"Honest Jim" Cries "scam" !!

[2tallbill]

Igor (Stirlitz) offers more than translating services. He offers advice and helps you not to step on your d*ck.
He will warn you when you are thinking with the wrong head. He will tell you what he thinks and with his experience
it is difficult to find this at a lower price.

I have used his services on two different trips and his advice and many other services has helped me quite a bit. I think that
he is the best. I am in a business where my products cost more than nearly all of my competitors. Some people decide
to buy the less expensive products. I don't disparage them, I simply move on to the next customer.

Bill

[wiz]

Andrewfin

I expect you know the expression “Horses for courses”?

If I was going to Ukraine to start a business or to buy property, or to invest a large amount of money then of course I would be a fool not to use a very experienced translator and pay the prices Igor is asking for his services.

On the other hand paying 50 Euro, you suggested, per hour is well over the top for a “personal Professional” in Ukraine, where the cost of living is very cheap in comparison to our costs.
 
Kiev and Odessa are extremely expensive places for us foreigners because most of us use the top end of the market of restaurants, accommodation and transport because we do not know or we have not time for looking for cheaper alternatives or we prefer to use the best services for many reasons.

Igor

I said to you before that your statement of “cheap losers” is arrogant and you missed the point I was making to you.

Your definition of a loser, in your opinion, is anybody who does not pay your prices for a professional translator in Ukraine, which in my view is absolutely rubbish!

I said: “Would you pay the same wages here in the UK and in Ukraine for the same job with such difference in the cost of living? Somehow I don’t think so!

Of course a UK Professional interpreter will charge a lot more than the 50 dollars you mention because of the high cost of living in the UK, especially in the South of England.

In Odessa you can go at Deribacivka street, e.g Ukraina Lakomka restaurant (which is a good restaurant) and have a good dinner for 2 for around 250 -400 Gryvnia, even Hutorok restaurant was charging these prices too! Here in the UK you will be charged that in a pub but if you go to a good restaurant you expect to pay around 100 pounds for 2 if not more. Make your calculations on your own! Nearly 200 dollars!

Just for your information in the UK we pay 2 dollars a litre for petrol, internet connection is the same costs as yours but we get 8 Mbits speed for our money and not 56 KB as you do. I know that property speculation driven prices up in Ukraine especially in Kiev but would you fancy a 1 bedroom flat in a rundown area here for an average price of 120 K pounds? Where I live they average at around 160 K so I will not mention that a 2-3 bedrooms flat can cost you over 220 K and when it comes to semi-detached properties start thinking around 400K and up. Do not forget that Kiev and Odessa are not typical places as the rest of the Ukraine! Everywhere else is a lot cheaper and I have been around, as you know!

I did not pretend that I did not read your suggestion to come and live down there, but the husband of your English teacher Iryna, told me that with my state pension of 5000 Gryvna a month I could live nicely there. So I think Carl and Iryna know better than me, because they live there for long period, during summer in their own flat!

No I would not like to live in your town because has nothing that will interest me, the Irish pub, Arcadia and Amsterdam are not my cuppa and I prefer to invest my money in Greece where my property is safe unlike down there! If there is a place that I would consider living in Ukraine that is Lviv, which is much nicer and more European in its outlook.

Finally I do not come to Ukraine looking for women, which you Ukrainian men are proud to advertise as your best assets available for enjoyment, but mostly for business. Of course I am not averse in dating Ukrainian women, when opportunity arise but is not my primary objective.

[andrewfi]

I did not suggest that $50 was the right price. JEEEZ! Is English so hard. I was pointing out that in a slightly more expensive city that 50 Euro would be the going rate for a 'personal professional' - that might be an acountant, lawyer, interpreter, etc etc. $30 dollars is about 24 Euro these days

I was putting the charges into context.

$30 devalued American diollars is not very much money. I have tried to show you why things cost. If jb's wife wanted to go to Ukraine to build a business she possibly could. The difference between Stirlitz and the $7 per hour folk is that the low price reflects the fundamental difference between what a professional is and does and what an amateur/opportunist does.

Now. I can not imagine mediating a relationship through a third party, but I have to say that IMHO making choices about my future wife is more important than, for example, buying a property. I would NOT be cheapskating the relationship thing.

BTW here a few examples of the 'going rate' for professional interpreting work in this field:
http://www.translations.com.ua/index.php?mode=price&lang=en
http://www.triadacompany.com.ua/Translation_cost_TRIADA_2006.doc
http://www.ukrcst.com/ucst/eng/services_2.asp

They are fairly consistent and, of course, Stirlitz's normal services go a little beyond simple simultaneous translations.

I know it is hard for people to realise that whilst some aspects of life in the FSU are cheap and there is a lot of poverty, not everyone wants to remain poor. Trying to force people to remain poor goes down, with local people, like a bucket of cold vomit.

[Turboguy]

I think you need to look at that particular market and what competitors charge as well.  Comparing a firm doing business translations is not necessarily the same as the MOB business.  It is a little like the lawn mowing business.  Three are kids that take their pushmower around the neighbored and there are comapines with crews running very expensive and efficient machines that will come in and basically manicure your lawn. 

I have no doubt that Sterlitz excels at what he does and is worth the price.  I think Pavel also does an excellent job and is one notch below him in prices.   If anyone can not afford that and needs an excellent but affordable terp in Kiev, I can hook you up with an excellent one.  I can also do the same for anyone going to Moscow.   Those who want the best and don't mind paying for it I am sure would be happy choosing Sterlitz.

[jb]

-snip-I can also do the same for anyone going to Moscow. 

Hell, Dima speaks perfect, unaccented English, and back during his early university days he'd have been your interperter all day long in Moscow for a few pivas and a pizza.

[Turboguy]

I am sure Dima could have kept himself in all the beer and pizza he wanted if this place had been around then.

I am sure another factor that comes into play is the choices someone has.  If someone does an Internet search and has to rely on whatever pops up the choices may be more limited.

Sometimes there are other factors we don't consider.  Like the gal I used a few times in St Petersburgh.  Her rates were not bad, he services were OK.  She did manage to eat $ 200.00 worth of food a day. It would make more sense to pay Sterlitz $ 200.00 for 10 hours work and feed him $ 40.00 worth of food than to pay the interperter I used $ 70.00 for a 10 hour day and feed her for $ 200.00.

Sometimes my sense of humor goes unappreciated here.  I was tempted to make some kind of a joke based on the fact that I hooked photoguy up with my terp before his trip, which I did but I think I will behave and keep myself out of trouble for a change.

Just while we are talking about terps and pay.  The terp I use charges $ 10.00 for the first hour and $ 5.00 from then on.  That was last years price when PG went so it could be higher now.   I mention that just to show the range of prices available and I am sure as good as mine is that Sterlitz is top of the line with his services.

[catzenmouse]

but I think I will behave and keep myself out of trouble for a change.

Awww TG, c'mon now... where's the fun in that? 

[Turboguy]

Oh, I think my secret is coming out.  Sometimes I do argue with those guys just for the fun of it.

[Stirlitz]

I said to you before that your statement of cheap losers is arrogant and you missed the point I was making to you.

Your definition of a loser, in your opinion, is anybody who does not pay your prices for a professional translator in Ukraine, which in my view is absolutely rubbish!

My god, can't you read? It is you who missed something!! Yes, it is absolute rubbish, but it is your definition, not mine! Let me quote my own freaking self specially for you. Please put on your glasses and read twice (mind the bold):

By losers I did not mean just anyone who cannot afford higher fees, but a certain type of people... Not everyone with few $$$ falls into this category... does not mean all cheap and/or poor people are losers.

Where the hell did I mention myself and my prices? Let alone anyone who does not pay them.

Anyway, it makes no sense talking to you. You are too old and your mind seems to be failing you as well as eyes. Please stop addressing me, I will not respond any more. It is a total waste of time like talking to a wall.

[wiz]

You are too old and your mind seems to be failing you as well as eyes. Please stop addressing me, I will not respond any more. It is a total waste of time like talking to a wall.

Resolting to insult is your answer to support your arrogant statement!

I agree...it makes no sense talking to you.

[PeeWee]

Resolting to insult is your answer to support your arrogant statement!

I agree...it makes no sense talking to you.

Wizzer, now I am curious...how old are you? over 50 I was thinking. Seems young to me. My dad is 89. That seems old to me but he gets around pretty good.

Peewee

[Jack]

Wizzzz, you look fine to me. If eeegor won't take you I certaintly will 

[wiz]

Ok Boys hand up!

I am 61 years old but everybody tell me I look around 50 and my hydraulic lift is still fully functioning.......LOL.
It's the testosterone surge and sex is the cure for a lot of things!..LOL

I will let you into my little secret. When I visit Kos, in Greece every night I visit the Spa waters which apart from helping my back pains it also helps other parts too ........ Olga realised that well......LOL
It is not a joke but medically proven fact!

A new relationship is doing a lot of good to us oldies! It breaths a new life in us, and it shows that you are never too old for love.....and sex of course. It fulfils every man's dream, to lie in the arms of a beautiful younger woman! 

Well in this matter (I only started seriously looking just a year ago) I take things one step at a time. I do meet also other women with whom I have been in touch for sometime, apart from Olga but so far she is the best candidate. Of course I keep my actions to myself because I do not want to upset her and miss my chance. I can not afford any mistakes now......the woman I choose to become my partner has to be the right one. I follow this process like a business plan!

I have taken early retirement 2 years ago because I was forced by my 2 married sons!
Before I was working too many hours, sometimes from 6 AM till 10-11 PM......so the boys rapped my knuckles.....and now I live a no stress life.

Of course I do some work on the side to keep me out of mischief......and make pocket money.

I sell package holidays and flights to Greece and Ukraine, Licencing travel consultancy, web designing and published a Greek Cookery Book  As the TESCO Slogan says: "Every little helps". I love travelling around a lot and here in UK we get a lot of opportunities for very cheap tickets.

Thanks Jack.......don't think will need your help..LOL

[Turboguy]

Now Wiz, after all the static I have had, may I ask how old Olga is.  I think she is older than some of the cantidates I have weeded through, but just curious. 

[wiz]

Now Wiz, after all the static I have had, may I ask how old Olga is.  I think she is older than some of the cantidates I have weeded through, but just curious. 

She will be 46 and better remember to buy flower for her birthday in Corfu...LOL

[Turboguy]

Thanks,  That should be a very comfortable age difference for you. 

[Manny]

Back to the interpreter thing............

I was just in Estonia to holiday with my lady (she loved speaking Russian in Europe) and to buy a flat there........

It was a condition in the Notary office that I hired an Estonian translator to explain every word of the very long sales contract.........

So we got one that was accredited with the Notaries, who was licensed to counter sign the contract as a reliable translator, her English was good and understandable but not perfect, she was with me for one hour and 25 mins of verbal business contract translation only........ her rate was 900 Estonian Kroons which is £40 UK or $74 US.

Cash only of course despite her adding sales tax! (VAT)

[Christopher]

Its sounds like you were getting more than just translation service.  You were also buying the ability to sue them in case anything went wrong.  I can not tell if you think that rate is high but it makes sense since the terp is adding that in.  I am not saying anything against you but this comment is a general one to people out there; you are buying more then the preventing of you from stepping on your dick.  Unlike someone else on this board the terp in licensed and she maybe bonded in some sort of way. I hope things go well for you and your woman 

[wiz]

Back to the interpreter thing............

I was just in Estonia to holiday with my lady (she loved speaking Russian in Europe) and to buy a flat there........

It was a condition in the Notary office that I hired an Estonian translator to explain every word of the very long sales contract.........

So we got one that was accredited with the Notaries, who was licensed to counter sign the contract as a reliable translator, her English was good and understandable but not perfect, she was with me for one hour and 25 mins of verbal business contract translation only........ her rate was 900 Estonian Kroons which is £40 UK or $74 US.

Cash only of course despite her adding sales tax! (VAT)

Manchester

As I said before " Horses for Courses"

That was cheap.....and as Christopher said you were getting more than just a translator. In Greece, last time I was there I had to pay 100 Euro to a Solicitor just to witness my signature!

I have no problem with that and as I don't know the cost of living there I can not judge what is reasonable or not. You may know better of course and tell us!

I know the cost of living in Greece, UK and Ukraine.......and make my comments accordingly!

[andrewfi]

Oh, I see, you guys don't want somebody upon who you can rely? That clarifies a lot.

A 'proper' interpreter can be relied upon, they do have accreditation, it is what you pay for. If you are not bothered about quality then you get somebody who can speak a little English. Manchester's figure was about right for Estonia and fits into the data that I gave before for Ukraine (less, but not $7 per hour!)

A wiser man than me once wrote this:
There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.
John Ruskin, (attributed)

[DonAz]

I agree with most that Andrew stated, so I’ll pass over most of his points

My take on all if this is a bit different then just looking at the cost factor. I am much more interested in the quality of services provided.

I think to compare the services provided by stirlitz and someone who is JUST a some part time terp is like comparing Ferrari to a skateboard.

The way is see it, the level and quality of service that can be provide by Igor stand head and shoulders above those offer by anyone else in his area. Stirlitz offers not only translation services he offers more like a concierge service. I consider him to be more of an assistant and adviser to any man going to the Ukraine.

I know before I went on my first trip I considered many things and how I wanted them handles . I wanted someone who would get me an air conditioned apartment, I wanted  a cleaning lady keeping the apartment spotless. I wanted all my laundry cleaned every couple of days. In addition I wanted to have car and English speaking driver when ever I need one. above I wanted it all prearranged before I traveled, so that my time was spent dealing with the mission at hand and I wanted all mundane tasks  handled  in a seamless fashion without any further thought on my part. I do not want to deal with any of the tedious BS!

 Lets face it the time we can spend on these trip is very limited. We need to condense everything we wish to accomplish into a week or two. We need someone we can trust and  who will give us the straight skinny a without blowing smoke up our ass.

Good service ain’t cheap and I think that paying ONLY $20.00 per hour to have an assistant/ interpreter/ man Friday, is more then reasonable.  In fact I think is a bargain!

Wiz~jb.
While I understand your argument on English speaking ladies and I do agree that it makes complete sense on paper. ( I thought the same thing before I met my wife)  However the opposite may be true at times….It was for us at least in the beginning of our relationship.
My wife’s English was minimal as was my Russian. I was amazed how easy it was to communicate many things. Every emotion is expressed by ones face and body language. Of course we could not discuss how to repair a clock, argue politics or literature, etc.

A lot of folks assume that when a FSUW joins an agency or lists her profile on the internet that she is EXCLUSIVELY  looking for an English speaking man. I think most of the time ( at least with the honest  Ladies ) they are really just looking for a man to love and to love them in return, be he an American Italian, Dutch or whatever. I know my wife would have preferred to have RM and live in Russia, her second choice would have been an Italian guy. She was not a big fan of America ( but is now ).  So as with most things involved in this adventure you can not just assume a persons intention, especially when it comes to language skills prior to developing a relationship.  That can never be carved in stone.

I'm happy I realized that before I met my wife.

DonAz

[wiz]

Wiz~jb.
While I understand your argument on English speaking ladies and I do agree that it makes complete sense on paper. ( I thought the same thing before I met my wife)  However the opposite may be true at times….It was for us at least in the beginning of our relationship.
My wife’s English was minimal as was my Russian. I was amazed how easy it was to communicate many things. Every emotion is expressed by ones face and body language. Of course we could not discuss how to repair a clock, argue politics or literature, etc.

A lot of folks assume that when a FSUW joins an agency or lists her profile on the internet that she is EXCLUSIVELY  looking for an English speaking man. I think most of the time ( at least with the honest  Ladies ) they are really just looking for a man to love and to love them in return, be he an American Italian, Dutch or whatever. I know my wife would have preferred to have RM and live in Russia, her second choice would have been an Italian guy. She was not a big fan of America ( but is now ).  So as with most things involved in this adventure you can not just assume a persons intention, especially when it comes to language skills prior to developing a relationship.  That can never be carved in stone.

I'm happy I realized that before I met my wife.

DonAz

Don

All I have to say in my part, so far, I have been lucky and I have found several women from Russia and Ukraine speaking very good English at the age range I have been looking for.

To be honest at the beginning I was extremely disappointed with the kind of responses I was getting and was thinking I will never meet any woman speaking good English. After I changed my profile and tactics in February the dead wood cleared and many women speaking good English appeared. Now I have met 4 of them and I continue talking to them daily by messenger or phone and we do not only talk about the weather but every subject including politics, which of course makes me happy as I get to know them better and better by the day.

It only remains one more to meet in September from Russia, who also speaks very good English on the phone.

You are aware that next weekend I am going on holiday for second time with my Russian g/f who is the favourite at the moment! I think as time goes, I hope, I will make up my mind which one is the best for me.

I said before that I am not looking for a young sexy and very attractive woman but for a normal nice person who is attractive, in my eyes. I am not an oil paint myself, so I know my limitations and of course I am not vain!

[Jack]

......."The way is see it, the level and quality of service that can be provide by Igor stand head and shoulders above those offer by anyone else in his area.  I consider him to be more of an assistant and adviser to any man going to the Ukraine........ Good service ain’t cheap and I think that paying ONLY $20.00 per hour to have an assistant/ interpreter/ man Friday, is more then reasonable.  In fact I think is a bargain!"......


Yes Don, you have hit the head on the nail. You met and used the services of one person, you liked the service so much you were willing to pay $20 an hour and consider it a bargain. You would never consider using another person. That is a typical response from someone happy with someone's service.

What I am saying is there are MANY fine individuals who also provide these same services, they are more of an assistant and advisor, they stand head and shoulders above anyone else in there field, they help men to meet ladies any and everywhere and are good at doing this. You have heard the name Pavel mentioned many times, many people swear by him, $10 an hour. A fine fella by the name Rostick that people will swear by and will never use anyone else, $10 an hour. People who talk with Rostick thinks he is an American because NO accent, the guys English is that fluent and with no Russian accent. Wonderful female interpreters like Galina, $8 an hour, another 20-30 other fine interpreters in Kiev and Odessa $7 an hour. And once a client use's these individuals they will never use anyone else and they consider that $7 or $8 an hour, or $10 an hour, quite a bargain, as you do with your $20 an hour.

I personally have never had a client who has ever spent $20 an hour for an interpreter and don't think I will ever have such a client, but I guess it's possible.

[Manny]

If Igors service is as good as Donaz states above (all the things which appeal to me also) then I guess $20 is not so terrible, especially if he will give you running advice also!

Maybe a similar thing can be had for $10 but if Igor can get away with $20 and if he gets it, then he is not too expensive if he still has clients is he? Market place determines the price!

If Igor charged $10 he may work more hours but who would think any better of him?

Jack - You must get away from this Soviet style thinking that its all about the money!

There is a reason we dont drive Ladas! 

[BC]

Jack - You must get away from this Soviet style thinking that its all about the money!

As long as we're going down this road again might as well chip in..

I think that interaction and time spent on these boards gives Igors (Stirlitz) potential customers a good 'feel' for his style, attitude and methods.  The same applies for Jack and his direct services.

If I were in the market for a translator/guide (even if it was not related to women), already *knowing* Igor first hand would make the choice much easier even if it involved a few extra bucks.  It certainly would make the first couple days easier and probably more productive since a good part of the 'intro' can be skipped.  I think we would 'click' much faster.

I'm sure there are some other great guys and gals out there but I think I would initially feel a bit like I was on a blind date.