To the Pearl of the Black Sea

[BillyB]

Good girls can become bored or feel they have missed out on certain life experiences. Or drift apart, or x,y,z. I have seen it a million times. One of my best friends married a beautiful blonde Brazilian girl. Sweetest, nicest girl in the World. They would go on vacations separately. They drifted apart and a bigger, better guy snatched up her. We just think differently I suppose.

I think you're the first guy to rationalize that good girls are the bad girls and bad girls are better girls with the risk amounting to greater reward. Why do you feel Anya is risky?

Not sure, this is what I was told and I have no reason to think she is lying. The girls may tip each other off I would think? Would make perfect sense, no? Especially if friends or they run in the same circle.

So and so has lots of money and is very naive. This guy is very good looking, writes nice letters - seems decent. This guy from x country is a pervert, don't show up for the date.

A girl wouldn't insult a man she likes asking for money. Agency girls do that to people they don't like. Anya couldn't have liked you two months ago when you sent money Western Union. You were a stranger to her just like the other guys. You didn't have a special place in her heart. After you announced you were coming into town, Anya all of a sudden feels you are the greatest thing and brings her mom to the airport to meet you. She didn't invest even one second typing you messages in the months you communicated with her.


Anya can use her own computer at home to communicate with you. She doesn't need her friend at the agency to do all the writing.

[rw_recruiter]

I think you're the first guy to rationalize that good girls are the bad girls and bad girl is better girls with the risk amounting to greater reward. Why do you feel Anya is risky?

You are confused again. I don't feel she is a risk. You apparently do, but whatever. My point is that what happened yesterday does not mean it will occur today, and you have no idea what will happen tomorrow. There is no "good" or "bad" but many layers of constant decisions and changes in people.

Anya can use her own computer at home to communicate with you. She doesn't need her friend at the agency to do all the writing.

She had no access to the profile and like several here have said, probably doubtful a guy may show up. To be honest I have no idea if she even has a computer.

In my industry we have to get past the gatekeepers many times. Wallm mentioned this in another thread, he knows. I view it the same way. Very basic social engineering.

[rw_recruiter]

Anyways, I am not looking to marry Laura Ingalls Wilder so most of what you are telling me to do I find ridiculous Billy.

[BillyB]

I don't feel she is a risk.

You've said a few times here that risk equals reward when talking about getting the girl. I've never felt this endeavor and any girl I wanted to live my life with was risky. If a girl was risky, I'd let another guy deal with her. Finding love isn't like investing in stocks. Some people are better at figuring out others and minimize their risk. Other people seem to allow all the wrong people into their life.

To be honest I have no idea if she even has a computer.

Hopefully she someday feel you're special enough to invite into her home so you can see what she owns, what she can afford, and how she lives.


Anyway, for a girl who had nothing to do with the agency and no access to her profile, she seemed to find a way to get men to Western Union her money no problem.

[rw_recruiter]

Billy the LOVE Gooroo   

[rw_recruiter]

Tomorrow morning we are going on a "safari" in the new animal park by Anya's fathers house. I am told they cram you in a box in the back of a pickup and drive through the fenced off animal enclosures. Makes you wonder about safety here in Ukraine. Anya;s father says he can hear the lions roar from his backyard.

Afterwards we will go over to Anya's fathers house to visit babushka. She has invited us over for a large late lunch. I will cook lasagna tonight and heat that up once we arrive. Babushka will show me her garden, of which she is very proud. Her father his pride and joy. How he makes home made wine.

[jone]

You are confused again. I don't feel she is a risk. You apparently do, but whatever. My point is that what happened yesterday does not mean it will occur today, and you have no idea what will happen tomorrow. There is no "good" or "bad" but many layers of constant decisions and changes in people.

She had no access to the profile and like several here have said, probably doubtful a guy may show up. To be honest I have no idea if she even has a computer.

In my industry we have to get past the gatekeepers many times. Wallm mentioned this in another thread, he knows. I view it the same way. Very basic social engineering.

Many here do not understand that the agency girls think that talking to men on the computer is a job - a distasteful one at that.  Every once in awhile a guy comes along that fits their profile of who they would like to spend time with.

I do not view agency girls as without morals.  And upon finding a man who meets their criteria, whether directly or indirectly, they are certainly inclined to jump in the water.

While I am not in total agreement with the bolded sentence above, as I think decisions repeat themselves in an individual's life, the op has hit the nail on the head for this particular instance and with this particular woman.

[HoundDaddyLee]

TMD I am already in STEM but in UK it does not pay well, f

I call BS on the above. Just had an interview last month with a UK company and was offered a job for more than I make here in the US (let's just say a little shy of $200K/year). The fact that I would have to live in London was the deal killer. While I spent 3 months in London on a project in 2001 and loved every minute of it. I do not want to live there. I enjoy driving too much and driving in London looked to be hellish 16 years ago. It could not have improved.


My point? TC, if you are good at a STEM job, you can make equal or more in UK. Granted, I have only one data point, but the people I worked with 16 years ago were doing well. I will let Moby or any of our other UK members chime in if they think my case is just an outliar (SP).


HDL

[jone]

I call BS on the above. Just had an interview last month with a UK company and was offered a job for more than I make here in the US (let's just say a little shy of $200K/year). The fact that I would have to live in London was the deal killer. While I spent 3 months in London on a project in 2001 and loved every minute of it. I do not want to live there. I enjoy driving too much and driving in London looked to be hellish 16 years ago. It could not have improved.


My point? TC, if you are good at a STEM job, you can make equal or more in UK. Granted, I have only one data point, but the people I worked with 16 years ago were doing well. I will let Moby or any of our other UK members chime in if they think my case is just an outliar (SP).


HDL

Yes, but in the United Kingdom, they hire by the inch.  And we all know how tall you are.   

[msmob]

I will let Moby or any of our other UK members chime in if they think my case is just an outliar (SP).

Honestly can't comment..I haven't drawn a salary for years ... I am unemployable ... can only work for myself ... living off ill gotten gains from times past )

 

[Trenchcoat]

I call BS on the above. Just had an interview last month with a UK company and was offered a job for more than I make here in the US (let's just say a little shy of $200K/year). The fact that I would have to live in London was the deal killer. While I spent 3 months in London on a project in 2001 and loved every minute of it. I do not want to live there. I enjoy driving too much and driving in London looked to be hellish 16 years ago. It could not have improved.


My point? TC, if you are good at a STEM job, you can make equal or more in UK. Granted, I have only one data point, but the people I worked with 16 years ago were doing well. I will let Moby or any of our other UK members chime in if they think my case is just an outliar (SP).


HDL

I would love to be offered that sort of money (200k a year) but with UK employers they very, very, rarely offer anywhere near the sort, you must be in very high demand to be offered that sort of money and be seen as an absolute necessity. Looks like for sure there are some very wealthy members on here that would make my little pile look insignificant. Davo in comparison could be considered quite poor though his salary is not too bad. Though as has been demonstrated on here showing much in display of wealth is nearly always a bad idea when dating FSW as BillyB rightly put it your best of just saying you can support a family and leave it more or less at that. I would not though in my right mind lead a girl on such that I would make out I could support a family yet had little to be able to do so. It seems like some of the salaries bounded around on this thread make people think large salaries are commonplace but in reality few get them, especially in UK well known for its tight fisted employers, lol. I recall the poll on here of members a year or so back now and most were on a moderate salary of 20-30k a few a little more, some a little less and I regard as that as the usual situation for most people. End of the day I don't see why FSW should feel they are entitled to finding someone fabulously wealthy anyway, most come from very poor backgrounds so any small improvement should make them feel more comfortable in their situation compared to what it was.

Ah, just seen me Mobe's reply, well yes that about sums up the UK situation if you want to stand much chance of earning decent money in UK you need to work for yourself. Sometimes as Moby rightfully states it becomes a necessity since employers are so difficult in this country. They want to pay a pittance and then also be ridiculously picky over who they take on.

[msmob]

Ah, just seen me Mobe's reply, well yes that about sums up the UK situation if you want to stand much chance of earning decent money in UK you need to work for yourself. Sometimes as Moby rightfully states it becomes a necessity since employers are so difficult in this country. They want to pay a pittance and then also be ridiculously picky over who they take on.

Nonsense, as usual .... I know plenty of guys I went to school / Uni with who will get good pensions and weren't as 'bright' as me .. I just chose to work for myself as I found bosses didn't appreciate it when I thought my way was better  

[HoundDaddyLee]

I would love to be offered that sort of money (200k a year) but with UK employers they very, very, rarely offer anywhere near the sort, you must be in very high demand to be offered that sort of money and be seen as an absolute necessity. Looks like for sure there are some very wealthy members on here that would make my little pile look insignificant. Davo in comparison could be considered quite poor though his salary is not too bad. Though as has been demonstrated on here showing much in display of wealth is nearly always a bad idea when dating FSW as BillyB rightly put it your best of just saying you can support a family and leave it more or less at that. I would not though in my right mind lead a girl on such that I would make out I could support a family yet had little to be able to do so. It seems like some of the salaries bounded around on this thread make people think large salaries are commonplace but in reality few get them, especially in UK well known for its tight fisted employers, lol. I recall the poll on here of members a year or so back now and most were on a moderate salary of 20-30k a few a little more, some a little less and I regard as that as the usual situation for most people. End of the day I don't see why FSW should feel they are entitled to finding someone fabulously wealthy anyway, most come from very poor backgrounds so any small improvement should make them feel more comfortable in their situation compared to what it was.

Ah, just seen me Mobe's reply, well yes that about sums up the UK situation if you want to stand much chance of earning decent money in UK you need to work for yourself. Sometimes as Moby rightfully states it becomes a necessity since employers are so difficult in this country. They want to pay a pittance and then also be ridiculously picky over who they take on.

200K/year is not "wealthy" in the US or UK. Get up to  $750K you are getting close. But you are correct I work in a highly sought after field and am in demand. I have also continued to keep my skills current. I believe in the concept that you have to work hard to get rewarded. Based on what Moby says and what I saw in my brief time in London, UK businesses are like US businesses. If you feel you are underpaid for your field, the problem is probably staring back at you in the mirror...


HDL

[Jumper]

Not sure, this is what I was told and I have no reason to think she is lying. The girls may tip each other off I would think? Would make perfect sense, no? Especially if friends or they run in the same circle.

So and so has lots of money and is very naive. This guy is very good looking, writes nice letters - seems decent. This guy from x country is a pervert, don't show up for the date.

As far as so many nice guys messaging they tell me that is not the case. Most are creeps or weird foreigners looking to kill time.

I posted  in another thread that serious men,are not the bulk of what the agencies profit from.
They prefer the guy that never comes,and a huge percent never do,and never intended to.
 I've been in the affiliates back rooms while the girls worked.
Many are indeed answering their own profile messages, and maybe some others as well.
During , they also  send vid chat requests, or its often done automatically if they are logged in,and yes their interface with the site is different than the mans.
Or they answer incoming chat requests.
If they have their messages all caught up,some sleep (as many have day jobs) if a chat request comes in for them ,their friends wake them up. Yes they talk amongst themselves, and if a girl likes a guy the others look out for her by testing him ,chatting with him etc

They can range anywhere from completely sincere  (and why not be compensated for your time while looking) to total pro daters .
The affiliate, nor the big agencies care either way who is generating the income. A plausible deniability business model that effectively shields them any liabilty

Also many have no idea that the main interface they log into is tied to far more agencies than they know. , A guy maybe talking to them thru hot Russian brides ,dream marriage , etc etc, but they only see the affiliates interface and the message or chat feauture. They likely havnt seen the other sites or profiles as it doesn't matter to the affiliate, just the revenue they get from the big guns.

Lots more layers to it,but the bulk is married or other non serious men having fun and wasting time.

Billy shouldn't throw too many stones since he just was one of those keyboard romeos himself.
His intent might be good , but at the end of the day just another correspondent that had no intention of following up.
:rofl:

[JayH]

in post above AJ ( Jumper) has it all correct .
Add---- any site name -- AnastasiaD,Hot Russian Brides,Russian Love Match,Jump4Love, and dozens more -- can all feed from agency that a girl may or may not know which site a guy is coming from -- basically-- for guys-- the sites are of the same ilk.
AJ-- does know what he is talking about-- guys like BB have next to none in the knowledge stakes from first hand exposure- Trenchcoat-- reads but does not connect the dots -- so anyone reading them please understand they are regurgitating others --  and often do not get wider picture.
BB talks of "agency" girls-- but in the process gets a lot confused with his one size fits all approach .
A little more to AJ post above --  my ex and her girlfriends would typically go out on Friday night to eat and dance --then after midnight Ukrainian time would head to the agency ( where the party continued !) to chat  etc online . They had sleeping set up there for those that could not last all night  and into the morning.So it was entertainment, a relief from everyday jobs -- and it bit of paid fun ! Yes--they covered for each other -answered chat and wrote letters etc for each other.
Now --in each of those girls case -- she was 100% interested in actually meeting a guy  --  and that has always been my overriding point. These girls ( & many many others I have met) wondered why  there were so few "real" guys -- and even less that would actually come to meet in real life.Even then -- from what I have heard and seen-- of the guys who do travel there is a high % of "strange" guys .
I have discussed this point with literally hundreds of girls  from all over Ukraine ( & a fair number in Russia)  and the same summary applies all over.

[JayH]

Many here do not understand that the agency girls think that talking to men on the computer is a job - a distasteful one at that.  Every once in awhile a guy comes along that fits their profile of who they would like to spend time with.

I do not view agency girls as without morals.  And upon finding a man who meets their criteria, whether directly or indirectly, they are certainly inclined to jump in the water.

Agree.
I would point out to all reading-- Jon has actually met quite a few in real life and had the experience first hand of talking about all this in a frank and open way.

BillyB  talks of "agency" girls in the most derogatory way -- and is based on his own very narrow real life exposure . Trenchcoat--repeats what he has read without comprehending.
It illustrates why this is not a simple topic--there is great variation.
Of note -- virtually every pretty girl in Ukraine will be approached by a photographer sooner or later .That photographer --may or may not have a connection to an agency -- but regardless -that can lead to those photographs becoming an agency profile -either with or without consent.
The contact with the agency can have a very soft start -- with a girl basically being quite innocent to it all.
So when I read comments like BB equating these girls to prostitutes it disgusts me . Those comments just illustrate his ignorance.

[BillyB]

Billy shouldn't throw too many stones since he just was one of those keyboard romeos himself.
His intent might be good , but at the end of the day just another correspondent that had no intention of following up.
:rofl:

We're all keyboard romeos to every girl we write to except those that we visit. For every girl I visited, ten thousand probably thought I was a keyboard romeo.

BillyB  talks of "agency" girls in the most derogatory way

Tell me one honorable thing about their job? Agency girls aren't as bad as hookers but they aren't as good as sincere responsible women who work real jobs.


Some of you guys think a prostitute or agency girl who made a living separating men from their money for 10 years can all of a sudden flip a switch and become the kind of girl you bring home to momma. Can you switch your jobs and become an expert in another field overnight? See how silly that thinking is?


This thread is educational. It goes to show you how many men will overlook bad behavior if a woman is beautiful. You guys can have those women. I'm just telling you there are plenty of other fish in the sea without questionable backgrounds. Challenge yourself to find a woman who lived an honorable life all her life, not just in the past few days because she determined you're her soul mate. Lucky you.


There are guys here that married agency girls and have a good marriage. The difference between them and RW_Recruiter's girl is those girls quit after being disgusted by what they saw. They refused to deceive men, even if those men are morally bankrupt. RW Recruiter's girl said she has no association with the agency and can't access her profile yet she still is available to receive money Western Union. I don't buy it that she's done with the agency.


JayH, what experience do you have with girls? Very little so putting me down doesn't flip a switch and make you an expert. You want to beat me? Show me some of the girls you roll with. I don't post photos of the girls I've dated but my family and friends say my wife is not the most beautiful woman I've dated. Her character makes her better than the other women. Try and make me jealous JayH.

[Trenchcoat]

BillyB's right its further down the line you have to be able to trust a woman, how could you possibly trust a woman that has made deceiving men her life's work. Just like showing a girl how wealthy you are your buggering yourself before you've even begun, you'll only know if she's decent enough until she's with you a long time and has proven herself worthy but with an agency girl she could take you for all its worth instead - not even a educated risk but a much greater risk than normal, a foolish one even. Odds are her attitude could change after second or third visit as she starts to tire of RW and fall back into old ways or she may hold out for big payout down the line.

Part of what I have learnt from recent experience is the necessity of getting the method right by not tripping myself up by making foolish mistakes such as letting on about wealth or going for a girl that mixes in the wrong circles such as agency sorts. I agree with Billy looking for a good girl is of paramount importance all other paths are just gambling with my time and money which is foolish in itself. 

[Boethius]

You have never lived in a destroyed country with no safety net. Those women have to eat, and support themselves and possibly a family.

It's easy, coming from a well organized society, to judge them and impose your morality. But you're going to a poor country to exploit the economic disparity for your own advantage. So how are you any more honest or decent?

[wallm]

You have never lived in a destroyed country with no safety net. Those women have to eat, and support themselves and possibly a family.

It's easy, coming from a well organized society, to judge them and impose your morality. But you're going to a poor country to exploit the economic disparity for your own advantage. So how are you any more honest or decent?

Brilliant!

So you are defending the scum that scam the gullible men? Exploiting? Oh, the drama queen! 

[Boethius]

You're not searching in France, or even Estonia, are you?

Who says every woman working for an agency is an exploiter?  And what about the men that feed that industry?

[BdHvA]

You have never lived in a destroyed country with no safety net. Those women have to eat, and support themselves and possibly a family.

It's easy, coming from a well organized society, to judge them and impose your morality. But you're going to a poor country to exploit the economic disparity for your own advantage. So how are you any more honest or decent?

+1 ~ well formulated

[mhr7]

You have never lived in a destroyed country with no safety net. Those women have to eat, and support themselves and possibly a family.

It's easy, coming from a well organized society, to judge them and impose your morality. But you're going to a poor country to exploit the economic disparity for your own advantage. So how are you any more honest or decent?

Bingo!

[msmob]

We're all keyboard romeos to every girl we write to except those that we visit. For every girl I visited, ten thousand probably thought I was a keyboard romeo.

Er, No, BillyB ... Please do not compare you idea of 'selling yourself' to mine...  Those ladies I wrote to - but did not visit - if they were emotionally stable - understood that writing / chatting was part of getting to know each other - to see if there was enough 'chemistry' to meet. 

Personally speaking, I have a low opinion of guys who BS about coming ...   I have on one occasion decided not to meet a lady at the last minute - having paid for her trip to meet me in Kyiv from SW Russia - she was 'mot pleased'  to say the least - but how she took my decision should have been clue enough to our unsuitability.

As AJ - so rightly put it ... the KB romeos on the paid for sites are a 'dream' to companies looking to make a pile from guys who like to fantasise

Those who write to ladies on free dating sites - also with no intention of ever taking it anywhere .... including for the purposes of the 'education of single guys'...well, they are saddoes in my eyes.. spoiling the chances of serious guys .

[rw_recruiter]

I'm a bit confused here....isn't BillyB the guy who went after a 17 year old? And now he's preaching about morals and saying girls like my Anya are "bad" women?

Billy, you realize than even in prison the "bad" men draw a line in the sand on that one, right?