The Struggle For Ukraine

[John Gaunt]

Not even going to make the effort to deconstruct that nonsense.

Billy, you clearly believe the garbage you are spouting. Like any zealot, you are prepared to sacrifice for your beliefs, no matter how ludicrous they may be.

So be it.

Amen. Garbage says as garbage does.

[Patagonie]

A Russian reporter.

http://mobile.twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1504619176354320384

Very very interesting. I would say it even makes me wonder about my personal projects and my communication.

[BC]

Not even going to make the effort to deconstruct that nonsense.

Repeated many times before, Billy's post has already been thoroughly deconstructed.  All that remains is a bucket built of logical fallacies that hold no water.

[Boethius]

Very very interesting. I would say it even makes me wonder about my personal projects and my communication.

It seems older and ill educated individuals are the most likely to support Putin.

Here’s a piece on biolabs.

http://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/russia-ukraine-bioweapons-misinformation/

[Boethius]

Another interesting article, from a Russian military expert.

http://russiandefpolicy.com/2022/02/07/mass-fire-strike-on-ukraine/

[Boethius]

I have no clue if this is true or disinformation, but it’s an interesting, if rambling, read

http://m.facebook.com/vladimir.osechkin/posts/4811633942268327

Source where I encountered it.

http://mobile.twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500196510054637569

[Boethius]

This is the experience of a family fleeing Mariupol.

http://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1504579756221558792.html

[Bee Farmer]

The point was the world hasn't been on a gold or silver standards as a means of commerce for decades.
There will likely always be some substitute for that value, and even you brought up crypto based on it. Still a substitute  based on a trusted value

During that time  I've heard continually of the  demise of one.subsitute for another. And despite your comment on trust,
 It is exactly what dictates any substitutes value.

Why should we trust the dollar? You can't fully.
But in general
Maybe from.simply lack.of any viable more.trustworthy.substitute yet.after decades

Im.not saying a shift wont.happen

Im.saying the boy has been crying wolf for my lifetime, I suppose we are due the wolf  really being there.

I did NOT bring up crypto based on gold.  I brought up digital accounts.  For example, you would deposit an ounce of gold in an account, and then use a debit card that would allow you to spend a fraction of that gold.

If trust is what substitutes for money is based on, then why are we using any substitutes? 

Gold is a viable substitute for the US dollar, because gold is money.  The US dollar USED to be backed by gold, and it is riding on its reputation. (Politicians don't like gold because it is easier to get money for their projects by inflating the money supply, and you can't print gold out of thin air.)

Money has 5 mandatory attributes.  (Anything that lacks even one characteristic will fail.)

Consistent
Convenient
Durable
Divisable
Has intrinsic value

[Boethius]

A reporter’s view of the Russian advance so far

http://newlinesmag.com/first-person/putins-killing-machine-that-isnt-working/

[rwd123]

No, you are wrong.  When you INVADE a sovereign nation, and meet resistance immediately, your perspective is irrelevant.

When you threaten a nation with military action (Ukraine had such an official policy), seek to join a powerful military alliance, and express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons don't expect that there will be no consequences.

Why did they want to drop cluster bombs on Syria?

To achieve their political and military objectives. What political or military objectives would Russia gain by bombing Donetsk? The apartment bombings in 1999 supported political and military objectives. I fail to see how this in any way benefits the Russian government.

I would ask you, what would Ukraine gain by bombing people who support them?

People in Donetsk support Ukraine? WTF?

  You have zero proof Ukraine is targeting its own civilians.

I said disregard for civilians, not 'targeting'. But as you asked for proof:



I suppose you'll say this is fake and propaganda too. The virtuous, benevolent Ukrainian military would never do such a thing. 

Good luck with being a mercenary, cannon fodder: http://www.tiktok.com/@salceyy2/video/7075303241231224107

Even Mr Potato Head (Lukashenko) has stated the truth - either Kyiv signs a peace agreement or a surrender. I don't think you've figured that out yet because of your understandable hatred of the Russian government.

You keep sharing western commentary. It's biased as heck. The truth lies between what you're reading and what gets published in Russia.

[BC]

People in Donetsk support Ukraine? WTF?

Donetsk city and east, no personal experience.

Donetsk region, many do despite speaking Russian and of Russian heritage.  This is from personal experience.

[Bee Farmer]

When you threaten a nation with military action (Ukraine had such an official policy), seek to join a powerful military alliance, and express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons don't expect that there will be no consequences.

When did Ukraine threaten another nation with military action?

What official policy are you referring to?

Any country is allowed to join military alliances, and no outside country has ANY say in the matter.  NONE.  Furthermore, it would be inappropriate for any outside country to oppose it.

When did Ukraine express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons?  (After the invasion, they did say the Budapest memorandum was a mistake, because the signatories did not keep their word.)  Ukraine actually expressed a desire to not have nuclear weapons, as evidenced by their voluntarily giving up the nuclear weapons they inherited after the Soviet Union fell apart. 

[Nightwish]

When did Ukraine threaten another nation with military action?

What official policy are you referring to?

Any country is allowed to join military alliances, and no outside country has ANY say in the matter.  NONE.  Furthermore, it would be inappropriate for any outside country to oppose it.

When did Ukraine express the desire to obtain nuclear weapons?  (After the invasion, they did say the Budapest memorandum was a mistake, because the signatories did not keep their word.)  Ukraine actually expressed a desire to not have nuclear weapons, as evidenced by their voluntarily giving up the nuclear weapons they inherited after the Soviet Union fell apart.

  Arguing with a brainwashed Putintroll like rwd, oh good luck! 

[Chelseaboy]

Arguing with a brainwashed Putintroll like rwd, oh good luck!

You've also noticed what he is  then .

[Chelseaboy]

Hacker group "Anonymous " has declared war on Russia and has interrupted several Russian state TV broadcasts.


They are targeting Putin.

[Nightwish]

You've also noticed what he is  then .

uhh yeah, with white, blue and red colors in his eyes, humming the russian anthem in front of his keyboard. Throwing kisses to his portrait of Vladimir Vladimirovitj Putin on the wall.

I sincerely hope no-one is that blind not to see what he is.

[ML]

I did NOT bring up crypto based on gold.  I brought up digital accounts.  For example, you would deposit an ounce of gold in an account, and then use a debit card that would allow you to spend a fraction of that gold.

If trust is what substitutes for money is based on, then why are we using any substitutes? 

Gold is a viable substitute for the US dollar, because gold is money.  The US dollar USED to be backed by gold, and it is riding on its reputation. (Politicians don't like gold because it is easier to get money for their projects by inflating the money supply, and you can't print gold out of thin air.)

Money has 5 mandatory attributes.  (Anything that lacks even one characteristic will fail.)

Consistent
Convenient
Durable
Divisable
Has intrinsic value

Start a new thread on money/currency/gold.
There your misconceptions can be addressed.

[fathertime]

I did NOT bring up crypto based on gold.  I brought up digital accounts.  For example, you would deposit an ounce of gold in an account, and then use a debit card that would allow you to spend a fraction of that gold.

If trust is what substitutes for money is based on, then why are we using any substitutes? 

Gold is a viable substitute for the US dollar, because gold is money.  The US dollar USED to be backed by gold, and it is riding on its reputation. (Politicians don't like gold because it is easier to get money for their projects by inflating the money supply, and you can't print gold out of thin air.)

Money has 5 mandatory attributes.  (Anything that lacks even one characteristic will fail.)

Consistent
Convenient
Durable
Divisable
Has intrinsic value

I don't know what the answer is, but gold doesn't seem much different than anything else. 
I've enjoyed the benefits of the dollar to this point.  Nothing can last forever though; eventually other competing currencies will get more market share.   From what I've read that will devalue the dollar.   I can see how inflation is already doing that, so getting the inflation under control will be important, especially for the older folks and savers.  There is always a chance that in the grander scheme of things, older people and savers will be tossed under the bus, to make way for the newer generations who will be earning the inflated dollars at a higher clip.

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Our government is so corrupt and the media puts out so much propaganda that most people don't know we are in the Supreme Court for election fraud, the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court for election fraud, Wisconsin Congress is seriously talking decertifying the election and recalling their electors and 7 other states are talking about it too. Most of our judges and politicians have been compromised. I'm not sure they're going to take appropriate action. If we don't fix the problems in our country, we won't be capable of fixing Ukraine's problem, especially with a criminal government. I'm not worried about Ukraine being taken over because America has been taken over. We have a chance to correct this. If we don't, you will be witnessing the beginning of the decline of America and our future generations will suffer because we failed.

There are a sizable percentage of people that believe the US govt is fraudulent.  I believe Biden won fair and square.    All that said, I do see a decline in America.  I think it is the people themselves are in decline.  I guess it is just the a cycle of how societies evolve.  Other more hungry nations will outcompete us.   In addition to this, I don't believe the US is really interested in fixing Ukraine's problem.   If it were happening on our doorstep we would want to stop the turmoil and get back to business.   I imagine there are US strategists charting out a cost benefit analysis regarding Ukraine and they are probably considering competing factors that none of us have brought up or throught about here.  It would be done in a calculating manner emotion free. 

Fathertime!   

[BC]

FT,

IMO the cost-benefit analysis is only defined by the risks of supplying offensive vs defensive weapons.

[rwd123]

uhh yeah, with white, blue and red colors in his eyes, humming the russian anthem in front of his keyboard. Throwing kisses to his portrait of Vladimir Vladimirovitj Putin on the wall.

I sincerely hope no-one is that blind not to see what he is.

Huh?  When I have stated I support Russia's actions?

What I have said -

1. There are always multiple perspectives to any conflict. Resolving conflict requires taking on all perspectives, even if you disagree with them. I have previously received professional training in this area, here's a taste: http://www.dianemushohamilton.com/about-diane/

2. Ukrainian government and military do not value civilian lives. Plenty of evidence this is the case. They are not virtuous. They are in no way better than the Russian army with respect to civilians - and arguably worse.

3. Western narrative is BS. What happened to the "Ghost of Kyiv"? Was he shot down? There is propaganda on both sides but western media only present one side and have banned/blocked the other (in the EU and other places).

4. Russia will get what it wants or there will be nuclear/world war. This is subjective and not a presentation of my personal preference - but what is transpiring. Very disturbing flight patterns of certain aircraft in Russia in the past 24 hours indicating Russia may be preparing for a strike. I am seriously concerned about this possibility. Russia have nuclear systems on highest alert and have operationally deployed S-500 systems including in Moscow.

5. De-escalation should be prioritized. Sanctions hurt common people, not the elites. It has increased the cost of living (survival) for people all over the world. Food (and fertilizer) production and distribution in Ukraine and Russia is severely impacted. The reality is a hit to food production/distribution/prices will result in starvation/death/political turmoil in countries completely unrelated to the conflict. This is a serious global problem.

6. This is not 'good guys vs. bad guys'. Maybe it's my libertarian streak but when governments are involved there are, with very limited exceptions, absolutely no good guys. Power structures attract corrupted personalities who do not act virtuously. I mean, seriously, two weeks into the conflict Russia decides to drop a cluster bomb in downtown Donetsk? Seriously? I've never denied Russian troops have killed civilians because it is bound to happen in a conflict of this size and nature.

I get labeled a Putin stooge because I don't follow the herd? Think for yourself. At least Boe bothers to color her responses with different viewpoints rather than petty name calling.

The world is teetering on the brink of nuclear disaster. Not sure people have cottoned on to this yet.

[fathertime]

Here is a western Youtuber with a million subscribers.  He is telling a different story than what you read here.   Has a snippet from a western guy who it seems went to Ukraine to fight for Ukraine. 
There is definitely a strain of America that isn't buying into the current controlled narrative we get from our officials.   



Fathertime!   

[krimster2]

The first casualty of war is ALWAYS the truth…
and his obituary is spoken of every day on Russian TV (“Special Military Operation”)
as if he were a lately killed Russian General…

truth didn’t stop the 2nd Chechen war, when Putin ordered the FSB to bomb Russian apartments
most of the people who were killed in Grozny after that were ethnic Russians
just like most of the people killed in Mariupol now were Russian speakers…

we had to kill the Russians to save the Russians?  huh?

So, it’s not ABOUT PEOPLE THEN, it’s ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE…
Hmmmmm... Now Think.....
What could it be?


my prediction, the Russians will feel more "invoragted" when the weather improves but the muddy ground will still inhibit movement
Russians will try to block Odessa from the rest of Ukraine, and  maybe even cutting off water supply route with naval blockade of Odessa....
once they cut-off Odessa they will head north to link up with the forces surrounding Kiev
the goal is to surround, isolate and starve out kiev...
and when the central government collapses, so will the oblasts which are dependent on the central government for most of their money
and one-by-one, all the dominos begin to fall
till nothing and noone is left standing in Ukraine

the thing about people hiding in bunkers is that:

"neither do they sow and neither do they reap"

for as long as Putin can tolerate the pain
all he has to do is to close off Odesa and surround Kiev, and then just keep up the current intensity, but focused all there in Kiev
and within a few monthd they will give up because of rampant famine
it took the Prussians 4 months to starve out Paris:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(1870%E2%80%931871)

[fathertime]

According to CNN, the west is back to the dreaded 'arm twisting'.   of China with threats.   Biden is probably not stupid enough to go into a meeting threatening China, but if he did, I'd suspect China would laugh in his face figuratively.   

Threats of US Sanctions again, probably works with a lot of countries...but some will thumb their nose to threats.  Let's see how this all sets with China.   They have their own self-interests to consider which should be paramount to US interests.   

Biden uses call with Xi to lay out consequences for China if it supports Russia attack on Ukraine

Ahead of time, American officials declined to say what specific threats Biden might make to convince Xi to withhold support for Russia. There have been ongoing discussions within the administration about potential steps, including sanctions.

  http://www.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/joe-biden-xi-jinping-call/index.html   

Fathertime!   

[krimster2]

USA has flown reaper drones on the boder of Donbas
each reaper is capable of carrying 4 hellfire missiles, which is more lethal than a javelin

a fleet of these crossing the Polish border at night at tree top level
land at dawn at refueling centers in Ukraine and then take off with mixed teams of Ukrainian and remote American operators and hit russian supply lines and artillery
return and repeat again the next night...

somewhere between 2 weeks and 2 months from now, if Russia doesn't at least isolate Odesa and Kiev from the rest of Ukraine
then it has no choice other than to declare general military mobilization!!!
this will mean millions will be drafted!

maybe could start fresh Russian deployments in June
everything really depends on the weather now

The more that time goes on…
then the more weapons that can be provided to Ukraine…
not just boosting Javelin and Stinger numbers, but totally new kinds of weapons with low training requirements

like 50 cal BMG
Barrett 50 cal Sniper

Mk 19 40 mm grenade launchers
Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle

all of these weapons can be taught to someone in 1 week
and easy to smuggle thousands of them into Ukrainian training centers by truck and dispersed into combat zones

the west must also contend with the idea of a humanitarian airlift to stop the spread of famine in Ukraine
when the food supply/transport system starts to break down a few weeks from now