Hello from North Carolina

[JayH]

That's a bit unfair.  See my previous comments as to why I think so.  Moby gave some thoughtful and supportive commentary, but to say Jay is correct?  He didn't even write anything, just threw out 2 emoticons repeated over and over to demonstrate what an angry dick or no importance he is.

You should have taken your shoes off while you were counting ! That would be 3 emoticons !
You can't get much right can ya !

[Boethius]

There are scammers in Russia. Posters have written about them.

Russia chose to prosecute websites for fraudulent activities. Ukraine does not. I suspect if one stays off pay sites, the number of scammers is equal in proportion to the populations.

[drsecu]

Does the Pole know she's just joining you for fun rather than the possibility of something more?

That is not how I intended it, don't intend to lead anyone on.

[2tallbill]

I steer clear of lawyers, but that's just me! 

I always steered clear of artists. There are no bigger group of flakes in the FSU.

[2tallbill]

Here it is.  On the subject of FSU dating theory, I do believe Bill applied a third approach, which is a hybrid strategy of WOVO and WMVM.  WOVO with back up plan. 

And it worked for Bill.

When you spend so much time, effort, energy and emotions on one girl jumping
to the backup plan is easier said than done, however I do recommend it, as does
the forum 10 commandments.


1. Never send money to someone you have never met.

2. Always have a back-up plan.

3. Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.

4. Always get the lady's home address and home phone number as early as possible.

5. Verify the ladies you are writing to are real.

6. Do not fall in love with photos!!

7. Always be yourself. Show the ladies the real you. Be truthful. Use current photos.

8. Do not rush into this! Take your time and be methodical, not impulsive, about this process.

9. Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process.
Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.

10. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAIL-ORDER BRIDE! They do not exist.

[msmob]

..and *I* still say having a back up plan - might be suicide - if you are on a WOVO

Based on the possibility of the primary target knowing the 'backup' comparing notes and BANG all that effort wasted ..

Happened for real :  American guy who was coming to Cyprus to meet a lass - but kept a backup -  they knew each other and planned to NOT tell him and meet him, together at the airport ...

I persuaded the primary target to tell him she knew and he never came ..


Bill - I think you sought out dates and met Angel Eyes AFTER your primary target didn't work out, right ?

[Trenchcoat]

I think TC's posts on this thread show that he has gotten a lot less clueless.  He is starting to figure this out.  He's in pole position because he has a quality that many many, including on this forum don't have, and that is the ability and open-mindedness to learn.  Kudos to him for that, and further recognition that he is able to work out what doesn't work for him and comes up with an approach that he feels is more suited to him personally.

Trench - are you going to Kiev/Ukraine again?  Why not try Russia?  Much less to worry about in the way of scammers.  They have more personal pride here.    Not to say that there aren't good Ukrainian girls, and some members here have found one of their own.  I enjoyed my time in Ukraine and was impressed with the quality of the people, I just think there are less risks in Russia.  It's a numbers game with the hope you can find the needle in the haystack.

Thanks Bounder I appreciate the support Yes I am going to Kiev again, lol. I had always intended Russia but plans got altered somewhat. I think like yourself I may have found someone hence Kiev again, but I cannot be certain until I get there and we meet but signs are good. I am pleased that you have found someone what with Wall also finding someone it looks like a bit of a winning streak here on RWD. Goes to show that your strategy of moving out there as far out as it sounded actually paid off! Anyway, depending on how things go for me in Kiev I hope to check out Moscow and/or SPB soon - hopefully this year as a quick few days just to check out the city so I get a greater appreciation of FSU society/culture. I would only look for girls/stay longer in these cities if it all went south with the girl I am meeting in Kiev, but of course all my stakes at the moment are on her.       

[Boethius]

No money no honey

Fishing in the wrong pond.

[Gator]

That is not how I intended it, don't intend to lead anyone on.

I 75% agree with you. 

The 75% in agreement:

Your first dates should be about having fun together.  If you can not have fun together there is no reason to think about something serious, certainly nothing as serious as marriage. 

I suggest no one walk around  with a sign around his neck  saying "WIFE WANTED"  or "WIFE VACANCY."  Do not appear needy.  RW admire strong, confident men. 

Nor do you want to meet women who are desperate to marry and leave their country.  Find someone happy with their life and their country, only wanting to expand their dating pool in the search for Mr. Right, and adventurous enough to relocate to a strange land and build a brand new life there.
 

The 25% in disagreement:

If a woman wanted only fun, she has plenty of young men in her city who speak her language and show her a good time.  Thus, you must always demonstrably convince her of your seriousness about life, your job, your family,  and relationships.  If you like her, state that you long for a loving, enduring relationship without making it appear that you are asking for such with her..  And if you really like her, somehow make her feel you are ready for marriage and all that comes with that:  kids, two cars, house, dog, mortgage.....the "complete disaster."   Then see what develops.   

[ML]

And if you really like her, somehow make her feel you are ready for marriage . . .

Show her engagement ring . . . and wedding band.
Tell her they will be sized once the wife is found.

[wallm]

And if you really like her, somehow make her feel you are ready for marriage and all that comes with that:  kids, two cars, house, dog, mortgage.....the "complete disaster."   Then see what develops.

Shit, man! I didn't think about all this. I am going to break up with the lady I am pursuing.

[Gator]

Shit, man! I didn't think about all this. I am going to break up with the lady I am pursuing.

And I did not include the divorce lawyer fees.   

It is fruitless to fight it - we are hardwired to live as a family. 

[drsecu]

I think I've generally not trusted and pushed away anyone that didn't have a facebook, VK or instagram account.  Plus anyone that appeared to be husband shopping.  I think everyone I am a talking to now is in the group that they are not big fans of moving far away from their family but would for the right person.   I seem to be really into this ukrainian snowboarder that lives in russia and most of the rest are lawyers.  Do slavic lawyers have to know english?  There has to be some correlation because they appear to be real.   

Asked off for 3 weeks in July.  Disney trip for kids then off to europe.  No plans yet but after all the advise I'm still leaning toward Kiev as base with possibility to make 2 sub trips once there.  Targeting 10 days still, it is going to be at least 3 flights to get there.  Probably avoiding Russia due to visa, and its too spread out.  Everyone I've talked to in russia travels, I'm sure I can buy them tickets if needed to Kiev.  I'm questioning if it is even worth the effort planning, rather I just get into Kiev and see where I stand and head out from there.

Is there an end game to the email scams.  How do they make money, I've let several play out and they have never asked for anything.  Where does the scam part come into play?

Is there a better away to explain my life situation.  I have 50/50 custody of my kids.  My ex wife is a lesbian now, which likely played a part in divorce.  I get the impression they are perplexed that I am involved my kids at all, or expect I must be the bad guy if I divorced someone that gave me 3 kids. I've blamed it on cultural difference and use that to explain why am looking overseas.

[BillyB]

Is there an end game to the email scams.  How do they make money, I've let several play out and they have never asked for anything.  Where does the scam part come into play?

Some scammers just hint they have problems in life that of course are solved with money. Enough guys out there will step up to the plate to rescue those ladies without even being asked to do so. Scamming can be big business. Putin had arrested a husband and wife team who ended up scamming western men for $1.5 million

[2tallbill]

Bill - I think you sought out dates and met Angel Eyes AFTER your primary target didn't work out, right ?

Exactly,

I've nicknamed the visit one girl GEG

My backup plan was to meet others only IF things didn't work out.
I never seen nor contacted any of the girls before. I was going to meet
exclusively with one girl. Once things didn't work out with GEG I started
writing other girls and asking them to meet for coffee, tea (and cake if I
wanted to sweeten the deal)

I met with several girls before meeting Angel Eyes. I never asked any of
them for a second date. My advice is to never date a girl twice who isn't
an excellent candidate for Mrs ____________ your name here.

When I met Angel Eyes, something clicked. I had one future date scheduled
which I canceled, I stopped dating and pursued Angel Eyes exclusively.

[Anotherkiwi]

Probably avoiding Russia due to visa, and its too spread out.  Everyone I've talked to in russia travels, I'm sure I can buy them tickets if needed to Kiev.

How?  In case you weren't aware/had forgotten, there are no flights from Russia to Ukraine.  If you want to meet a Russian (resident) woman in Kyiv, she will have to fly from wherever she lives to a third country before travelling to Ukraine.  You and she would both have to be very sure of each other before committing to that.

It's far more likely that she will dump you if you can't be bothered making the effort to travel to her home country, let alone her city or town.  Unless you have something weird, military or extremely political in your background, getting a visitor's visa for Russia should be a piece of cake.

[Boethius]

Is there a better away to explain my life situation.  I have 50/50 custody of my kids.  My ex wife is a lesbian now, which likely played a part in divorce.  I get the impression they are perplexed that I am involved my kids at all, or expect I must be the bad guy if I divorced someone that gave me 3 kids. I've blamed it on cultural difference and use that to explain why am looking overseas.

Just be honest. In the Slavic parts of the FSU, there is a view that children belong to the mother.

If your children are young, your primary obligation is to them. FSUW, in general terms, are not great stepmothers. If she has her own biological children, those children will always come first. So, decide now if your FSUW is more important to you than your children.

[msmob]

Exactly,

I've nicknamed the visit one girl GEG

My backup plan was to meet others only IF things didn't work out.

Thanks for explaining

I never seen nor contacted any of the girls before. I was going to meet
exclusively with one girl. Once things didn't work out with GEG I started
writing other girls and asking them to meet for coffee, tea (and cake if I
wanted to sweeten the deal)

I met with several girls before meeting Angel Eyes. I never asked any of
them for a second date. My advice is to never date a girl twice who isn't
an excellent candidate for Mrs ____________ your name here.

When I met Angel Eyes, something clicked. I had one future date scheduled
which I canceled, I stopped dating and pursued Angel Eyes exclusively.

 

[drsecu]

Just be honest. In the Slavic parts of the FSU, there is a view that children belong to the mother.

If your children are young, your primary obligation is to them. FSUW, in general terms, are not great stepmothers. If she has her own biological children, those children will always come first. So, decide now if your FSUW is more important to you than your children.

I really don't view my future spouse as a replacement parent.  I've been rolling that way the last 4-5 years.  I don't view it as choosing one over the other.

[drsecu]

How?  In case you weren't aware/had forgotten, there are no flights from Russia to Ukraine.....

Ah, no I didn't know that.

[Boethius]

I really don't view my future spouse as a replacement parent.  I've been rolling that way the last 4-5 years.  I don't view it as choosing one over the other.

I didn't post that you would view her as a replacement parent. But most future FSUW will have opinions on how you are raising your children. Any wife you have will interact with your children.

[drsecu]

The kid issue is the biggest thing for sure, it seems the FSUW go onto dating sites as a last effort to have a kids.  First messages to me are always do you want more kids, and first responses to my messages are often "Sorry I want to the first woman to give my man a child".  Any of our members here have kids and gone through this and can offer their advise? I could be open additional kids with the right one, but not a decision I would rush into.  Most of the younger hot girls I have gone out with USA don't want kids or are indifferent to making the choice so soon.  Previous post points out a big risk any relationship would be taking, how would I know how the relationship between the new women and my kids would work out prior to them moving here, as well as how do I get to know them well enough to make that choice before committing.  Maybe I didn't think everything through before jumping in.

[wallm]

The ladies I spoke to all told me they want to have more kids. The lady I am pursuing now has an 18-year old and she asked me straight up if I am open to having more children as she wants one. If the lady doesn't have any children, she will want to have at least one. Nobody said to me she wants "our kid" to be the first one. It certainly is not a small matter as raising kids in this country is expensive.

[Gator]

The kid issue is the biggest thing for sure, it seems the FSUW go onto dating sites as a last effort to have a kids.  First messages to me are always do you want more kids, and first responses to my messages are often "Sorry I want to the first woman to give my man a child".  Any of our members here have kids and gone through this and can offer their advise? I could be open additional kids with the right one, but not a decision I would rush into.  Most of the younger hot girls I have gone out with USA don't want kids or are indifferent to making the choice so soon.  Previous post points out a big risk any relationship would be taking, how would I know how the relationship between the new women and my kids would work out prior to them moving here, as well as how do I get to know them well enough to make that choice before committing.  Maybe I didn't think everything through before jumping in.

If a man truly loved a woman, and she wanted a baby, and he is still young enough to be a good father, I assert he would want to have a child with her. OTOH, true love takes time, for which there is no substitute, so you can not answer the question early in the relationship. 

Regarding the question of your current kids and a RW, you can get a small preview by meeting her in the DR and bringing your children with you for a 1-2 week holiday.  Or she could get a tourist visa and come to your home for an extended stay.

It will not be easy.  How many blended American families get along well?  Now add a language and cultural barrier.   Much depends upon your kids.  What age are they?  Do they want to see daddy happy?  Or do they cling to the false hope that mommy and daddy will get back together someday?

[drsecu]

If a man truly loved a woman, and she wanted a baby, and he is still young enough to be a good father, I assert he would want to have a child with her. OTOH, true love takes time, for which there is no substitute, so you can not answer the question early in the relationship. 

Agree it takes time.  As for reasons to not have more children there are many.  Its a huge financial investment for one, especially with obamacare wreaking our health care system.  Its effects ability to travel freely.  I can retire at 50, so I would probably have a 7-8yr old when I retire. 

It will not be easy.  How many blended American families get along well?  Now add a language and cultural barrier.   Much depends upon your kids.  What age are they?  Do they want to see daddy happy?  Or do they cling to the false hope that mommy and daddy will get back together someday?

It is very much hit and miss.  But having a new kid is probably easier than mixing already grown kids mixed.  I had a live in girlfriend for several years and things went well with her kids she already had.  My kids are 8, 12, 13.  Their mom is a lesbian now, in any case they know we are not getting back together.  Teens are very much about their friends and social life, so my oldest kids would probably barely notice new wife and future kid.