Will she really leave her country?

[Moonlight]

  what an interesting discussion...
We are in K1 process (Im Russian fiancee and my groom is an American) and sometimes I just cannot imagine giving up EVERYTHING what I have here, in Russia, and start living in absolutely unknow country, no friends, no relatives, different culture, mentality...
I truly wish my fiancee could live in RU for some time, but he cant 

[tbelknap]

what an interesting discussion...
We are in K1 process (Im Russian fiancee and my groom is an American) and sometimes I just cannot imagine giving up EVERYTHING what I have here, in Russia, and start living in absolutely unknow country, no friends, no relatives, different culture, mentality...
I truly wish my fiancee could live in RU for some time, but he cant 

Hello Moonlight.
Moonlight, what made you decide to move to another country away from your family and friends?  I am sure it has something to do with your fiance but did you seek out a foreign man?

[Bruno]

what an interesting discussion...
We are in K1 process (Im Russian fiancee and my groom is an American) and sometimes I just cannot imagine giving up EVERYTHING what I have here, in Russia, and start living in absolutely unknow country, no friends, no relatives, different culture, mentality...
I truly wish my fiancee could live in RU for some time, but he cant 

Everybody can if he really wish... but are you sure that you wish that your American fiancee live in RU...

I have know a similar discussion with my actual Ukrainian girlfriend... I have propose to live in Ukraine... after a long reflexion, she have refuse for some basic reason... If i go to Ukraine, time will be needed to learn the language, to find a work, to start a new life from zero... but she wish children in the next few year... with me living in Ukraine, several year will be needed to have a stable financial situation who will allow to build a family... She don't seek a rich man, she seek a man who can be responsible for a family, provide a minimum ( food on table, education, medical service, etc ... ) for her and future children.

If a RW was able to find so husband in FSU, she will not begin seek foreign man... Good man exist in FSU but mainly they are already married, and this very early in the life... women around 30 year old, never married are already old woman in the eyes of russian men... if she is divorced with child, few are ready to be responsible for  the offspring of a other man...

So, yes, a western man can choice to life in FSU if he really wish... but are you ready to accept the effect ?

Unknow country and no friend are not relevant... with time, you will know the new country and have new friend... Relative is a more complex problem and it is why these topic exist... Culture and mentality : why change, it is what make the charm of FSU women... adapt is maybe good but please don't become a western bitch... The rich FSU culture is a plus for your couple and if a men choose FSU lady, it is because he is able to appreciate the mentality.

Maybe it seem more easy to me since my own parents are from two different culture... and my grand-parents from other country... and i have spend almost the half of my life in other country that my birth country... JB have say that foreign marriage are not for everybody... it is not only true for men, it is true for women too...

[Turboguy]

Moonlight, I am sure moving away from everything you have known will be difficult.  I have read a lot of stories of women who have done exactly that.  I have met quite a few who have done it.  Mostly what I hear is the same.

It will not always be easy.  Particularly about three months after being here you might think it was a big mistake.  Once you get used to life here you will look on it as a very good move and you will be happy here.  Actually what I hear often is it is hard about the 90 day time.  Much better after that.  Once you go back to your country for your first visit you will realize better how much you like it here and will look upon your move as a very good thing.  I think when two people are in love, where they are is not important, being together is.  You will have a happy future.

[PeeWee]

what an interesting discussion...
We are in K1 process (Im Russian fiancee and my groom is an American) and sometimes I just cannot imagine giving up EVERYTHING what I have here, in Russia, and start living in absolutely unknow country, no friends, no relatives, different culture, mentality...
I truly wish my fiancee could live in RU for some time, but he cant 

Moonlight, some of us men here have had a like but not exact experience as you now face. Although we remained within the US we did experience living in a new and unknown environment, with no friends, or relatives...only occasionaly available to us by phone. The culture was different to be sure as was the mentality. For those of us how served our country in the US military we did experience may of those things. I can say that it is not easy but it is not life threating either.

Computer contact, telephone calls, and one friend who you call your fiancee. We talk here of the importance of her speaking our language. To have this ablility must somehow lessen the chance of feeling isolated. Remember, the world is small, you can return for a visit. We we were not allowed to return for visit while in the military until we were granted leave. We were faced with making new friends, adapting to somewhat hostile environment, as I would not call a DI or TI (Drill Instructor or Training Instructor) a warm person to get to know. I can empethize with you as a result.

You will make it and as I have read here from others who came before you that you will eventually come to know your new home, new friends, and new family.

Peewee

[ronin308]

I will qualify this by saying I have not been to Russia but in Ukraine not every family seems to be interested in taking care of it's old people.

From experience as well as comments by others the one of the  largest populations of beggars in Ukraine seem to be babushki with orphans composing the second group. 

Also how many of you have noticed a good portion of fruit and vegetable sellers on the street seem to be in their 60s or older?

I don't know why this is and maybe once they can't take care of themselves the family does step in but too me it seems odd that there are so many starving old ladies there.  I have yet to see the same thing in the US.

It is more common to see 3 generations under one roof there but if one digs they'll find that the apartment probably is grandmas so in some cases at least there is motivation beyond caring for a loved one. 

The biggest difference I have seen between the US and Ukraine as far as elder care is that in the US when the older people can't care for themselves they typically move into retirement or assisted living places which simply don't exist in Ukraine. 

I know for a fact it will be difficult for my fiance to leave her mom.  She has gotten better as we have traveled more (probably another plus of taking your time, you can spend time away from her family, many of these women haven't really done that very much) but she will still need to call quite frequently. 

[groovlstk]

This post is going to sound overly generalizing, but I find Elen's words to ring true. One of the major differences that I've discovered between Western and Russian cultures, in regards to family, is that Westerners are much more selfish. Now, before you jump down my throat or nod off at such a stereotypical comment, give me a chance to explain.

In the US, particularly during the 80s and 90s, pop psychology was all the rage and self-help gurus rose to prominence through books, TV, and other media. Almost all of these gurus preached a sort of justified selfishness which many Americans wholeheartedly embraced.

For instance: So, your brother's a drug addict? He's been in rehab four times now and just relapsed once again. You've helped him pick up the pieces each time, but it's starting to wear you down. You have your own family to care for, your own career. Self-help gurus and pop psychologists would advise you to let your brother sink or swim on his own, to draw a line in the sand because his addiction is affecting your life, too. You'd not only be totally justified in cutting him out of your life, you'd be doing the right thing for everyone involved. And if he ends up on a stone slab from an OD? Well, he has only himself to blame.

There seems to be a backlash against this genre (I dare not call it a philosophy), but at it's zenith there was the whole co-dependence fiasco. For example, a wife who tolerated and cared for her alcoholic husband so that he could keep his job and any semblance of a normal life was criticized for "enabling" his alcoholism. Does anyone else realize how ridiculous this sounds?

[Wayne]

You can find the entire constitution of Ukraine, translated into English, on the internet.  There is a law that adult children are responsible for the care and expenses of their retired parents.  If the parental rights of a person are taken away in a court action, the child is no longer responsible to care for that parent at a later age. 

There are many children in Ukraine waiting to be adopted.  Many unwanted children!  I wrote for many months to a woman in Simferopol, Crimea.  Her Mother ran an orfanage there.  Sometimes American couples adopt children from Ukraine or Russia.  I know a man in Krasnoyarsk, Siberia who arranges adoptions. 

Another problem about bringing a woman with child to America is if the ex-husband refuses to give permission for her to take the child.  If you are writing to a lady with child, you should find out about the child's father. 

Wanting to bring a parent to America is typical for many women. 

[Elen]

I will qualify this by saying I have not been to Russia but in Ukraine not every family seems to be interested in taking care of it's old people.

From experience as well as comments by others the one of the  largest populations of beggars in Ukraine seem to be babushki with orphans composing the second group. 

Also how many of you have noticed a good portion of fruit and vegetable sellers on the street seem to be in their 60s or older?

I don't know why this is and maybe once they can't take care of themselves the family does step in but too me it seems odd that there are so many starving old ladies there.  I have yet to see the same thing in the US.

It is more common to see 3 generations under one roof there but if one digs they'll find that the apartment probably is grandmas so in some cases at least there is motivation beyond caring for a loved one. 

The biggest difference I have seen between the US and Ukraine as far as elder care is that in the US when the older people can't care for themselves they typically move into retirement or assisted living places which simply don't exist in Ukraine. 

I know for a fact it will be difficult for my fiance to leave her mom.  She has gotten better as we have traveled more (probably another plus of taking your time, you can spend time away from her family, many of these women haven't really done that very much) but she will still need to call quite frequently. 

About working "babushka" - in majority cases they work ( and that street selling is the only one way for them to make money) for to help families which really face hard times now.
Also some of them could live on money of their children but they do want to have their own (many just want to have an ability to "spoil" grandchildren like they wish and without a "permission" from parents)

 About "starving" babushkas - they have no families,( and pensions in Russia now have such amount that without a help of family old people REALLY are  doomed to starving. ) , they are mothers of sons, they are mothers of that "american" kind's girls  who think everybody should have their own life  and old parent just have to be happy if their children have happy life

[tbelknap]

About "starving" babushkas - they have no families,( and pensions in Russia now have such amount that without a help of family old people REALLY are  doomed to starving. ) , they are mothers of sons, they are mothers of that "american" kind's girls  who think everybody should have their own life  and old parent just have to be happy if their children have happy life

So you are saying that there is no middle ground in Russia.  You either give up your life and take care of your parents or you live your life and don't take care of your parents.

[Moonlight]

So you are saying that there is no middle ground in Russia.  You either give up your life and take care of your parents or you live your life and don't take care of your parents.

Not true. Wise, really wise people in Russia make their parents live nearby, like the same apartment buildings, might be differents floors and help them any time they ever need. It all depends upon how much money a person make - if a salary is good, of course part of it goes to parents. No parent in RUssia would say to their children: You baby stay home and take care of me. 

[Turboguy]

I made the statement earlier in this thread that in a lot of countries, they look at their children as their "social security" program.  The kids are expected to care for their parents.  I see that in the philippines, in south America in many places.  The difference I see is that in the other places they have 6 to 8 kids to make sure their social security program will be there for them.

One of the good things about the FSU at the moment is that people are cheap.  I don't mean that demeaningly.  What I am saying is if the gal was in the USA and her mother gets sick for a very small amount you could have a staff of babushkas willing to watch over her day and night.   Try to find a live in nurse in the USA and if you are lucky enough to find one, in lots of places it might run you well over 100 thousand.  In a medium sized city in the FSU you could hire every babushka in town for that.  I am not saying money can buy everything but it can buy care and the gal can go back for a long visit if she needs to.