outlandish tales, you quickly change the subject.  That is the mark of a troll.

As for your take of the people of this particular forum, we have largely accepted the intrigue of the Russian trolls who come here from time to time.  The fact that we don't put up with their B.S. does not mean that many of the members do not have an endearing love of Russia and her people.  We do.  I have had residence in four different Russian cities over a long period of time.  I have also been in Ukraine numerous times.  For us to see Russian tanks and troops entering into cities that we have known and loved, it is a little too much for us to endure.  Thus the rude responses. 

I have said this before and I will say it again:  Nothing is more uncultured than for a country to send its own troops into a foreign territory to fight for goals that are undisclosed and to die for those goals.  And when it comes to honoring the dead, the country will not even recognize them because they are telling a big lie to the rest of the world.  For me, I spit on the Russian government for having such little honor.  You perpetrate that lie. Maybe you should put that in your pipe and smoke it rather than having diarrhea of the mouth on this forum.  There are few, if any, here, who take you at face value.

[BillyB]

Ukraine is a failed state because of Ukraine and its leaders.

Ukraine is a failed state because of it's leaders is correct. Russia supports and even protects these leaders after they get ousted. If Russia want's Ukraine to get on the right path, they got to be supporting different people. They don't want Ukraine on the right path.

[papakota]

Poroshenko is not on Russia's payroll.  In case you didn't read, Russia shut down his Roshen chocolate factory in Lipetsk.  In 2013 Russia also prohibited Poroshenko from exporting chocolate to Russia.  Dangerous stuff, that chocolate.  I hear its addictive.

As for Ukrainians obtaining lethal aid from the US?  Well, yes, when you are fighting for your homeland, people do die.  My guess is that the more Russians that are killed in Eastern Ukraine, where they have invaded, the better it is for the Ukrainians.  So, I am all for sending all of the Russians presently in Eastern Ukraine home in Cargo200 trucks.  Since there are no Russians in Eastern Ukraine, this shouldn't be a problem.   

Russia has fallen into the same trap as in the early 1980s.  Belligerence, coupled with military spending that it cannot afford has left it without any safety net as far as money supply.  The petro dollar fund is all but exhausted.  Lack of trade due to sanctions has exacerbated the lack of cash in the government.  And your government continues to enact laws to further restrict freedoms.

I notice that you do not compare Russia to Poland.  Poland has geometrically smaller natural resources than Russia yet continues to increase the standard of living for its citizens.  Russia, with all of its resources, continues to decrease the standard of living of average Ivan.  Poland converted to a marginal Republic status and continues to exercise democratic principles.  At the time of the fall of communism, Poland was much worse off than Russia.  Now why do you think their countries and economies are going in opposite directions?

Putin could ill afford having a Western leaning democratic Ukraine on its Western border.  Having forsworn such tendencies in its own society, the only course of action contemplated was to thwart reforms in Ukraine.

Yes, do you spend your days in the same house in St. Petersburg that our other Kremlin apologist does?

I live in Moscow area. You lied about Roshen factory in Lipetsk. As a matter of fact, I buy soft candies that are made there on a regular basis. Though they're being packed in Zelenograd, Moscow for some reason. As per chocolate, you're right. I think Russia banned Roshen chocolate imported from Ukraine. Poroshenko had promised to sell his factory in Russia, but he broke his promise. What else is new.

I've already given reasons why US doesn't supply lethal weapons to Ukraine.

In 1980's Soviet people didn't believe the regime. Now most Russians do believe Putin. Big difference.

No need to convince me. I know all that already. Convince the Russians.

Putin's agenda in Ukraine doesn't justify corruption in Ukraine, Nazi glorification and a unfair linguistic status quo.
If Ukraine were less corrupt than Russia, Bandera weren't a hero and Russian were a second official language, then probably Putin wouldn't have good excuses to explain his actions to Russian people. Guys like you support Putin, while you might be thinking that I do. You prove him right in the eyes of Russian public and you discredit Russian opposition. Ukraine got what it deserved. Loss of Crimea and most of Donbass and a farewell to EU membership. Though at some point they probably will get a visa free regime to Schengen countries. But it won't include the UK.

[papakota]

Ukraine is a failed state because of it's leaders is correct. Russia supports and even protects these leaders after they get ousted. If Russia want's Ukraine to get on the right path, they got to be supporting different people. They don't want Ukraine on the right path.

Putin makes all the decisions. So instead of Russia, say Putin.

[papakota]

I don't care if you identify yourself or not.  You sound like Lord Haw Haw from WWII fame.  Your references to your original country have no bearing if they cannot be validated, which they cannot because you refuse to identify which country you are from.  That was my observation.   For some reason, you choose to keep it a (shhhh!) secret.  To me that means further misdirection and deceipt.

You have intentionally misrepresented many of the things you have talked about, and that is what creates ire on the part of some of the users of this forum.  For instance, while I defer to Boe on Russian language, your statements of what did and what did not transpire regarding languages keeps changing from one post to the next as you are 'caught out'.  Your statements regarding MH17 are reprehensible.  They mirror all of the disinformation coming out from the Kremlin.  Innocents died on that plane and there is not a shred of credible evidence that it was any other than a Russian Buk team operating under the auspicies of the puppet government established in Donbass.  Everything from videos of contrails to the make of the Buk and pieces thereof that were recovered from the wreckage to social media confessions/acclimations demonstrate both credible evidence and authorship of the attack.   When someone tags you with your outlandish tales, you quickly change the subject.  That is the mark of a troll.

As for your take of the people of this particular forum, we have largely accepted the intrigue of the Russian trolls who come here from time to time.  The fact that we don't put up with their B.S. does not mean that many of the members do not have an endearing love of Russia and her people.  We do.  I have had residence in four different Russian cities over a long period of time.  I have also been in Ukraine numerous times.  For us to see Russian tanks and troops entering into cities that we have known and loved, it is a little too much for us to endure.  Thus the rude responses. 

I have said this before and I will say it again:  Nothing is more uncultured than for a country to send its own troops into a foreign territory to fight for goals that are undisclosed and to die for those goals.  And when it comes to honoring the dead, the country will not even recognize them because they are telling a big lie to the rest of the world.  For me, I spit on the Russian government for having such little honor.  You perpetrate that lie. Maybe you should put that in your pipe and smoke it rather than having diarrhea of the mouth on this forum.  There are few, if any, here, who take you at face value.

You keep lying and you accuse me of being a liar. Show me where I lied. I don't justify Putin's actions in Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter. Where did I argue about MH17? Even if it's Russia who did it, then what? What it has to do with me? And what it has to do with dating in Russia. What it has to do with corruption in Ukraine, status of Russian language there and glorification of Nazi collaborators in Ukraine? You're a rude redneck (жлоб) who is not civilized and who tries to present himself as a moral compass. Or you're a neo Nazi like guys on stormfront.org

You should address your rude responses to a guy who sent the tanks. But you're a coward to do that and all you can do is to be rude to a neutral person who is a citizen of a country that has no business in this whole story. Once I become a Russian citizen, it would be somewhat different. But even then, you won't have any right to badmouth me in public.
If you're such a hero, you're more than welcome to join Ukrainian Army. They do recruit foreign nationals now. And if you're a coward who sits on a couch somewhere in Missouri, then keep your mouth shut.

As per country of my citizenship. What it has to do with anything? Lots of people don't reveal that information. Why should I? Just because someone posts from the US, doesn't mean he's an American. He could be British with a Green Card. So let's ask everybody here to present scans of their passports. I live in Russia and KGB does not sleep.
Also I have safety concerns to reveal too much of my personal information online. And I don't have to. What it has to do with deceit?

[JayH]

You keep lying and you accuse me of being a liar. Show me where I lied. I don't justify Putin's actions in Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter. Where did I argue about MH17? Even if it's Russia who did it, then what? What it has to do with me?

\

You attempt to shift ground on virtually every issue  you raise.
You do justify Putin & Russia's actions throughout your posts.
You did argue about MH 17.the obvious evidence-you ignore it.
You did state Ukrainians would never get Schengen access -- then a few days later agreement is reached- no comment from you.
On Russian language in Ukraine-- your erroneous comments are corrected--but you ignore responses and  repeat earlier bs and even attempt to expand on it!
All that equals are degree of ignorance that is amazing.
You lace your posts with insulting language when it is pointed out how far from reality you are.

The biggest joke--you keep saying this is a "dating" site ! Even if it was ( and it is not !!!)--why are the large majority of your posts laced with politically contentious comments?

[papakota]

\

You attempt to shift ground on virtually every issue  you raise.
You do justify Putin & Russia's actions throughout your posts.
You did argue about MH 17.the obvious evidence-you ignore it.
You did state Ukrainians would never get Schengen access -- then a few days later agreement is reached- no comment from you.
On Russian language in Ukraine-- your erroneous comments are corrected--but you ignore responses and  repeat earlier bs and even attempt to expand on it!
All that equals are degree of ignorance that is amazing.
You lace your posts with insulting language when it is pointed out how far from reality you are.

The biggest joke--you keep saying this is a "dating" site ! Even if it was ( and it is not !!!)--why are the large majority of your posts laced with politically contentious comments?

On and on and on.

1.) I did say and I'm saying here that I don't like Putin. Though mostly because I think he's bad for Russia. But also I don't like his confrontation with the West. I will not vote for him.
2.) I didn't say anything about MH17 in terms of who had done it.
3.) I said that Ukraine would get access to Schengen. I said that EU membership is unlikely story.
4.) I only expressed my personal opinion that if about half of the population speaks a certain language, that language should be official in that country. If I were a Ukrainian citizen, I would consider current situation a discrimination. You have a right to disagree.
5.) Of course this site is about dating Russian women in Russia. Hopefully not about gay dating in SF. You live in Australia and you don't like Russia. Then what are you doing here?

[BillyB]

Putin makes all the decisions. So instead of Russia, say Putin.

True but Putin doesn't live forever. Russia will continue to enjoy Putin's conquests.

I don't justify Putin's actions in Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter.

You did say Ukraine deserves everything it got, including losing Crimea. Sounds like you're on board with all of Putin's actions in Ukraine.

[Boethius]

I'm not gonna write a scientific essay about Ukraine and problems it facing. I said what I said. Those who have ears would listen. I said that if in Ukraine Russian was a second official language and so forth, then this current conflict could've been avoided. If Ukraine enjoys losing Crimea and having a conflict in Donbass and thinks that it's better than to have a second official language, then it's fine by me. My personal impression is that over 50% of all Ukrainians speak Russian in the streets. At least that's how it was in 1988, 2005 and 2013. I highly doubt that now suddenly Russian speakers speak Ukrainian. But I don't know. One in his right mind can't compare it to less than 1% of Hungarian speakers with all due respect.

No, you are wrong about that.  This had zero to do with language.  The conflict in Donbas was started by oligarchs who had much to lose with a new government (not that the current government's oligarchs are any better). 

The point about 50% is that 25 years ago, it was 99.99%.  That is what a policy of Ukrainization has achieved in one generation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Finland
Finnish and Swedish are the official languages of Finland. Swedish is the native language of 5% of the population.

How is this relevant?

I never said that people were afraid in Ukraine to express their opinions. I said that it's not politically correct in most of Ukraine to publicly defend Russian language and most people tend to be conformists by nature.

That is untrue.  There is nowhere in Ukraine, not even in the West, where people speaking in Russian are oppressed.  Almost all business in Central Ukraine is conducted in Russian.  So, there really is no need to defend the Russian language.  Most people in Ukraine simply don't care.

Bandera is just a symbol. I used his name as a generalization for Ukrainian nationalists during WWII. To be fair, Bandera personally was not so pro-Nazi, as another wing in the movement was. Here's another example Ukraine's "heroes":

Please show me where Ukrainians have erected a monument to the perpetrators of Khatyn. 

I know one thing. A significant percentage of Ukrainian nationalists during WWII was actively participating in Nazi crimes in occupied areas of Ukraine and Belarus. These guys are considered heroes in Ukraine.

Actually, you don't know that.  This has actually been studied by real scholars.  The conclusion is that Ukraine did not have any more collaborators than in any other country occupied by the Nazis, and that figure is just over 2%.

Before the collapse of the USSR, scholars could only rely on German documents in studying war crimes in Ukraine.  There are a number of German reports from L'viv to Berlin stating that the Germans could not whip up the local population to conduct a pogrom, one of the first things the Germans wanted to do.  Their attempts met with indifference.

The lack of documentation from the Ukrainian side meant that scholars could never know what actually occurred.  The NKVD, and later, the KGB, had created many false documents to augment OUN-UPA war crimes.  However, since the collapse of the USSR, scholars have reviewed real archives from the era (some on L'viv, but the majority in Moscow).  Those do prove that a very small percentage of UPA members participated as auxiliary police in the first pogrom in L'viv, and also helped in the deportation of L'viv's Jews. 

I never said that Ukraine was a pro-Nazi country. Especially considering that it's Prime Minister is Jewish. I just said that Nazi glorification in modern Ukraine is what Putin uses when he tries to persuade Russians to support him. Again, if for Ukrainians Bandera was more important than keeping Crimea and a peace in Donbass, it's their business, not mine.

But there is no Nazi glorification in Ukraine.  That is Russian propaganda. 

Yes, I agree it was used, and in Donbas, effectively, because the population there is quite obscure. But, that doesn't mean it is accurate propaganda.

I just present the facts. Bandera ended up in a concentration camp not because of his anti Nazi position, but because he wanted independence for Ukraine and Nazis didn't like the idea. If they liked, he would've been free and collaborating with them.

Bandera always stated Ukrainians must rely on themselves, that no one, including the Germans, was interested in an independent Ukraine, and that any cooperation with Berlin was solely tactical and likely temporary.  In fact, this view led to a split in OUN.  You will note that the Melnyk camp of OUN (OUN M) and its leader is not celebrated in Ukraine today.  But it is this view, that Ukrainians must rely on themselves, which is at the core of his popularity in Ukraine today.

Collaboration with Nazis should be a crime, regardless of reasons why collaboration occurred.

Do you tell that to Hungarians?  The Vichy French?  Italians?  The Croatians?  Most of the rightwing fascistic elements in those states are current Putin clients.

Independent Ukraine is not an accuse to commit genocide. I'm well aware of NKVD crimes in Western Ukraine. But it's not a justification for Volyn, Khatyn, Babiy Yar etc. What's the connection between NKVD crimes in Lvov in 1941 and Volyn massacre in 1943? You said it's understandable. I never heard of Polish genocide of Ukrainians during WWII.

So you've never heard of Pawlokoma, for one.

Babi Yar was not committed by UPA.  It was largely the Einsatzgruppen who slaughtered Jews in Babi Yar.

Don't teach me Ukrainian and its connotations. In modern Ukraine they say "євреї". Same as in modern Russian "евреи". Absolutely no different.

Nope.  Yevrei is but one term used  Even your wiki quote notes the term came from Russian.  "Zhid" in Ukrainian is not a slur.  Don't try to tell me how to speak one of my native tongues which you do not speak fluently.  I don't need a wiki lesson in speaking a language I was raised in.

Therefore, logically speaking, it shouldn't be any different than in Russia. And in Russia it's well known that a word "жид" has a very negative connotation. From a purely linguistic point of you, you're right. But de facto "zhid" in both Ukraine and Russia is equal to "kike" in English and everyone here understands it this way. Do they say "євреї" or "zhidva"? So go and tell your fairytales to babushkas.

See above.  I know my language, and learned it free from Russian influence.  You do not.  And if you believe I am a genetically anti Semitic Ukrainian, I will also point out that my Grandfather was a Ukrainian-Polish Jew.

As per Tyagnibok or Tyahnybok, he enjoys a widespread support in Ukraine.

Yes, so popular that his party lost 31 of the 37 seats it holds. 

I think he's very popular.

No, he isn't.  But he does have Russian counterparts, probably the best example being Zhironovsky.

[papakota]

You know, some people called me a troll here. It's a russianwomendiscussion forum. I live in Russia and I say that it's a good idea to marry local ladies. My opponents live God knows where and they say that one from the West shouldn't come to Russia to get married. So who is the troll on the forum here?

BillyB,
Are you a prophet? How do you know what will happen after Putin? Maybe Russia and Ukraine will reunite. Wouldn't surprise me, that's for sure.

If it was up to me, Putin wouldn't be a President a single day, let alone 16 years. Prior to 2014 I had no problem with him mostly. Never admired him though. But I think that he's gone too far. To be fair, life under Putin is still the best life Russians ever had. In terms of safety, money and civil freedoms. Ukraine absolutely has nothing to do with it. Just because me and Putin agree on something, doesn't mean anything. I don't care about Crimea and Donbass, but I think that Russia can't afford bad relations with developed countries.

[papakota]

Boethius,
If 5% in Finland enjoy having their native language as official language of the country, then why half of Ukrainians can't get the same? There's no point to argue about the languages in Ukraine. I have my opinion and you have yours.

Ukrainian nationalists were behind Khatyn, Volyn and Babiy Yar. Right now they also hate anybody who's not ethnic Ukrainian and lives in Ukraine. But now they keep a low profile, 'cos it's not in their best interest to make it widely seen. Here in Russia there are also Russian nationalists like that. But the difference is that they don't run the show here. Every year on November 4 in Moscow neighborhood of Lyublino they celebrate a so called "Russian March". They yell words against Putin. But Putin marginalized them. In Ukraine it's an exact opposite. Not every single SS man killed Jews during WWII. But we still call ALL SS members murderers. Same principle applies to Ukrainian nationalists. I never said that single one of them is guilty of war crimes. I express my point of view. I'm also against Bogdan Khmelnitskiy. Another criminal. It's like here in Russia on every corner I see Lenin. Now in Orel they have Ivan the Terrible monument. Same bs. So it's not like I'm only against Bandera. I'm against them all in both Russia and Ukraine. But in Russia and Ukraine about 5% of the people share my views. Therefore it absolutely makes no difference. I'm more of a liberal and cosmopolitan person. I believe in tolerance and respect. All the guys I mention were intolerant and very violent. As per Bandera, OK, substitute it with Melnik. For me they're all the same.

I agree with you that it's not so black and white with Ukrainian nationalists. Same as with Russian nationalists. I personally agree with some things they say. For example, to have a visa regime between Russia and Central Asian states.

As per nationalists. There's a good saying in English. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. That's all there's to it.

Putin is not my hero, so his friends or clients are not mine.

A word "zhid" technically is OK. That's why you might say it in America and it's fine. But in former Soviet Union it has a very negative connotation. It's not a linguistic thing, but a tradition. I don't know why. In Russian language it's exactly the same as in Ukrainian. In America I heard that Hitler was part Jewish. So what? Zhirinovsky is half Jewish. He's still pretty much Antisemitic in my personal opinion.

Tyagnibok was still one of Maidan leaders and on TV I see that many people support him. You don't get it, it doesn't matter the exact numbers. Only a minority of Russians supported Bolsheviks. And it didn't prevent them from being able to make a revolution. Same with Svoboda guys. They might be a minority, but they have influence in Ukraine that one can't deny. A loud minority if you will.