Does a RW need to speak good English, I think not.

[PeeWee]

I think that the odds are on my side and i feel myself very lucky...

A interpreter ( Russian - Ukrainian - German - English ) have find me  ... She have read my post on antidate and here at RWD and find me interesting...

And now, i can say that a common language ( she is better that me with english  ) help a lot... It allow a win of time in the building of the relationship... Week-end chat ( with skype ), from midnight until 04-05 hours in the morning have allow us to know each other very good... in one year, i have know better my actual girlfriend that i have know my ex-wife during the 6 year together ( 1 year dating and 5 year married )...

Of course, language is only one parameter... if she was a Ukrainian bitch speaking english, i was not with her now... language have allow me to discover the value of my girlfriend in a short time...

The big majority of european have some base of english... specialy the younger people... only French people who are enough egocentric have a low level in foreign language...

Some older RW have language knowledge in French or/and German... These two language was teach in Russian school...

In some way, i find funny that American men speak about language skill from foreign women since in the big majority, American have a very low level, almost zero, in foreign language...

It is ok to speak about the language skill as the talk was not derogitory in nature. I agree that the one who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. Americans, by in large, are not incouraged to learn a second language. English is the language worldwide and I believe it is felt that by the American educational community that there is little need for we Americans to learn even English, muchless another language.

With that said, unless one majors in a language skill, little peewee for example, who is now becoming fluent in both Mandarin and Vietnamese because his mind is set on blending his computer science skills with a language that is now growing in importance to the US, then there is little motivation. Yet with the growing Mexican population here in America I notice more and more Spanish language both in our advertising and certainly now in business. I wonder if our educators my eventually lean toward requring that all American students learn Spanish as well. And then there is Ebonics...there may be no end to it.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

I agree Bruno, when I went to school back a million years ago unless you planned to go on to college there was no empasis on learning a language.  I think the way America is going they might want to think about making Spanish a requirement for everyone.   I took French for two years in High School and another in College.  If I knew how the world would change I am sure I would have done Spanish as the more useful second language. 

Thanks for the input on the Poll.  I will look over Brunos suggestion and try to reward the married/engaged part to include the total search time not just the go round with thier brides.

Without looking at my show schedule, I think the next trip to the west is one to Reno in Feburary PeeWee.   I do one in San Antonio next month but that is far from the west coast.

[Turboguy]

Perhaps I can add a catagory, I have been searching for 88 years.  That would be the 8 I missed in the last post plus another.  If I mark the post to have no ending date I can come back in 3/4 of a century and check that one.

[PeeWee]

Perhaps I can add a catagory, I have been searching for 88 years.  That would be the 8 I missed in the last post plus another.  If I mark the post to have no ending date I can come back in 3/4 of a century and check that one.

The ORielly Factor. Fair and balanced.

Peewee

[jb]

I think it's a poor polling topic.  It would add little to the knowlege base of the board.  Surely you can think of something more interesting to discuss than how long it takes to sort out your fantasies.

[Jet]

I will look over Bruno's suggestion and try to reward the married/engaged part to include the total search time not just the go round with their brides.

Well since "poll mania" is starting to set in, perhaps another:

From the time you first made the decision to fly abroad until today, how many different women have you taken on more than 2 dates (not counting any "interview" type agency meetings)

1 woman and still looking - I got plenty of time
1 woman and got lucky first try

2-3 women and still looking
2-3 women and now married

4-6 women and still looking
4-6 women and now married

7-10 women and still looking
7-10 women and now married

11-17 women and still looking
11-17 women and now married

18-25 women and still looking
18-25 women and now married

more then the population of Manhatten and really starting to wonder if she's even out there
more then the population of Manhatten but I always did like process of elimination when making tough decisions

[jb]

Jet,

You forgot:  How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

All this does nothing except spread soothing balm on the egos of a few men who would probably have trouble getting laid in a cathouse with a suitcase full of $20's.  Marriage to a RW is not for everybody, I'd have to say if you've made 5 or more trips and have nothing but a well lightened wallet and few battle scars to show for your efforts, then maybe you should consider moving on to greener pastures.

[Turboguy]

I think it's a poor polling topic.  It would add little to the knowlege base of the board.  Surely you can think of something more interesting to discuss than how long it takes to sort out your fantasies.

To me one of the postive aspects of it might be to give a newbie a realistic idea of how tough it can be.  That it is not always one trip or one romance tour and you have the love of your life. 

And by the way, everyone might also benefit if you point out where those greener pastures are jb.

[Jet]

All this does nothing except spread soothing balm on the egos of a few men who would probably have trouble getting laid in a cathouse with a suitcase full of $20's.

*shrugs* You're probably right, but it's Sunday morning, I'm bored and the wife and little guy don't return for a week and a half, so me and the cat are amusing ourselves 

[wiz]

Americans, by in large, are not incouraged to learn a second language. English is the language worldwide and I believe it is felt that by the American educational community that there is little need for we Americans to learn even English, muchless another language.

Peewee

Americans speak American and English the rest of the world but of course the American language originated from the English. Americans and English have no great problem communicating with eachother and the same applies to Italians and Spaniards because of the similarities in the vocablery. 

[PeeWee]

Jet,

You forgot:  How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

All this does nothing except spread soothing balm on the egos of a few men who would probably have trouble getting laid in a cathouse with a suitcase full of $20's.  Marriage to a RW is not for everybody, I'd have to say if you've made 5 or more trips and have nothing but a well lightened wallet and few battle scars to show for your efforts, then maybe you should consider moving on to greener pastures.

Scandinavian women, perhaps?

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Americans speak American and English the rest of the world but of course the American language originated from the English. Americans and English have no great problem communicating with eachother and the same applies to Italians and Spaniards because of the similarities in the vocablery. 

Funny you mention that. I have a couple of pals who are pilots with Aeroflot. Russian lads. I asked one, I knew the answer but the topic was cities and flying so I asked because one of the guys self taugh himself English, "How do you understand what the ATC guys are telling you when you fly into Bejing, Saigon, and North?" Korea?" And this is why having a common language is so important.

He told me, "English. I can pretty well understand the Chinaman, the Frenchman, the German...but it's you Goddamned Americans that I have a hard time understanding!" And for a commercial pilot to say that it is a bit scary to hear. Several years ago we did have an Aeroflot lad try to land his IL-62 on the freeway that parallels the runway at SEA. He did not succeed but a few pedestrians ended up ducking, and soiling themselves, before he realized that he was a wee bit off target. I blame that on communication.

Peewee

[catzenmouse]

I've been staying out of this pretty much since I got chastised by the newbie for trying to lighten up the tone a bit with a joke. 

 But reading through this makes me wonder how TG would be treated if he had married Luda and was posting about their trials of working through the adjustments involved or if he had married the next one he met no matter how great she was. This is looking more like a situation of "I don't like you so I will reject anything you say or think" than a discussion of opinions and experience.

 As far as meeting, dating, and trips to the FSU go TG has a great amount of experience to share here. It take a lot of guts to talk about things that have gone wrong or been mistakes. There aren't many members who are as open about this like TG is. In the end, if it takes a week or twenty years to find what you are looking for if it turns out well then it has been a successful adventure.

Ken

[Turboguy]

Thanks Ken,  By the way you have a great sense of humor so don't let one newbies comment stop you from posting. 

Thanks for your comments.  I think there is a lot of truth in them. 

[Son of Clyde]

Wiz,

I think Cockney is a different language. Much like Bawlmerese which is spoken in my city. A few examples of Bawlmerese: Foreign gin This is a bright red vehicle that farmen ride in when they go somewhere to extinguish a far. The thing you park your car beside is called a curve. When you step on something you tret on it. In the summer time we go downey oshun (to the beach). Yes I am from Bawlmer Merlin.

[PeeWee]

Wiz,

I think Cockney is a different language. Much like Bawlmerese which is spoken in my city. A few examples of Bawlmerese: Foreign gin This is a bright red vehicle that farmen ride in when they go somewhere to extinguish a far. The thing you park your car beside is called a curve. When you step on something you tret on it. In the summer time we go downey oshun (to the beach). Yes I am from Bawlmer Merlin.

Like them boys from Corn-tucky.  Prolly jus gonna sit racheer fer a spell or go on down by the crik.

Peewee

[Bruce]

Ken, there definitely is a silver lining to the cloud.  I am hopeful but becomming more doubtful with each "failed" trip. 

TG should know more about the agencies out there and which ones walk the walk etc.  TG, I think it would be really interesting if you listed all the agencies you used and places you have been to in your search along with providing why you like and or dislike each place / agency.    I know you are less down on the big two tour companies (I believe EC is now out of the tour business - but correct me if my info is dated on that one) than I am.  I would say if a guy these days is so afraid to go to the FSU alone, likes company and is rich enough to take a tour while meeting the majority of girls who have at best questionable motives ie. girls are just a show - then go on a tour.  Still, you have worked with alot of different groups and been to alot of different places.  You have a ton of experience...........which hopefully will lead to the right conclusions. 

I was thinking that you and Pee Wee should travel over together some time.   You guys have a great rapport and you could be double trouble.  In any event, a good listing with opinions will definitely be a great place for guys searching to view. 

[Turboguy]

Bruce, don't get discouraged.  One of these days you will make the right trip and find your silver lining.   That may be another place where to poll I talked about will help.  Someone like you who is not finding it as easy as you hoped.  Sometimes it is nice to know you are not alone.

I am really not much of an expert on Agency's.  I have never used them much.  Many other guys have a lot more experience with that topic.  I have been in Elena's' Models office in Kiev along with one other office.  I think it might be Majestic Ladies but I don't recall for certain.  I was actually there with a friend who used their services. 

I think the big two on tours now would be A Foreign Affair and Anastasia.  Yes, European Connections has dropped their tours.  I was on three of the EC tours.  The first went over so well that I gave up my search for and FSU woman for a year and a half.   That one was Kiev and Moscow and I met a 38 year old gal from Ukraine at the Moscow socials who seemed like she might end up being the one but just ended up being a scammer instead.  Actually I came out pretty good as far as the amount of money I lost on her.

Most of the early trips were before the interenet had much availability there and you relied on snail mail with a 4-6 week turn around time.   It was very hard to plan a trip, to get a visa or to even make a hotel reservation.  I went to Moscow several times, to Omsk, to Krasnodar, to Perm and to Yekaterinburg.  I also went to Kiev, and Krivoy Rog in Ukraine and to Vitibisk in Belarus.

The stories of what I found run the gauntlet.   The gal in Krasnodar was wacky.  She wrote beautiful letters using an interpreter.  I think the thoughts were the interpreters who was married.  Her favorite thing was aiming her car for a crowd of people, pushing the gas pedal to the floor and blowing her horn and wathcing the people jump for their lives.  The one in Krivoy Rog turned out to be a scammer.  It was, "now that I am your woman you would not want me running around in this ratty coat. Can I have $ 400.00 for a new one", etc.  One of the ones in Moscow had sent me a 15 year old photo.  Her photo was pretty but she was not.  I felt bad about a couple of things.  She had not eaten for a month and had dropped 24 pounds because she knew she was going to meet me.  We were at her apartment.  She wanted to offer me something and looked in her fridge and the only thing in there was a nearly empty bottle of ketsup.  She shared a kitchen and bath with two other apartments.  When we said good bye for the last time she asked me to give her a kiss and to be honest it took about all the willpower I had just to do that.  She was pretty bad looking.  There were some meetings that I had high hopes for that just went awry and we could not meet.  The one I always hoped for was Helen from Tver who I later met up with in San Francisco and who showed me there are girls like I hoped to meet and got me back into this.

There was one from Kiev who was totally nasty.  Another from Kiev that I look at as my biggest mistake.  I failed to follow up with her and she was a keeper.  At the time I thought the gal from Vitibisk was going to be the one and when I met her she spent her whole time yelling at everyone.  Her dad, her mother, me just  a little.  Actually her dad and I stayed friends for probably 5 years after that but I never thought I wanted to peruse someone with that temperament.

Back to the subject, I could not in good faith recommend one of the big agency tours.  I had a lot of fun.  Perhaps I would do one again but if I did it would just be because they were fun, not with the expectations of meeting anyone for a serious relationship.

I think a lot of the guys are having good luck going to some cities in Ukraine and hooking up with a local agency and just meeting gal after gal until they find one they like.  I think for a lot of people that works pretty well.  I have not tried it myself and don't plan to at this stage.

I think some of the smaller tours like Jack runs are pretty good.  That is my next thing.  I am heading for Ukraine on Sept 13th and doing 4 cities on Jacks tour with my son who is 36 and has terrible luck with women.  Really I am more hoping that my son has some luck than I am worrying about my own efforts on that trip.   Sometimes when you try least is when the best things happen so perhaps we will both have some luck. 

Mostly right now I am just using Elena's Models and FreePersonals to write gals and then doing a WMVM.   I have had enough bad luck with WOVO that I would not do it again.  To me, I never felt you could really get to know much about a gal doing the one hour visits when you have the agencies hook you up with gal after gal until you find one you like.  Many guys have good luck with it though.   I am currently trying to visit a gal for around 2 days with the thought that when I have a winner where we seem to have a lot of chemistry and are compatable I can go make a second trip and stay a much longer time.

I think the suggestions I would make for anyone right now would be to try and avoid the big cities, to not make a trip to meet just one girl, to try the agency thing in the smaller towns and to look through the agency posts here to see which agencies seem to have happy customers.  To avoid the big agency tours unless you want some hand holding for your first trip and to not give up no matter how frustrating it seems.

To your other comment about PeeWee.  I would be happy to hook up with PeeWee on any trip.  The same applies to some of my other friends as well.  I think in Peewees case he may have found his gal so it may not be too practical.  I have made some trips where friends were there looking at the same time and it does make the idle hours much more enjoyable.

[PeeWee]

I'm not traveling with Turbo...that would only serve to confirm to the gay beards...er, gray beards that we were in fact the "Gay Caballeros". I have had an idea to get PlaneCrazy on a trip over to Moscow so as to have the opportunity to fly a Mig or Su  on a quick spin around the skies of Moscow. Maybe Turbo would be intersested in flying backseat in a Russian Mig? If so then he can join us on that adventure.

"Unless you have slammed full burner to a MiG-25 out of Zhukovsky Air Base, Moscow and popped out at 72,000 feet pushing 2.5 Mach, then you’re not worthy.” ~direct quote from someone worthy.  You see... now this is something that would appeal to me. A double deal. A Russian babes and planes tour. Turbo! You game?

Peewee


Peewee

[Turboguy]

Can't be any worse than some of the commercial flights I have been on.  You mean just because I don't have a pilots liscence I don't get a shot at the controls too.

[PeeWee]

Can't be any worse than some of the commercial flights I have been on.  You mean just because I don't have a pilots liscence I don't get a shot at the controls too.

That's part of the deal, Turbo, you get to fly the plane too. You will be with a company test pilot. It's sounds fairly safe to me. Barf bags are included.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

Yes, but you have never flown with me as the pilot.  I have.  You might be surprised the ways I can find to crash a plane.  Ok, I have never crashed on, came close a few times.

[Durk]

     Ken:

           I really wasn't trying to chastise anyone. I have a great interest in learning as much as
I can. I think a lot of the guys fall flat on their a** because they try to use their seat of the pants
attitude. When a European person suggested this opportunity to me I was shocked. Pittsburgh in
general has a huge ethnic background. I have Russian friends here as well as clients from eastern
Europe. All of the board should be proud of the contributions posted here. The trip reports have
been awesome. Some of you guys need a good publisher. Thanks for the welcome. Please don't
take me to seriously at times that is part of my style (a good joke is one that makes you think) and
I was trying to have some fun along the way. Same goes for the rest of you guys in this thread.
          Now back to the question. I was asking my father about this question today. He was a
world war 2 vet. He talked to me about girls from Holland and also Czech. that spoke very little
or no English that he dated or escorted to summer dances. He tells me the girls were very receptive
regardless of the language barrier. He actually stayed with the one girls family in which the parents
spoke NO English. There was very little problem with communication even though there was a speech problem. He feels the lack of family,friends, and culture will impact the relationship much
more than the English issue and feels that communication will be damaged by a lack of concentration resulting in emotional issues from the above. Ken I would like to hear what your
wife has to say about her experience so far. We have not heard anything from the group of woman
on this topic and I think we should.

                                                                                                         Dave

[Turboguy]

It sounds like I am no longer the only Pittsburgh area guy here.   I agree about the etnic background of the Pittsburgh area but I do think it is way behind the times with a Russian Community.  There are some here but you have to look hard.

That was an interesting story about your Dad.  I enjoyed that.  I had mentioned in this thread or the other about the gal from Vitibisk who was nasty and also mentioned I stayed friends with her Dad for years.  Her Dad and I would sit and talk for hours sometimes.  He did not know a word of English and I did not then know a word of Russian but with handsignals and drawing photos we had no trouble communicating.  It was fun actually which is probably what your Dad thought too.

[catzenmouse]

Dave,

 Thanks, I actually took no offence from your post and was just (again) poking a little fun at the seriousness of the members.

 Elena is not overly impressed with America or Americans in general. She's met some good ones but does miss her culture and language a great deal. When we met she could understand me fairly well but was very hesitant to try to speak English as it had been years since she took it in school. She started lessons and I sent her some books and tapes to help out. She also had a lot of practice with our hour or two long phone calls so by the time she got here she had a good grasp of the basics. We have had our share of misunderstandings and my twisted sense of humor has taken/is taking/will always take some getting used to for her. She took a basic ESL class at a local church and then moved right into the advanced class at a local community college. She speaks much better than she thinks she does.

 She does post here occasionally so she may respond to this thread.

Ken

     Ken:

           I really wasn't trying to chastise anyone. I have a great interest in learning as much as
I can. I think a lot of the guys fall flat on their a** because they try to use their seat of the pants
attitude. When a European person suggested this opportunity to me I was shocked. Pittsburgh in
general has a huge ethnic background. I have Russian friends here as well as clients from eastern
Europe. All of the board should be proud of the contributions posted here. The trip reports have
been awesome. Some of you guys need a good publisher. Thanks for the welcome. Please don't
take me to seriously at times that is part of my style (a good joke is one that makes you think) and
I was trying to have some fun along the way. Same goes for the rest of you guys in this thread.
          Now back to the question. I was asking my father about this question today. He was a
world war 2 vet. He talked to me about girls from Holland and also Czech. that spoke very little
or no English that he dated or escorted to summer dances. He tells me the girls were very receptive
regardless of the language barrier. He actually stayed with the one girls family in which the parents
spoke NO English. There was very little problem with communication even though there was a speech problem. He feels the lack of family,friends, and culture will impact the relationship much
more than the English issue and feels that communication will be damaged by a lack of concentration resulting in emotional issues from the above. Ken I would like to hear what your
wife has to say about her experience so far. We have not heard anything from the group of woman
on this topic and I think we should.

                                                                                                         Dave