Russian Women Grope

[Bruno]

I love the international flavor of this forum, even though the majority here here American.  Even some of the European members are just transplanted Americans.

And almost all Americans are transplanted European ( white ) or African ( Black )...

Maybe the more American here is JB... He is the only one that i know who have some indian blood...

We are all brother from the same "family"... unfortunaly, it happen sometime that brother have little fight with each other... but the "family" bond stay forever...

[KenC]

(I thought I better get this post in before Dan puts and end to our deviation from the forum topic.)  Currently the wifey drives a Mercedes C320 and I drive a BMW X3 with a Dodge Ram 3/4 ton and a Ford F150 for work purposes.  My first Ford BTW.  I had to sell the wifey's lil Mercedes convertable because she kept running into things with it!  

Coming from Detroit and being born into an automotive family, I had a new car every year beginning with a '68 Roadrunner. (First year made)  My Dad was an executive for Chrysler and I even got 7 years senority there before I escaped to the world of self employment.

Through the years I have always been partial to German cars in particular Porche and Mercedes and always found their quality to be outstanding.  The old S series 500 was one hell of a car.  Only a couple of Toyotas thrown in for deversity (the old Supra and Four Runner)

Kind interesting that the old name plates (Mustang, Charger and soon Challanger) are making strong come backs as well as the Hemi.
KenC

[jb]

Maybe the more American here is JB... He is the only one that i know who have some Indian blood...

BTW, we no longer call them "Indians".  That got started because poor old Christobal Columbus was searching for a quick and easy route to India, and the new spice trade that an easy trade route would engender.  When he landed at Cat Island in the Caribbean, he really, stupidly, erroneously, thought he had arrived in India.  Thus he called the natives he encountered; "Indians".

jb is only 25% native American, there are others with more highly concentrated native American heritage than me.  They are my true brothers. 

[Manny]

Even a Limey like me knows you call "Indians" "Native Americans". And I also know how PC you "Yanks" are 

The UK is just as PC in the south, but here in the north we call a spade a spade! - I am sure Ste will agree!

You dont look very "native American" JB, if you dont mind me saying so....... (more Kenny Rogers actually...... just kidding  )

Hey - Your lady drives a Camry, which you comment gives good MPG (gas mileage) but in the UK we think gas is so cheap in the states that you guys dont even think of it - Last time I was in FL, gas was $1-40 a gallon, and everybody is happily fueliing up 5 litre cars smiling - here in UK (Thanks to Blair) we pay around £1 a litre (around $2-50 for an Imperial gallon - 4.5 litres) And for the guys who like American cars here, with the big V8 engines (Oh yes!) that is quite a cost!

Japenese cars are big in Russia too............ My lady's father aspires to a Honda, he speaks of them in hushed tones - I did not want to tell him that in the UK a Honda is a Black Mans Car or an old mans car (depending on model)

[jb]

I think cross cultural discussions are of some value because without them how will the other half ever understand us?

Much of what we now see as a rift, and a new past between the USA and Europe, is oil. For most of the first half of the G.W. Bush administration, the price of petroleum was around $20-$30 a barrel. We are now well into the era of $60-$70-$80, and the threat of constant shortages.  This energy market frailty has had bad effects on U.S. foreign policy. Our allies in Europe and Japan now view almost any American initiative with Russia, the Middle East, or Latin America in terms of the potential fallout on their own energy costs and supplies.  Everybody is afraid to rock the boat.
 
How can I possibly address the tax issues in the UK that drives the price of automotive fuel to an almost unaffordable level?  Understand this, it costs no more to find, extract, refine and deliver gas to the pump there than it does here.  At about $70 per international barrel oil, subtracting refining and delivery costs, you should be paying about the same cost as we are for a gallon of gas, about $2.75/gal.  If your costs are significantly higher I suggest you find out where the extra money is going.  If it's for a good cause, so be it....But if it's just lining a politicians pocket, maybe it's time for a revolution of your own.

Another issue for Americans is the fading memory of September 11, 2001.  It is hard to keep reminding the American people for five more years that we must lead the fight against the terrorists as we reach the fifth anniversary of that mass murder.  People have short memories, the odd daily suicide bombing in Israel or Baghdad does not refresh the hurts Americans felt right after 9-11-01.  We have not had a repeat of 9-11, and as the memory fades, Americans begin to believe it can't happen again.  That's when the bothersome new security regulations are protested most vigorously and that's when the Michael Moore's of the left are able to most easily sway the middle of the roaders.  It's hard to stay strong in the face of an enemy who doesn't play fair.  Asymmetrical warfare is a new ball game, we are still learning how to wage this kind of fight.

That's why I get ticked off when I see the so-called allies begin to take potshots, they begin to look a lot like fair weather friends.

[Stillkatn]

did I miss the car discussion???  I'm happy to see the same dynamic applies on the board as it does in the bars (pubs).  Guys can be going at each other, then women come up, and then that segues into the cars.  We all love both - so well all got something in common!

BTW - Corvette and a Mazda P/U

[TheHorseman]

Ok,  this is getting to weird.  I not only find myself agreeing with jb, now I find out that I might be related.  I am 1/8 Native American. (Indian)

I still don't get why everyone is pointing their fingers at the US for the problems with Oil.  I have been saying it for the last two years and I still say it.  LOOK at China.  They are industrializing, They are buying everything they can, Steal, Wood, Oil.  Even while I was in Russia teaching, the students there knew about this,  Oktyabrsky is an oil town.  They have an oil University there.

I just got done watching a documentry on the History channel 20 minutes ago.  They said the same thing.  Oil is no different than any other product.  Supply and demand bring the prices up.  Everyone want to blame the Oil companys...... OH they make so much money,,,,, they make billions of dollars a year in profit.  They also spend hundreds of billions a year.  if you look at their profit margin I think you will find that it is less than 10%.  In the horse business I can't servive on less than 35% profit.  Taxes are most of what we pay on fuel here in the states.  It is posted right on the pump.

Another thing.... The democrates (No offence anyone) want you to believe that the Rublicans are bad because they are all big business.  Maybe so.... But who do you think owns stock in those companys.  Not only Republicans.  The democrates want everyone to be the same, They want to look out for you, They want to make sure that you get your share.  We just saw that kind of thinking won't work,,,,,, USSR.

Sorry I know take it somewhere else.

[BillyB]

Taxes are most of what we pay on fuel here in the states. 

Yes, government makes the more than the oil companies from gasoline sold in most every country. They don't have to drill for it, refine it, deliver it, or sell it. The last time I was in Uzbekistan, prices for fuel were approximately 40 cents a litre or about $1.60 a gallon. I believe the oil drilled in Uzbekistan is government controlled and I believe they are not taxing the people on this product. So that means making gasoline shouldn't cost more than 40 cents a litre or $1.60 a gallon at the moment.

 I got a few autos that I love but don't drive on a regular basis. 86 Mercury Cougar with a 5.0, a 1923 T-Bucket(Model T) with a Chevy 350 5.7 Litre engine, and I got a 1934 Ford Coupe kit car that is a future project of mine. I never been to school for mechanics but I know enough to intall motors, transmissions, and wire the car myself. It'll be my first project building a car from scratch.

[catzenmouse]

Last month in Omsk gas was about 1.75 or so for 4 litres.

I'm also 1/8 Native American but of from British Columbia. We just got rid of our Ford Ranger (was getting crowded in the front seat with 3 of us) and now we have an 06 Pontiac Vibe.

[Lada]

All of this talk about cars and not a single mention 

[JPjr]

When in Cheboksary I saw Ladas and Volgas for the first time. Definately the best taxi ride I had was in a Lada, more room front and back,and there was this Volga Limo I really liked.

[TheHorseman]

Cars, Cars, Cars.....  I have had too many cars to count.  Everything from a 67 Buick to a 77 Corvette to a 96 Ford F250 crewcab (I still have the truck)  I got used to the four doors on the crewcab.  I couldn't live with a two door anymore.  I have also had 3 Harleys.  One I built myself..... now my favorite ride is a 1997 Appaloosa.

[JPjr]

Took a 61 Panhead and chopped it and had a brief biker life. Did all the work myself. California biker guy did the paint job, deep blue over pearl. It was pretty sharp. in those days it could be done for about 2500

[TheHorseman]

my first Harley was 73 AMX FLH.  I had a 77 Sporty for about three weeks, didn't like it.  I also had a 81 FXE 80" that I turned into an FLH with an FXWG front end.  I had a friend that worked in a crome shop.  I got $2000 worth of Crome work for $40 and a case of beer.  I have had a couple smaller bikes too.

[wiz]

I think cross cultural discussions are of some value because without them how will the other half ever understand us?

That's why I get ticked off when I see the so-called allies begin to take potshots, they begin to look a lot like fair weather friends.

With due respect may I remind you, as Bob said, this is a board about Russian women.

If I was to reply to the many comments made by Chivo, you and many others on this board about the Brits and Europeans, than I would be accused of turning this board to a Political forum and all hell will break loose! So I refrain from doing so but please do not offend our intelligence with some of your comments.

Here is a cheap shot for you...

Why there is so much Anti-Americanism and hate around the world?

Don't bother to answer because we know the reasons .....

Here in the UK we know very well how heavily the motorists are taxed and for the record a litre of petrol in nearly £1 pound = $1.80+ dollars in the South of England.

Let's stick to women......much nicer to look at...... and don't go to Maidan Sq. right now.....too much trouble!

Have a nice day!

[BillyB]

Why there is so much Anti-Americanism and hate around the world?

I thought there was much love for Americans in this World. Look at all the Asian, European, and Arab countries that want our troops parked on their soil or at least would call on the U.S if under attacked. More than anyone else. Glass half full or half empty, depends on how you view the World and one tends to get an overdose of views similiar to their own due to the type people one hangs with. I've got Arab and European friends who like the U.S. and my friends have favorable view of England. Coincidence? I think not. These are the people I enjoy being with and I chose to be with them. I don't like being around the "hate" crowd. But my firends and I have differences in politics at home. Everyone needs to take comfort that our Countries have a common bond, especially England and the U.S, and we will fight side by side if one or the other is in danger without bickering of who is liked or hated more. It's common place for top countries, nations and empires throughout history to get their fare share of critisms from people from other lands. Roman, English(Early Americans critisized them), Monglian empires etc..had their fair share of "I don't like you" and "you are not as good as you think you are" people.

[Bruno]

Why there is so much Anti-Americanism and hate around the world?

Speulda, Nicole.
Documenting the Phenomenon of Anti-Americanism,
The Princeton Project on National Security, Princeton University, 2005

http://www.wws.princeton.edu/ppns/papers/speulda.pdf

[andrewfi]

Billy ~ There are two aspects of your query. The first is Anti-Americanism in terms of the country and its policies. The second is in terms of Americans as individuals.

As you travel you wil notice that the former is much more common than the latter. In fact most people, unless they have personally had bad experiences dealing with Amerians will have no animus towards Americans.

The problem is that the US is, with very good reason, seen by many as the single most dangerous state in the world. The most bellicose and destabilising influence in the world. The kidnap of people convicted of no crime, their detention and torture, invasions, occupations, political destabilisation, economic imperialism all real and very genuine issues - of course not all of these issues are of equal concern to all the peoples of the world. Those working for the US government, in its many forms, who work in foriegn postings see this at first hand and are often very disappointed by what is happening in government. They, along with their peers from other countries do much good work. The sad thing is that these, often good, people see their efforts negated by what is coming from the top, sometimes driven or supported by ignorant public opinion.

That said, a British friend here was wearing a somewhat scruffy T-shirt with, IIRC some kind of US/Texas design on it. He decided that the thing was to become dusters after seeing a few looks from some local folk. But, even though Britain is very well respected here, I doubt that I would feel entirely comfortable wearing a Tshirt emblazoned with the Union flag or Cross of Saint George...

Don't forget, foreign policy is NEVER altruistic in intent. It is ALWAYS framed with the interests of the framers in paramount position, although sometimes there is a positive effect for the targets of those policies. I have a funny feeling that many non-Americans understand this better than most Americans. But this gap in undersanding tends to explain the anguished whines of many Americans who feel the world and his brother should love them. I think this is where Americans as individuals have something to learn and why, from time to time, they feel they are not liked. The reality is that many Americans feel they are not liked ENOUGH and they perceive this 'not enoughness' as negativity. It is not. But most people are pretty indifferent to all foreigners.
You, as an individual, are not special, but if you carry with you an air of entitlement then the indifference which is the norm, and your reasonable expectation, can quickly change to negativity. If your predecessors were not well liked then, naturally, if wrongly, you will be tarred with the same brush.

If you want to see less 'anti-Americanism' do something to change the way that the US sees the world. Sadly, not even changing the party for which you vote will do the trick. A paradigm shift (or several) is required. Do something to educate yourselves about national and international politics. Learn some history and select elected leaders and officials who have a different worldview than the current lot. (yeah, like that's going to happen!)

[jb]

Andrew,

Most Americans would be delighted to bring all our troops home and never see another shot fired in anger anywhere in the world.  We would be happy if the world's terror groups all of the sudden laid down their weapons and put aside their suicide bombs, if the madmen of the world suddenly got a dose of that *old time religion* and actually started to love their neighbor as they love themself, there would be rejoicing in the streets.  We would also love to see a level playing field WRT trade, last I looked we were running close to an annual 500 Bn dollar trade deficit,,,again.  Like most people, you probably snicker and giggle at this issue, after all, if those silly Americans are soooo stupid why not take advantage of them, yeah,,, really stick it to 'em good.  Well,,, on the plus side, there are an awful lot of rice bowls around the world with something to eat in them because of that deficit, the negative side is that it appears to be yet another insidious form of UN taxation borne by the American consumer. 

We would also love to be able to look the other way, as the Europeans have for decades, when we hear babies cry from hunger in Africa, having to look is very expensive.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could keep all those foreign aid dollars at home for a few years, balance our books and get our financial house in order.  The US has been doling out vast quantiles of foreign aid since 1926, when do we say that's enough, no more?  Personally I'm sick of seeing the USA having to mortgage our grandchildren's and great-grandchildren's wages and futures just to put down another, one more, European or Middle-Eastern madman wearing a funny hat whose ideas on the subject of racial purity run contrary to common decency.  Europeans, especially, are a lot like that motorist we see stranded on the side of the road, out of gas (petrol), we stop and give you a few gallons of gas to get you going again, (we just happened to have a few extra gallons in the back of the truck that we had bought to use in our lawnmower), and you complain that we didn't siphon the rest of our tank and give that to you as well.  We had another use for that gas, but we gave it to help you out, however, it seems whatever we do, it's either wrong or it's never enough. 

Further, we would love to be able to close and protect our borders from illegal immigration and from those who wish us harm.  As a cherry on top, most of us would also love to see the US get out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US.  We are it's progenitor and principal financial supporter, yet it has turned into a forum where the poor countries stand there with their hand outstretched for more US aid dollars on one day, and rail against American imperialism the next.  Who needs the extra grief? 

Now, honestly, tell me again why there is so much anti-Americanism expressed by those of you in Europe whose governments either directly or indirectly suck at the teat of American largess.  Also, please reassure me that if we did bring all our troops home, if the cop stopped walking the beat in the world's worst neighborhoods, that there will be peace, harmony, love, brotherhood, and honesty prevail in the absence of American intervention.  Promise me that somewhere in the recesses of Europe there isn't another Hitler waiting in the dark, just waiting for his chance for a madman's glory, because I promise you, every American man here would go to his grave with a smile on his face if he knew his children and grandchildren would never have to don a uniform and pick up a gun to fight again in another war that started somewhere in Europe, the Middle East, or Asia.   

I'm also smart enough to know it's not going to happen because already you have another madman (Iran) developing nuclear capability within missile range of Europe and nobody in Europe has the guts to step up to the plate and put a stop to it.  Europe won't do anything because Iran's stated goal is the distruction of Israel and that's OK with most of Europe, they don't like Jews very much anyway. Only after it gets to the point of blackmailing Europe for excessive concessions and give-aways, that's when it will become America's fault that something wasn't done back when Iran's bomb was just a pipedream and not a reality.  As I said, whatever we do is never enough.

Of course, then there's N. Korea already with the bomb and another madman at the wheel.  It just never stops and the hits just keep coming.

[Manny]

 

Now, honestly, tell me again why there is so much anti-Americanism expressed by those of you in Europe whose governments either directly or indirectly suck at the teat of American largess. 

I fail to see how any European country is sucking at Americas breast?

[jb]

One word for you, NATO.

Who funds the lion's share of it, and whose troops have traditionally and principally populated the bases which have protected Europe since 1946?  If Europe had to pay for it's own defense, the value of the Euro would be half of present worth. 

[TheHorseman]

They will never get it jb.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink..... You can give a person a brain, but you can't make them think.

[Manny]

They?

Curiously enough I was discussing the 'them and us' mentality that seems to lurk here with the Author of this very thread...............

Below I will quote with his permission from that e mail.........

As for Americans, let me just say that it is my firm opinion that
America is a divided nation heading straight to hell in a handbasket. I
have many American friends who share that view. But don't take my word
for it, do your own research and speak to Americans from both sides of
the cultural and political ravine that divide the 'greatest nation on
earth.' In guys like 'Edited' and 'Edited' you see a microcosm of the two
camps, both armed to the teeth and both implacably opposed to the other.
One committed to political and cultural American supremacy on the world
stage at any price and ready to commit the vilest acts and rip up the
constitution to secure their selfish and materialistic ends, and the
other committed to the principles of genuine freedom and democracy for
ALL, regardless of race, colour, creed or socio-economic status.

Whilst many so-called 'democrats' fall into the latter category, one
cannot simply divide Americans into right-wing Rethuglicans and
homo-loving, baby-killing, limp-wristed Democrats. The divisions that
polarise and wrack American society go much deeper than that and cross
political and social boundaries.

I could recite countless examples of the 'American schizophrenia' that
is tearing that nation apart. Let one suffice. Recently the state of
Louisiana voted to outlaw sex toys. Mississippi, Georgia and Texas
already have similar legislation on the statute books. In all four
states it is perfectly legal to buy, sell, own and carry guns. In short,
a woman can buy a weapon that can take an innocent human life faster
than you can say 'consider that a divorce,' but she cannot buy a
vibrator to pleasure herself with. You may take this as a metaphor for
many of the issues that divide America; I do.

I will reiterate that I am not anti American, I do however find the US opinion about themselves and their purpose in the world somewhat amusing.

On that note - I am off this topic.

You guys continue to slap yourselves on the back and congatulate yourselves.

Have a nice day! 

[wiz]

Andrew,

Most Americans would be delighted to bring all our troops home and never see another shot fired in anger anywhere in the world.  We would be happy if the world's terror groups all of the sudden laid down their weapons and put aside their suicide bombs, if the madmen of the world suddenly got a dose of that *old time religion* and actually started to love their neighbor as they love themself, there would be rejoicing in the streets.  We would also love to see a level playing field WRT trade, last I looked we were running close to an annual 500 Bn dollar trade deficit,,,again.  Like most people, you probably snicker and giggle at this issue, after all, if those silly Americans are soooo stupid why not take advantage of them, yeah,,, really stick it to 'em good.  Well,,, on the plus side, there are an awful lot of rice bowls around the world with something to eat in them because of that deficit, the negative side is that it appears to be yet another insidious form of UN taxation borne by the American consumer. 

We would also love to be able to look the other way, as the Europeans have for decades, when we hear babies cry from hunger in Africa, having to look is very expensive.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could keep all those foreign aid dollars at home for a few years, balance our books and get our financial house in order.  The US has been doling out vast quantiles of foreign aid since 1926, when do we say that's enough, no more?  Personally I'm sick of seeing the USA having to mortgage our grandchildren's and great-grandchildren's wages and futures just to put down another, one more, European or Middle-Eastern madman wearing a funny hat whose ideas on the subject of racial purity run contrary to common decency.  Europeans, especially, are a lot like that motorist we see stranded on the side of the road, out of gas (petrol), we stop and give you a few gallons of gas to get you going again, (we just happened to have a few extra gallons in the back of the truck that we had bought to use in our lawnmower), and you complain that we didn't siphon the rest of our tank and give that to you as well.  We had another use for that gas, but we gave it to help you out, however, it seems whatever we do, it's either wrong or it's never enough. 

Further, we would love to be able to close and protect our borders from illegal immigration and from those who wish us harm.  As a cherry on top, most of us would also love to see the US get out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US.  We are it's progenitor and principal financial supporter, yet it has turned into a forum where the poor countries stand there with their hand outstretched for more US aid dollars on one day, and rail against American imperialism the next.  Who needs the extra grief? 

Now, honestly, tell me again why there is so much anti-Americanism expressed by those of you in Europe whose governments either directly or indirectly suck at the teat of American largess.  Also, please reassure me that if we did bring all our troops home, if the cop stopped walking the beat in the world's worst neighborhoods, that there will be peace, harmony, love, brotherhood, and honesty prevail in the absence of American intervention.  Promise me that somewhere in the recesses of Europe there isn't another Hitler waiting in the dark, just waiting for his chance for a madman's glory, because I promise you, every American man here would go to his grave with a smile on his face if he knew his children and grandchildren would never have to don a uniform and pick up a gun to fight again in another war that started somewhere in Europe, the Middle East, or Asia.   

I'm also smart enough to know it's not going to happen because already you have another madman (Iran) developing nuclear capability within missile range of Europe and nobody in Europe has the guts to step up to the plate and put a stop to it.  Europe won't do anything because Iran's stated goal is the distruction of Israel and that's OK with most of Europe, they don't like Jews very much anyway. Only after it gets to the point of blackmailing Europe for excessive concessions and give-aways, that's when it will become America's fault that something wasn't done back when Iran's bomb was just a pipedream and not a reality.  As I said, whatever we do is never enough.

Of course, then there's N. Korea already with the bomb and another madman at the wheel.  It just never stops and the hits just keep coming.

So America since the WWII ended is helping the world out of the goodness of its heart and not to support its own interests around the world?

Why don’t you tell that to the people of Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Nicaragua, Somalia, Serbia, Egypt, Palestine, Cyprus, Congo, ……… and so on and lastly to Iraq! Since the end of the WWII USA fought over 23 wars, invaded most of these countries or supported undemocratic regimes. Now the present administration is telling everybody that wants to teach and help to establish Democracy in undemocratic nations, like Iraq and other Muslim countries.

Let me make it clear that I am talking about American foreign policy and no individual American people, who in the majority are nice people.

I would advise you to have another read of the principals for the creation of the UN which, USA has over the years undermined and treated as its own domain and used its Veto when its own interests and of its allies has been critiqued and finally totally ignored UN with the Iraq war, thus making this organisation, today, nearly ineffective.

The hypocrisy of your comments regarding Iran is obvious when taken into consideration that your president signed an agreement with India to be allowed and helped to build its own nuclear capability.

Who has given USA the right to occupy the moral high ground and dictate to other nations what they can do or not in defence or in support of the energy policies of their country?

Is it because Iran has the 20% of the oil world production and USA is looking for an excuse to invade and plunder that country or because Israel, your local policeman, is dictating USA its foreign policy? How many years before Iran has been developing its nuclear capability and followed the guide lines of IAO, before your current administration started making noises?

Did I hear any complains and condemnation from USA against Israel for its nuclear capacity and for the constant terrorism of the Palestinians and daily killings of innocent people? What about the bombings of Lebanon? Didn’t USA Veto a critical decision of the UN the day before yesterday criticising Israel?

About North Korea, why don’t USA use its usual tactics and invade that country, if you feel threaten? Is it because they can retaliate in kind or because China is supporting it?

As about us the clever Europeans, who suck to your tits of largesse’s, are we the ungrateful ones who have created the EU and the EURO which challenges the American Dollar as dominant currency around the world and threaten USA stability? Is this the reason why your administration interferes and try to impose to EU, your stooge, Turkey’s membership to EU, or the fact that your influence between the 25 nations of EU has diminished and only UK remains your close ally?

Why don’t you try and dictate to China to devalue its currency or to Russia to stop its international expansion with its oil, gas and diamonds production?

Sorry my friend but USA is the biggest terrorist in the world and is viewed like that by the majority of the population of most countries and remains the biggest threat for global stability because of its unilateral thinking and power and the actions of its administration.

As Bob said before, lets stick to our prime subject of interest, Russian women, which is much nicer to talk about than international politics, which you are fully aware are dirty in any shape of form!

[Admin]

Guys (not directed to anyone in particular),

This topic has, IMO, outlived its usefulness at this time.

For that reason, I am going to lock it now.

- Dan