Is the country of the USA a social and historical experiment?

[fathertime]

Actually, if you were familiar with crime statistics you'd find it's the welfare class feeding off each other. They'll spend their social assistance/welfare check on booze and drugs/vice rather than better themselves or even fed/cloth their children.

Brass

I'm sure some do exactly that, but a blanket statement isn't accurate.  I've been in many supermarket lines and seen the little EBT card displayed with a shopping cart full of regular food, albeit some junk food as well.  The corporate welfare benefiting the already flush so they can then blow their free cash at massage parlors, casinos, during their self-indulgent drug-fests should be acknowledged as well.


Fathertime! 

[Brasscasing]

Krymster, here is what WIKI says on the period when the "main expropriation" occurred, by WHO, WHAT resources,   and WHERE the money ended up ( until it was relatively stopped after 2002-2003) :

The Russian mafia in Israel began with the mass immigration of Russian Jews to Israel in 1989.^[12] The Russian mafia saw Israel as an ideal place to launder money, as Israel's banking system was designed to encourage aliyah, the immigration of Jews, and the accompanying capital. Following the trend of global financial deregulation, Israel had also implemented legislation aimed at easing the movement of capital. Combined with the lack of anti-money laundering legislation, "Russian" organised crime found it an easy place to transfer ill-gotten gains. In 2005, police estimated that Russian organised crime had laundered between $5 and 10 billion in the fifteen years since the end of the Soviet Union. Non-Jewish criminals such as Sergei Mikhailov sought to get Israeli passports, using fake Jewish documentation.^[13]
Russian and Ukrainian Jewish criminals have also been able to set up networks in the United States, following the large migration of Russian Jews to New York City and Miami, but also in European cities such as Berlin and Antwerp. Many of these Russian gangsters have Israeli passports as well.^[14] Infamous Russian-Jewish mobsters include Marat Balagula, Evsei Agron and their respective criminal gangs in the United States. Soviet-Jewish criminal groups in the United States are involved in racketeering, prostitution, drug trafficking, extortion, and gasoline fraud as well as murder.^[15]

Krymster, just reminding you of the Jewish ( along side others) slave ownership and the participation of jews in the banquet.
From WIKI :
American mainland colonial Jews imported slaves from Africa at a rate proportionate to the general population. As slave sellers, their role was more marginal, although their involvement in the Brazilian and Caribbean trade is believed to be considerably more significant.

Care to expand on the above?

I think Bo' was right after all...


The freedom from the oppression by the English Crown, as is known. I thought I stated it pretty clearly in my original post. I can copy-paste it again, especially for you :

The United States were founded on the idea of finding freedom,  pursuing happiness far away from the oppressor, building a new country  based on a whole list of values and RELIANCE ON YOURSELF. Not asking anything from anyone and not owing anything to anyone. Interfering with no one and not letting anyone destroy its basic, core values. This is the idea, as is known.

And yes, the history of American States is unparallelled.... until  "Roosevelt and the Democratic Party mobilized the expanded ranks of the poor as well as organized labor, ethnic minorities, urbanites, and Southern whites, crafting the New Deal coalition".

As to the Russian Revolution, it is a historically established fact that it was financed by American jewish capital.
From WIKI :
Historian George F. Kennan noted that Schiff helped finance revolutionary propaganda during the Russo-Japanese war and revolution of 1905.


Jacob Schiff was head of the New York
investment firm Kuhn, Loeb and Co. He
was one of the principal backers of the
Bolshevik revolution and personally
financed Trotsky's trip from New York
to Russia. He was a major contributor
to Woodrow Wilson's presidential
campaign and an advocate for passage
of the Federal Reserve Act.

Some more reading on Jacob Schiff's financing of the Russian Revolution :
http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/easterneuropean/russian/literature/articles/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

Do I detect the foul odor of anti-Semite rhetoric?

Brass

[Brasscasing]

I'm sure some do exactly that, but a blanket statement isn't accurate.  I've been in many supermarket lines and seen the little EBT card displayed with a shopping cart full of regular food, albeit some junk food as well.  The corporate welfare benefiting the already flush so they can then blow their free cash at massage parlors, casinos, during their self-indulgent drug-fests should be acknowledged as well.

Oh, I don't know about that, FT. I'd venture my blanket statement is more accurate than your blanket statement.

Brass

[fathertime]

Oh, I don't know about that, FT. I'd venture my blanket statement is more accurate than your blanket statement.

Brass

Heh heh, if I were making a blanket statement you would probably be more correct....my statement is to say a lot of our welfare is going to the already rich, and that money is spent on self-indulgence in one form or another.


I wouldn't argue that some of the welfare for the poor is blown on stupidity because obviously it is, but the preponderance is spent for the intended purpose.


Fathertime!

[Brasscasing]

Heh heh, if I were making a blanket statement you would probably be more correct....my statement is to say a lot of our welfare is going to the already rich, and that money is spent on self-indulgence in one form or another.

What about all the corporate welfare that rich directly/indirectly benefit from...and then bang prostitutes, while using booze/drugs?  That sort of hypocrisy is all just fine with you of course.

This is a blanket statement if I ever read one, my friend.

[My bolded] How so?

I wouldn't argue that some of the welfare for the poor is blown on stupidity because obviously it is, but the preponderance is spent for the intended purpose.

Oh, I don't know about that...

http://nypost.com/2013/01/06/welfare-recipients-take-out-cash-at-strip-clubs-liquor-stores-and-x-rated-shops/

http://www.dailynews.com/20101004/69m-in-welfare-money-is-spent-out-of-state

Iowa’s failure to track welfare benefits risks $6.6M in federal aid

..."The federal legislation came in reaction to media reports in multiple states of welfare recipients using benefits or withdrawing cash from ATMs at liquor stores, hookah bars, strip clubs, and casinos."...

http://watchdog.org/67397/ia-welfarerecipients/

Brass

[krimster2]

Ludichka!

You left out the part where Jews murder Christians and drink their blood, it’s about as true as everything else you wrote, oh and don’t forget “The Protocols...”, they’re true to, right?

Well Luda, I need to go take a shower now to feel clean, hopefully you didn’t put any Zyklon B in the master bath when I wasn’t looking!!

[GQBlues]

What about all the corporate welfare that rich directly/indirectly benefit from...and then bang prostitutes, while using booze/drugs?  That sort of hypocrisy is all just fine with you of course.

Corporate welfare, yes. Many people don't realize what encompasses CW exactly. Agriculture industry is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, corporate welfare despite it being labeled as a 'government subsidize' industry. Not too far from that are the mind-numbing numbers of our in-state unions. Private or public. From Teachers unions to SAG. Just between these two, makes California the bluest state. Obama alone had traveled to Calif to dip deep into the Democratic fund raising cofer at least 5-6 times during the last two years prior to this election. That doesn't even include Hillary's.

The american way of late is to replace our long deceased slave force with the modern day slaves of illegal aliens...most work their asses off for the privileged, yet the 'privileged' look down their noses at them and complain they should be ejected, all the while treating them like servants..... housekeeping, landscaping, car washing, fruit picking, food preparation, taking orders at restaurants  loading and unloading...etc etc.

And the majority of these 'modern day masters', again here in California, are the very progressive groups, business or politicians alike, that trumpets 'equality' in the labor force. Little wonder why California boasts the largest population of illegal immigrants with an all-state sanctuary cities, etc...These very cronies are the ones who largely profit from these illegal immigrants. From the fields of San Joaquin Valley, to the studios of Hollywood, to the harbors San Diego, Long Beach, San Francisco, to nearly every construction sites, to the very homes of these 'progressive hypocritical aristocrats'. The proof is in the pudding. They reap billions upon billions on the very backs of people to supposedly sanctify.

tidbit: Remember Arnold's scandalous affair with an illegal immigrant? Even fathered her child the entre time she was working as their (with wife Democrat Maria Shriver) housekeeper when he was governor? LMAO.

Don't even start me with our current Democrat governor Jerry Brown. Likely the most dirtiest/scandalous governor since Gray Davis.

LMAO! Americans outside of the state actually believes Democrats are the *benevolent progressives*.

I'm sure some do exactly that, but a blanket statement isn't accurate.  I've been in many supermarket lines and seen the little EBT card displayed with a shopping cart full of regular food, albeit some junk food as well.  The corporate welfare benefiting the already flush so they can then blow their free cash at massage parlors, casinos, during their self-indulgent drug-fests should be acknowledged as well.

Walmart, Target, Costco, Sam's Club, etc..reaping billions/year *industry* every year from SNAP, EBTs, etc programs. As long as the 'masters-at-helm' bathe themselves in gold, everyone's happy.

California. The largest economy in the land, while having one the worst poverty level in the nation in collective counties. Los Angeles faring the worst.

The Democrats got this entire state 'controlled'. It's the modern day 'cotton field'. It's little wonder why Democratic politicians litter our streets.

[fathertime]

And the majority of these 'modern day masters', again here in California, are the very progressive groups, business or politicians alike, that trumpets 'equality' in the labor force. Little wonder why California boasts the largest population of illegal immigrants with an all-state sanctuary cities, etc...These very cronies are the ones who largely profit from these illegal immigrants. From the fields of San Joaquin Valley, to the studios of Hollywood, to the harbors San Diego, Long Beach, San Francisco, to nearly every construction sites, to the very homes of these 'progressive hypocritical aristocrats'. The proof is in the pudding. They reap billions upon billions on the very backs of people to supposedly sanctify.

Yeah, CA has a ton of illegals being exploited by both Dems and Repubs...Regardless of it being a dem/repub I really don't blame employers for hiring illegals, they are often great workers.  one big difference is not many republicans want to see a legalization (Of most), whereas most democrats do.   What say you? 


Fathertime! 

[alex330]

Regardless of it being a dem/repub I really don't blame employers for hiring illegals, they are often great workers. 

Most are actually not great workers. I have worked side by side with illegals. Many work hard because they type of work they are hired to do demands it from them. Many work longer hours for the same reasons. Many work for much less than Americans or skilled workers. That is the primary reason. Nothing to do with being a great or skilled worker.

[GQBlues]

Yeah, CA has a ton of illegals being exploited by both Dems and Repubs...Regardless of it being a dem/repub I really don't blame employers for hiring illegals, they are often great workers.  one big difference is not many republicans want to see a legalization (Of most), whereas most democrats do.   What say you? 


Fathertime!

I would disagree for many reasons...

1. To say these illegal immigrants are hard workers, as if to say they should be acceptable is being disingenous. If a stranger who broke into your home can scrub your floor well, doesn't mean you'd give him residence and rights within it more than your family now, would you?

2. Many likely do work hard, but to lump the entire sum is not even close to reality. The majority of them had grown obese. Hard to be obese when 'you're working very hard' everyday now, can you?

I'm not yet even talking about the large number of criminal elements within them. Kate Steinle's murder made huge headlines, but that's not even the grisliest. She was shot by a repeat felon who also happens to be an illegal immigrant. A Sta Barbara woman's home was invaded by an illegal immigrant. She was raped repeatedly, then bashed and beaten to death with a hammer. In both cases, the offender was caught - THEN released - simply because of sanctuary city rules. Rapes, burglaries, attacks, etc...

3. A very common Democrat talking point. As if to say those who have been trying to enter the country legally are not, or deserve to wait so we can foster 'these hard working illegals'.

4. As for Republican being added into that mix in California, here's some realistic numbers:

Active serving California politicians (Republican / Democrats )
Seats in the US Senate: 0 / 2
Seats in the US House: 14 / 53
Statewide Executive Offices: 0 / 8
Seats in the State Senate: 13 / 40
Seats in the State Assembly: 25 / 80

Nearly a 4:1 ratio, wouldn't you say? Now maybe 'some' of these Republicans do in fact engage in profiting off these illegal immigrants, but at a 4:1 ratio to begin with, at the very least for every one dirty Republican, conceivably there will be 4 Democrats that are. We aren't even speaking of the overwhelming number of those in mayoral positions & the wonderful Governor himself.

5. Since January of this year, there's been over 1 million illegal immigrants given driver's licenses. It isn't a coincidence we also suffered a spike in felony hit-n-runs. Many that do carry liability auto insurance, the very vas majority of them only carry the bare minimum required by the state. Most don't even carry comprehensive. - IF  they even carry insurance to begin with. When accidents occur, they ether leave the scene, or leave the other driver at a severe disadvantage because their coverage is never enough. Consequently, premiums for everyone else, even if you never no points against your license, your premium goes up due to uninsured motorists, inadequate liability coverage or a no-fault coverage because the other drive took off. Illegals don't even carry any personal injury coverage because they can literally walk into any clinic or hospital and get care - FOR FREE.

This is California FT. You live here and I don't need to tell you this. There is a very obvious reason why Democrats love these illegals. They, and the aristocrats that profit from them. They all maximize their annual windfall, which they then pound $$ into their periodic campaigns so the same politicians get to keep their public positions, and the cycle continues.  Haven't you not ask yourself how in the world people like Pelosi, Boxer. Waters, Feinstein et al can stay so long in their seats despite never having heard too many things from these scumbags?

California is a very good example of the modern day slave trade. The Democrats fingerprints are all over this state.

[Boethius]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21494.msg453478#msg453478

The Bolsheviks were financed, and aided in other ways, far more by Germany and the Germans than by American Jewish financiers.  This is not an opinion, BTW.  It is an historical fact, well documented, and there are several Russian documentaries on youtube on this for those interested in the subject.

[krimster2]

Bo’,
   I don’t think Luda’a assertions was meant to be factual, but are simply anti-semitic vitriol.  For example, according to this source:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop1.html

In 1790 there were about 2,000 Jews living in the USA, assuming half lived in southern “slave states(2)”, this would make about 1,000 living in slave owning regions.  According to what I read, Jews owned slaves at about the same rate as non-Jewish whites, which was about 1% of the population, so this percentage indicates that there were about 10, that’s right TEN Jewish slave owners in the USA in 1790!  Also consider that these Jews were not plantation owners but small merchants, so the number of slaves they owned would also be very small, my guess is a total of about 100.  In 1790, there were around  700,000(3) slaves in the USA so these numbers (you know the facts) makes Luda’s assertion of Jewish culpability for slavery in the USA to be absurd, and is just a “libel” like so many others made against Jews and used as justification for their loss of freedom and genocide.

Additionally, Luda should reflect on why Jews would support Bolshevism in Russia.  How about the “Pale of Settlement(4)”, how about pogroms(5), how about restrictions in higher education, land ownership, business, brought about by the May Laws of 1882(6), whose objective was that, "One third will die out, one third will leave the country and one third will be completely dissolved in the surrounding population”(7)

1. http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/history-archaeology/slavery-antebellum-georgia
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_states_and_free_states
3. http://userpages.umbc.edu/~bouton/History407/SlaveStats.htm
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement
5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Laws
7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Russian_Empire

With the conditions that Jews were forced to live under, it’s no wonder they supported an alternative form of government, it would be surprising that they didn’t, so based on this association I would make the claim that the Czarist government is responsible for creating the conditions that led to Bolshevism (and other earlier unsuccessful revolutions), and reaped what they so often sowed in 1918.

[Boethius]

There was also a Messianic like component to Marxism-paradise on earth-that would have been familiar to Jews, and probably attractive to them.

[fathertime]

I would disagree for many reasons...

1. To say these illegal immigrants are hard workers, as if to say they should be acceptable is being disingenous. If a stranger who broke into your home can scrub your floor well, doesn't mean you'd give him residence and rights within it more than your family now, would you?

2. Many likely do work hard, but to lump the entire sum is not even close to reality. The majority of them had grown obese. Hard to be obese when 'you're working very hard' everyday now, can you?

I'm not yet even talking about the large number of criminal elements within them. Kate Steinle's murder made huge headlines, but that's not even the grisliest. She was shot by a repeat felon who also happens to be an illegal immigrant. A Sta Barbara woman's home was invaded by an illegal immigrant. She was raped repeatedly, then bashed and beaten to death with a hammer. In both cases, the offender was caught - THEN released - simply because of sanctuary city rules. Rapes, burglaries, attacks, etc...

3. A very common Democrat talking point. As if to say those who have been trying to enter the country legally are not, or deserve to wait so we can foster 'these hard working illegals'.

4. As for Republican being added into that mix in California, here's some realistic numbers:

Active serving California politicians (Republican / Democrats )
Seats in the US Senate: 0 / 2
Seats in the US House: 14 / 53
Statewide Executive Offices: 0 / 8
Seats in the State Senate: 13 / 40
Seats in the State Assembly: 25 / 80

Nearly a 4:1 ratio, wouldn't you say? Now maybe 'some' of these Republicans do in fact engage in profiting off these illegal immigrants, but at a 4:1 ratio to begin with, at the very least for every one dirty Republican, conceivably there will be 4 Democrats that are. We aren't even speaking of the overwhelming number of those in mayoral positions & the wonderful Governor himself.

5. Since January of this year, there's been over 1 million illegal immigrants given driver's licenses. It isn't a coincidence we also suffered a spike in felony hit-n-runs. Many that do carry liability auto insurance, the very vas majority of them only carry the bare minimum required by the state. Most don't even carry comprehensive. - IF  they even carry insurance to begin with. When accidents occur, they ether leave the scene, or leave the other driver at a severe disadvantage because their coverage is never enough. Consequently, premiums for everyone else, even if you never no points against your license, your premium goes up due to uninsured motorists, inadequate liability coverage or a no-fault coverage because the other drive took off. Illegals don't even carry any personal injury coverage because they can literally walk into any clinic or hospital and get care - FOR FREE.

This is California FT. You live here and I don't need to tell you this. There is a very obvious reason why Democrats love these illegals. They, and the aristocrats that profit from them. They all maximize their annual windfall, which they then pound $$ into their periodic campaigns so the same politicians get to keep their public positions, and the cycle continues.  Haven't you not ask yourself how in the world people like Pelosi, Boxer. Waters, Feinstein et al can stay so long in their seats despite never having heard too many things from these scumbags?

California is a very good example of the modern day slave trade. The Democrats fingerprints are all over this state.

Thanks again for the reasoned post. 


My feeling is the illegals have been lured here, our government has known this all along and turned a blind eye.  Our american companies have exploited them the best they can for profit of course.  So what is done is done, they are here, and shouldn't have the rug pulled out from under them and uprooted.   Of course the illegals that have committed serious crimes such as robbery, rape etc etc, should be locked up, and never be allowed back in after their sentence.  If caught a second time, I'd be ok with never letting them leave prison at that point. 


I say legalize the majority of them, create/enforce a system that doesn't permit this to happen again, and be done with it.  Overall they and their offspring will be a net benefit.


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Most are actually not great workers. I have worked side by side with illegals. Many work hard because they type of work they are hired to do demands it from them. Many work longer hours for the same reasons.

Which is why they are at minimum very useful and good workers.

Fathertime! 

[Gator]

Bo’,
   I don’t think Luda’a assertions was meant to be factual, but are simply anti-semitic vitriol. 

If Luda were anti-Semitic, why would she proclaim her love for America?   Jewish Americans are not only integrated in the American mainstream, they have a prominent history yet maintain their self-identity.    America accepted many Russian Jews as religious refugees.  America, aside from one recent questionable UN vote, has been the world's most fervent supporter of Israel.  Consider our President-Elect.  One reporter wrote in November, "Trust me, by almost every possible measurement, we've just elected our first Jewish president."

[GQBlues]

Thanks again for the reasoned post. 


My feeling is the illegals have been lured here, our government has known this all along and turned a blind eye.  Our american companies have exploited them the best they can for profit of course.  So what is done is done, they are here, and shouldn't have the rug pulled out from under them and uprooted.   Of course the illegals that have committed serious crimes such as robbery, rape etc etc, should be locked up, and never be allowed back in after their sentence.  If caught a second time, I'd be ok with never letting them leave prison at that point. 

Here, here I will agree.

I say legalize the majority of them, create/enforce a system that doesn't permit this to happen again, and be done with it.  Overall they and their offspring will be a net benefit.

That's the tougher nut to crack in many aspect. At this point, I'd rather 'see' a way to screen or filter them all out for accountability. Issue 'guest worker permits' with limited time frame for those who qualify with a possible path to residency void of any governmental social assistance. Citizenship is out of the question in the process. They can however, while here as 'legal workers' file for visas like everyone else. They can then be 'process' as part of the wider immigration net.



[/quote]

[fathertime]

Here, here I will agree.

That's the tougher nut to crack in many aspect. At this point, I'd rather 'see' a way to screen or filter them all out for accountability. Issue 'guest worker permits' with limited time frame for those who qualify with a possible path to residency void of any governmental social assistance. Citizenship is out of the question in the process. They can however, while here as 'legal workers' file for visas like everyone else. They can then be 'process' as part of the wider immigration net.

I might be on-board with a lot of your solution with a couple caveats.  I'd like to see the citizenship allotment increased greatly for those that fall in the group qualifying for citizenship.  If they have been productive citizens, then the quota should be increased to a number that encompasses all that qualify in this 'one time situation'  and the process should be completed in a set time-frame that is reasonable and expedient. 


As this is all happening, the border can be tightened and workplace enforcement taken seriously, in an effort to discourage more waves of illegals.   


I guess none of this will really happen, but it could.  I'd like to see what Trump actually proposes when his time comes. 


Fathertime! 

[ML]

Consider our President-Elect.  One reporter wrote in November, "Trust me, by almost every possible measurement, we've just elected our first Jewish president."

Is this similar to idea that Bill Clinton was our first black president?

[Gator]

Is this similar to idea that Bill Clinton was our first black president?

Exactly.   You are on top of it, and win the Daily Double. 


Such was the author's opening sentence: 

http://www.therussophile.org/did-we-just-elect-our-first-jewish-president.html/

I do not know enough about the history of the Jewish community in Russia to understand any anti-Semite undercurrent that could be at play in this thread.  It seems incomprehensible that anyone who harbored animosity toward Jews would praise the historic foundation of America and what we are today. 

[krimster2]

it’s pretty simple to ignore the things you don’t want to see...(1)

David Duke

is an example of a patriotic American anti-semite, who has praised the historical founding of America... what’s so difficult about comprehending his beliefs of “ein Volk”, of transfiguring the glorification of the White Christian leadership that constituted the founding fathers into a reason for glorifying whites themselves and to serve as an example of racial superiority, don’t you see how easy it is to pervert history? this is fascism 101...

(1) Washinton’s letter to the Hebrew Congregation in Newport, Rhode Island, “May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants – while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.”

[2tallbill]

Heh heh, if I were making a blanket statement you would probably be more correct....my statement is to say a lot of our welfare is going to the already rich, and that money is spent on self-indulgence in one form or another.

Please describe (and be specific) an example about welfare going to the
rich for self indulgence with public money.

[ML]

my statement is to say a lot of our welfare is going to the already rich, and that money is spent on self-indulgence in one form or another.

I don't claim to be rich; but if some welfare money is going to the non-poor, then how do I get in on receiving some of it ?

[krimster2]

Gee, I dunno, a few names seem to stick out...

Dennis Kozlowski - Tyco International
Bernie Ebbers - WorldCom
John Rigas - Adelphia Communications Corporation
Kenneth Lay & Jeffrey Skilling - Enron

The preferred method is accounting and tax fraud or “control fraud" to divert money that would have gone into public coffers, to instead flow to their own, and in Dennis Kozlowski’s case used for purchasing a 30 million dollar apartment in NYC. Even though there are perfectly legal methods for tax avoidance (created over the years by corporate tax lobbyists), such as those used by Apple and Google and I might add Mitt Romney to reduce their tax liability to about 3%, methods I might add that cannot be employed by “working class people”, for the the guys listed above this wasn’t good enough...

BTW, a good read on control fraud is William Black's book, “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One”

[jone]

Exactly.   You are on top of it, and win the Daily Double. 


Such was the author's opening sentence: 

http://www.therussophile.org/did-we-just-elect-our-first-jewish-president.html/

I do not know enough about the history of the Jewish community in Russia to understand any anti-Semite undercurrent that could be at play in this thread.  It seems incomprehensible that anyone who harbored animosity toward Jews would praise the historic foundation of America and what we are today.

Much of the money that went into buying the supplies and weapons during the Revolutionary War came from the Jewish community.